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Author Topic: Coughlin's AMA Cub Unlimited  (Read 1456 times)
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outofbalance
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« on: March 01, 2012, 11:40:39 PM »

Hi Folks,

About ten or 12 years ago I built a Coughlin AMA Cub Unlimited, an indoor sport model using the materials from an AMA Cub kit but with a far-reaching design by Gil Coughlin.  I am drawn to these kinds of models, kind of on the edge stuff.  I flew it a number of times at the Boulder, Colorado, CU fieldhouse when we used to fly there.  It was a bit heavy but I liked the way it flew even though it used a prop hanger and plastic prop, heavy wood, and tissue paper.

Last week I built another but this time I used a pigtail front end, lighter wood, a basswood prop (seven inches), and a veggie bag covering.  This model has a 22 1/2 inch wing span.  The original design was to weigh about 11-12g, this one weighs 4.9g and it will be fun to fly.

If anyone knows anything about Coughlin, I'd appreciate  knowing about him.  Here are a few photos below.  She has yet to fly.  I expect that I'll need a glob of clay in the nose hatch as the tail hook is IN THE TAIL.

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Coughlin's AMA Cub Unlimited
Coughlin's AMA Cub Unlimited
Coughlin's AMA Cub Unlimited
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craig h
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« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2012, 07:22:16 AM »

This looks interesting for my fat fingers to be able to build.
 What size motor will be used ? Hope we get to see it fly.
 
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Bruce McCrory
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« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2012, 12:53:15 PM »

Gil Passed away a couple years ago.

He worked at Boeing (Washington State) in the 'model shop'. He showed me his creations for the SST test program. One was carved from a glass game marble. He was on the 195? Wakefield Team. However, his preference was not to be competitive, but instructive. I have a couple Jim Jones torque meters he loaned me, then refused to take back. I will give them to a new modeler some day, when I don't need them.

He was a modeling enthusiast and its ambassador to the public. At events, his tables--note the plural--were the closest to the 'front door'. Visitors were entertained by a continual flight of rubber powered oddities. It was he who bussed youngsters to contests and club meetings; then home. Anyone who wanted, and showed a capacity, could fly a model at the event he usually facilitated. He was the first indoor flyer I met when I developed an interest in airplane modeling.

His dream was to have a modeling museum of western USA interest. I think he had a complete collection of Elf engines--family built in Oregon--along with collections of other western manufacturer's. His home *was* a museum. There was a rocker, TV, kitchen counter, and single bed. He built and restored on the rocker.

Gil was a wonderful gentleman to know.

Bruce McCrory
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« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2012, 06:23:39 PM »

Hi Craig,

I'm thinking I'll start with 3/32" test loop about the length of the fuselage.  As I remember performance of the first model, it was pretty fast; the wing is high aspect ratio (I think).  I have a wad of clay on the 'clay niche' just ahead of the wing and I'm thinking about moving the motor peg. Or, I might use a heavier plastic prop, something around seven inches.

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« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2012, 06:35:53 PM »

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the Gil Coughlin modeling memoir.  He sounds like quite a good person. Your testimony reminds me a bit of the things I've heard about Bill Brown of the UK who also passed a few years back. These modelers had quite a spirit for design. I wonder if any other Coughlin FF rubber power model plans are on the Internet or available elsewhere?

Regardless, thanks for the information,

Outofbalance

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« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2012, 08:59:10 PM »

Gil Coughlin came to the US Indoor Championships several years ago and brought many interesting models. One of his most interesting models was the Windham Tandem and is the plan that I would like if anyone knows a source.

Once I did a search on Gil Coughlin and confirmed that he had passed away and was an alumnus of Auburn University and was honored at some homecoming there.

Fred Rash
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Bruce McCrory
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« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2012, 10:49:33 PM »

I don't remember Gil being an innovator or designer--or displaying his own designs--as much as being a collector of model designs. He generally credited original designers. One, Gil mentored and then worked closely with at Boeing, Aronstein (sp), who I think is in the Wichita, Kansas area now.

Gil was a black hole and vacuum when it came to plans. I was able to borrow a couple; but there was really no cataloging to keep track. The collection is still in "storage" moldering, as I understand.

Gil had huge styrofoam boxes full of models, loose, that he would dip into at events. I think the only distinction was: one was light models--penny-planes, mini's, manhattans; the next were medium weight--scale, and oddballs; and a possible third one of heavy craft. "Light models" is a relative term. All were pretty beefy in construction. He also collected and flew deceased people's work which joined his own in those big boxes.

If you bought Teflon washers from Lew Gitlow (Indoor Model Supply) they were punched out singly from sheet by Gil. I have a few much smaller than the mini-size, that never got to Lew.

Bruce McCrory
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outofbalance
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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2012, 11:14:34 AM »

Hi Bruce,

The plan I have says: Designed by : Gil Coughlin, Drawn by: D. Higgins. The date is clipped off the edge but it appears to be 8/18....part of the plan is missing too. I think I found this doc on the Internet, it might have been tiled, or I might have just garphed up the download or print functions. Anyway. I pieced it together with Scotch Tape but parts of the edges and the upper margin are missing. Kind of mysterious....thanks for your views.

So, we are flying indoors tomorrow and I'll give the model a few tosses then report on the outcomes.

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Bruce McCrory
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« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2012, 04:00:28 PM »

All right! Sneaky guy... Gil never claimed his own, that I remember.
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Bruce McCrory
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« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2012, 05:28:05 PM »

Fred, I quizzed the SAM8 forum for the WindHam Tandem Monoplane. I don't expect a 'hit', however. Doing a search, I found several photos from a .ru site from 1909. It fits a description you made on another post.

Considering Gil's model habits, it may have been his model, another's; or, simply a 'one-off'. If he had a plan, it is better to recreate from photo records.

Bruce in Seattle
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frash
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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2012, 06:12:37 PM »

Thanks, Bruce, for all your help. Gil Coughlin was an interesting guy with interesting models but I never had much contact with him.

Fred Rash
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outofbalance
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« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2012, 07:30:22 AM »

Hi Folks,

I found a picture of my first AMA Cub Unlimited.  The plan is the same one I used for the subject of this thread. I lived in Estes Park, CO, at the time and I think I may have gotten this plan from one of the Marin County flyers (CA).  I used to visit that site often (Thayer Syme-sp, ed.?).  This photo is from an old version; hope it leaps all those Mac layers of product history.

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Re: Coughlin's AMA Cub Unlimited
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Bruce McCrory
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« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2012, 12:04:48 AM »

Fred, Steve Dona said Jim Clem had a Windham Tandem too. I wonder .....

Bruce in Seattle
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« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2012, 12:43:23 AM »

Hi folks,

I made a number of trimming flights of Gil's AMA Cub Unlimited design.  On a short motor, she flew quite well on a 3/32nd and a 16.9cm prop of formed basswood. I had static balanced her by adding clay to get the CG inside the wing chord, but when I test glided, she nosed over so I started taking clay off and the nose came up nicely and then she had a soft turn to the right too broad for the gym so I added some right rudder and took off a bit more clay.

On the short motor I made maybe ten flights before we ran out of time.  She has a flat climb and a smooth glide; no bad habits so far.

I'll report more later,

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Bruce McCrory
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« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2012, 01:59:10 PM »

Outo', now you need to hold the model in one hand, rubber mounted to--I believe--the prop; then holding the winder gears case in the other hand, stick the handle into your belly button; and, wind up, talking the whole time. Once in awhile, exclaim: "rats! I lost count." and pull the winder handle from your belly. Then start over.

If you have another model, keep one flying while winding up the second.

Bruce in Seattle
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« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2012, 05:04:59 PM »

Hi Bruce,

Never a dull moment in your camp. I am more challenged by multitasking!

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Bruce McCrory
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« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2012, 12:34:46 AM »

I was describing Gil's trademark flying habits.  Grin

He did limit ornithopters to a single model.
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« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2012, 08:23:12 AM »

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the description.

OOB
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« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2012, 01:07:06 PM »

Hi Folks,

I flew the AMA Cub Unlimited last weekend, as I mentioned earlier in this thread and I will fly it again when we fly next. But, my flying  colleagues said I needed to make the tail smaller, so I built another model since I wanted to preserve the model I built according to Gil's plan.

I call this model Gil's Goblin.  It came in at 3.7g.  The stab and wings are the same as the original plan; I put the fin beneath, I moved the wing back; the fuselage is the same length and I used a pigtail front end.  The wing, stab and fin are covered with super market veggie bag. The rudder has flattened copper wire so I can play with it while trimming.   The CG came out about 50% without rubber; when  the motor is installed I think the CG will go back to about 80% give or take. I'm hoping to be able to move the wing if the CG gets too far back.  Here are some photos.

Outofbalance
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Coughlin's AMA Cub Unlimited
Re: Coughlin's AMA Cub Unlimited
Re: Coughlin's AMA Cub Unlimited
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« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2013, 10:54:18 AM »

I just ran across old video of the AMA Cub Unlimited and had built flying under a 22 foot ceiling.

http://youtu.be/-Nm98U3KwPw


Bill Kuhl
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« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2014, 11:30:14 AM »

Hi Folks,

I flew my adaptive version of Gil's design for the first time SINCE last winter. It is still covered with veggie sack film from the grocery. I am using 1/32 tan sport to test it. I am under an 18 or 20 foot ceiling in a middle school gym. A week ago last Sunday, I got a 1:45. I'm working on changing to a lighter covering and reducing the incidence a bit. We have a record of 3:16 under this ceiling, so I have a long was to go to catch up. Our record holder, Bob Haberstroh, passed over the summer, so it was a rather quiet gathering. Now, we have to live up to his standards more than ever.

There is a photo of my sport version of Coughlin's model several frames above this post. I finally got it to turn, and with a different covering and a flatter climb, I might get to three minutes, but, no promises!

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« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2017, 08:20:40 AM »

Hi ff friends,
I have moved to Iowa (Solon); we live about ten miles from Mt. Vernon where Jon McVay has assembled about 15 ff folks. We fly each Sunday at the Mt. Vernon high school gym; each visit we donate $5 and Jon keeps this cash and donates it to the school in the following spring or early summer. This is my second indoor season in Iowa. One of our membership is Paul McIlrath!!!!! He's in his 90s and his daughter brings him over from Cedar Rapids. He's flying a rubber pusher that looks a little like the old space shuttle.
Last July we assembled and did a Cloud Tramp mass launch.
To continue this thread, I have Gil's Goblin out and flew it the last two meetings. I'm getting 1:30 to 1:40 but I hope with some stab and TLC changes I can get this up to 2:00. We'll see. Stay tuned. This is a great forum.

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« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2018, 03:14:39 AM »

Gil was my mentor for indoor rubber from 1992 until his passing. I made 27 kits of Al Lidberg's Ballerina profile for a building class, and the one that Gil owned he made me sign it so he could hang it in his kitchen with other kits of North West kit manufacturers. Gil's best friend, Frank Macey passed the same day, as did the wife of another model plane friend of mine.  Got all three phone calls the same day.  Today I was flying with Dave Higgins at the Everett Boeing recreation center.  I believe Dave has a master copy of his drawing of Gil's Cub.
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« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2018, 03:49:17 AM »

Hi BalsaBoy,
Nice to know who D. Higgins is and that he's still busy with these models.
Recently I recovered my second edition of Gil's AMA Cub. The wood is clogged with the refuse of dry UHU glue stick, but I cleaned up the surfaces as best I could. Still using supermarket veggie film. What a great model! And still flying my version of the Cub, which I call Gil's Goblin.
Thanks for the report,
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« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2018, 10:37:47 PM »

Gil was my mentor for indoor rubber from 1992 until his passing. I made 27 kits of Al Lidberg's Ballerina profile for a building class, and the one that Gil owned he made me sign it so he could hang it in his kitchen with other kits of North West kit manufacturers. Gil's best friend, Frank Macey passed the same day, as did the wife of another model plane friend of mine.  Got all three phone calls the same day.  Today I was flying with Dave Higgins at the Everett Boeing recreation center.  I believe Dave has a master copy of his drawing of Gil's Cub.

Hi BalsaBoy53,

I too met Gil around 1992, and I always enjoyed seeing him at Albany and Kibbie Dome contests.  I still have blinking bottle cap pin that he gave me more than 20 years ago.  I keep it in my tool box as a reminder.

Do you fly regularly in the recreation center?  I wasn't aware that any flying was still happening in that area.  I met Keith Varnau a few times, and I believe I went to a BEAMS contest up there back in the mid 90's.  I'm still in the Portland area, and I'd love to get more opportunities to fly as we only get into Albany about 4 times a year.

Regards,
Jake Palmer
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