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Author Topic: Guillows Flyers  (Read 2315 times)
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Widdog
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« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2010, 05:18:15 AM »

I like the Guillows Kits. Yes they are heavy. However, Back in the day they could be built in three different configurations. U control Line. Free Flight Rubber or FF Cox. With the Cox Pee Wee 0.10 on a 500 series the fear was that the model would fly away with the relatively expensive engine. I still have my Cox Pee Wee 0.10 packed up somewhere. With the Nitro engine the Kits where lite weight. They had to be sturdy to handle the vibration of the Cox engine. Also they had to be built tough to handle the impact of landing/crashing. The more colored dope one used the more fuel proof it was.

Now- A -Days why go through all that ? Fighter Ace, Flight Simulators etc. Anyway the challenge now is to get Guillows Kits to fly on rubber power. Nobody said it was going to be easy.
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flyright
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« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2010, 02:23:43 PM »

You sound just like a Bob I flew with here in Florida....hummmmmmm

Andy
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Widdog
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« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2010, 06:15:07 PM »

Hi, my name is Keith. I remember as a kid I got a 900 series kit. Wow the wood was really bad. However a couple of months ago (When I got back in modeling I wanted to try Rubber Power/micro RC) Anyway I lost interest in the RC but I was very happy with the Newer version of the 900 Kit. The wood was much better and it came with water slide decals. Anyway I have been studying Sicgs 30’s work. I have copied his nose block on the Avenger 507 series. Wow I’m now hocked on Rubber Power. Anyway I started a 904 series kit Skyraider. I’m going to put a Scig’s 30 Nose Block in her. I’ll let you know how she flies . Anyway I guess my point if I have one is that the 900 series kits are designed for Rubber Power.
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Mooney
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« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2010, 08:58:38 PM »

I've seen Scigs work. Not a bad guy to copy. What's his noseblock method?
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Widdog
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« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2010, 04:26:23 AM »

Well I learned quite a bit from reading Scigs 30’s posts.
1. Guillows Kits built with wood from Kit can fly.
2. Apparently Guillows Kits built by plans instruction/design can fly.
3. The Guillows Kits always finish with tail being to heavy to balance. The nose block will add weight but it does have usefulness. Unlike the clay.
4 Scigs 30’s block is much better but I put a picture of mine to give general idea what I’m talking about.
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Mooney
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« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2010, 08:05:14 AM »

I found this method interesting. A creative way to make a sturdy front end while still using the plastic cowl. I found this on the Yahoo Guillow's group.

To give credit, I found this in "Cross Hangar's folder"
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Widdog
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« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2010, 09:45:18 AM »

Hi Mooney… Nice model and picture. I posted the picture of Scigs 30’s model that I copied the nose block from. Unfortunately for me I did not find his building notes till I was finished. Scigs 30’s notes mention not to preeminently cement plastic cowl. Also I believe he suggested to trim without the propeller but add exact amount of clay for the propeller instead.

I like this site because I read that posts stay for only 30 days.
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Ratz
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« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2010, 10:30:38 AM »

I like this site because I read that posts stay for only 30 days.

Post in the "New Members" area last only 30 days. Pretty much everything else stays permanently. I hope this doesn't mean you'll stop liking the site. Cheesy
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« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2010, 06:53:01 PM »

Hi Ratz I really like this site so I’m going to stick around for quite sometime.

I live in West Virginia. I don’t know anyone else in town that has an interest in Rubber Powered models. So "You All" are the only Rubber Powered friends I got. I would like to try and get the local National Guard Armory to allow my flying group. (One member Myself) to use the Armory building for indoor model flying. I guess it wouldn’t hurt to ask. Anyway I would like to have three good fliers to demonstrate. Maybe I can even start a real Flying Club in town. I would welcome any thoughts on this. I never even done indoor flying so I would need some help I’m sure.
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Sundance12
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« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2010, 10:57:21 PM »

Hi Widdog

You have ended up in the right place, many of these forum members will become your model builders support group. There is plenty of expertise among our members to help you get a local group together for indoor flying session. Many have done this in their locations. The NG Armory sounds like a great place, I hope you can get that location for some flying sessions. The Guillows Kits are a good place to start and plenty of help is here to make your models better.

Thanks

Sundance12
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« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2010, 03:25:11 AM »

I received a Guillows 400 series P40 Warhawk as a birthday present and my daughter wanted me to build it to fly Shocked. Now that's a challenge! A 500 series would have been much cheaper and probably easier to build to fly, but oh well... Kit wood is heavy as expected, averaging 14lb/cuft with great variation from sheet to sheet. Stripwood is over 20lb Shocked. If built by the plans with the kit wood as is, I estimated an AUW around 125g. Making some changes (and omissions) I'm hoping to finish it around 70-75g AUW for a 0.6 g/sq in wing loading to be a reasonable flyer. This is what I'm doing:

  • Use #7-8 stripwood for the stringers and spars
  • Sand the sheets down. Sanding enough to remove the printed ink on one side and to somewhat loosen the die cut parts on the other saves about 25% of sheetwood weight.
  • Scallop the keels, trailing edges of the wing, and LE/TE of the tail surfaces. I made a crude jig to use with my Dremel so that I could scallop in a repeatable way.
  • Skip some of the ribs. I skipped every other one of the outer ribs.
  • Model with LG in up position.
  • Replace the prop assembly with Peck's gray 9" prop, clipped down to 8". I'm not sure if this will save any weight but I'm hoping it will be a better powertrain.

The plastic parts -in particular the canopy- add a lot of weight, but with my abilities I can't do much about them. I'm now thinking about the nose block. My initial thought was to strengthen the plastic cowling and build the nose block on it. The setup in the previous posts also looks appealing, I may end up doing something similar.

I'll cover with the kit tissue. I wonder if this is a bad idea? Any other comments, suggestions are welcome and most appreciated.

-- Ates
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dputt7
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« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2010, 08:19:02 AM »

HI Ates

Nice work, what are your orange pins?

Dave
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« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2010, 08:26:35 AM »

H'mmm. They look like Matty pins.
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atesus
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« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2010, 10:09:22 AM »

Thanks Dave. The orange pins are 000 insect pins from A2Zcorp, CA glued on 3/32" hard balsa sticks and colored with a neon hiliter Cheesy.

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Warhawk
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« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2010, 10:33:45 AM »

I'm currently building a Guillow's (using plan only) Fairchild 24. I'm using my own wood, and I'm making modifications as I go, such as using Prof. Fate's method of using 1/8" wide stock to make the outlines and using Earl Stahl's method of "cap strips" on the tail pieces to avoid warping. Doing both of these yields a vertical fin that's about 1/3 the weight of the kit fin, and ends up more warp resistant, not to mention that it looks much nicer.

I've got a Guillow's Arrow on the wall, and if you substitute the wood on that one, you can make a real floater - if you build one, you'd better put on a DT system...  It is probably a decent flyer if built with the kit wood. It doesn't have a great nose for adjustment, but you can modify that fairly easy, and it is big enough to get the rubber into the fuselage with the mod.

Justin
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lemuel
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« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2010, 05:44:35 PM »

I ordered a plan and canopy from guillows spare parts store but I can't remember the name of the plane that I ordered. Huh Should be here in a few weeks.

regards
Matthew
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atesus
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« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2010, 05:54:22 PM »

H'mmm. They look like Matty pins.

A-ha! Now it clicked, after seeing Matthew's post... Yes, they are Matty pins, I had seen them in Matthew's build pictures first. I hope you didn't mind me copying them Matthew Grin.
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« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2010, 08:55:01 PM »

Gee you guys are making me feel sorry I started working on my rc club buddies busted plane so soon , and I was feeling sorry for myself to start with! So now I'm working on a little ff electric and I can't remember the name of it because I cut up the plan I down loaded to build it and the name went in the trash can darn it? I think it was the thistle or something like that - it has a twin tail boom and pusher prop system for power.

Oh well every one have a good time with the Mr.G's kit planes and I will try to get some pics of this thing when it's done.

TTFN George
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« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2010, 06:21:40 AM »

My 600 series Cessna turned into a very nice flyer (after I sorted a serious CG error). At 28 grams AUW without rubber and windscreen, using stock parts/wood (only changed the HEAVY, tiny prop for a 7" Peck), the 22" span model flys very nicely on two loops of 3/32 Tan SS. I will be swapping the plastic wheels for balsa ones and maybe the prop (if a carved one comes out lighter).

The plan indicated CG LOOKS to be in the right region, but mine flys AND glides very well with the CG at the tip TE Huh. The vid I shot yesterday only caught about 1 second of the second flight with 500 turns. A third attempt with 750 got nixed with a broken "O" ring and minor (not field repairable) damage.
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dmar836
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« Reply #44 on: September 14, 2010, 02:58:16 PM »

I built the 900 series Birddog as my first model getting back into this and, despite all the other's luck, I have never been able to get it to fly. Honestly I fell out of like with it so I do only enough to repair it for it's next failure. I need to start the thinking process all over again but I'm always in a rush to mess with the latest builds.

Dave
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« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2010, 05:49:31 PM »

dmar

You built an Birddog and it wont fly ? Shocked That does not compute man ? - Shocked I have built a lot of birddog planes in the past and only had one that did not fly and that is because I never go it finished yet!

My first was one of Mr. Gs dimescale kits and has gone through almost every other model kit makers had to put out and some of my own messed up scratch built planes and they have all been good to great flyers!! I did not know any one before this that did not get a good flyer out of them?

I'm not putting you down guy I just don't understand why the bird won't fly for you Huh Huh Shocked

George
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« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2010, 06:22:11 PM »

I had a 900 Bird Dog about 4 years ago and it didn't fly "off the board". After checking the decalage, I added a bit more negative on the stab (it had only 2° decalage) and it was better but still dived. CG was per plan, so I added weight to the tail till I got a good glide. After two low powered tests, I wound it up pretty near to busting and that was the last I saw of it.

My 600 Cessna was exactly the same, a tad shy in incidence and very nose heavy. Two SUPER tests on 200 and 500 turns, and the balance point is at the TIP TRAILING edge.

Does this sound similar to what your 'Dog is doing?
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« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2010, 07:58:33 PM »

Here's a shot of my 600 Cessna 180 after the repairs from a broken "O" ring (500+ turns on the rubber). Still have to add a stripe on the other side and the windshield. 28 grams w/o rubber (4 x 15" strands of 3/32 Tan SS). Did fine with only 4 grams and 500 turns before the ring broke.
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« Reply #48 on: September 15, 2010, 10:53:08 AM »

Mooney,

In your reply #30 on August 30, you said that was a neat way to design the cowling and motor support. Check out The Plan Page by Garry Hunter. Paul Lindberg used that design on many of his models (his designs have LOTS of parts, but look good if you can persevere to the end). Many of the old designs contain little gems like this if you pore through them enough. Nice thing about the cowl design is that it can be made removable if desired. Now you just need to build a motor around that support....

I've mostly built an SB2U Vindicator from the Lindberg plan on the Plan Page. It's slated to be one of the ones I'm finishing this winter. I think the plan is titled Navy Scout, or something like that. I've always thought the planform should make a good rubber flyer, and the plan makes into a nice, large one. Come to think of it, I have a Mr. Mulligan framed up (also on the "finish" list for this winter) that I think is a Lindberg plan. I don't know how they'll fly, but they both look like they should do OK. I've been building a true full cylinder motor for each (Mr. Mulligan's is much nicer looking, although it's lacking pushrods, plug wires, rocker covers, etc. I built it up from card stock with 1/64" balsa spacers, then drilled out the centers to lighten it up. Hopefully, the model will need the noseweight). The SB2U still needs a better cowling over it's motor; it just looks too long, although it measures to be right. I think it just doesn't have the right curves.

Justin
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Mooney
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« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2010, 06:20:33 PM »

Hi Warhawk,
Maybe a bit off-topic, I apologise in advance. I was recently reading an old "Aero Modeller" magazine that featured a few very nice 3 views of a Hawker Hurricane and the Brisfit. In the back of the magazine I was shocked to read of a lightweight technique for adding color to the tissue. It was chalking!

The only difference is, they used oil pastels in this particular article. Amazing! The more I learn the more I realize that there really isn't anything that wasn't already done by the guys before us. Hearing that the "box" noseblock was done prior doesn't surprise me.

More on topic, the 900 series (the slab siders) can be made to fly even with the included kit wood. Fast to complete and fun. Durable too (grin)

Have fun
Moon
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