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Author Topic: Guillow’s 500 Series, Anything about building or flying them.  (Read 5073 times)
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Widdog
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« on: September 21, 2010, 01:47:01 AM »

The subject for this year's "G" Challenge is 500 series kits. The model has to be built between the announcement of the rules (November 15, last year) and October 31 of the current year. All you have to do is join the Yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/guillows_g_challenge/?yguid=134236090 and post pictures of the model for appearance judging and post an entry about your model in the Challenge Entry database. This is an Internet "Postal" contest, open to anyone in the world, so flight times are on the honor system.
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p40qmilj
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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2010, 07:32:24 AM »

 Grin To get these designs to work DIET DIET DIET.

JIM
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Dave K
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« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2010, 10:02:19 AM »

Here is a thread with some pictures and info from my Hellcat build from the last 500 challenge.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=805789&highlight=guillows+hellcat

And some pictures of the FW-190 I am building for this years challenge.
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Widdog
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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2010, 10:05:06 AM »

I didn’t really choose the 500 series it more or less chose me. I got such good advice on my other thread “Things That Should Be In The Guillow’s Build and Fly Booklet But Aren’t” That I decided to give this contest a try.

I’m going to try and build and enter in the contest , A Guillow’s Kit 505 Messorschmitt BF 109. I choose this particular kit. Because, Of course it has to be a 500 series kit. Also the picture looks like it will be easy to make the wing stay on with a rubber band.

I will be applying all the advice, I learned in my other thread, Onto this build. With the benefit of the advice I learned, I feel I have as much of a chance at winning as anyone else does.
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Dave W
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2010, 11:21:23 AM »

Nice looking 190, Dave! What about the other model (looks like a Mustang) in the background? And what about the plastic kits??

The best advice I can give about building the 500 Series: Do what Dave K does. He's figured out how to make them fly really well. One hint: Look where he put the motor peg.

My only experience with a 500 Series kit was not good. In the '90s I was going to build the Hurricane; my return to stick-and-tissue modeling. But many of the parts were "die crushed" and I gave up. That set me back 10 years to get back into this hobby! (I've heard the new kits have better wood.) I still have that old kit. Maybe I'll build a Hurricane from the plans someday, however that wouldn't qualify for the Guillows Challenge.

DW
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scigs30
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2010, 12:19:34 PM »

I have built all the 500 series and got everyone of them to fly except the Stuka, still working on that. Anyway I have tried lightening them and just building stock so I can give you an honest assessment. I will post 2 links of my Guillows Hellcat build. One I built stock with no mods and she is painted. The second one is built completely modified with light wood. If you shave the wood in the kit, you will definitely lighten the build. The problem is if the kit comes with 15+ to 27lb/ft wood, shaving,sanding, and drilling holes is only going to do so much, it is still heavy. Most of the new Guillows kits come with 10-15lb/ft wood still heavy but doable. If the kit comes with heavier wood, I contact Guillows for replacement at no charge. So lets go back to making the kit lighter. If I shave all the wood and omit parts, I think I can lighten the balsa structure by 40 percent. That is pretty good, since the normal Guillows 500 series structure weighs about 10-14 grams without the plastic. So you can get it down to 7-10 grams with a lot of sweat and tears. Notice how I said without the plastic. The plastic parts themselves will weigh about 10 to 12 grams and that is what makes these kits heavy. So if you built the kit with the kit wood and plastic you are looking at 20-24 grams without the covering or at least that is what I shoot for. With the shaving and sanding of wood you are looking at 17 to 20 grams, so now you see the weight difference is not that great. The only way to truly make these planes light is to replace the wood with contest balsa and replace some of the plastic parts with balsa structures. I have seen these planes come in at 14 to 17 grams with complete overhauls at my local flying club. Most of the guys only use the plastic canopy and everything else is built up balsa. There is no doubt the lighter you make these, the better they will fly and easier to trim but how much better do they fly? For me a few seconds is not worth the sweat and tears of sanding and hacking away at parts. But that is me, there is an art to making planes light and that is fun in it self, but for some reason I am not there right now. Other than the Hellcat and Avenger, most of the 500 series kits are hard to trim and challenging. I don't mind that, I like the challenge. The Guillows challenge is on an honor system, that is why I always take my wife with me to to time the flight and take pictures. This is a challenge and so every second does count and that's where lightning comes in to get those couple extra seconds. Now replace the wood and some plastic and those seconds can turn into a minute. I am happy with building the plane and watching it fly for 20 to 40 seconds, but most model builders want to see more flight times with all their labor, can't blame them.

http://balsamodels.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1594&start=0

http://balsamodels.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1173&highlight=hellcat
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Widdog
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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2010, 06:26:32 PM »

Dave K and Scigs 30. Wow great models, great builds and great advice!

I am an Intimidate level modeler. Honestly I don’t think I have chance at winning the contest. However, It is still fun for me to enter. I am having a blast getting better on these 500 Series kits. My accessory’s collection seems to be getting well stocked for these kits. Also my launching, trimming and flying skills are getting better.

As always everybody, I appreciate reading, your comments and posts.
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« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2011, 08:25:24 PM »

I built the  Guillow’s Kit 505 Messorschmitt BF 109. I think it would fly better with a Trim Tab…I tried warping the tail but still it seems like the right wing has more lift than the left wing…

I think I saw a picture of Kit 505 flying and I do believe I saw a Trim Tab on the left wing. However, I think that in the picture the landing gear wear attached. I’m still new to getting these 500 series kits to fly so I go without landing gear.

I mine as well learn about Trim Tabs now because I have a Stuka kit on deck. I heard that the Stuka does not fly. I will try “Pre Shrinking “ the tissue this time. Also of course landing gear and in general making it look as well as I can.
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baedman
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« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2011, 12:36:16 AM »

I'm confused, I thought the "G" challange for this year was for the 300 series. Is there more than one G challange series contests?

Bruce E

"This group is an annual Guillows cook-up fun challenge. It is open to anyone, world wide. The basic idea of the challenge is that all participants build the same Guillow's kit or a model from the same, designated Guillow's series, from the time the rules are posted until October 31 of the following year. The 2011 Guillows "G" challenge will be for any 300 series Guillows kit, using rubber power. The model may be built with other wood but extra points are gained for using the kit wood. The models are judged on appearance and flying time. An added category is the Orv Olm Speed Dash.

This group is where the participants in the "G" Challenge post the contest pictures of their models, progress pictures, building tips and the flight time results. Mark Tennant and several others on the staff at Guillow will judge the appearance points and there is a prize, supplied by Guillow for the overall winner in each category. The Challenge deadline is October 31 2011.

2011 "G" CHALLENGE RULES ARE IN MESSAGE #2388"
 
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Bruce Edman, USA, Will be missed by all who knew him.
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« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2011, 04:30:09 AM »

 Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Roll Eyes

If you take the 500 series plans to your local copy shoppe and blow them up 25 to 50 % you will get a great flyer. Use light wood and foam (dinner plates for parts you can bring the model in for about 20 too 25 gms and that is a perfect size/weight to make these babies work.

JIM
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Widdog
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« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2011, 06:55:50 AM »

The subject for 2010 "G" Challenge was 500 series kits...


The 2010 G Challenge got me hooked on the 500 Series Kits. I entered, in 2010 The  Rufe built as a Zero without landing gear. I got it to fly for one minute. I am going to build each of the 500 Series Kits. I will fly them except for the Stuka. I have heard that the Stuka does not fly. I am building the Stuka  for display. I will put my Cox Pee Wee 0.010 Motor on the Stuka and hang it from the ceiling.
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« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2011, 08:05:35 AM »

Really too bad that the Ju-87 is so difficult to get to fly as a FF (tho I have read of successful exploits with the Guillow's 500 series).  The 1000 series one at 34" ws should be a bit easier to get to fly (IF you substitute the wood), but the price puts me off.
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« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2011, 12:12:38 PM »

Well I read up on Trim Tabs. (From This Great Site) Applied it to my BF 109. I by no means am an expert …Far from it… However, With all the great information I get from this Web Site, I actually am flying 500 Series Guillow’s kits…With this said my point is these kits must be good if I (Intermediate) can get them to fly…

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« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2011, 11:04:10 PM »

the difficulty in getting the stuka to fly is aparently the design of the wing,thre has been mention of this either on these forums ,or , maybe I read it in sfa,I know the mchard designed 17"w/s flies but I found it was also very hard to trim,I think in part due to the very prominent u/c maybe acting as rudders
Col
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« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2011, 03:25:31 AM »

re the remark about the spats acting like rudders.  google the JU 187 a proposed successor.  Build the suka again using the cleaned up design and see what happens.

jim Roll Eyes
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« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2011, 08:33:44 PM »

hhmmm and the reversable tail! VERY interesting
col
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« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2011, 05:49:09 AM »

hhmmm and the reversable tail! VERY interesting
col
... especially the WAY it was to be reversed.  The whole unit was to rotate around the horizontal fuselage axis - and this DURING flight!  There are some of the pics/diagrams where the break/pivot demarcation is visible, just ahead of the stab LE.

I can only imagine the effects the rotating tail surfaces would have had on the "flight" itself, not to mention the problems with control surface actuation Shocked.
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« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2011, 04:36:17 PM »

I am starting a new 500 series build. I am going to try to take the electronics out of the Parkzone Ultra Micro T-28 and build it into Kit 507 Rufe.
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« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2011, 08:25:30 PM »

The Stuka is not easy to get to fly, but it can be done.  It's not spectacular, mine did 19 seconds tops, but people looking at it would say, "Wow! Pigs can fly!".  And, yes, it is in Japanese markings.
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Widdog
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« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2011, 06:26:40 PM »

Ok I have never flown  a RC plane before. I will be learning on the FMS Simulator system. This is a Free download RC simulator. I will use my Logetech Game pad. I figure compared to Free Flight Rubber power this should be a breeze.

I will try and paste a video of a Avenger that was converted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5VtQD5kYas&feature=player_embedded
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« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2011, 11:15:10 AM »

I took the Parkzone Ultra Micro T -28 flying today. This was my first time flying R.C. I got to the RC Flying Field (Meredith, Fairmont WV) kind of early 08:00 AM. I was the only one there. Good thing I have Rubber Power Free Flight experience.

I did a pre flight. Everything looked centered and straight. Long story short Wham-O-. Good thing this plane can really take a beating well. No damage.

Anyway, I took the plane to the high grass and trimmed it mechanically just like I would a Rubber Power Model. The only difference is instead warping control surfaces, like in Rubber Power, The control rods are bent to lengthen or shorten them. I used half throttle and got the plane to do a good 20 feet smooth guide pattern.

I guess I should have stated with this point but the “Mapping” of the FMS Flight Simulator and the “Mapping” of the transmitter should be the same. Thankfully somehow that worked out for me.

Long story short, I was flying RC by myself today. The plane came through like a champ. Now I may either “Kit Bash” it (This is a model railroad term meaning to take the parts out of one kit and put into another). Or keep flying it till it bashes itself. Horizon Hobby has a really good sale on this kit I may end up buying another T 28. I’ll see what Mr. Wallet thinks.
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« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2011, 04:25:09 PM »

Question? It seems to me that building ailerons is kind of tough. Does anyone think the Rufe/Zero could fly on 3 channels (Throttle, Rudder and Elevator.) I think I read that small planes don’t really benefit that much from ailerons. 
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« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2011, 04:48:08 PM »

Question? It seems to me that building ailerons is kind of tough. Does anyone think the Rufe/Zero could fly on 3 channels (Throttle, Rudder and Elevator.) I think I read that small planes don’t really benefit that much from ailerons. 

Going by most pundits, if you don't have ailerons, you need extra dihedral to impart some stability - if the original design was free flight, then the plan dihedral should be fine (bearing in mind that low wing warbirds are, by design, unstable anyway so the pilot can throw it round the sky when hot lead is coming in his direction)
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« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2011, 05:43:38 PM »

Well the way I learned how to do Rubber Power Free Flight was in my other Tread…”Things That Should Be In The Guillow’s How To Build And Fly But Aren’t”

Anyway, The plans call for a 3/8 inch dihedral. I found that personally a 1 inch dihedral worked the best for me. On my BF 109 I also had to add a “Trim Tab”. 

Long story short I already have the wings framed up. I built it with a 3/8 inch dihedral. I’m hoping that the Rudder can help keep it from doing wing flips.
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« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2011, 06:11:16 PM »

You can always steam in a bit of washout on each wing if it tip stalls after contruction
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