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Author Topic: RDF in Pistachio Scale  (Read 7556 times)
Dalat and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Dalat
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« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2014, 06:04:36 AM »

Hi you all
Best wishes for a successful and exciting 2014 for you and all the poeple and things you most love  Cheesy Shocked
Many thanks for your Attention. Essentially, the Mig 17 is on my schedule, nearly everything are waiting to be assembled  Cry
Instead of getting this straighly done, i was constantly distracted by discovering These many ways to simplify and improve the building process for you all...the very very best is an enemy of good. So i decide now for more building and less Research. I hope that this MiG 17  ist more promising than the F104G, - with the RDF in Forward Position like a propeller to reduce Ballast for GC -  More wing Area - clean airflow canal -
just remains an uncertain factor: how affects airflow the engine thrust from intake Through this Long canal to exhaus.  Report will follow.

Happy new year  Cheesy
Dalat
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Bulldogger
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« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2014, 10:09:39 AM »

Dalat, thank you for sharing this build. It is interesting to watch.
I have read that positioning the RDF forward increases drag on the thruster air, and results in worsened performance. Certainly the gain in balance might be of more value. I have not yet tested this trade off myself.
Have you considered adding more blades to your fans? The few successful RDFs all seem to use 7-8 blades.
Happy New Year
Alex
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Dalat
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« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2014, 10:16:08 AM »

Hallooo
Thank lincoln for These Caproni-Stipa and Miles M.52, they are interesting but one hast not place for Long rubber the others would not win an Beauty Award  Roll Eyes . Please frash don't get impressed by the thought that RDF are  difficult to build. These are no more than a tube with a small
Propeller/bearer/wing Support/Rubberband end Support equiped inside...cemented to a wing,fin and rudder.
Please watch the attached Photo as a proof of my statement and try to get something outside the box...You will find the MiG 17 in kit form with
parts and an Yokosuka MXY-7 OHKA. The last one was simply choosed for it simple large Diameter tube Fuselage as an test bench for a future
North american X15. Please don't pay Attention to The opacity These provisory weight saving Cockpits.
Would you wonder : What ?!  a new Story with rubber Rocketplane or RRP ? yes sir, i will try to get These rocket powered plane model fly with RDF, further equiped with some diskrete cheat holes ! this dream have to come true !!
Stay amused
Dalat
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Re: RDF in Pistachio Scale
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Dalat
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« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2014, 10:57:27 AM »

Bulldogger, many thank for your contribution...Now i know a Little more about the effects/consequence of this Forward RDF Position configuration...Althrough a positive result test with this configuration in a non Scale Model of a Skystreak D 558-1, with same inlet/outlet diam
about 1 Inch...Now i have this MiG 17 with a fuse of different Diam in Inches: inlet/1  -- Middle Fuse/1,2 -- Outlet/0.8...
I hope that will give some usable values...Suspense for me  Huh
I have already, perhaps not deeply enough, tested an 6 blades Fan and a 2 stages 4 Blades... and quickly find out that the 4 blades give the best climb ratio...and the 2 stage 4 blades  drive the whole smoother but less nervous...All These figures ware done at the Moment that i ware'nt
sure of this F104G would fly at all...Now i will complete this Mig 17 first, to see what it would be and give...! There still are so many factors to check and test with These simple RDF, specially this R is not like Electric  or Gas Motor...And this ist the very challenging side of this Party..
Dalat
 
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Dalat
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« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2014, 05:30:20 AM »

Hi all
I have just send a plan package of the F104G Starfighter with Instruction Sheets in  " HPA  Builders' Plan Gallery - Indoor Scale " under links:
   
         http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=6044&sessionid=da38130d7301f80573ba63b6e23531e9

just for the case, if you are curious to see scarcely how this F104G RDF Sub-Pistachio-6 Inches span would be done .

Dalat
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Dalat
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« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2014, 12:47:49 PM »

Hi all
in this links are, for the making of this F104G as well the RDF Unit and the way to intall and fly this RDF bird :
           http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/categories.php?cat_id=37
and i just see since  Januar 2014 are more than 580 download of this plan. I wonder what would happen with all These download ?!
I really have no fun to receive any reaction or Feedback of These download !!
 These plans are not done just to be watched ! but the purpose ist to help poeple to build one of this really unusual Project...
Please don't let me be frustrated, after so many efforts to bring These plans to you ! it is only fair that i expected a re living interestaction to this many Downloads...and this would encourage me to pubish ( total gratis) more of These for you for example : Mirage III Swiss air force, Mig 21 MR
with camo, MIg 17 of Vietnam air force , Douglas Skystreak D558 1 and some more etc...
May i Count on your living interest to make it happen ?

many Thank you for your reaction
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« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2014, 05:43:18 PM »

 WOW. I cant beleive I missed this topic.
 Great stuff Dalat, look forward to any projects you put forth, your Pnuts and Pictachios are stunning. Loved the ZLin as well as the RDF, very cool stuff bud.
 Best of luck in the future.
-M.
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« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2014, 10:52:26 AM »

Hello Dalat!
I´ve downloaded your plans, and look at them at least once a week, because I´m thinking the way to do the same but with the Pulqui 2 (also with the MIg 21 plans by Shugimoto Roll Eyes)
Please, don´t feel frustrated. It´s just that most of us don´t feel confidence enough in our skills to build this beautys!!  Shocked Shocked
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Dalat
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« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2014, 07:01:29 AM »

Hello Graiskye and Yagua

Many thanks for your Feedbacks, which set an end to my journey in this lonely isle/desert with These RDF.
I hope once to describe an easier way to get These RDF unit done...and his airplane too.
If you don't have Patient to realise These now, please just stay relax and get the most of what you like best.
Sincerely this RDF Pistachio F104G was really for me a big challenge in every ways! And it really worked...
Just to Show you what are coming after This test Phase, some other in the Pipeline, as Screenshoots. I am nearly sure that These will be easier to build and fly better as the F104G. When you get a F104G working, you'll get all of the others !!
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: RDF in Pistachio Scale
Re: RDF in Pistachio Scale
Re: RDF in Pistachio Scale
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Dalat
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« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2014, 01:26:43 PM »

Hi all

Private matters brought my further development of this F104G RDF (Rubber Ducted Fan) to a stop. Thereby, I decided to let the first short Test Fly of this F104G (wound to 1700 Turns instead of 5000 turns Maximum) upload in YouTube through a friend:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrj9r6RincU

Many photos from this thread were Hardcopies from this Videos.
Please note that this Thing would stay nearly 3 times longer in the air, if I only had the nerve to wound it rubber to the Maximum !
I'm Sorry for this late upload, and wish you to make this F104G fly much longer than I did.

Dalat
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« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2014, 04:40:17 AM »

That video is VERY encouraging!
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Dalat
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« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2014, 02:10:23 PM »


Hello "Rubber Ducted Fan" FANS

Hereby a Video of my every first RDF, not very scale but easier to trim and fly, used as testbench for the RDF F104G Starfighter, much more scale...It seems to work this tiny semi-scale Douglas D558 1 Skystreak RDF, easy to build consist of just a tube + Wings-stab-fin +RDF:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I6XmeiYvUQ

May these Videos invite you to make one RDF for your own ?    Roll Eyes Wink

Yours

Dalat
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« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2014, 12:14:34 AM »

Hi, I was just wondering if you could build structures like this out of ordinary printer paper? With a little extra internal support of course but do you see paper as viable at all?

Thanks
Halsfury
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Dalat
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« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2014, 07:39:34 PM »

Hallo Halsfury
I have done structures like this out of ordinary Printer paper 80g/m2, and the whole glides very good...Paper is viable, just Performances may suffer a Littlewith a Penalty of 2.6g supplement ...This means a total flying weight 6g instead 3.4g with styrofoam sheet configuration.
Paper is more sensible to humidity, under extreme conditions this F104G paper may be crushed under rubber Tension.
My friends has build very succesful and beautiful Paper scale Pistachios PC6 Turbo PorterG  with 50g/m2 paper :
   http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=15896.25
I am not sure if this This 50g/m2 paper will do the Job with this F104G, which is bigger than the PC6.
You may get inspired by this PC6 how-to-build article and  try to apply it to the Starfighter.
some Refs.  Papersheet ist 50-80g/m2 , My styrofoamsheet ist 28g/m2, the total area of F104G cut out is 5.5 dm2, RDF unit 0.36g,
rubber 0.65g, miscelalleous 1g...This is a try worth, and with paper it is easier to get it together. Good luck.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: RDF in Pistachio Scale
Re: RDF in Pistachio Scale
Re: RDF in Pistachio Scale
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« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2014, 05:24:03 PM »

Unfortunately I want to have a use for all my materials so I don't want to go buy a package of special 50g/m paper, I'd rather go with styrofoam on second thought.
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Dalat
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« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2014, 07:03:21 PM »

Anyways 50 gsm paper is too weak and thus not appropiate for this F104G size...a try with normal 80 gsm cost nearly nothing, this model will be quickly done with paper...which ist very useful, to learn how to trim this very unconventional configuration: reduced wing area, anhedral/negative dihedral wing...fortunatly the T form fin/rudder neutralises in some extend the anhedral  wing.
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« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2014, 11:05:59 PM »

Sorry about that I only remembered the latter half of your earlier post when I was formulating a response.

So basically I can use paper but it's much heavier than foam and, because it's completely two dimensional it buckles easily (which is the obvious point against it)

On the plus side though, not having to use specialized materials and cost is a big incentive to use it especially as a testbed.

I suppose the rigidity problem could be solved if the paper was put into appropriate configurations, I remember in middle school me and my classmates were given a sheet of paper and asked to make it hold up the weight of bricks, I turned my sheet into 6 small cylinders and it held up 10 bricks before subsiding. So I guess at the very least a long paper tube could become a foolproof motor mount if you spread the pressure from the elastic evenly at both sides of the tube
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Dalat
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« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2014, 07:27:05 PM »

yes you get it...Upon your Memory to middle School, we could say like a French popular Statement : "la culture est ce qui reste
après avoir tout oublié"...That is culture: what still remains after one hast all forgotten.
Specially, the best way to save weight ist to reinforce afterward These breakareas..
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« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2014, 11:53:06 PM »

Je sais un peux de français mais merci pour le translation.

mais les problems qui recurrent sont avec les formes qui sont forte, ils ne peux pas feront dans le forme d'un avion  Grin

I could keep going but I feel I'm straining credibility as it is, it's my second language but it's been years, I'll be studying it again this summer though

my point though remains though it's difficult to reconcile geometric shapes to aeroplanes and vice versa actually, but since it's paper, design failure is inexpensive!
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Dalat
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« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2014, 08:23:18 AM »

In my opinion French is not so widely used like in the past as " Diplomatic language " . Now nearly nobody has to use it even in diplomacy "SCENE"  Roll Eyes. You may have other higher priority .
Just to the Point of geometry 2D and 3D objects: These HUGE SHIPS HULLS are made from many,many Metal Planks/Sheets being soldered together...A compromis occurs to get those beautiful 3D shapes to press These in "developable ?" forms...it is a question of high or lower Definition/density...My F104G Body is from 7 or 8 cylinders/cones putted together, from a distance of 2 feet we don't
remark it, and the main esthetic of his shape is still preserved...Plastik or vacuform models ( 1/72 to 1/48) have true 3D shapes but are often grounded!
Sometimes These paper shapes can be pressedto a hihger Transition from 2D to nealy 3D...Please refer to These HIGH QUALITY Paper models in Internet such as those from E. Sarkov, they are real concuurent to the Museum Plastik ones...
I have just apply this Technik to this F104G, and the good News are that. we can push The Details of These rivets, Panels, painting scheme etc..with PC Printer..and so on... just have fun and set your creativity free.
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« Reply #45 on: July 05, 2015, 04:52:19 AM »

Anything else happening please?
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Dalat
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« Reply #46 on: March 07, 2017, 05:50:27 PM »

I have just finished this MiG17 at the beginning of March 2017.
and meet A new challenge, not so big as those of the f104G, with this one by placing the ducted fan forward the Pilot cabin.
I  risk this configuration to save weight with the target to discard ballast for CG Balance and preserve the scale form of the exhaus. I don't want to get busy with Aerodymamic theories and formulas to prove the very low sens of this configuration.
and just try news conbinations. ... Always facing with this unconfortable questions: willl it have enough thrust to flly with
the stream of air traversing the entire fuselage from front-nose/25mm diam.- to Middle Station 31 mm and exhaus 20mm. ?
Against every reasonable thinking i build it, as i have done with the F104G...Try something unusual ist a Hobby too.
On the first indoor test: This MiG 17 hast enough power to fly and not prolonged glide...Now he Needs finer Tuning and appropriate rubber size to be custom cut
The F104G as Show was burned/destructed...from personal reason.
I Forget this MiG 17 fow now and begin the assembly of an Mirage III S Swiss AF, and hope to test fly  both together and compare.

yours

Dalat
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: RDF in Pistachio Scale
Re: RDF in Pistachio Scale
Re: RDF in Pistachio Scale
Re: RDF in Pistachio Scale
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« Reply #47 on: March 10, 2017, 07:02:44 PM »

3-10-2017

These models are incredible!!!! I want to see more, well done!!!!  Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

Cheers, Ray K.

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« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2017, 11:07:27 AM »

http://www.bryansweb.com/indoor_1998-1999.htm Just saw this looking around the internet

Ross
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Dalat
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« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2017, 08:12:11 PM »

Thank you Ross for the Picture of this sort of scale  Grumman Panther RDF von Dave Aronstein.
This one comes very close to 1 min fly time, thanks his very large Diameter fuselage nearly 3 times more than
those of the MiG 17 or F104G Starfighter, that I builded.
 Do you want to build this one ?

Cheers,   Dalat
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