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Author Topic: Conversion of Dumas, Comet, Herr and Guillow rubber band kits to R/C - General  (Read 17720 times)
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Konrad
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« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2012, 12:30:17 PM »

I do like to use Kevlar as a live hinge as opposed to my normal film hinge in some instances. Make sure to keep and adhesive out of the fibers at the hinge line.

All the best,
Konrad
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Hank G B Z
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« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2012, 08:42:38 PM »

Ok I'll add my two cents on radio installation. 

  I  mostly like push rods with these small models using the AR6400.  That's because to do pull pull properly I'd have to build a bell crank, which i'm not opposed to it's just something i'd save for the right model.  I like pull pull with standard rotary arm servos.  Now i know I can set up a 24" or even 30" model to fly on the single cell stuff but I rarely have access to an indoor facility so I set up my models to be able to handle a slight breeze and fly out doors on calm days.  So with that in mind I like to pick the best servo for the job. 

  All of my early 30" conversioins used the old HS55.  Which is an ok servo but there are much better options out there.  I like the Dimond D 47 best for a general servo, it's fast, accurate, and weighs about 4.7 grams as advertised.  It also has some cool mounting gear for wing installations.  I do like the new Eflight digital servos that are about 3 grams and have JST connectors.  They're quick and have much better resolution than the old blue arrow 2.5 gram JST connector servos. 

  The last thing and this goes back to making it an r/c model is to make sure you have access to all of the equipment inside the plane.  I still use servo rails and screws to hold in most of my rotary arm servos.  Occasionally i'll wrap one in tape and epoxy it in but that's in an extreme stance when there are no other options like my Alfa Wild cat that I went to seperate ailerons on and i needed to glue them into the wing. 

  On the small linear gear stuff I like to use servo tape to hold everything down.  The servos and bricks have various electronic parts on the back side so normally some trimming is required to allow for the parts to lay flat. 

  In the case of my Dumas P-6 I didn't really have good access to the Brick.  So I made a pate with a tongue and grove that held it in place.  Access is through a patch of covering on the side of the plane.  A single screw in the back make's sure that it is held securely.  This technique proved it's self well when i changed from the brushed set up to the two cell brushless set up with the AR6400 BL.  Access to the push rods is through the cockpit. 

  Hope this helps some.  Here are some pics of the Brick install system in the P-6.

Hank
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spacerod
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« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2012, 01:43:02 PM »

Hi All
I'm currently converting an old Airsail kit (from New Zealand I think)
of a Pilatus Porter from rubber to small electric RC. I'll be using a Park Zone
P-51 Motor and the control system from a Vapor or something similar.
Trying to keep it as light as possible.
Charlie Coeyman
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Konrad
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« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2012, 04:11:03 PM »

Charlie,
It sounds like a great project.
How about starting a thread so we can follow along with the your build?

Giving your model a quick look over I'd think you could loose some weight in the wing tips. Also I don't see how you are going to make the wing struts functional.

Best of luck,
Konrad
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spacerod
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« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2012, 08:36:04 PM »

Konrad
 I'm sure your right about losing some weight on the wing tips.
Some wood removal here and there should do the trick.
As for the wing struts, I think they will be ok as I
plan to make the wings and struts both removable.
I'll try to post some pictures when I get to that point.
Right now I'm considering my covering options.

Charlie Coeyman   
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Konrad
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« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2012, 12:52:47 AM »

I should have mentioned this earlier. Along with laminating the outlines of tail feathers and wing tips you can make the keels as laminated parts. As there is often just minor curves one can just pin out the outline. It might still be wise to use some balsa as a spreader adjacent to some of the sharper bends to spread out the load and not kink the material being used to make the keels.

Note that towards the top of the photo you can see the side keel being made, along with the top and bottom keels.

All the best,
Konrad

(Guillow Piper Cherokee 140 shown)
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OZPAF
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« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2012, 09:26:32 AM »

Another way of providing surface horn to pushrod connections is to use 1mm carbon rod for both the horn and the pushrod and to join them with a piece of heatshrink tubing. Shrink the tubing carefully on a scrap piece of 1mm rod and then use it to connect the pushrod to the horn.
Align the surface with the servo arm at neutral and then carefully wick in a little CA into the tubing on both the rod and the horn.
It is very flexible, wears well(installation on Fox shown is almost 3 yrs old) and there is no slop between the pushrod and the rod and it is light and strong.
John
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Konrad
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« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2012, 04:49:00 PM »

John,
I agree that heat shrink tubing can be a great way to attach wire ends to carbon rods (any rod material) see reply #24. I think you make a good point in that is can also be used as a flex joint. like that needed in the classic set up of a torque rod driven aileron.

(See attached cartoon)
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OZPAF
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« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2012, 07:21:11 PM »

Yes it works well as a "no play" flexible pivot/joint. As the angular movement is small and the loads are very light it lasts well. Its an old indoor model trick. I have seen a similar method used on RC HLG's but with home made kevlar cord pushrods. The flexible joint was an area of the kevlar pushrod where the resin had been removed by sharp bending. It also worked well and could also be used for these small models.
The rods are very easy to make by twisting wetted out kevlar rovings tight and then hanging vertically with a weight holding them straight and restrained from unwinding, while the epoxy sets.
The rods can be any size required.
I have seen this method used on large competition F3B RC gliders as well - running in outer tubing.
John
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Konrad
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« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2012, 08:14:20 PM »

John,
Thanks for the idea. I'll have to try the matrix deleted fiber joint some time. Any idea as to the type of epoxy used. I assume it is a stiff, hard type, not the hobby grade  30 minute type.

All the best,
Konrad
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« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2012, 09:12:08 PM »

Good quality laminating epoxy resin was used. 30 min may work on small models.
John
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spacerod
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« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2012, 07:41:39 PM »

Hi All
Back in reply #27 of this thread I posted a photo of the rubber Pilatus Porter
I was converting to electric RC. Except for some markings the plane is now
completed and I'll try to attach some photos.
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Hank G B Z
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« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2012, 06:52:47 PM »

Spacerod,

  Nice Porter.  How does it fly?  Also what system did you come up with to make the struts re-moveable?  I can see that you have the wings rubber banded on. 

regards,

Hank
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spacerod
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« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2012, 09:32:00 PM »

Hank
 I haven't done any flight tests to date. I did add some markings today and am trying to
locate the CG as well as I can statically . I'll try to take some more photos tomorrow
showing the strut attachment method and post them here.
Thanks for your interest.

Charlie Coeyman
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« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2012, 02:35:43 PM »

Hank
 I tried to take some pictures showing the strut attachment method but my photo skills
are limited so I hope you can see what I did.
  I have some very small cotter pins and attached one to each end of each strut.
  Then I attached a small length of heat shrink tubing (not shrunk) to each strut attachment
point on the fuse. and wing.
  Once the wing is attached using the good old rubber band method the cotter pins at the
end of the struts are slid into the tubing snd its done. Easily come loose when necessary.
 
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Hank G B Z
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« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2012, 02:42:35 PM »

Charlie,

  Very cool using the cotter pins.  Can't wait to hear about the test flight.

Hank
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Manne
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« Reply #41 on: December 31, 2012, 01:06:30 AM »

Konrad,
A very interesting subject. I am part way through the conversion of a Guillows Cub 303 series and was a little stumped about some aspects of the build, mainly the installation of the radio and servos. Your subject has enlightened me a great deal, so much so that I can continue my build.
An interesting observation is that all your lightening tecniques have been incorporated in my build, which was about mid 2010, and I don't remember where I read about it. (I think it was an article by Paul Johnson on his Airfield Models website)
Regards
Manne
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Konrad
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« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2013, 07:13:19 AM »

Manne,
There is little or nothing new in what I'm showing here. Most of what I show are tried and true weight saving techniques used to lighten any rubber band powered model. I have found that many folks trying to convert these models to electric R/C don't have the Free Flight background and as a result aren't aware of the need to save weight from the rear of the model. As an R/C model there is the added concern that the landing gear actually have to function, that the control surfaces must hold their shape and at the same time articulate. Many kits need to have the 'decalage' changed, so as to be trimmable for R/C flight (less speed sensitive).

On your Guillow Cub (series 303) here is a thread I used to help VP46 with his conversion.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=832844
I apologies for having to send you to that site but I haven't yet to ported over all of my abandoned threads. Please take a look at my other threads both on RCG and here for ideas on how to complete your Cub.

In fact I'd like to ask that you start a build thread here on HIP so that others can follow and learn from your efforts.

All the best,
Konrad

P.S. Do you have a link to the Airfield Models's site?
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Manne
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« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2013, 10:12:41 AM »

Hi Konrad,
I am flattered that would like me to post a thread regarding my build. Thank you.

Paul K Johnsons site is:

http://www.airfieldmodels.com/index.html

Oh boy is my face red? I have just followed your link to the 'other' site and it was your build which inspired my aspirations to build the Cub with all the details regarding lightening the structure applied faithfully. I will have to pluck up the ncourage to write!!
Regards
Manne
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Konrad
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« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2013, 12:25:05 PM »

...
Oh boy is my face red? I have just followed your link to the 'other' site and it was your build which inspired my aspirations to build the Cub with all the details regarding lightening the structure applied faithfully. I will have to pluck up the courage to write!!
Regards
Manne

Well then it is I that owes you an apology for not bringing that thread to a conclusion. Well, actually the poor management of RCG owes you and I an apology.  Angry
But I think vp46 did a great job documenting the finishing and flight report of his Cub.

Thanks for the link.

Happy New Year,
Konrad

P.S.
I'm truelly happy that the thread inspired you to try to do one of these conversion, that is the aim of my build threads. It almost make all the hassle with the management (RCG) worth it. Again please post a thread of your build, I and others would like to learn what you are doing.
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Manne
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« Reply #45 on: January 02, 2013, 09:37:09 AM »

Hi Konrad,
Thanks, and a happy new year to you and all the readers on this Forum.

Australia has kicked off to a good one, and here in the west we are still trying to shake off the holiday spirit!
Not much has happened to my builds recently, mainly due to the infiltration of the holiday season and all the family coming and going, but I will be getting back to some serious building soon.
My nieces boys want to start the hobby? (at least build a plane, they said), so we will see if they are really Kosher with a very simple build out of sheet balsa.

Maybe I will write a thread on that too!!!  Wink Undecided

Regards
Manne
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« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2013, 09:38:26 PM »

This is an extremely helpful thread.  I've spent time staring at the Guillow's models in the local craft store and fantasizing what I could do with that box of wood and some of the gear out of one of my Eflite foam models.  Then I realize there is more to it than I think and move on...haven't had the guts to try one yet...
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Konrad
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« Reply #47 on: January 15, 2013, 07:41:41 AM »

If you have built a balsa R/C model before, you should have very little trouble with the new 2 cell foam kit power systems in the 24" to 32" Guillow models?

With all the substitution I do (laminated outlines) I actually like the older die crushed kits. But the new laser cut kits do result in very nice fuselages (the formers match the plans much better than the kits of old). Also the new laser cut kits have much better balsa than the old die cut kits.

Try it you'll like it!

All the best,
Konrad
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Monique
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« Reply #48 on: April 08, 2013, 12:16:35 PM »

Just read this thread through, some great tips Konrad.

Having attended the indoor scale r/c comp yesterday, I'm going to try my hand at this. I used to fly big r/c years ago (funfly and slope) so this should be fun!
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Konrad
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« Reply #49 on: April 08, 2013, 12:58:21 PM »

Monique,
Thank you. I agree there are some great tips in this thread, but I'm not the only contributor.

On that subject I've seen some of your exquisite work here and elsewhere!  I fully expect to see many contributions, about the subject, from you.  Smiley

All the best,
Konrad
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