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Author Topic: Guillows Cessna 150 -Build-  (Read 2115 times)
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scigs30
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« on: July 24, 2009, 03:01:45 PM »

Here is my next Guillows build. All the wood has been replaced but the structure remains the same except I added a functioning nose block. I covered with Esaki and 50/50 Elmers Water and will apply dope 50/50. The picture frame is used to attach my sheet of tissue to pre shrink and prevents warpage. To avoid wrinkles I apply the tissue to the top wing by just letting lay down. You can see from the picture how smooth the tissue is before applying the glue. I applied the glue and let the tissue rest on the structure and press the tissue into the wood. I shrink with alcohol and pin the structure to the building board, nothing fancy. I also add my washout in both wings at this point. The fuselage is covered in many sections to prevent wrinkles. To speed up the process I just cut each section into rectangular shape. Then I carefully apply the glue to the stringers and bend the tissue over to create a crease where I want to trim it. This gives me a smooth transition. Next step is to apply 2 coats of dope. Should be able to keep the weight below 30 grams.
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scigs30
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« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2009, 03:03:07 PM »

More pictures
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scigs30
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« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2009, 03:04:36 PM »

More
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thymekiller
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« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2009, 08:28:41 PM »

Thanks for posting that. I always enjoy watching your builds. I am now a convert to white glue. {mostly}

I have had my eye on that plane for awhile. Will have one some day.

Thanks for the pics.

thymekiller
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scigs30
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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2009, 11:13:33 PM »

I applied 2 coats of 50/50 Dope/Thinner and put everything together. The final weight is 31 grams minus rubber. The first glide was awesome and will fly her tomorrow. Sorry about the black smudge, we took the camera in this afternoon for repair.
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scigs30
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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2009, 11:14:20 PM »

Couple of more pictures.
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craig h
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2009, 01:02:01 PM »

 Thank You for sharing all the info and building with us! We can tell you are a pro.. for you made it look so easy...that's what pro's do...makes things look easy. Great Job!
 My guestion is ...how do you adjust a fixed stab for the correct trim (correct amount of trim shims) before gluing the stab in place?

Hope to see more of you building

Craig
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scigs30
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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2009, 02:51:09 PM »

Craig..... I never adjust the stab as long as it is straight. I make sure the incidence between the wing and stab is around 0 to 3 degrees when I am building. I have a simple way of trimming. I first use the 2/3 wing rule for CG and balance with clay if needed. I then give her a test glide with everything except the rubber. I add more clay if needed. Then during flight everything is adjusted with down thrust on the nose block. For turning I glue a piece of balsa under the left wing so the plane will fly in big circles. The only time I can see adjusting the stab or rudder is if there is a warp somewhere. This may not be the best way to trim but it does work for me. Also I increased the dihedral and added almost a 1/4 inch of washout in both wings.
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thymekiller
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« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2009, 12:06:09 AM »

 Please forgive my lack of knowledge, Gotta' ask:

Wash out is built into the t.e.[ ? ] , Do you build the washout over the whole lenght of the te or just part of it?

thymekiller
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Art356A
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« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2009, 10:25:55 AM »

"For turning I glue a piece of balsa under the left wing so the plane will fly in big circles."

Can you elaborate on that? Is it a Gurney flap under the TE, or a shim at the root? Does that make it circle left or right?

Art.
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My arms are so weak, it's like that pushup I did last year was a total waste.
scigs30
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« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2009, 02:01:37 PM »

I took the Cessna out today across the street to a small park and gave it a test flight. I use 3/16 rubber and Peck Lube, gave it a few winds and let her go. She flew great but needed a little down thrush. This is the importance of building a nose block with these Guillows kits. You can see from my picture it only requires a little shim of balsa for the down thrust. The second flight was perfect and then I put her away. The park is real small and full of trees so I didn't want to wind her up too much. I hope tomorrow I can drive a little further and fly a few of my planes. I took some pictures of the nose block and down thrust. I also took some picture of the tissue opening I have next to the aluminium peg. This opening assists me with rubber issues if they arise. I posted pictures of the washout. I do this when I am shrinking the tissue. I know some people build washout into the wing, I just keep it simple and add it when shrinking the tissue. You can see from the picture I just add a shim of balsa under the TE tip. The turning tab as explained to me years ago was originally used for indoor flying. Since the day I started flying, everyone I used to fly with would glue a balsa or Acetate tab under the left TE wing tip. This would give the plane an nice left turn. If the plane wants to turn to the right, then you should be looking for warps, or crooked construction somewhere along the way. This is the a simple way to fly a freeflight, may not be the best but it works for me. If the pictures look fuzzy when you click on them, just click the square next to the X.
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scigs30
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« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2009, 08:32:29 PM »

Well I have my flight plan ready and will fly my Guillows kits tomorrow, with one Comet Piper. All the WWII birds have been flown before so this will be a second and third time for some. The WWII birds are made with Guillows wood and no lightning what so ever. The Hellcat is a Guillows design but completely modified. I used quality balsa and redesigned the formers, wing and tail surfaces so they are lighter. The Wildcat weighs in at 17 grams and that includes the prop and clay. The rest of the Guillows WWII birds are coming in at 25-30 grams. I will post pictures of the flights tomorrow.
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Duco Guru
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« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2009, 08:54:26 AM »

The turning tab as explained to me years ago was originally used for indoor flying. Since the day I started flying, everyone I used to fly with would glue a balsa or Acetate tab under the left TE wing tip. This would give the plane a nice left turn.

Maybe I am missing something here. IMO, a tab UNDER the left wing tip will cause the model to turn RIGHT. Please explain the "magic tab."

Bob
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scigs30
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« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2009, 09:38:07 AM »

The tab will cause the plane to turn left because of the drag it produces, basically a drag flap. What does happen is the rear of the plane will yaw slightly to the right, but this is not a big deal. Even though, a few diehards will still add a little left rudder to counter this yaw. With most plastic props out there, most planes want to turn left. All the tab is doing is tightening up that turn. This left turn was used primarily indoors to keep the plane from shooting straight up into the ceiling. It would give the plane a nice tight left circle and would increase the flight time. The folks I used to fly with also used the tab outside for a smoother flight. I wish I could explain it better but this is pretty much all I know. Also this is old information from the early 80's and I am sure a lot has changed since then. Hope this helps.
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« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2009, 10:20:58 AM »

Scigs:

The classic indoor trim is left rudder and washin on the left wing. Torque and left rudder will make the model turn left, washin will prevent the model from spiraling in to the left. Washin (think tab UNDER the left wing) without any other factors will cause a model to turn RIGHT.

A high wing airplane , like the Cessna 150, will normally climb at a steeper angle if flown to the right. A different (and possibly better) trim alternative is to washOUT both wings for outdoor flying.

Bob
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scigs30
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« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2009, 12:01:54 PM »

Like I was saying there are many different ways to trim planes from what I have seen over the years. I still do it this way because it works for me. Trust me I am not smart enough to make this stuff up. I learned these techniques from the flyers at Scale Staffel, this is what Walt Mooney and Bill Hannan used to do. I think Bill Hannan talks about the tab in one of his books. I know people who didn't like the tab because of aesthetic reasons, but that does not bother me. Here are some of my pictures from this mornings flight. I did not get to fly all my planes since I got kicked off the soccer field. Also I add washout to both wing tips, I have never tried wash-in. I think I will just stay with my old way of flying since it took me so long to figure that out. I really don't have the time for anything new at this point. As you can see in the pictures all my planes are flying to the left because of the tab. The Cessna flew for over a minute with 3/16 rubber. It was a nice level flight. Who says Guillows kits don't fly? Huh
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scigs30
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« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2009, 12:02:58 PM »

Here are some more. I will post the other planes in the " Your Birds In Flight Forums"
"
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thymekiller
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« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2009, 10:44:33 PM »

Nothing wrong with that flight. Thanks for sharing the pics. I really like the cessna. Gotta have one now. I like Guillows planes because of many reasons. One, they are available locally, from 3 different stores. Also, they are cheap. I have gotten to where I just buy the plans and plastic. Soon, I hope to not need their plastic.
Learning, learning, learning.

Also, what kind of camera do you use. Your pics are much better than my digital.

thymekiller
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scigs30
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« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2009, 11:05:16 PM »

It is a Nikon D40, it is a great camera but it is in the shop today for that black dot. My wife took the pictures. Guillows kits are fun but they won't win any contests, but that is ok by me. I agree with you , just buy the plastic and plans. If you have the patience, nothing beats a hollowed out wood cowl. For me it is just easier to use the plastic cowl. You need the weight in the front so I build the internal box and spray the plastic, to date I have never had one fail. I have built my share of wood cowls, and I use 1/4 wood laminated then shape to the plans.
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