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Author Topic: Koutny cookup  (Read 38002 times)
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BG
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« on: July 06, 2009, 06:53:02 PM »

I would like to see if there interest in a Koutny design cookup. The idea is to get us all building a Koutny design to the plan specs (lots of stringers, sliced ribs etc.). The reason for the "to spec" requirement is that doing something in a different/new way is liable to be a healthy learning process for most of us. I, like most of you, tend to follow the typical north American approach pioneered by folks like Earl Stahl, but I have always been inspired and intrigued by the Czech approach. This cookup aims to encourage us to produce a Czech style model from a plan by one of the pioneers of the Czech approach.

As an added incentive I will supply the plan (I have copies of almost all of Koutny's plans many of which include "liner notes") but only if the participant commits to starting and documenting the build within the cookup time slot.

Lastly, we will have the added advantage of being able to ask the master himself via email if any real snags arise.

Bernard
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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2009, 07:47:22 PM »

I have commited to many cookups and have not completed as many as I would like - this makes me reluctant to 'sign up' for any more.

However!, we are talking Koutny here, so I cannot resist!

The two models at the top of the 'Koutny heap' for a long time for me have been the Zep Lindau CS.1 and the Sablatnig.
I am (still!) building the Midkiff version of the Zep. I was about to start building the Sablatnig when Richard Granger appeared with a superb example at an indoor meeting. There is limited documentation for the Sablatnig that took away some of the appeal of building it as a scale model for competition - this cookup would give more than enough 'reason' to build it.

Count me in!

Russ
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BG
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« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2009, 12:05:05 AM »

Nice to have you on board Russ....Since the Sabatling was published in Aeromodeller I assume you have it? Hopefully a few others join the fun.

B
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2009, 02:27:36 AM »

Hi Bernard

Like most folks I have a number of stalled projects, but have long been an admirer of the 'Czech' approach Smiley

I've got a super kit of the Sablatnig sitting on the shelf... if Russ is in with that I'd better see what else I fancy, let's face it there are some lovely designs (I've plans for a few that have appeared in mags over the years- Zlin, Martinside, Macchi (floatplane!), Arsenal, Messerschmidt) Undecided
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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2009, 05:13:00 AM »

Yes Bernard, I have got the Aeromodeller plan.

DaddyO,
I didn't know that the Sablatnig had been kitted - who was it kitted by?
The more Sablatnigs the better I would say - please don't let my choice affect yours.
Dave at the Nottingham indoor meetings made a nice version of the Macchi floatplane - surprisingly light too.
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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2009, 05:32:00 AM »

Hi Russ

I got my kit from Flitehook last Christmas as a birthday prezzy to myself rather than fritter away money that I'd been given. It's laser cut and beautifully produced by the same folks that do the butterfly and bulldog indoor models (Igara cost about £18 which is great value for money IMO) Grin

I've put off starting it because it's a little too big for indoor, but looks a bit vulnerable without a field of long grass outdoors... Undecided

(I have been playing with the computer to see if I can print the camoflage finish - don't fancy a paint finish. I think the structure of these Czech models is so beautiful it needs seeing...)
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« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2009, 08:30:44 AM »

This sounds like a good "kick" for me to build the G.55 plan that I pestered from a member two years ago (could I scrounge a few more?). Count me in.

Pete
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« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2009, 09:11:55 AM »

Hmmm it is kinda telling that so far only the Euro modellers have shown interest in this cookup Undecided. If there are FACers out there who are syaing to themselves "I would but the undecambered airfoils are against FAC rules etc..." have no fear...this is an easy mod that I have no problem allowing, plus there are several good Koutny plans that have no undercamber or where the undercamber is scale (WW1 types).

Russ, Daddyo, and Pit, welcome to the Koutny cookup....we are gonna have fun producing out own versions of those lovely aeromodeller features that we have all admired for so long.

Pit I have no problem sending you some scans, the only reason I wanna limit this somewhat is that I don't have a lot of time and I can't spend my days scanning plans for people (even though I would be more than happy to do this Roll Eyes). I would suggest thinking up a list of "must builds" from the Woodhouse list of Czech plans (which is fairly complete) http://www.freeflightsupplies.co.uk/. I have most of them but not all so make the list and I will let you know which I have.

B
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« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2009, 10:46:55 AM »

Hmmm it is kinda telling that so far only the Euro modellers have shown interest in this cookup Undecided. If there are FACers out there who are syaing to themselves "I would but the undecambered airfoils are against FAC rules etc..." have no fear...this is an easy mod that I have no problem allowing, plus there are several good Koutny plans that have no undercamber or where the undercamber is scale (WW1 types).

Russ, Daddyo, and Pit, welcome to the Koutny cookup....we are gonna have fun producing out own versions of those lovely aeromodeller features that we have all admired for so long.

Pit I have no problem sending you some scans, the only reason I wanna limit this somewhat is that I don't have a lot of time and I can't spend my days scanning plans for people (even though I would be more than happy to do this Roll Eyes). I would suggest thinking up a list of "must builds" from the Woodhouse list of Czech plans (which is fairly complete) http://www.freeflightsupplies.co.uk/. I have most of them but not all so make the list and I will let you know which I have.

B
Gotcha! Thanks, I'll PM you within the next day or two. This may be another prospect for Openscale next year.

Pete
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« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2009, 11:19:49 AM »

Hi BG
There is another factor to consider. The FAC Non-Nats at Geneseo are quickly approaching and this may be consuming many FAC'ers time to prepare. It might just be a timing issue? Maybe on the other side of the contest you'll get more participants. I hope so.

I for one, like the Koutny designs and will watch the builds since the current line up is tops. Russ never disappoints!

I like how they use a scale rather than a "nut" classification. As for me, I'm knee deep in getting ready. Afterwards, I'm going to build a Mooney (Walt)

Have fun
Kevin
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« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2009, 01:47:51 PM »

On the G.55 plan, I assume the the stringers are 1mm sq. I could not find a reference for them. There are two plans at the moment (both twins!) that I'm particularly interested in: The TUPOLEV ANT 63 and the MiG DES (GOBS of wing area and good sized nacelles).

The plan for the Fiat is spliced together so I can scrutinize it (read: figure it out). Construction uses predominantly 1mm balsa with a sprinkling of 1.5 and 2mm - should be fun.

My interest in the twins has been sparked by the number of multi-engined subjects being built (and flown) at the moment. Figure it's time to get my feet wet Roll Eyes.

Pete
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« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2009, 01:53:43 PM »

The Mig DIS looks a beaut Pit... when it comes to twins I keep looking at the Arado AR 240 which has nice long engine pods that extend forward...  Cheesy
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« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2009, 02:15:15 PM »

The Mig DIS looks a beaut Pit... when it comes to twins I keep looking at the Arado AR 240 which has nice long engine pods that extend forward...  Cheesy
Right ON! That thing is almost ALL wing and I don't think I'll have to enlarge the tail surfaces (unless they've been enlarged on the plan). Both of the planes seem to have a copious amount of area.

I've previously shied away from building a rubber powered twin cause I didn't have enough experience and wouldn't know what to do.

Pete
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« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2009, 03:49:08 PM »

Moony is right of course, I guess we will see if interest on this side of the pond peaks after the Non-nats. Pit the DIS is a great calm weather flyer but Lubos says that you need carefully selected "strong rubber" to optimize performance. The Arado is known to be a good one but there are several lesser known Koutny twins that are also excellent flyers if built light (ME110, Weklin, Breguet and some others).

On the stringers...this is interesting: they are tapered! Usually tapered from ~1mm square at the front to .8 square at the tail. The wood should be medium weight and stiff. You start by tapering a nice stiff straight sheet of 1/16th or 1/20th and then stripping the tapered sheet into 1 mm strips. The strips are attached to the fuzz with the tapered sides perpendicular to the former edge so that this side can be tapered by sanding after the fuzz is assembled. Another interesting thing to note is the nose sheeting. The typical technique is to figure out the circumference of the nose former and then divide that number into the number of balsa strips required to sheet the nose. Now using the circumpherance of the next two formers you can figure the width of the sheeting required at these stations and then draw up the shape of each sheet section. The Czech usualy take this and attach the fuselage stringers to the sheet sections before attaching the whole thing to the fuzz. You can see this illustrated on several of his plans.

B
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« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2009, 04:34:42 PM »

Add the 110 to the list Cheesy!

I was wondering whether G. 55 had a sheeted front as the first indication of stringers was at former #7 (at wing LE). The thingies are so close together that it would almost appear to be FULLY sheeted (I know it's not) - that's what makes the Czech models appear so realistic. The tapering stringers I had read about in an article about one of Lubo's models some time back, but had forgotten (thanks). There's NO big rush for those plans (yesterday would be fine Roll Eyes) as I'll build the G. 55 first Undecided.

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« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2009, 04:58:47 PM »

Hi Bernard,

I'm interested in joining this CU, but can't start building until Sept or so. Also gotta find a plan.

Don
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« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2009, 05:16:03 PM »

Hi again guys....here is a detail on the stringers from the Ki 61 plan.

Pit I have signed up for the G55...I assume that you have the plan?

I am not sure what I am gonna do...the Reggiane Re 2005 Sagittario looks good to me and Lubos gushes about the flight characteristics of this model. However I do want to do a twin sometime so I am looking at these as well. Alsternatively, the Ki 64 contraprop looks good as well.

B
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« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2009, 08:01:36 PM »

I'm interested but hesitate to join a cookup because I want to finish a couple of other projects first. But maybe I'll jump in anyway. I'd like to build one of the 1/20 scale models. The KI-61 looks like a good one.
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« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2009, 08:34:36 PM »

I'm interested too, just not so sure about when I could start. Or finish, my building room is still off limits for another month and the kitchen table is kinda wobbly. I've often looked at the plans list mentioned and come ever so close to ordering a few so maybe now's the time. The Fairey Swordfish and Firefly are two favorites, and the Miles Messenger has been on the "wanna do" list for at least a year. I'm assuming these are Koutny plans.

Count me in I guess, just don't expect much activity right away.

Doug
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« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2009, 10:25:23 PM »

Bernard,

I just notice the Canadian flag next to your posts. I thought you were in Germany. Did you move or something?

Dave
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« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2009, 11:05:21 PM »

Yes. I am living in Calgary now.

B
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« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2009, 02:56:31 AM »

i will sound silly here but I do not know of any of his plans. I have heard of his name but Koutnoy plans I do not have. WHat sort of models did he do? I would like to join in the CU if I can find a nice Koutnoy subject.

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Matthew
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« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2009, 03:52:31 AM »

Seem to be mainly subjects from the two world wars Matthew (a pity coz the interwar period is my real favourite).
I was looking a a plan for the Arsenal VG39 (free in Model Flyer Aug 02) which seems a great subject; easyish build, nice proportions for a rubber model and sleek lookin'... it's just weeeeell... very... French Wink Undecided
Nice complex camouflage on this one which my be fun to have a go at...

I'd really like to have a go at the Kawasaki KI 84 (which is a personal favourite) or the Lavochin La5 (seen a fab scheme for this one...) Smiley

Bill Henn used a couple of Koutny plans as a base for two of his designs. The Spitfire and the Bf 109H (which is the long span variant). He changed the wing sections to his favourite Neelmeyer and enlarged by 120% to make them a bit more his cup of tea
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« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2009, 04:20:03 AM »

I've been following this thread very closely as I've been an admirer of the Czech modelling scene for many years now, and I'm finding it impossible to resist joining in!
The model I would most like to build is the Zlin XIII. This is not a Koutny design, but I would expect it to follow the Koutny style. Do you have this plan Bernard?

Bill.
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« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2009, 04:50:55 AM »

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Seem to be mainly subjects from the two world wars Matthew.


What first world war planes did he design?

regards
Matthew
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