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Outdoor Free Flight Forum => Cook-Up Section For Outdoor Free Flight => Topic started by: rgroener on November 07, 2016, 06:40:04 AM



Title: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on November 07, 2016, 06:40:04 AM
Is anybody interested in a VMC Kit cookup?
I did not yet buy a VMC kit, but I would like to and if I can build the plane in a cookup, it would be even more fun.
There should be a nice subject for everybody. Therefore I hope to find many participants for this cookup.
If you have never tried a cookup, this would be a good moment to do so ;)

Here are the rules:
- At least 5 participants to officially start this cookup.
- Start Date is 1.1.2017        (so there is plenty of time to order a kit...)
- End Date is 31.12.2017      (sure some of you will be ignoring the deadline ;D)
- All kits from VMC are eligible to enter the cookup     https://www.vintagemodelcompany.com/ (https://www.vintagemodelcompany.com/)


What do you think, did I miss something?


Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on November 07, 2016, 07:03:08 AM
Hi Roman. I'm in!
I've got the SE5a ready to roll and I find cookups always keep me going and, as you say, make it more fun!

(PS bit cloudy here today- sort us out some sunshine please!)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on November 07, 2016, 09:16:36 AM
Pete, good to hear that you are in :D
The Se5a looks nice. I havent decided yet what kit I would choose if we bring together 5 participants.... But since I have a Se5a, it will be most likely something else :)

Lets wait and see who else will jump on the train.

About the weather... I am working on it....  No sunshine today :(

Roman



Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Mefot on November 07, 2016, 09:23:04 AM
I have their Spitfire and Me109 kits so would like to participate with one or other ( or both !!! )  ;D


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on November 07, 2016, 03:07:18 PM





Jodel


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: F F modeller on November 07, 2016, 03:15:28 PM
Years behind with stuff, but will watch with interest.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on November 07, 2016, 04:51:45 PM
I've been promised a Camel for Christmas. If it's under the tree, I'm in!

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on November 07, 2016, 04:59:22 PM
I think that makes the five, Roman!

(You could still do with a few more though because, as it stands, the whole thing rests on Dan being a good boy.)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: F F modeller on November 07, 2016, 05:07:29 PM
By VMC, do you mean that it is the Magnificent Flying Machine range only?


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on November 07, 2016, 05:13:32 PM
Me? Good?? Surely not...

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on November 07, 2016, 05:29:21 PM
Actually I might be trying to get on Santa's good list too, as I intend to put the Camel on my Christmas list as well. If the cookup runs for a year I should be able to manage one as well as the SE5a.

And the Geebee Z of course, although Andrew's gone a bit quiet on that one. I expect it's in hand though.
(If we keep chipping away do you think it will happen?  ;D)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Hepcat on November 07, 2016, 06:17:18 PM
I wondered why the opening post did not mention the five or six models that were available. Then I looked for a VMC website and found they had 86 models listed. Can I assume that most of them do not have the magic touch of Andrew Darby?  Anyway I did look through the whole lot and one brought a piece of poetry to mind; does anyone remember this:
 " Lots of struts in all directions, Curved and cut out centre sections, Stringbag the sailor's had his day, but in his own distinguished way, he's left his mark on history's page, he champion of the biplane age." 
That is typical I suppose, I'm not much of a craftsman, I don't build scale models, I don't buy kits so I pick the most unsuitable model. I'll see what my birthday brings in May.
John


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on November 08, 2016, 01:44:10 AM
Quote
By VMC, do you mean that it is the Magnificent Flying Machine range only?
I thought about writing it in the first post. But I was not sure myself...
I would propose the whole Magnificent Flying Machine line and also some of the Veron Tru-flite and the Keil Kraft line as long as they have the Vintage Model co logo on the picture. Like this one https://www.vintagemodelcompany.com/fokker-dviii.html (https://www.vintagemodelcompany.com/fokker-dviii.html)
Would it be acceptable for you?

I dont know when they add a Vintage Model co logo, maybe Andrew can help with some information on this.


Jack Plane, I tried to read between the lines in your post. But since it is only one word, I was not able to get the message ;D Good to have you in.

Pete, yep it looks good. All our hopes are on Don. Thats quite some pressure on him...

Dan, lets cross our fingers...

Aeromedelista, at least we have you as Cheerleader with us. Some of us will need some encouragement or kicking as soon as the deadline is coming closer ;D

Mefot, great one (or two) I have no idea if I can count you as two participants when you build two planes ::)

Jon, lets hope that your birthday brings you the right present.


Roman



Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on November 08, 2016, 02:40:31 AM
Quote
By VMC, do you mean that it is the Magnificent Flying Machine range only?
I thought about writing it in the first post. But I was not sure myself...

I dont know when they add a Vintage Model co logo, maybe Andrew can help with some information on this

Hi guys,

The Magnificent Flying Machines range are my designs from scratch.  The others with the photos and logo are ones from Veron and KK etc that the chaps at VMC or I built and then took pictures of.  This is because when they took over what was Replikit they had very little in the way of images for their website and promo material.

Thanks for starting this Roman, I will watch with interest  ;D


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on November 08, 2016, 04:03:16 AM
Adrew thanks for clarification :)
Any news about models in the pipline?
Lets hope that we have many participants with lots of different models.

Ok, so shall we make it a Magnificent Flying Machines cookup?
Everybody interested until now has a subject from within the Magnificent Flying Machines range.
At the moment 11 models are to choose from. https://www.vintagemodelcompany.com/magnificent-flying-machines.html (https://www.vintagemodelcompany.com/magnificent-flying-machines.html)
And as we know Andrews pace on bringing out new kits, some five to ten new models will be available until the end of the cookup ;D ;)

Now I have to choose a subject myself... If you agree to the new cookup range, the Harvard isn't anymore eligible. I most likely will go for the Tiger Moth.


Best Regards Roman


List with participants and models at the moment:

Pete            Se5a
Mefot          Spitfire / Me109
Jack Plane   Jodel D-18
Dan            Sopwith Camel
Roman        Tiger Moth






Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Mefot on November 08, 2016, 10:20:22 AM
Roman


Maybe Andrew could run you up a  Harvard, after he's done Peter's GeeBee Z !!!  ;) ;D :o


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on November 08, 2016, 10:40:39 AM
He's got a Fairey 'Stringbag' Swordfish to design first!  ;D

Here from David Wragg's book:

...an American naval officer stared at a Swordfish for the first time.
'Where did that come from?' he asked.
'Fairey's', came the reply from a British naval officer standing nearby.
He stroked his chin thoughtfully. 'That figures', he replied.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on November 08, 2016, 03:16:25 PM
Erm, could be a while for the Geebee! - the Harvard stands more of a chance, but in all honesty I really don't know what I will do next...

I would have thought that the Corsair will be available in the early part of the year though, I'm bumping the thread on that one as I'm trying to get some more info on the markings...

Cheers all

Andrew


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Mooney on November 08, 2016, 09:29:22 PM
Love the swordfish, and the story, Jack Plane.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: SeanM on November 22, 2016, 05:15:58 PM
Hi Roman.

Sounds like this might be fun.  I did hint at the SE5A as a Christmas present, but my wife pointed to the small pile of boxes on the shelf and shook her head.  I fancy a high wing monoplane so put me down for the Cessna 140.  Should make trimming a bit easer!

Sean


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on November 22, 2016, 06:01:08 PM
One thing to point out to any of you building on this thread is that if you go to the page on the VMC website for your particular model (Jodel, SE5 etc...) there is a tab that says "additional resources" under this you will find PDF's of the Markings sheet to print on your own choice of media, as well as ones for the paper/ acetate part outlines with a fine hair line (to save tracing from the plan)

Cheers

Andrew


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on November 23, 2016, 09:19:17 AM
Sean, the Cessna 140 sounds good.
If the "no no pointing" appears, it sometimes help to point to the shoe shelf or to the handbags ::)

Andrew, thanks for the tip. This makes things a bit easier.

By the way, my Tiger Moth should be on the way :D

Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on December 01, 2016, 05:43:52 PM
I had to pick up a parcel for my Beloved from the Post Office today. Unless I'm much mistaken, It's VMC kit box size...

Looks like I've been good enough this year!

Game on.

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on December 08, 2016, 07:09:30 AM
Dan, I am crossing my fingers for you ;D
Still waiting for my package from the UK... Should arrive soon...

Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: DHnut on December 08, 2016, 03:38:19 PM
Dan,
        I hear another slightly larger box has come your way. Looks as if you are about to become even busier!
          Ricky


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on December 08, 2016, 05:00:37 PM
Hi Ricky!

Yes it has and I am very impressed. Expensive, but worth every penny given the work that must have gone into it.

I need to do the Tiggie first, but this won't be long...

Cheers,

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on December 24, 2016, 04:39:48 PM
Christmas Day tomorrow! If the promised Camel kit is in my stocking, all else will be put on hold and I will be starting ASAP! Anybody made any progress yet?

Cheers,

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Mefot on December 24, 2016, 04:56:12 PM
Dan

Good luck for the Camel and Merry Christmas for tomorrow.

I think this cook-up doesn't start until the first of January ( see post #1 ).

I am chomping at the bit here !!!  :o


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on December 25, 2016, 03:57:27 PM
The promised Camel arrived under the tree today! I've had a good look and will be starting on the first. I don't think I'm allowed until then!

Cheers,

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on December 25, 2016, 04:34:52 PM
I'd somehow got the idea that Andrew had cheated and added dihedral on the top wing. I'm very pleased it's flat as a Camel's should be! I may think differently when I come to trim it, but Andrew's certainly goes well!

Can't wait to get cracking!

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on December 26, 2016, 06:55:04 AM
A minor drawback on the Camel front here: my eagerly unwrapped present from Carole turned out to be a Replikit kK Camel from VMC, rather than the new Darby designed one! Entirely my fault for not being more specific. Hopefully they'll exchange it. I'm doing the SE5A first in any case.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on December 26, 2016, 07:39:58 AM
No dihedral on the top wing Dan. However I have to admit that the prototype developed a tiny bit all on its own due to tissue shrinkage!  It is pretty stable though.

The folks at VMC are nice guys Pete (despite their criminal looking mug shots in the January Aeromodeller!  ;D ;D ;D) just give them a bell, I think that they are back in the office on the 3rd of January...

Talking about Aeromodeller, I enjoyed reading your piece about you and your dad...

Andrew


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: F F modeller on December 26, 2016, 09:59:11 AM
Santa didn't hear my call ... story of my life I suppose.  ::)

I'll just watch still ... maybe with a tear in my eye ...


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on December 26, 2016, 12:54:15 PM
I have to confess that I couldn't wait and have started my Camel!  It will take me a while to re-plumb the Brown MJ70 that I'm intending to use for power, so I don't feel TOO bad.

Cheers,

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: ffscale on December 27, 2016, 06:13:24 AM
Santa brought me a VMC Camel, which was delighted with.  Lovely kit, and really nice wood.  Do you know where it's sourced from Andrew?  They could set up a sideline selling the sheet on its own I reckon!

So, count me in for the cookup, but I think with the Tiger Moth - difficult to decide between the two, but I found a very colourful Swedish Tiggie trainer scheme that I've just got to do.  The Camel will have to wait  :)

Mike S


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on December 27, 2016, 02:01:06 PM
Just on time for christmas, my package from VMC arrived.
I already thought that it might be lost on the way....
The package looks like a cow had it in its mouth. (Maybe only someting swiss people say, but you know what I mean...)
Anyway, that parts inside the box are alright. So I am looking forward to start soon.

AeromodeLISTA, sorry to hear that you are "only" watching :(

Dan, you cheated?!? :o     ;D

Mike, great to have you on board. I like the colourful swedish scheme ;D

Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on December 27, 2016, 02:33:50 PM
I didn't cheat! Nothing is glued together yet. I've just had a good session or two of poring over the plans and thinking things through. On reflection, one of my Telcos would be a better fit than the Brown I was intending to use, given the Telco's shorter overall length. I have a couple of earlier ones with the knurled speed control, which were reputedly set up by hand and were much better than the later ones, which could be inconsistent.

Back soon!

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: F F modeller on December 27, 2016, 03:50:57 PM
Do those motors equate to the GM63 roughly,  Dan?
I build up this knowledge ... then it slowly slips away again!


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on December 27, 2016, 04:00:38 PM
Yes Russ. The GM63 even shares the same mounting holes with the Telco, if I'm not mistaken. I have a GM63BB, but the Telco seems a better fit for this.

Cheers,

Dan


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on December 29, 2016, 02:52:20 PM





Jodel

Oh, I've just realised its OUTDOOR...

In which case its has to be my yet-to-be-built 2015 Christmas pressie for rubber... u/c up and in pink reconnaissance colours!

 :D


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on January 02, 2017, 08:07:10 AM
The cookup hast officially started!
Open the box and start building :D
Looking forward to see the first bits glued together...
Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Mefot on January 02, 2017, 09:37:25 AM
Well the weather is a bit too good for building but after spending the morning trimming a little CLG I thought I would throw a bit of balsa at the board. I must second what other people have said about the quality of the wood. It is first rate, and certainly not available at any LHS I've ever visited. If it ever becomes available to order I might get crushed in the rush !!!

Happy New Year Everybody  :)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on January 02, 2017, 11:50:15 AM
Mefot, hope you were successful with the trimming. It looks nice!
Are the clear pin disk self made?

I also started with the stabilizer and rudder. Its unusual for me, I normaly start with the fuselage... But hey, its a new year so why not start it the other way ;D
I still dont know what colours I will choose for this bird, but I still have some time...


Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on January 02, 2017, 12:07:53 PM
Hi Chaps,

Nervously watching this one!

In answer to your (much earlier) question Mike and your later question Mefot - I am not entirely sure, they have struggled determinedly to get the good wood, and they do try very hard to get it by searching out as many sources as they can.  I think that it helps that the sheets are graded for purpose and often the sheets with the jigs (for the bipes) allow them to use up heavy stock, as I put the nose parts onto those sheets too.  Yvonne (who you may have seen in the Aeromodeller article) does a good job of sorting and selecting it too..

Andrew



Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: ffscale on January 02, 2017, 01:38:50 PM
My Tiggie is underway too - these kits do come together really quickly - fit of all the parts in the upper wings was perfect.  Very satisfying.

Excellent instructions too - I forced myself to read the booklet rather than charging ahead as I usually do!

Mike S


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Mefot on January 02, 2017, 02:58:22 PM
The trimming went well Roman. I only stopped because my hands were turning blue from the cold !!!

The discs are indeed home made. I used a hole punch to cut them out of Pringles can tops.

No need to be nervous Andrew. I think everyone agrees that these kits are excellent  :)

Nice work Mike. Looking forward to seeing your Tiggie when it's painted.

Managed to glue the laminated parts together. The photo shows four of the five noseblock laminations glued up and held together with clothes pegs.I used the nose button to jig them together.l'll glue the fifth piece on as soon as I get it back off the cat !!!

I'm using the glue supplied with the kit  and it is nice to work with. The bottle is easy to use,dispensing just the right amount as needed.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on January 03, 2017, 11:08:23 AM
Quote
The discs are indeed home made. I used a hole punch to cut them out of Pringles can tops.

Wow, thanks thats a great tip. I have to make some of them since I think that black ones arent made / sold anymore... Your way seems to be easy and cheap to produce them your self ;D

Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Mefot on January 03, 2017, 03:42:27 PM
Forgot to mention yesterday the kit comes with three sheets of balsa containing all the components,including the strip wood. There are one "hard" sheet and two "soft" sheets. The "hard" sheet weighed in at 8½# and the "soft" sheets at 6½#. Has anybody mentioned how good the wood is ?

Made a bit of progress today and started the fuselage. It will soon be time to decide on a colour scheme. I'm not sure what that will be yet,but I know it won't be black,white,or pink !!! ;D


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Hepcat on January 03, 2017, 09:26:10 PM
I have only had my magnetic board a very few months and yet looking at the photographs in #41,#42 and #43 with their forests of pins is like looking at pictures of modellers in the 1920s with the spruce and bamboo being joined with thread and 'Seccotine' and little nails.  I am not trying to be at all critical, just noticing how we do get step changes in modelling from time to time.  Indeed it would appear that in a few months all small scale nodels will be made with craft cutters and nails, pins and magnets will all be 'old hat'.
John   




Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on January 04, 2017, 06:11:25 AM
Mefot, dont make a pink Spitfire... It would hurt my eyes... I am quite open to colour schemes, but pink....?!

John, I've heard about the magnet boards for building. Never tried it. I just like to do it the old way :)

Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Mefot on January 04, 2017, 08:16:54 AM
An interesting point Hepcat  although I would surmise that the craft cutter models are assembled with the aid of pins or magnets. I would also point out that they also are already old hat. Current cutting edge modelling is already done with the aid of 3d printers including complete scale models. As they say,progress waits for no man,but I think there is room for all of us, including the pins,spruce and bamboo. Not sure about the nails though !!!  ;D

It won't be pink Roman. I'm leaving that one to RalphS  :)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on January 04, 2017, 09:22:43 AM
Mefot, you saved my day :D


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on January 04, 2017, 09:58:11 AM
How about a blue recce one? I've always liked those.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: RalphS on January 04, 2017, 10:15:04 AM
Current cutting edge modelling is already done with the aid of 3d printers including complete scale models.
It won't be pink Roman. I'm leaving that one to RalphS  :)

Don't know how I got dragged into this - no intention of building a Spitfire.    ???

As for 3d printed models ............. have a look at this    https://3dlabprint.com/shop/lockheed-p-38-lightning/

In the meantime still working at plug-together craft cutter work.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Mefot on January 04, 2017, 10:19:28 AM
That's a good idea Peter although I am leaning towards a mishmash of the schemes below. All in tissue as I have no means of spraying colour and rattle cans would probably prove too heavy  :)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Mefot on January 04, 2017, 10:24:24 AM
My mistake RalphS, I should of course have said Jack Plane !!! :'(

I think the P-38 is a bit beyond my skills in any medium !!!


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on January 04, 2017, 11:37:58 AM
Well it's not pink-   quite RED though!  :D


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on January 05, 2017, 05:06:04 AM
PINK!

 ;D


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on January 05, 2017, 12:42:24 PM
Arghhh my eyes.... ::) ;D


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on January 05, 2017, 03:11:43 PM
You think that hurts...?!

First up is the colour scheme for the Chris Foss Middle Phase aileron wing slope-soarer kit I'm just starting... BLACK fuselage and vertical tail parts, FLUORESCENT PINK for the upper wings and horizontal tail, and lower wing surfaces will of course be full-on 'invasion stripes' so I can see which way's up!  :o

Second is the Blaster 3 DLG I'm almost finished assembling, all hypermodern materials and all that... fuselage and fin CARBON BLACK, horizontal surfaces BRIGHT ORANGE, wing undersides broad B&W STRIPES for the usual visibility challenges...!

 ;D


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Mefot on January 05, 2017, 03:39:11 PM
Sunglasses are recommended for viewing the previous post !!! :D


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: F F modeller on January 05, 2017, 06:57:20 PM
We will allow it for the slope soarer .... but .....  ;)

The phase series were all I wanted at one point in the 70s ... managed the Phase 6 in the 80s but have dumped most of my dad's Phase Lift that never got finished  :(


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on January 09, 2017, 01:42:49 AM
I started with the fuselage. There is quite some work for preparing all the parts before assembling.
The parts fit very well. I like the small small glue bottle with its small opening. It makes it easy to dose the glue.
A toothpick is still handy to clean the glue joints from surplus glue.
I hope to add the second half of the fuselage to the formers today.



Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: ffscale on January 09, 2017, 04:29:51 AM
Wings and tail surfaces now done – all the bits continue to fit amazingly well.  One minor addition has been a couple of very soft 1/8” balsa gussets at the upper wing roots, which sit on top of the kit gussets fitted at the lower surface of the wing.  These aren’t structural but rather to avoid the risk of tissue wrinkles in the corners.

Even with the time taken to sand off the burnt edges of the parts, this has been a very quick build so far.

Mike S


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on January 11, 2017, 01:41:34 AM
Mike, great progress on your Moth.

I wanted to go on with the fuselage, but I have a question about the score line in front of the former F3A.
If the score line is along the former 3A (red line in my pict), and the fuselage is cracked there, then the upper corner of the side pieces will be narrower then the lower corner. ( I hope it is somehow understandable what I mean... ::))
But in the next step the fuselage sides should be fitted to the front former F1 and F2 which are narrower in the lower section and wider in the upper section..... thus the opposite of the fuselage sides...

Can someone enlighten me?

Thanks in advance Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: ZK-AUD on January 11, 2017, 01:52:33 AM
Wings and tail surfaces now done – all the bits continue to fit amazingly well.  One minor addition has been a couple of very soft 1/8” balsa gussets at the upper wing roots, which sit on top of the kit gussets fitted at the lower surface of the wing.  These aren’t structural but rather to avoid the risk of tissue wrinkles in the corners.

Even with the time taken to sand off the burnt edges of the parts, this has been a very quick build so far.

Mike S

Mike that's the sort of thing I would do  - I hate those corner wrinkles


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on January 11, 2017, 02:45:44 AM
Hi Roman,

I hope that these pictures help, my big thumbs are in the way a bit but they should give you the idea...

Andrew


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: ffscale on January 20, 2017, 09:30:21 AM
Fuselage and undercart done now.  My wire bending skills are somewhat lacking, so I found the latter a bit tricky.  Once I had all the bends in the right place though it fitted together fine.  I used 5 amp fuse wire and cyano to bind it, which seemed to work fine.  It looks like a lot of wood in the fuselage, but it doesn't feel heavy.

Mike S


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Mefot on January 20, 2017, 10:11:25 AM
That's a fine bit of wire bending Mike. Fuselage looks good too  :)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: billdennis747 on January 20, 2017, 11:31:46 AM
It looks like a lot of wood in the fuselage, but it doesn't feel heavy.

Mike, I remember the late Mike Hetherington saying he used to shave wood off longerons and spacers at the back and it made no difference, but I intend to do a Tiger and will definitely trim away some of that wood, starting with the triangles right at the back. The moments look similar to the VMC SE5 and that one needs plasticene (the Camel more so!).


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on January 20, 2017, 11:56:41 AM
Don't go overboard! My CO2 Tiggie needed a good lump of tailweight...

Cheers,

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: billdennis747 on January 20, 2017, 02:07:13 PM
Dan. have you flown it? I was wondering about putting my Telco in one
Bill


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on January 20, 2017, 02:27:56 PM
Dan is right, even with rubber power the Tiggy didn't need a lot.  The Camel on the other hand...

There is no doubt that there is a lot of wood in these designs, the construction method and the aim of making them handle-able for the average Joe makes it so.  So you guys can probably hack out quite a bit especially from the rear.

Having said that the sides are made from light wood, where ordinarily you might have stiff (and heavy) 1/16" longerons.  So it's not as heavy as it looks as Mike has observed.

For any one else, (sorry i didn't point this out earlier) I did a bit of a guide to wire bending using the Tiggy undercart as an example.  You can find it at:

https://www.vintagemodelcompany.com/wire-bending-guide.html

Andrew



Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: billdennis747 on January 20, 2017, 02:41:57 PM
I tried to pick up a Tiger from the shop today but it had gone. All they had was Spitfires. So the range are certainly selling. On the other hand, they've had a lot of Aerographics for ages, but you have to cut out the bits. How quickly we succumb!

On an unrelated topic, if anyone is interested in a big indoor site near Newark on Trent, with Weds evening meetings, I can supply details.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on January 20, 2017, 02:48:35 PM
Bill, buy it direct from VMC, the price is probably the same and the post is free...

Andrew


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on January 20, 2017, 04:15:48 PM
Yes Bill, the Tiggie flew happily all day at the NCMAC bash last August. GM63 in mine, so a Telco would be ideal too.

Cheers,

Dan


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on January 23, 2017, 02:02:00 AM
I also found some time to go on with my Tiger build over the weekend. Pics are coming...
The fuselage is mostly done, but wire bending is still pending...
I dont think that I will sand much wood away in the back. What I noticed, the rear peck is quite close to the CG and not far in the back as often seen in kits. So rubber doesnt add much weight behind the CG...


 Roman



Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on January 23, 2017, 02:58:23 PM
Here are the pics...
Still a lot to do... I fill the gaps in the front of the fuselage with light balsa, I never tried the paper sheeting...
After the sanding it should look o.k.

Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on February 26, 2017, 01:10:24 PM
It's quiet here... I assume everybody is building and has no time to post progress.

I did a big part of sanding today. Started with the undercarriage and did some work at the tank.
It is coming along nicely and I am looking forward to see it in the air.
I hope to start with the covering soon.
Most likely, I will take the yellow colour scheme as suggested on the package.

Roman



Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: SeanM on February 28, 2017, 04:38:14 PM
Fear not!  We're approaching the end of the fishing season and the start of my building season.  Cessna ordered and I'm browsing the web for an interesting colour scheme.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on March 28, 2017, 09:36:41 AM
Good to hear that I am not alone ::)

I am quite busy at work, but in the meantime the wings are covered and sprayed with silver colour.
Next part is to join them with the tank in the middle of the upper wing.

Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on April 27, 2017, 03:01:50 PM
Now the Indoor Nats is out of the way, I will get cracking on the Camel!

Cheers,

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on May 04, 2017, 10:02:10 AM
Dan, cant wait to see it beeing built:-)

My Tigher Moth ist on the way. Not very fast, but still on the way.
Maincovering is done, now the small bits have to be done. Oil-cooler and its cheeks are done, landing gear is also bent but not finished yet.

Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on May 04, 2017, 12:11:10 PM
Looking lovely Roman!

My own effort, the pink version of the Spit which has its own build thread, is also now coming on again after the runctions of the Easter holidays.

We all ought to at least finish our own models faster than our Andrew can design AND prototype new ones for the VMC!  :o

Jon


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on May 06, 2017, 09:19:38 AM
Tiggie's looking good, Roman!

Cheers,

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on May 17, 2017, 10:35:36 AM
Some lettering was done over the last weekend.
I am thinking about carving a pilot for this model.
Therefore I already printed out a picture with a pilot in the cockpit to check the size.
Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on May 17, 2017, 10:41:18 AM
Oh, how stupid I am.... ::)
I just saw that the letters on the fuselage are white on the full scale G-ADEN.....
It seems that I have to change that.


Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Mefot on May 17, 2017, 10:45:09 AM
I was just about to say it was looking good,until I read your last post.....!!!
Any idea of the weight ?


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Don McLellan on May 17, 2017, 12:02:52 PM
Beautiful work Roman!  How did you attach the tissue letters?


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on May 18, 2017, 06:22:03 AM
Don, I attached it with the uhu gluestick.
Therefore it is no problem to remove the black letters and replace them with white ones.
I only have to add some water with the brush.

Mefot, at the moment I have no idea about the weight. I can check it.

Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on May 18, 2017, 01:10:11 PM
Made a bit of progress today and started the fuselage. It will soon be time to decide on a colour scheme. I'm not sure what that will be yet,but I know it won't be black,white,or pink !!! ;D

Hows your Spit coming on?  :)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Mefot on May 18, 2017, 01:48:25 PM
Wing panels are built but not joined yet. Fuselage is built and nose planked but not yet sanded. Stab and fin also built. Building stopped and everything packed away when a house move took priority. Unfortunately the move hasn't happened yet so everything is in limbo. The move has been ongoing for three months now but due to various technicalities keeps getting delayed !!! Luckily I am very patient  :D
I might just break it out of it's box at the weekend and do some therapeutic sanding !!!


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on May 18, 2017, 03:08:53 PM
Sorry to hear about the bother with the house move, but yes break open the box of Spit bits!

I can just about see the final furlong on mine, and have a long weekend ahead, mostly at home, mostly alone and keen to get it done!

Jon


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on May 21, 2017, 05:58:08 AM
Some building this weekend. Next weekend also looks promising:-)
The letter colour is fixed.
I put all the parts in the picture above on my scale and it shows already 20 gram.
Lighter would be better, but I have to live with it.
It looks like something is moving in this cookup. Lookig forward to see your progress.

Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on May 21, 2017, 07:56:54 AM
Looking fab!!

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on May 21, 2017, 09:13:31 AM
Hi Chaps,

FYI.  After a conversation with another fellow modeller today I would like to point out that VMC are gradually adding detailed instructions for the "magnificent flying machines" range.  They compliment the existing booklet rather than replace it.  These are freely available pdf's for you to view during your builds.  The SE5 and spitfire are done, I think that the Corsair is next and the others will follow.

Obviously this being a recent development it won't be mentioned in the instructions that may be in your kit.

Here are the two available so far...

https://www.vintagemodelcompany.com/supermarine-spitfire-nightfighter.html

https://www.vintagemodelcompany.com/mfmSE5Aweb.html

Just click on the "instructions" tab.

I wanted to mention this as I know they have been working pretty hard on them and they are nicely done and you can imagine how long each one takes!

Andrew






Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on May 21, 2017, 10:21:06 AM
Thanks, Andrew. That's excellent- and just in time for me as I'll be starting my SE5 shortly. VMC are really leading the way at the moment with your designs, and the general care and consideration being put into pleasing their customers. Long may they continue!

Love the Tiger Moth, Roman. Your models always have such style!


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on May 21, 2017, 11:16:22 AM
Gee Bee Z! You know you want to... Tee hee.

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on May 27, 2017, 03:09:20 PM
Over this long weekend with very nice weather, I built on the tiny bits of my Tiger Moth.
The struts and wheel cover are nearly ready and I also found a pilot who would fit in the cockpit.
I already wanted to carve a new one, when I found out, that I have an unemployed pilot from my old chilton.
He seems to feel happy in his new cockpit.
Next will be the instruments for the cockpit.
Roman



Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: faif2d on May 27, 2017, 03:36:03 PM
When I moved once about 15 - 20 years ago I had to dismantle all my model stuff and pack it into off site storage.  After about 1 mo. I stopped and asked my Doctor for a scalpel so I could do something at least while I waited.  It was 3 more months before we moved and the new house was still not done.  We actually lived in what was to become my model room in the new house for a further 3 months before the new house was finally completed.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on June 04, 2017, 05:00:55 PM
Enjoying the great builds so far. With outdoor projects completed for the time being, I'm (belatedly) ready to join in this cookup and have started on the SE5a. When I say 'started' I mean I've pinned the plan to the board and freed precisely two ribs from the excellent wood of the laser cut sheets. Really looking forward to this one!


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on June 04, 2017, 05:27:40 PM
I need to get my finger out and get stuck into the Camel. Can you suffer from ADHD at 51??!

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on June 04, 2017, 05:45:30 PM
Can you suffer from ADHD at 51??!

Sorry, I meant to reply to this earlier, but I got distracted!  ;D


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on June 17, 2017, 06:58:38 AM
Wings made. Only one mistake so far (that I know about): I used the light 1/16 square strip wood for one of the lower spars, rather than the stuff from the stiffer sheet as specified in the instructions. How nice to have the choice though. Very impressed how the parts fit so exactly over the drawing and go together so well.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on June 20, 2017, 01:49:07 AM
Pete, looking good. I dont know why, but the Se5a always looks like a compact litte plane. I like that a lot. I am sure this one will be a heck of a flyer!
Keep the news coming...

I did some work on the cockpit panel. Since I have a pilot for the moth, I did not want a printed instrument panel in this plane.
The 3D instruments are not scale, not even the layout of the instruments. But in my oppinion, this kind of cockpit panel fits better in my planes.

Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on June 20, 2017, 04:29:42 AM
Everyone's models are looking far more advanced than mine...! I have looked at the plan, honest!

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on June 21, 2017, 03:00:04 AM
Dan, thats a start, start slow and increase the pace ;D
Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on June 21, 2017, 04:07:38 AM
Tee Hee! I have got the tail surfaces together inbetween Cub bits!

Cheers,

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on June 22, 2017, 12:52:49 AM
Great Dan, now we want to see pictures ;D
Good to have an other plane on the way.
Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on June 25, 2017, 11:40:03 AM
SE5 tail parts done- all very easy. Have also made the jigs for aligning the wings. I'm looking forward to using these.

On to the fuselage now...
I agree with you, Roman- there is something about the compactness of an SE5A which is very pleasing to the eye.      

(Loving the Tiger Moth cockpits by the way!)                                                                                                                                                                       


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on July 17, 2017, 02:53:41 PM
Time is running fast.... My Tiger Moth is not finished yet, but it looks like an airplane. There are some details that have to be done, but the first flight tests are near...
The wing has started to warp a bit, I have to try to remove it but it is a bit more complicated with two wings....

Any news on the other projects?

Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on July 18, 2017, 03:34:38 AM
Roman, that's lovely! I will get going on the Camel soon...Promise!

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on July 18, 2017, 07:20:39 AM
Roman, I'm wowed!  I love these kits... and the justice being done to the spirit of them.   :)

The kid got the Jodel for his birthday, and is keen to get cracking when he's at home with me for the second half of his summer hols.

Jon


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: DHnut on July 18, 2017, 05:09:34 PM
The Jodel I purchased at Barkston in May is ready for covering, the wings and tail were built in Fiji and the fuselage completed at home. It was a nice build with just a little cleaning up nibs and light sanding. One question I have is, why is leading edge a flat one not a 1/8 square that is so much easier when covering? I am sure there was some rational Andrew.
Ricky   


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on July 18, 2017, 05:51:01 PM
Hi Ricky,

I thought it was simpler to construct with the locational notches and ability to be completely flat on the board.  I guess it all boils down to the trade off between the odd wrinkle and an easily constructed wing.  My thought always was that a wrinkle looks bad, but doesn't stop the model flying, whilst a bend, bow, twist or a warp will.

I have had similar conversations regarding the tissue.  It has a limited wet strength, but it doesn't shrink aggressively. Again the reduced risk of warps and twist trumps the odd wrinkle.

Less of an issue - but an issue nevertheless, was that the brief from VMC was to do everything from 1/16" sheet...

Personally I have never found this type of wing to be difficult to cover, but I cut my teeth on the old Veron stuff which was a similar construction, so perhaps I have been conditioned to it  :o

I guess you could put some soft 1/16" square on the leading edge between each pair of ribs and sand it back -to help with the covering?

Andrew


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: DHnut on July 21, 2017, 10:56:57 PM
Andrew,
            Thanks for the explantion. I thought rationalisation of materials sizes was part of the reason, and also the reasoning behind the tissue also makes perfect sense as Esaki can be quite agressive when it shrinks. I think I have to rethink my method when covering this type of structure. One benefit of the deep leading edge is the abilty to resist collisions with chair and table leg an as you say an infill between ribs is an easy fix if I want more contact area. Today is covering day for the Jodel in a yellow and white scheme of a local aeroplane.
Ricky
 


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on July 22, 2017, 04:31:22 AM
Hi Ricky,

I have never had the tissue part company on the leading edge, my thought was that the in-fills would help prevent annoying wrinkles that may want to form at the leading edge between the ribs, more than providing additional bonding area, but that is a good idea too.  ;D

Table and chair legs are the scourge of the indoor flyer aren't they?  >:(

Any chance of some pictures?


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on July 23, 2017, 02:54:45 PM
Ricky, post some pictures, I am looking forward to see them. Pictures are always inspiring for me ;D

I did the hub caps with the de Havilland logo.
I first tried to draw them by hand, but then gave up after several attempts... It looked like from a first grader... I would even say from an untalented first grader :P
So I used the cutter...

I also did some physiotherapy to the wing to get rid of the warp. The front view looks good at the moment, the wings on both sides seem to have the same incident.
I am crossing my fingers, that it stays like this.
The weather was not ideal, but I wanted to try if it flies straight.
And it did... ;D Since it was a bit windy, I did not want to provoke some damage and stopped after taking some pictures.
It seems to fly nicely, I am looking forward to do some more test flights in calmer weather.

Next steps are the pilot and some rigging.

The weight as seen but without rubber is 26.2 gramms.

Roman



Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on July 23, 2017, 03:00:40 PM
That looks fantastic in the air Roman.  I wish I could take pictures that good!

I think that is much lighter than my prototype, and with all of that wing it should fly well.

The hub caps look well worth the effort...

Andrew



Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on July 25, 2017, 02:06:11 PM
I agree- that's looking wonderful, Roman!

Bit more progress on the SE5a. Fuselage now together, so all the main pieces are made. I've never built a kit where the pieces fit so well. It's more like putting together a plastic Airfix kit than a balsa one.
I'm still set on doing the blue tailed racing scheme. The consensus is that the rudder should probably be blue like the fin, but otherwise the profile shows what it will, hopefully, look like. I'm quite inclined to use the kit's brown tissue unless someone warns me off it. (I know that Andrews Darby and Sephton didn't quite see eye to eye on its quality at one stage!  :D)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on July 26, 2017, 12:59:19 AM
Pete, nice progress on you Se5a.
The tissue in the kit looked nice, but since I decided to do a  differen colour scheme, I did not use it.
I am interested in hearing how the kit tissue works for you.

Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on July 26, 2017, 02:42:15 AM
Looking good Pete.

The kit tissue is fine it shrinks ok and is reasonably light and in general the colour density is good.  BUT unlike Esaki It has little wet strength, so it has to be used dry.  I think this is what Andy didn't like about it (the lack of wet strength that is)

Because of this the best way to attach it is either the dope and thinners method, or glue stick and sealing the overlapping edges only with PVA. Ie not too much water around.

IIRC, I think Andy was testing the new deluxe products tissue paste using it which was obviously water based and the tissue broke up, leading him to his conclusion.  I think that the same would happen for any "domestic" tissue.

Nearly all of the models in the series pictured on the VMC website are covered with it...

I guess the best bet if you are unsure is to try some, the sheets are quite large so there is enough for a trial.

Andrew


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on July 26, 2017, 04:41:08 AM
Thanks, Andrew. That sounds promising as I've started using the glue stick method anyway on recent models. Do you think it'll still be okay to steam shrink with a kettle once on?


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on July 26, 2017, 05:21:09 AM
I just go full pelt with water from a sprayer, just give it long enough to go off (overnight is best)  I always do the fin and tail plane early doors, and once dope leave them between two heavy books until required.

The key thing is the combination of both the glue stick and PVA taking advantages of the characteristics of both.  What I mean by that is the glue stick provides most of the adhesion on the big surfaces and doesn't wet the tissue, but it isn't good on edges which the PVA is.

for the sake of completeness - at the risk of teaching you to suck eggs...

https://www.vintagemodelcompany.com/how-to-cover-your-model-with-tissue.html

Andrew


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on July 26, 2017, 05:39:18 AM
Cheers, Andrew. I took a long while to come round to gluestick covering (my initial unsuccessful forays were with a gluestick that wasn't slimy enough I think) and the combination of the stick but with PVA for the edges is still new to me, so no danger of any egg sucking grandmother scenerios here!

While I'm here, can I just re-recommend to anyone the photo instructions for this and other VMC kits (downloadable free on the VMC site). There is nothing wrong with the written instruction booklet in the box, but the photo version is so much easier to absorb I find!


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: billdennis747 on July 26, 2017, 05:47:07 AM
I have found that if you hold the switch down on an electric kettle to keep it boiling, it breaks!


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on July 26, 2017, 06:18:32 AM
That's why our kettle only has the stubby remnants of a switch left (although Carole doesn't actually know that's why it's broken). If you just leave the lid off the kettle though, it boils forever without the necessity to hold down the switch.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: billdennis747 on July 26, 2017, 07:08:47 AM
Yes but sometimes only a spout will do.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on July 26, 2017, 07:20:11 AM
Well there's always the old fashioned singing kettle on the hob option I suppose.

(It's almost as though modern kettles were designed without aeromodellers in mind at all.)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on July 26, 2017, 01:10:07 PM
With the cabane struts set using the very satisfying jig system it was time for a tentative mock-up. Not quite at the making aeroplane noises stage yet, but getting there. Noseblock next.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on July 27, 2017, 01:03:05 PM
The wheels have an option to make with either two solid circles plus tyre rings, or just one solid circle plus tyres. The comment on the instructions says that the thicker or thinner wheel decision will be "dictated by the scheme you are doing". Did some SE5s have fatter wheels then? Or is it really just about having two circles cross-grained for strength vs just one for lightness? The thinner version at least looks okay to me.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on July 27, 2017, 01:21:50 PM
Thinking about it; once the 'spoke' triangles are added the wheels will be plenty strong enough anyway.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on July 27, 2017, 02:07:02 PM
Funny that!  I saw your post, and was going to reply and had to take a call and by the time I got back you had figured it out...

The thing is that the balsa varies in thickness, so sometimes it looked to thin with the one disk if the stock was on the thin side, and too thick with two if it was a bit on the thicker side thus the addition of the extra disk and referral to the prototype (what "looks right") and the option given on the plan.

Personally I would use both discs sand the lamination thinner, so you get the best of both worlds...

 I was also about to comment that the "wedge" shape pieces make things strong enough, but you got there before me!  ;D



Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on July 27, 2017, 02:25:45 PM
Cheers Andrew- I knew there'd be a logical explanation!  ;D
(and I was forgetting about the smaller circle on the inside which means the wheel is still cross grained even without the extra layer)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on August 03, 2017, 04:25:02 PM
I've spent most of today preparing decals. Several hours on the computer with MS Paint and the photos of the subject eventually gave me something to work from. Don't know why it takes me so long.
The model's not covered yet, but I really like covering and don't much like making decals, so my plan is to get them out of the way now so that when it is covered I won't have that sinking feeling. I'll be all ready to bung them straight on.

I sprayed some white tissue white (acrylic) on its reverse side and made stencils to add the 26s with a pencil then Sharpie. A layer of acrylic varnish should seal them and I'll just stick them on with gluestick I think.

The fuselage letters (G-EAXT) will be cut from the same white tissue, using the paper version to cut through a few layers together. That's tomorrow's job, as following Roman's method I've gluesticked-the back of the tissue and left it drying overnight. The idea, he tells me,  is to use a lttle water on a brush to resoften the dry glue backing as they're positioned.

 Hope they turn out half as neat as yours, Roman!


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: DHnut on August 03, 2017, 07:45:57 PM
Andrew,
             A photo of the parts before covering. It really flew together. I am replacing the paper on the nose with balsa and have found a local aircraft for a yellow and white scheme. I will use airbrush ink to give a little substance to the tissue. I have a query on the covering. Do you start on the leading or trailing edge? The result on the woing was reasonable but I am not sure if starting on the trailing edge is the best solution.
Ricky     


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on August 04, 2017, 03:17:24 AM
Hi Ricky,

From the pictures did you join the wing tips to the wing before covering?  It makes for a better covering job IMO as the tissue doesn't tend to pull inwhat would be the end rib out of shape when it shrinks.

I can't remember what I wrote in the instructions but I would probably cover the main wing all in one go spanwise from dihedral break to dihedral break, underside first, then the top.

I am not sure what you mean about leading or trailing edge first, I would just apply glue stick obliquely to the leading edge, then flat along the dihedral break, then along the training edge.  I would cut the tissue around 1/2" too long to give me something to tug at.  On applying it to the wing, I would slit the tissue at the dihedral break each side to avoid it wrinkling up then I would tug and pull it all taught, both chord wise and span wise, before trimming the edges and sealing them with PVA.

I mentioned to Hadi at VMC that I should do a video of covering a wing at some point, it would probably be much clearer than my explaination above!

Andrew



Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on August 04, 2017, 03:18:05 AM
Pete, looking good. I am sure it will work. Looking forward to see the result.

Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on August 04, 2017, 03:42:25 AM
Ricky, when I covered mine it was one piece, tip to tip on the underside and 3 pieces for the top. I had no trouble, but I made sure most of the adhesive was under the high point of the LE, so none could sneak between the noses of the ribs and cause wrinkles.

Cheers,

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: DHnut on August 04, 2017, 06:24:46 AM
Thanks for the feedback Andrew and Dan. I covered after I had assembled the wing and started with the centre section and tips on the bottom. Then the centre section on the top starting on the trailing edge using non shrinking dope ( Randolf thinned 50% ). You have aswered my question Andrew as you start on the leading edge. Finally the tip as seperate pieces. It is all pinned down at the moment. More photos to follow. I do like your tail structures as they are much more robust and will resist warps. Strength and stifness are often confused when it comes to light structures. I hope you are enjoying your holiday. I was lucky enough to have a 6 week canal holiday that started in Le Harve and finished in Amsterdam via Paris and the Moselle through some very historic and beautiful country.       
Ricky


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on August 04, 2017, 07:14:20 AM
Thanks Dan, a good point about the glue "sneaking in" is suppose that's a plus for using the glue stick.

Ricky, I think I know what you mean now but with me it all happens rather in one go, ie I cover the entire structure with glue stick in one hit, then the tissue goes on top in doing everything in one action, sort of tugging it in position as required. It is sometimes hard to describe something one does instintictively!

I reckon you have it well sussed, but a few folks have asked VMC for a video so I guess it will help others and even myself - since I seem to have even confused myself with the description of what I do!  :D

Yes I love France, we holiday here most years, the canals are very impresive, far larger than the ones in the UK.  There is an old lock just 20 yards from my house near Derby, but the section is filled in.  They keep trying to raise the money and interest to open it up again, but I don't think it will ever happen...

We went over the border on Wednesday, and went up the longest cable car in Germany.  All I could think of on the journey up was "Where Eagles Dare" I half expected to find the Schloss Adler at the top!

We have a long drive over to the Loire tommorow for our second week...

Cheers all

Andrew



Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on August 05, 2017, 03:03:10 PM
Glad you liked the Alsace- I think we'll certainly go back at some point. Enjoy Pt 2 of your hol.

SE5 letters all cut out and I'll soon be ready to start covering. I've just ordered some Eze Dope which I've never used before. On tissue finished (ie non colour-sprayed) models I started off with banana oil but found I like the more consistent tautness you get with ordinary non-shrinking dope. But one thing I did like about banana oil is that it doesn't make the tissue go as transparent as ordinary dope does. How does Eze Dope compare in that regard I wonder?


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on August 06, 2017, 04:36:12 AM
The Ezedope leaves a sheen, but not particicularly transparent IIRC.  I have used it on the VMC tissue, with good results, although I still prefer to use banana oil just becuase that's what I have always done.  The one advantage Ezedope does have is that it doesn't let the tissue go slack in humid or damp conditions...

Shrink with a 5% solution, in your normal sprayer thingy, this gives the tissue sufficient wet strength to take the Ezedope as it is water based and it will just break up if you don't.

What is important is that you brush it out, leaving it on the surface will leave patches which them turn sort of chalky looking.  Apparently the best thing to use is one of those "brushes" which is just an angled piece of sponge - but I haven't tried them myself...

Andrew


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on August 06, 2017, 05:12:42 AM
Thanks, Andrew. I'll give it a go, but on an experimental frame first I think. I quite like the sheen you get on the Ezedoped models I've seen- Monz's DVII for instance.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on August 06, 2017, 11:39:28 AM
Hi Pete, if you decide to try those sponge brushes then will you let us know how you get on with them?  I fact let us know how you get on either way..  ;D

Andrew


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on August 08, 2017, 08:11:45 PM
Complete change of plan for me! After being enthused by the Hurricane pics in the VMC Mustang thread, I've just bought a Hurri kit. I plan on doing the civil air racer version that flew in the King's Cup postwar. I'm not sure without checking, but I think this AC went on to the BBMF. No doubt someone better informed can fill me in...

Cheers,

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Snaky Stringer on August 09, 2017, 05:56:36 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Hurricane_PZ865

This should answer your question.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on August 09, 2017, 06:40:38 AM
Thanks! I thought so, but couldn't remember where I'd read it.

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on August 09, 2017, 07:01:02 PM
Hurri started! Just the tailplane so far...

Back soon!

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on August 10, 2017, 11:38:20 AM
SE5 covering started at last...
Step 1. Cover the fin and rudder with brown tissue both sides.
Step 2. Realise that in my chosen scheme I should have covered this part blue.
Step 3. Remove brown tissue.
Step 4. Decide to start with the tailplane instead.
Step 5. Cover tailplane with brown tissue, both sides.
Step 6. Realise only the top should have been brown.
Step 7. Remove underside tissue from tailplane.

Etc. etc. etc.

Pictures will follow when I've got something non-cocked up to show. Could be a while yet...


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on August 15, 2017, 01:36:18 AM
Pete, I was smiling when I read your covering report ;D Dont understand me wrong, I am not spitful (not sure if this is realy the right word... ::))
I was smiling because it sounds like one of my own covering sessions. I am very glad, that I am not allone in this respect ;)

Normally nobody sees it, since you can decide what you want to post in the forum. Most projects seems to evolve flawles and as planed. As a newbie, it can be frustrating to see all those neat and clean builds while your own project seems to jump from mishap to mishap....

I appreciate your honest post :D Dont worry, you are not allone ;D


Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: OZPAF on August 15, 2017, 02:13:08 AM
I agree with Roman. it's probably more common than you think. I'm still at the stage of trying eliminate fuse twists. Covering problems are still to be met and faced :)

John


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: DHnut on August 19, 2017, 04:45:11 AM
The Jodel is still moving as shown in the attached photo. I substituted 1/32" wood for the note paper and the wheels will be bushed with Aluminium tube. I am debating whether to spray the tissue with ink to give a little body to the tissue colour. 
Ricky


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on August 20, 2017, 08:52:29 AM
Jodel's looking very nice, Ricky.

Thanks for the support, Roman and John. Yes, I am probably not alone in making mess-ups during the construction process but I think I might be getting to new levels of gormlessness with this one.
Having finally got the tailplane covered in brown on top and plain tissue underneath, the next step was to realise that it should in fact be blue on both sides, like the rudder. So off comes the tissue again, and on goes the 'Cambridge blue'.
So, the tailplane's topside has now been covered twice, and the bottom three times (in three different colours). Is this a record for an unfinished model?  ;D
I have no excuse as I have a colour photo of Mike Kelsey's model (of the same aircraft) on the bench beside me as a reference, plus all the photos of the original aircraft that I have gathered, and even a published colour profile- all of which show the pale blue tail clearly.

In a couple of weeks I shall be returning to work; once again, supposedly, teaching children to engage their young brains with the challenging school curriculum. God help them!


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on August 20, 2017, 11:15:15 AM
Ricky, nice Jodel. I also prefere thin balsa over paper parts. Not sure about the weight, but it's easier to make changes or sand it to a smooth fit.
Some colour could look nice on the white paper. Looking forward to hear about your decision.

Pete, good to hear that your Se5a is on its way. It's exciting to see what colours your Se5a will have at the end ;D
You still have summer holidays in the UK? Enjoy it!

Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on August 21, 2017, 08:22:49 AM
Well the tissue is on and hopefully won't be coming off again any time soon. I'm pleased with the colour of the 'Cambridge blue' which was a single small sheet I had which I think must have been unused from some previous kit. I'll probably shrink it all with a 5% Ezedope/water solution as recommended by Andrew, and then Ezedope applied with a sponge brush as he suggests. First though I'm going to experiment with a couple of old wing panels I've already covered in the same tissue.
I might try and get this finished for Peterborough Flying Aces on Sept 3rd.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on August 21, 2017, 08:31:50 AM
I also painted the noseblock and cabane with acrylics mixed to match the tissue, and have tissue-covered the paper fuselage parts (as per plan except that I used manilla envelope paper rather than white to give a better slightly match to the balsa).


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on August 21, 2017, 02:11:31 PM
The Kid has now just started on his Jodel.

Early days - reading instructions, and finding, cutting out and de-nibbing first parts.
Will be going for standard kit colour scheme and markings.

Dad keeping a watchful eye, but this one is his!
Expect, slow, sporadic, gradual - but hopefully steady - progress.

:)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on August 21, 2017, 03:14:16 PM
....tissue-covered the paper fuselage parts (as per plan except that I used manilla envelope paper rather than white to give a better slightly match to the balsa).

I do that on my models often too, the cheap "poor quality" ones are quite thin and light...

Jon, the Jodel paper parts are on the VMC website, this is handy for the Jodel as only a "half pattern" along the centre line for the paper cowl is shown on the plan (because of a lack of space!). But it is full sized in the downloadable patterns sheet.

Andrew


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on August 21, 2017, 07:18:40 PM
The first test panel experiment went okay: that is the spraying on of the 5% Ezedope solution for initial tautening. So, I bit the bullet and sprayed the SE5 parts too. Only one fluff so far... I put my thumb through one bit of the tailplane. The blue tissue has even worse wet stength than the kit's brown stuff it seems. Not to worry; I just recovered that half of the tailplane side (so that possibly now makes FOUR covering attempts for that section!)

Parts are now pinned down and drying overnight. Dare I look in the morning?


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on August 22, 2017, 01:10:25 AM
Pete, coming along nicely. Sporty goal to finish it until Sept 3rd. At least it would be for me ;D

Great to see the Jodel started, good idea to start with reading of the instructions. I also should do this more... ::)
Looking forward to see progress on this one, no matter how slow, most important is, that it will bee finished at all. Keep the pics coming...
By the way, the Jodel Box seems to have a completely different shape than the other kit's I have seen :)

Roman



Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on August 22, 2017, 01:57:04 AM
Thanks for the cowling link Andrew.  He says also that he'd like to keep the original plan pristine and stick it on his bedroom wall, so we'll go to the library after Judo to photocopy it in parts onto A3 paper - fuselage, wings etc.  Given the choice then of cellophane or candle-wax on the joint areas, he knows his mind and wants to do wax.

Roman, the Jodel box hinges open from the top, rather than from the ends like our earlier VMC models, and has a printed slide-on wrapper on glossy paper.  The only departure from its standard rectilinear form is that it got biffed a bit in the post  :o  but contents happily unaffected!

Pete, sorry to hear about your bout of Tailplanitis, but love the SE5a's colour scheme.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on August 22, 2017, 04:11:45 AM
Read the instructions first?! Keep the plan pristine?! Just what kind of monster have you spawned?!  ;D
Seriously though, it looks like another young Kit Scale contender is on the rise...

Very pleased this morning, with the way the water/Ezedope solution has shrunk the tissue on my SE5 . There are no wrinkles to speak of- something I'm not used to saying! Stronger Ezedope solution to follow, hopefully also without disaster.

Roman, I'm trying to emulate your high finishing standards so can I ask you about lettering again. I'm now fairly clear on the process by which you make and attach the decals (link to Roman's method: http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=585.msg128344#msg128344 )
but do you apply the letters before doping the model and then dope the whole thing together? Or do you dope the main covering and then apply the letters to the dope-finished surface? And if you DO add the letters last, once they are on, do you then dope over them or apply any sort of fix? I'm thinking maybe I won't, as I gave the decal tissue a layer of acrylic varnish before even cutting them out, but I'm slightly worried that they'll peel off when damp if they're efectively only glue-sticked on.
Thanks!
Pete


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on August 23, 2017, 06:35:04 AM
Here are the results of the Ezedoped parts, all applied as directed (5% dope/water solution sprayed on for initial shrinkage, then 30% dope solution applied with a foam rubber 'brush'). Many thanks to Andrew, Scigs and others who, through their trials, pioneered the correct use of Ezedope to make it a usable product.

I did try to keep the dope as thinly spread and unpuddled as possible. The sponge brush was very useful for soaking up excess as I went. There are still a few lightish little streaks left after drying, and I had to add a little patch to the wing where the top and bottom covering touched. I should probably have let each side dry seperately. It does all go very baggy for both applications but the tissue held and I'm pleased with the results. I like the gentle sheen and tautness,  and it did what I wanted it to do, which was to leave the tissue a lot less transparent than with ordinary dope.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on August 23, 2017, 06:44:31 AM
Cheers for that report on Ezedope Pete.  I like the fact that it produces a more opaque surface... less laser marks to sand off first!  ;D

As the Kid has taken firm control of making his own Jodel, I'm inclined to suggest to him we go down the Ezedope route - so I can demonstrate first, but then leave him to it without worrying about normal dope burning Swiss cheese holes in his developing brain!


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on August 23, 2017, 06:51:05 AM
I still sanded off the laser marks as much as I could. Good point about the the Ezedope addling your lad's brain less (too late for me of course) although I have to say it's certainly not as Eze to apply as normal dope. Perhaps they should rename it Trikkidope or something. And I don't really know why it's not sold in the 30/70 solution which works.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on August 23, 2017, 06:59:28 AM
Kid's now got the bit between his teeth!  He was being a bit sparing on the aliphatic glue, until I explained that a tad more won't add too much weight - but too little could result in weak joints that would be a nightmare to beef-up or repair after covering.

We've also decorated the wall above his modelling desk, including two piccies of the full size G-OLEM found online.  Interestingly, one version shows this Jodel wearing pants and spats - an earlier incarnation?

He wants to know if he can compete with the finished model....

 :D


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on August 23, 2017, 07:59:04 AM
Looking good chaps.

I think I recall Scigs calling Ezedope "a beast" and I think he is right!

I think Ezedope is a bit of a misnomer, probably "less smelly dope" or "acrylic dope", it is certainly less Eze than dope but does offer some advantages.  i also wonder about the 70/20 thing, and also why the jar is so large, you could certainly have one a 1/4 of the size and it still do a number of models and it would be cheaper in the post.

Dope never me any harm - he said twitching gently...

Jon, from my research the Jodel developed the spats later, I chose the early version to keep things simple.

Andrew



Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: TheLurker on August 23, 2017, 02:08:50 PM
...and then Ezedope applied with a sponge brush as he suggests.
Please excuse me butting in...

I tried the sponge brush (pack of three from Rymans under a fiver) approach on one of the lower wings on my Camel having used a brush on the last build.  *Makes wavy hand gesture*. Was OKish, but went back to using my best quality soft 1/2" brush.  Don't use a cheap brush. Mine cost about 8 quid from an artists' supply shop.  

The trick, if there is one, is to get just enough on the brush for a couple or four strokes.  Wet the brush in the 30% sol'n then dab it on paper towel to take off the excess then apply in || lines from LE/TE (or t'other way about) on wings and across the shortest sides of other panels.  Given the bottle is so large the losses to the paper towel, especially on a small model are negligible.

The sponge brush technique is pretty widely recommended for EzeDope so it may be that there are better quality sponge brushes than those I got from Rymans which make all the difference to the result.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on August 24, 2017, 07:28:15 AM
My foam brush was very cheap from 'The Works'; just a piece of ordinary foam rubber on a stick. I'm happy the results of it on the main covering, but am not quite so happy with the decals which had another layer of Ezedope once fixed on with water and gluestick. The trouble is that everything quickly goes a bit baggy again with water, so I didn't really have a taut surface to fix to. I may try and smooth out the wrinkles on the big circles a bit more, or just live with them. Anyway, they're on! I'm nearly ready to nail this beast together so here's a pic of the parts...


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on August 24, 2017, 02:40:09 PM
Pete, sorry for the late reply...
I apply the letters after doping the wing or fuselage. After the letters in place, I add one more layer of dope just over the characters to stick better to the wing / fuselage,
Your model looks very good, very nice finishing job!

Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on August 24, 2017, 04:01:05 PM
Thanks, Roman- that's what I did anyway, albeit with Ezedope. The wing decals, after a bit more water brushed on here and there, seem to be settling down a bit now and I'm a bit happier. Your 'glue stick re-activated with water' method was very easy and I would never have thought of it, so big thanks!

I'm really enjoying this last phase of construction as it all comes together and starts to look the part. The four card pieces which comprise the forward fuselage's topside were a delight to put on because they, like everything else in this kit, fitted so perfectly. Exhaust pipes and rocker covers also now on. The kit-recommended finish represents the Shuttleworth example, but for my own satisfaction I am making just a few minor changes to keep it in line with G-EAXT. For instance, the exhaust pipes are a little bit shorter on mine. Also, mine will need some cockpit coaming so that's the next job (unlike the Shuttleworth SE5a, whose cockpit has no coaming but a more easily modelled deadly sharp edge. Seems a bit surprising really, but there it is.)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on August 24, 2017, 04:52:44 PM
Having failed to persuade The Lurker to include his nice Camel in this cook-up, here's a link to its appearances in the other thread (and one of his photos for good measure!)
http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=11333.1100


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on August 26, 2017, 01:45:24 PM
Well, talking of Biggles (which the Kid has recently voraciously read although his dad somehow missed out on in the 70s), on our first day of a short holiday on the East Coast, with the Woman pottering around a girlie shop and us in a craft centre, nestled amongst pots and hand-made coasters and carved wildfowl from China, what did we come across...?

...a very nice selection of VMC's Darby-designed kits!  :D

And so, unable to resist, the choice, to be built for CO2, came down to a Tiggie or a Camel.  I reckoned on the Tiggie, but the Kid reasoned that the short nose movement of the Camel would be ideal for CO2, and despite my knowing that the Camel would be much harder to get flying properly, we went for the Biggles option!

Its currently doubled-bagged so the Woman knows nothing about it, but I might just have to whip the plans out for a sneak preview!  ;D


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on August 26, 2017, 04:19:05 PM
Well done. I've got one in the wings too (so to speak). We may have to have a cookup just for Camels at some point.

Incidentally, talking of Biggles' Camel- can anyone explain something which has long confused me:
 When Biggles gets out of his aeroplane after a sortie, W. E. Johns says that he sits on "the hump of his Camel" before jumping down. Well, either W. E. Johns thought the hump meant the turtle deck behind the cockpit, or else Biggles was somehow contorting himself to sit on what everyone else considers to be the Camel's hump (ie. the fairing over the guns' breeches)!

Perhaps I should get out more.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on August 27, 2017, 02:47:45 AM
Well done. I've got one in the wings too (so to speak). We may have to have a cookup just for Camels at some point.

[... Biggles Camel hump confusion... ]

Perhaps I should get out more.

No need to get out more Pete.  Luckily I've just noticed that a hilariously funny series of novels (The Bandy Papers) by Donald Jack of a Camel pilot which I first read in the 1970s have just been republished:  'Three Cheers for Me', 'That's Me in the Middle' and 'Its Me Again'.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Three-Cheers-Me-Bandy-Papers/dp/1911440454/ref=pd_sim_14_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=KEKEAXG2QER9R9KAE632 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Three-Cheers-Me-Bandy-Papers/dp/1911440454/ref=pd_sim_14_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=KEKEAXG2QER9R9KAE632)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on August 27, 2017, 03:33:47 AM
Hadn't heard of those- might well give them a go. Thanks!
(May have to stay in more!)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: TheLurker on August 27, 2017, 04:27:42 AM
Quote from: Jack Plane
...and despite my knowing that the Camel would be much harder to get flying properly...
I think you might be pleasantly surprised with this one.  I've been trimming mine off and on this last day or so and, for one of my builds, I think it's going very well indeed.  One of the very early trimming flights was almost bang on, gob-smackingly, perfect after which things have reverted to normal.  Hey ho, t'was ever thus. :)

Here's a couple of trimming flights from last night.  As you'd expect quite a bit of stall / recovery and short duration.  I could have tinkered with the trim a bit more but my camera operator, MrsLurker, was threatening mutiny and the light was fading very fast so the choice was between getting some footage and sorting out the trim.   I chose getting some footage cos camera operators are hard to get and I thought it might be of passing interest hereabouts.   :)

Wind speed           0MPH.  (Total utter dead flat calm)
Motor wind count.  Somewhere around about 70 odd - I wasn't counting tsk, tsk

https://www.flickr.com/photos/41392773@N02/36684819451/in/album-72157683218588084/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/41392773@N02/36653834362/in/album-72157683218588084/

Interesting to note that I was getting better flights on Friday afternoon with a very, very light breeze rather than last night's flat calm on the same sort of motor wind count.  I expect I was getting extra initial lift from breeze.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: TheLurker on August 28, 2017, 04:05:31 PM
Some Camel trimming notes.  Mainly for Pete F's info. not sure if it'll be any help for the CO2 variant Jack P's planning.

Wind speed 0MPH
Motor turns ~ 120 (lost count - talking to MrsLurker)
Ballast 10g + additional blu-tack as attachment.  Haven't weighed it yet but it's only going to be a gramme or two.
Downthrust as attachment
Flight video at URL below. Not the best flight, but repeatable and reasonably representative on that sort of turn count.

FWIW the Camel is proving far, far easier to trim than a recent, profile, rubber model I built.

If this isn't the right thread please tell me to sling my hook.
Chr$
Lurk


https://www.flickr.com/photos/41392773@N02/36041754434/in/album-72157683218588084/

P.S  Ignore the capering idiot in the hat.  He always turns up, no idea who he is. :D


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on August 29, 2017, 02:40:50 AM

Motor turns ~ 120...If this isn't the right thread please tell me to sling my hook...  P.S  Ignore the capering idiot in the hat.  He always turns up, no idea who he is. :D


I've got the same capering idiot hat, but a different man-bag!   :o

Until someone starts a specific VMC Camel thread, then this is exactly the right thread.

Re trimming data, you now need to start putting on several hundreds of turns on a longer lubricated motor, dealing with any initial torque-burst etc.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: DHnut on August 30, 2017, 04:51:45 AM
Andrew,
           The Jodel is ready to be trimmed. A photo is attached of the model complete with Peck pilots and I have used ZK-JSC for a colour scheme. The weight came out at 25.5 grms . At our indoor meeting on Monday I gave it a couple of test glides, but stopped as I need to get it over long grass to get the glide sorted out. My thoughts on rubbe is to use about one loop of 0.150" given the light weight.
Esaki tissue was used to cover the model, and after water shrinking there were two coats of very thin Randolf dope to seal the tissue.
I like the way the tail is constructed as the notches give a fixed joint and will reduce the chance of a warp. also the fixing for the undercarriage is neat and strong. The wheels are balsa and I will use magnets to hold the nose plug in as there will need to be some ballast in the nose.
I really enjoyed the build.
Ricky       


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on August 30, 2017, 06:19:03 AM
Great Stuff.  I love the pilots, they are very much right for the spirit of these models - fun to build and to bring about a grin when flown!  I think that the large canopy probably deserves a couple of faces so it doesn't look so empty, it is very big, I think that Mike Stuart suggested that and I think he is right.

Pleased that you enjoyed it.  It means a lot to me when folks have fun with them  ;D

Andrew


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on August 30, 2017, 06:21:08 AM

Pleased that you enjoyed it.  It means a lot to me when folks have fun with them  ;D


And we're so happy for you too!   :D


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on September 04, 2017, 12:57:44 PM
Very nice Jodel, Ricky. Looks just right.

My boy is home from hospital and doing well, so I can now crack on with finishing off the SE5. Coaming added and a few token dashboard instruments which will hopefully count as the "small details" "added if desired" which Andrew has cunningly written on the plan to thwart zealous Kit Scale judges looking to give penalties (I'm kidding- they do a great job!)
 
I'll do the pilot next. He'll be based on a photo of the real one- a chap named Muir. Should be slightly easier to fit him in place before the top wing goes on.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on September 04, 2017, 01:22:59 PM
This is Muir. He finished second in the 1921 race, but presumably wore a flying helmet so ear drag wasn't a factor...


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: F F modeller on September 04, 2017, 01:48:00 PM
Is it Frank?  ;)

(he would only been one year old, joking aside ... but was in the RAF)

Please model him with his head facing down .... he must have gained an advantage in this way? ....


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on September 04, 2017, 01:50:48 PM
Ricky, that looks super!

The Kid and I look forward to hearing more about indoor trimming.   :D  :D


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: F F modeller on September 04, 2017, 02:00:47 PM
Forgot to say .... all the models looking good in this thread.
Thought I had won a VMC kit in the raffle at Peterborough yesterday ... right number ticket ... wrong colour  :(


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: faif2d on September 04, 2017, 02:03:10 PM
Pete very good news about your boy.  One never knows when something like that can go wrong, glad that he came out OK.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on September 04, 2017, 02:17:50 PM
Pete very good news about your boy.  One never knows when something like that can go wrong, glad that he came out OK.
Thanks!

Russ, did you take any pics at Peterborough yesterday? I did drop a big hint on the went flying thread last night. I'm curious to know how many Elves there were too, for the Aeromodeller record attempt photo. Would certainly have brought mine if circs had allowed.
Sorry, I'm diverting this thread, but I'll bring it back on track shortly with a very poor attempt at pilot carving. Never mind Muir's ears, I'll be lucky if he has anything recognisable as a head. 1/20 scale is just too small for me to get any proper features into blue foam. Richard Crossley must have sold his soul to Satan or something.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: F F modeller on September 04, 2017, 03:13:27 PM
Pete,
Yes, I guessed that it would be hard for you to attend.
Lots of Elves ... lots of Elves flying very well too.
I was judging 'prop driven' scale on the day .... slow for entries for a start, but I had to wait. I did get a bit of a rush from 2.00pm onwards.
It meant that the camera stayed in the car again  :(
PMFC Mick Page was taking lots of photos and it was good to see Andrew Boddington there too.
I would say to keep a watch on the PMFC website ... and the Aeromodeller!

I think Richard Crossley is more 'saint' material?! I leave the suitable names to others!

(Glad to hear that your lad is recovering well ... we had a similar worry with my daughter-in-law recently.
Very close to the situation of your son, but operated on at over seven months pregnant. Thankfully all doing well now.)


 


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: TheLurker on September 04, 2017, 03:41:43 PM
Looks good Pete.  None of that cheating with printed dashboards for you I see.  You've done your instrument panel properly.  Chapeau.

Lurk.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on September 04, 2017, 04:19:03 PM
...Lots of Elves ... lots of Elves flying very well too....
PMFC Mick Page was taking lots of photos and it was good to see Andrew Boddington there too.
I would say to keep a watch on the PMFC website ... and the Aeromodeller!

Cheers, Russ. Yes, very good to hear that Andrew B was there.  I look in on the Peterborough website most days so will look forward to Mick Page's pics. Mind you, I always find it a  bittersweet experience looking at photos and reports of events I wanted to be at and wasn't. I do like seeing the other models, but don't like being reminded of what I missed!  

Ah well, plenty still to look forward too.

(Lurks, thanks but it's only a 'proper' instrument panel so long as you don't look at any real SE5 cockpit photos!)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: DHnut on September 04, 2017, 07:26:23 PM
Thank you all for the kind words. Trimming has started with the addition of 1.5 gm of nose weight and I am using a 12" loop of 0.170 rubber as a starting point. A test glide on the back lawn sans motor look looked promising so it will off to local park for the next stage. We have an indoor meeting at Morrinsville on the 8 October in a double basket court sized hall so I hope to flt it their. Also a recovered Veron Comper should be ready as well. I have taken the old painted tissue off and replaced it with dark blue Esaki. I must address thecomper pilot issue as only a head is needed.
Ricky


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on September 05, 2017, 03:52:47 PM
Sorry, I'm diverting this thread, but I'll bring it back on track shortly with a very poor attempt at pilot carving...

Pilot as promised, although in the event I surpassed myself. Apart from maybe the nose, every feature of his carefully carved face is an exact likeness of the real R K Muir. It's probably even better than Richard Crossley could have done. Unfortunately, I took a photo as I started but then forgot to take another until I'd covered most of my amazingly skillful handiwork with goggles and scarf so you'll have to take my word for it.

(The scarf, btw, is in authentic St Catharine's colours, which was Muir's college at Cambridge.)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: F F modeller on September 05, 2017, 04:18:29 PM
Hidden behind those goggles and that scarf, he looks .... er ... a little demuir .....


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Crabby on September 05, 2017, 04:25:09 PM
Pete great color how did you hit that? As for the pilot, that's a nose I like to have full of nickels!


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on September 06, 2017, 07:43:43 AM
Thanks, Crabby. If you mean the brown tissue, then it's the stuff which comes with the kit.

Top wing on (very satisfyingly, it it fitted perfectly onto the cabane struts due to them having perfectly positioned with their jigs earlier on). Once the glue dries, I'll add the lower wings using their pre-made jigs. All very straightforward so far.

Meanwhile, I'm finishing off the nose block. I'm using the supplied black prop which I've now painted. The supplied propshaft, however, has a round hook which I'm inclined to swap for the diamond hooked shaft shown. Also, on the plan there is no suggestion to add a washer or bead behind the prop. Usually I put a bead here, which adds another 1/8" or so to the nose (and possibly reduces friction?). Is there any reason not to do this in this case?


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on September 06, 2017, 10:54:22 AM
No reason at all, I just don't bother.

My view is that as the prop has a sort of ball end and is low friction plastic anyhow.  If you had a carved wooden one you would definitely need the bead to provide a suitable contact surface.  I do drop some castor oil on the parts though, that really does noticeably help things run better.

I suppose a good side effect is pushing the prop further out to reduce the nose-weight a bit, at the expense of maybe some more "shaft wobble"?

Andrew


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on September 06, 2017, 11:27:02 AM
It's just habit really, but I'll probably leave the bead off then as it doesn't exactly add to the scale appearance. Am I right though, in thinking my diamond hook centres the motor better than the supplied round one?


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on September 06, 2017, 11:48:36 AM
I've used both and haven't really had a problem that I have noticed, but then again I'm not too fussed about cranking in high winds.  I guess an S hook is the best.

The best round ended ones I have used are the Guillow's ones, the wire is very hard and very strong....


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on September 06, 2017, 12:18:29 PM
Thanks. Perhaps I'll just go with the kit bits then and stop worrying. It's not as though I can't change it later.

Wings are now all on. You may be able to spot a cut at the bottom of one of the jigs where I had to split and then repair it. This is because when fitting the left wing I ignored the instruction NOT to glue in the interplane struts until the jigs had been removed. "Why not?" I thought, "I'll just glue everything at once and be done with it."

Because then the inside jig will then be trapped forever, that's why not!  :-[


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on September 06, 2017, 01:26:56 PM
Funny you should mention this ATM.  I'm just drafting up the Tripehound plan.  With the inter plane struts passing through the middle wing you have no option to trap the jig and cut it off!

Therefore there are parts for three jigs on the sheets...

The best bet if you do trap it by accident is to cut the strip, then remake it  with fresh strip lining everything back up on the plan

Andrew


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: TheLurker on September 06, 2017, 01:58:43 PM
It's looking really good Pete.  Can't be far off ready to test.  Have you got an indoor space large enough for trimming flights or are you going to be stuck waiting for a window in the weather?


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on September 06, 2017, 04:44:00 PM
I think I got away with the jig repair. I'll know next time! Trimming will probably be indoors, but possibly outdoors depending on when I get the first chance. I plan to maybe get over to Rochdale a few times (where the ex-Clayton members are now meeting) or there's always Nijmegen to which I hope to bring it!
Anyway, it's now about done so here are a few pics. Weight as seen (ie without rubber, or any added nose weight) is 31g. This whole kit has been a joy to build.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Tim Horne on September 06, 2017, 05:20:38 PM
That looks very good Pete, and I didn't know that Frank Muir was an SE5 pilot! Looks just like him :). The prop looks very good, especially in the last pic.
I went to Rochdale last Sunday for the first "Norwind" meeting and can report that the venue is very good. A bit larger than Clayton Green; definitely higher though it still has an ironwork roof structure, and a lot brighter.
Looking forward to seeing the SE5 flying.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on September 06, 2017, 05:21:11 PM
Looks great Pete, and should fly well at that weight.

Andrew


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: skyraider on September 06, 2017, 07:34:59 PM
Knock out job, Pete!  I hope trimming will be a breeze.
With those large wings it should be a stable floater. Looking
forward to your flight results.

Skyraider


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on September 06, 2017, 08:09:19 PM
I would usually use Teflon washers. They seem more friction-free than the beads I've used in the past.

Cheers,

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on September 06, 2017, 08:12:04 PM
That looks fab, Pete!!

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: billdennis747 on September 07, 2017, 03:43:55 AM
I have a habit of drilling the noseblock to include my best-guess down and sidethrust, and a bead or similar stops the prop hitting. This happened on my SE
Bill


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: F F modeller on September 07, 2017, 04:58:58 AM
Great job Pete  :)

I use brass or teflon washers .... but as Bill says, the bead will probably help with this model. The prop was catching on my Aerographics SE5 too.



Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: billdennis747 on September 07, 2017, 05:25:41 AM
Are you going to rig it Pete?


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on September 07, 2017, 05:30:48 AM
Are you going to rig it Pete?

I was just about to ask the same question!

Looks really super Pete... and the absence of the Vickers and Lewis guns emphasises the SE's fine lines.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on September 07, 2017, 07:20:08 AM
Thank you, all. I was thinking of keeping it nice and simple and NOT rigging it, but will listen to arguments either way. :)

I've forgone the bead for now, but may well put it on if the prop starts hitting. I wondered about re-drilling for thrust angles, but thought I'd better at least try it as is first, especially as Andrew does test his designs before they go into production!
I have carved out a couple of lead-holding niches on the back of the nose block though.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: billdennis747 on September 07, 2017, 08:19:24 AM
Thank you, all. I was thinking of keeping it nice and simple and NOT rigging it, but will listen to arguments either way. :)

Rigging it will make it very much stronger. Bait bayonets and 2lb fishing line crimped with fine aluminium tubing. If the centre section breaks it is hard to put it back together. The struts going down to the fuselage bottom are, in my opinion, stronger in the KK version.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on September 07, 2017, 10:18:35 AM
Tempting. What about the drag penalty in what is already not a very light or streamlined model?


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on September 07, 2017, 11:41:48 AM
Tempting. What about the drag penalty in what is already not a very light or streamlined model?
And I must admit I was rather looking forward to not bothering to rig it, with the excuse that an unrigged state is in keeping with it being a fairly simple Kit Scale model. The strut attachments don't feel weak, sturdily fitted into their slots as they are. Of course it only takes one argument with a chair leg, I know...


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on September 07, 2017, 12:53:49 PM
Not sure how the rigging will help in an argument with a chair leg, and that is likely to be the way it will get crocked indoors... (As we all know  :'(). The note is on the plan so the choice is yours either way so I guess you shouldn't be penalised with or without it.  That was my intention in any case.

My SE prop did not hit - and by some margin, by design there is already 3 degrees of down on it, and provision for a further 6-7 degrees at a pinch with the standard prop including a bit of prop wobble.   Bill did you fit both parts NB1a which push the nosebutton out?

Andrew


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: TheLurker on September 07, 2017, 02:22:31 PM
She looks the business Pete.  Hope the trimming proves easy.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on September 07, 2017, 03:34:15 PM
Thanks! I'm still inclined to leave the rigging off, but might change my mind. Roman, will your Tiger Moth be rigged?


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on September 09, 2017, 10:35:56 AM
Okay, after a lot humming and hah-ing, Bill's niggling words, "Are you going to rig it?" finally cracked me. I compromised though and just added a few threads between the wings rather than going the whole hog. I hate doing rigging (as you might have guessed) but am glad I did as it does look better I think. I used ordinary grey thread and Dan's method of cut off fish hooks.,

Apologies for a rather similar set of photos to the last lot then, although they're taken in daylight this time, which I think helps too...


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on September 11, 2017, 01:09:12 AM
Pete, what a neat Se5a! She looks great, I hope that you take it to Nijmegen? I would love to see it in real :)

I thought to do the rigging on my Moth. But have not started yet... I need to find a quiet moment to do it. I try to do it without any swearing ::)
I am also still thinking about making a pilot. I have the pilot from my chilton, but maybe it is time for a new one.
I am not realy ready for Nijmegen, but hey... it makes it more interesting.... I need some pressure to gain momentum...

Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on September 11, 2017, 03:25:13 AM
Thanks Roman. I'm glad you're rigging the Tiggie. If you'd said, "No, I'm leaving off the rigging as that's more in keeping with the style of the kit" I would NOT have been pleased!  ;D

Of course I'm still wondering if I should add more rigging to the SE5; that's one of the reasons I hate it: it's never-ending and unless you do every last wire then you never know where to stop!
I shall look forward to your pilot. Make sure you don't put a big scarf on him so we can see all of his deftly carved features. Also, goggles up please so that the fine details of his eyes and eye lashes etc. are completely apparent.

 I shall certainly be bringing the SE to Nijmegen. Not sure how trimmed it will be. It's raining here just now and windy so, when you've got a minute, the usual order of glorious Swiss weather would be appreciated.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on September 11, 2017, 03:37:43 AM
Pete, you simply have to double up the flying wires, although the landing ones should of course be single, and don't forget all the aileron and tail-surface horns and wires!   ;D


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on September 11, 2017, 03:48:47 AM
Pete, you simply have to double up the flying wires, although the landing ones should of course be single, and don't forget all the aileron and tail-surface horns and wires!   ;D
Jon, you're a cruel and evil man. It's not big, it's not clever, and nobody's laughing.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on September 11, 2017, 03:55:16 AM
Seriously though, one of the things which always appealed to me about kit scale is the fact that you don't need to worry much about accuracy or fine details; the rules give you a perfect excuse to just build something to the plan quickly and fly it. I'm starting to realise that Andrew's "small details can be added" can be something of a double edged sword! (but only if if you've got the kind of brain which taunts itself  :D)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on September 11, 2017, 05:38:40 AM

Jon, you're a cruel and evil man. It's not big, it's not clever, and nobody's laughing.


I know, I know... I've let myself down, my school down, my entire family and all our ancestors down, my mates, my dog...  :(

A good compromise though would be just the basic inter-plane rigging, no doubling or any malarky, just enough to 'suggest' WW1 biplane.

If a KS monoplane doesn't need - and would be penalised for - all those exposed control surface cables and horns, then neither your SE nor my Camel shall have them!  :D


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on September 11, 2017, 06:16:47 AM
A good compromise though would be just the basic inter-plane rigging, no doubling or any malarky, just enough to 'suggest' WW1 biplane.
Which is sort of what I've done, although I baulked at the side cross wires between the struts and the two extra flying wires which go to the middle of the top wing. So long as you get a general criss-cross effect I think it still says 'WW1 bipe'.

Rigging aside, one thing I like about Andrew's VMC designs is that they include just the vital details which help define each specific type. On the SE5 it's the weird tail skid, rocker covers and long exhaust pipes, the flat nose with its slats of course, and maybe the odd flared front uc legs. Even without adding any extra details, these things already make a relatively simple kit into a much more convincing model.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Snaky Stringer on September 12, 2017, 04:40:47 AM
I just learned from the co-proprietor of my local model shop that following on from a visit to a Birmingham show he is about to receive some VMC kits as a sort of straw in the wind. I tremble in anticipation.  :o Most of the modellers round here seem to be RC types but of course some of them may be into miniature RC. I wonder which kits he'll get? I have a KK SE5 and remember seeing an SE5 flying beautifully some thirty odd years ago at a meeting in Nottingham. The builder died shortly afterwards. Unfortunately I can't remember his name. The KK kit seems to have an awful lot of wood in it and so far I haven't been really tempted, tending to prefer WW2 low wingers on the whole, apart from a few exceptions.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on September 12, 2017, 05:05:37 AM
Last time I was up at the VMC works a few weeks back they had just done a shop counter pop up "variety box" so it maybe that he will have a few different ones.  The price the shop will charge is the same as if you buy it from the VMC website direct (the post is free) if you wanted more choice.  Although I think that is good to try and support your local model shop.  ;D.  I supported my local one since boyhood, but it just shut down as the old man died and his wife didn't want to carry on and neither did anyone else  :(

The VMC SE5a is no way as light as something that you could do with laminated tips and 1/16" square fusalage longerons etc, but there is a lot less wood than the KK one (although having said that my KK one flies very well!)

I wouldn't have gone for a bipe at one time.  But folks like Pete, Dan Mellor, Monz, ZK-AUD etc made me re-evaluate my thoughts on them.  I really enjoy building and flying some of the earlier stuff now! 8)

Andrew


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Snaky Stringer on September 12, 2017, 05:51:52 AM
I agree that supporting your local model shop is a good idea, especially as there fewer and fewer of them nowadays and those that remain tend not to stock rubber power kits. However, buying online is easy and usually cheaper, although postage charges from the good ole USA are a bit steep. I have a huge stash of unbuilt kits, but my daughter has just found a chap who has a thirteen year old son who is plane crazy and in the Air Cadets. They are currently building a Guillows Spitfire - the little one, which has much too much wood in it and a horrible plastic cowl but makes quite a pretty model and may fly. The small Guillows Hellcat is a good flyer and with a bit of lightening and a balsa cowl could probably be very good. Generally, I prefer Comet kits. I think I may have found a good home for some of my surplus stash. I also like the small Guillows Warhawk, which also needs a lot of wood reducing surgery.

I have studied the VMC catalogue and there is certainly a very wide choice. I have a lot of the KK and Veron kits and also quite a few downloaded plans of the ones that seemed to have disappeared before I got into modelling in the 'seventies, when I was already old enough to know better but was utterly hooked. Modelling had a very beneficial effect on my psyche, which was a bit bruised at the time as a result of a failed mariage. 


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on September 26, 2017, 04:52:27 AM
I added some details to my Moth... The rigging is still pending... but it will be done before Nijmegen.
I also found a brave pilot who is willing to fly with my plane. He might not be good looking, but for sure it must be a bold guy to do it...
Next will be some more trimming flights. The nose button was loose, I had to readjust it and want to check if it is right again...
Hope to provide some flight pics without the clay on the nose.

Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on September 26, 2017, 05:02:40 AM
Very nice, Roman! Love the trailing scarf.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: F F modeller on September 26, 2017, 05:38:30 AM
That looks great Roman  :)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on September 26, 2017, 11:11:00 AM
Lovely!

Should be a good one...

Dan.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on September 26, 2017, 02:18:28 PM
Roman - that looks brill, and love the cockpit-dude - look forward to meeting him in Nijmegen!

Jon


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pit on September 29, 2017, 08:43:43 AM
Really nice, Roman!  I'm already regretting not being able to attend this year :(.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on September 30, 2017, 11:02:23 AM
Thanks everybody, but be sure, it looks better in the picture than in real life...

I did some more detailing on the Moth. The rigging is done and I added some windshields. Working on the windshields was painful... These little beasts are just to flimsy... I invested quite some time in producing them, but still, they dont look so nice...

For the moment I am done with finishing. Next I will invest some time in trimming and flying. I tried a take off from the ground and it looked quite nice. But I have to trim it for a longer rubber.

In the mean time I found out, that it wasn't a very good idea to not dope the tissue before adding some acrylic colours... As soon as the air moisture is increasing, The tissue looks crumpled. Anyway... now its too late to correct that...
Weight as seen without rubber is 29g. It could be lighter (it can always be lighter ::)) but the Moth looks nice in flight and the speed is somehow scale like.

One problem I had was, that the rear peg is very high. Maybe to get a nice thrust line? Anyway... it is so high, that it was nearly impossible to install a Pilot. My solution with just a flat piece of balsa wood an the pilot head on it. And this is still touching the rubber slightly...

Over all, I am very happy with my Tiger Moth. It was a very nice build and it seems to fly well. I still have to fine tune the setting, but it looks promising so far.


Roman



Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on October 01, 2017, 11:15:24 AM
That's a very respectable weight Roman - for a well detailed VMC model!

With the peg well forward, I assume experimenting with a heavier motor won't radically alter the balance, so no extra dead weight will be needed in the nose?


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: rgroener on October 01, 2017, 02:06:04 PM
Jon, it looks so. My last try was with a 5cm longer loop and it didn't change the CG to much.
If the rubber is fully unwound, you never know how it settles in the fuselage. But until now, there where still plenty of turns in the rubber at the landing.
I didn't try it with full power.

Roman


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on October 21, 2017, 05:58:27 PM
A good chance to try out the SE5 at Alfreton today. It didn't take much to get it airborne at all, and no panics or heart in mouth moments of any kind- all testament to the soundness of Andrew's design.
I added 3g inside the noseblock to get the balance point just behind the top wing's spar as specified and  it was soon ROGing and circling with the aid of my usual acetate trim tab to keep the port wing up. Rudder is set straight and the circuits are still quite tight, but I wanted to stay well away from the walls. I'll open it up more at Nijmegen. 14 inch motor is  more or less the same as supplied and recommended in the kit (but 4 strands of 3/32 rather than two of 3/16).
Room for improvement still, and the descent is a bit steep at the end, but this will do me for now.
A.u.w with motor and noseweight is 37.6g.
Two vids:
About 600 and 700 winds respectively I think...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0nQ3TlWtns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mn6G8HNaXA


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on October 22, 2017, 12:43:04 AM
Hurrah!  The SE5a is flying a treat for its first time out.

If no rudder, what's keeping it in the (tight) circle?  Just torque, no side-thrust adjustment to the prop?

Jon

PS Alfreton looks like a clean sizeable hall; how many of you there?


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on October 22, 2017, 06:10:50 AM
Looks good Pete, opening the turn for the larger hall will see a decent altitude... ;D

Andrew


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on October 22, 2017, 06:56:20 AM
I think I'll need right rudder in order to open out the left hand circle. It's a bit of a shame that I originally half slit through the right side of the rudder line in order to bend it left, so I hope it doesn't fall off altogether when I force it the other way!


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Monz on October 22, 2017, 08:12:53 AM
Those were some good flights Pete. I'd leave the rudder as is and introduce a bit more right thrust. Dan's gas Se5 also looks great.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on October 22, 2017, 09:29:42 AM
Those were some good flights Pete. I'd leave the rudder as is and introduce a bit more right thrust.
Thanks Monz- that sounds like a plan. Funnily enough, Bill was wondering yesterday about whether to use rudder or side thrust to induce turn in indoor rubber models. I always tend towards rudder as I feel it to be a safer way to change the circle size without messing too much with anything else. I have absolutely no logic to back that up though!

(Also, I suppose rudder is a tidier looking option unless you've got a Gizmo geezer or some such.)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: TheLurker on October 22, 2017, 11:30:14 AM
Those looked like really good flights to me and I'd be completely satisfied with those results.  You're obviously more demanding of your aeroplanes than me.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on October 22, 2017, 12:20:58 PM
Thanks, and don't get me wrong, I am delighted with the way it flies, and for its first outing the tight (non-nerve jangling) circles were a real boon. What's more it means that when necessary I can probably fly it safely in pretty much any of the smaller halls used for indoor flying meets in this country. I will coax it into a larger circle at Nijmegen though, or else it'll just look like a small fly buzzing around in the middle.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: OZPAF on October 22, 2017, 06:49:18 PM
Nice flights with your Se5A Peter. I would like to suggest using a bit of tip weight on the right wing to open the turn together with Monz's suggestion of some more right thrust.
The advantage of using tip weight is that it will reduce the bank angle without requiring yaw to the right and would look more balanced.
John


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on November 19, 2017, 12:45:48 PM
In the end I just bent the rudder a bit to the right and got some respectable enough flights at Nijmegen to fiinsh 7th in KS with it. Plenty good enough! Here's a couple of vids from the Nijmegen thread as filmed by Jon (Jack Plane) and Tim Horne. Flight photo by Roman Groener. Thanks, guys!
It's a cracking little kit in my opinion. The question now is which VMC offering to build next- the Camel I've already got or the Triplane that's barged itself onto my Christmas list?

link to video (https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPJH17LM2o6GNbmzBHhXktAdCn_bBgG_t6Pa4iEzMcUMZisDxJGf6TRN16HOCEq1Q/photo/AF1QipMt00xh-vhWFh4BIzCdx6UwI_clrU-DPtu3x6RR?key=OHhWbUZsOURPMUlaMWpyejVTRzZqWGZ6M01HVHB3)

link to video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x-L7RqGVgU)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on November 19, 2017, 01:10:24 PM
Andrew, do you know if the Triplane will be out for Christmas?


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on November 19, 2017, 02:47:50 PM
I signed off the laser cut files, graphics and plan last week, and at that point the instruction booklets were at the designers -along with the kit box artworks.

I can check how things are progressing and let you know...

Andrew


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Pete Fardell on November 19, 2017, 03:40:27 PM
Thanks, Andrew. Sounds promising!


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: TheLurker on November 25, 2017, 10:13:04 AM
The following is a Lurker Industries Public Service Broadcast in association with the Dept. of the Bleedin' Obvious, The University of Much Binding in the Marsh by Witteringford Parva .

Apologies if what follows is already known to you.

1. If you're using sections of insulation as wheel retaining collars then it's very much easier to fit very small and narrow bore sections to axle stubs as shown in the attachment than faffing around with pliers or tweezers.  It's even easier if you file the piano wire ends fairly flat after cutting them and you can use the piano wire carrier to make cutting the collars to length much easier as well.

2. VMC kit parts seem1 to be cut to the line printed on the plan or possibly marginally inside rather than to the outside of the line.

If you didn't deal with item 1. properly the first time around item 2 becomes apparent when you have to scratch build a new wheel cos one has come off on landing and is irretrievably lost in long grass .  If this happens and you do what you were taught aeons ago in woodwork / metalwork and cut then shape to the outside of the line you will find your new wheel is slightly over diameter when compared with the other, original, wheel.  Enough to be discernable, and therefore annoying, when you fit it, but not enough to be noticeable until you come to fit it.  

The good news is that a replacement wheel for the Camel only takes an hour or three to build, paint and fit from uncut sheet if you are prepared to live with shortcuts like a using a single inner disc rather than two with masking off to paint the tyre and hub.

1 - I noticed something similar when I built the replacement engine block for No. 5 but at the time I put it down to my general ham-handedness.  Other possibilities include my photocopier not copying absolutely exactly to size.  Either way something to watch for if building replacement bits.  


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Andrew Darby on November 25, 2017, 10:35:48 AM
Hi Lurks,

The cuts are down the middle of the lines as that is the true path, CAD lines are effectively infinitely thin, so when you define a thickness (in the case of the VMC plans 0.3mm) to plot the plan it makes them 0.15mm thick either side of the infinitely thin line. It should be and will be far more accurate than what is shown on the plan, and far far more accurate than a photocopy of the parts.  Plotters and inkjets can achieve around 1% on the scale due to they way they work, laser printers and copiers have pretty poor scale.

To make sure they are cut along the true path I compensate for the thickness of the laser beam, as one would do on a CNC milling machine etc via the "cutter comp"

In summary the parts are accurate, the plan, and or photocopies of the plan will not be as accurate...

I hope that this helps.

Andrew



Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: TheLurker on November 25, 2017, 11:51:46 AM
In summary the parts are accurate, the plan, and or photocopies of the plan will not be as accurate...

I hope that this helps.
Thanks, it does.  It also makes me feel marginally better about today's result and, given my unenviable ability to lose bits from my aeroplanes, I suspect it's knowledge that I shall be obliged to make use of... repeatedly.   :)

chr$
Lurk


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on November 25, 2017, 01:02:27 PM
Great hat!   ;D  ;)


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: RalphS on November 25, 2017, 03:37:42 PM
1. If you're using sections of insulation as wheel retaining collars then it's very much easier to fit very small and narrow bore sections to axle stubs as shown in the attachment than faffing around with pliers or tweezers.

If you want the insulation to really grip and have less chance of losing a wheel try this little tip.  Select a piece of insulation that is too tight to slide onto the wire.  Cut the insulation to the required length and drop it into a small receptacle that contains cellulose thinners.  Wait about 10-15 minutes and pick it out using tweezers.  Unless you have some rare form of insulation it will have swollen sufficiently to slide easily onto the wire.  Leave it alone and do some other job or have a snooze.  The insulation will dry out and return to the original size and grip like a vice.
I have used this technique for 40 or 50 years when we also used it in place of heatshrink tubing on electronic bits.  Don't spread this information around - keep it under your hat.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: Jack Plane on November 26, 2017, 04:30:53 AM
Excellent tip Ralph. I must remember to collect it from the hat when I next need to fix wheels...


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: TheLurker on November 26, 2017, 03:19:42 PM
Excellent tip Ralph.
+1.  And safely stowed sub hat :)   

I did think about using some heatshrink tubing I've had lying around since the 6502 was cutting edge, but don't trust myself with a soldering iron close to balsa these days.


Title: Re: VMC cookup?
Post by: danmellor on December 16, 2017, 12:50:04 PM
I think I've comprehensively blown my chances of finishing another VMC kit before the end of this...

Cheers,

Dan.