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Author Topic: Enya .35-V TV right engine for Falcon III?  (Read 1431 times)
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ghostler
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« on: September 07, 2013, 11:00:02 AM »

I've got a new in the box 1980's vintage Enya .35-V TV, that has been bench run. I've got several mufflers for it, Tatone Peace Pipe .45-.65 short offset (yes, I've learned to go up one size with these), standard Enya muffler, and a Kavan with mount adapter, so I have my choice of poison. The Kavan and Tatone have a larger outlet, so they are freer blowing.  Grin

Will this engine provide me with enough power to fly my new in the box Goldberg Falcon III 56" wingspan full house shoulder wing kit I'm planning to build?

Back in the old days, the original Falcon 56 used .35 power of the day to fly it. I remember a Falcon powered by a Fox .25 in the late 1970's that flew well with it at the RC park in Hawaii off the Pali Highway on way to Kaneohe.

BTW I'm at a 4,300 feet elevation, usually fly with 15% nitro at this elevation, which helps.

So, should I go with this engine, or install a modern more powerful .40 Schneurle in it?
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George Hostler
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« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2013, 11:57:49 PM »

I've got a new in the box 1980's vintage Enya .35-V TV, that has been bench run. I've got several mufflers for it, Tatone Peace Pipe .45-.65 short offset (yes, I've learned to go up one size with these), standard Enya muffler, and a Kavan with mount adapter, so I have my choice of poison. The Kavan and Tatone have a larger outlet, so they are freer blowing.  Grin

Will this engine provide me with enough power to fly my new in the box Goldberg Falcon III 56" wingspan full house shoulder wing kit I'm planning to build?

Back in the old days, the original Falcon 56 used .35 power of the day to fly it. I remember a Falcon powered by a Fox .25 in the late 1970's that flew well with it at the RC park in Hawaii off the Pali Highway on way to Kaneohe.

BTW I'm at a 4,300 feet elevation, usually fly with 15% nitro at this elevation, which helps.

So, should I go with this engine, or install a modern more powerful .40 Schneurle in it?
The Enya 35TV will be a perfect match for the Falcon. I'd stick with the stock muffler. As the Enya is a lapped iron piston in a steel liner please use a fuel that has 20% to 22+% oil content and the oil should be 100% castor oil. I think Sig sells such a fuel.

I'm not one that favors nitro fuels. I'd think 15% is more than enough. I flew a lot in the Denver area 5K to 6K feet and often preferred  low nitro fuels. Remember you don't have as much air to cool the engine. So the added heat from the high nitro fuel could cause problems. I flew a Falcon II (I think) on a Fox 19BB and while it was fine I think that with todays lighter 2.4 Ghz radios and mini servos the old Fox 19BB would be almost a perfect match.

FYI; The new Fox 25BB actually is more powerful than the old baffle Enya 35tv.

All the best,
Konrad

FYI:
I assume you have the slightly more modern Enya 35V TV, but
http://sceptreflight.net/Model%20Engine%20Tests/Enya%2035-II%20TV.html

The Fox 25BB is better still but this is what I was able to find, the Fox 19BB
http://sceptreflight.net/Model%20Engine%20Tests/Fox%2019BB%20RC%20(2).html
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 12:15:47 AM by Konrad » Logged

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Gcedillo
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« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2013, 09:13:29 PM »

Im flying a falcon III with an os .46 AX, this kit is a bit on the heavy side compared to the falcon II due to the ply fuselage and heavy balsa ( maybe my kit only?), maybe a bushed .4 or .46 will do, I've never had  the oportunity to use an Enya .35.
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ghostler
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« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2013, 10:16:02 PM »

I'm flying a falcon III with an os .46 AX, this kit is a bit on the heavy side compared to the falcon II due to the ply fuselage and heavy balsa ( maybe my kit only?), maybe a bushed .4 or .46 will do, I've never had  the oportunity to use an Enya .35.
Thanks Gcedillo for your inputs.

I'm inclined to concur with Konrad that the Enya .35-V TV ought to be okay, as long as I use an unrestrictive muffler, OEM or better. Yes, the Falcon III is a touch heavier with the light plywood sides, but other than that it follows the same standard construction, sides have lightening holes in it. I plan to use lighter servos and radio equipment. Also I do a lot of sanding to round edges and true up airfoil surfaces, and build within reason to keep light.

According to the Spectre report, it can turn up to an 11x5. If like my other Enyas, its power will very well get close to that of a Schneurle if one runs larger diameter or larger pitched props to keep within its torque band. If like my other Enyas, it won't do well running smaller props as at higher RPMs one gets out of its torque band. I have a Flitecraft 58" Piper Cub all foam and plastic ARF with OS Max .40-FP on it. It weighs 5.5 lbs. The Falcon III will be lighter than the Cub and should work well with the Enya. To keep weight down, I am going with lightweight foam tires as well.

Being somewhat lighter it should fly on its wings, plus be easier to land. It should be a fun flier once I start building. If not, I always have the option to upgrade the engine.  Wink
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George Hostler
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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2013, 09:26:24 PM »

Well the flying envelope of this plane is wide enough to experiment with different engines, I like your idea.
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« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2013, 12:59:49 AM »

I like your idea too and think you're on the right track with the Enya. An interesting journey down memory lane for me, just trying to remember how well the Enya .35 I had pulled my planes around but those are really old memories...

I'm curious what the driving force for this project is and hoping you post pictures when it's done.
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ghostler
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« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2013, 09:07:02 AM »

I like your idea too and think you're on the right track with the Enya. An interesting journey down memory lane for me, just trying to remember how well the Enya .35 I had pulled my planes around but those are really old memories... I'm curious what the driving force for this project is and hoping you post pictures when it's done.
Driving force is quite simple: I have the kit and the engine. I bought the engine in the late 1970's from a clearance sale, a European Kevin muffler from Sig in the 1990's, but never put it in a plane. The Falcon III is the latest iteration of the old Falcon 56 of the early 1960's or late 1950's and as such, almost begs for a legacy engine to be installed in it.

Since, I've acquired other Enyas, and after running them, both a 1966 .09-III TV with Tatone Peace Pipe muffler and .15-III TV with later Enya muffler, am amazed at how well they perform, able to compete with plain bearing sport Schneurles, if properly propped. The .09 runs well with a 7x6 wood prop. The .15 performs well on an 8x6 prop, keeping up with my OS Max .15-FP. They do require a proper break in, being iron piston and steel cylinder sleeve, but am told they will run almost forever.

I've also got an Enya .19-VI TV that I plan to put in possibly a 50" span Lou Andrews S-Ray kit or may be a 48" span Airco Aerosport kit, odd swept wing cabin RC of the early 1960's. I've picked up another Enya .15-III TV for a Hobby Shack Real Thing kit. It is no wonder why the late Bill Winter was disappointed when manufacturers discontinued sale of the cross scavenged baffle piston engines. He loved them for their good fuel economy and torque.

Over the years I've collected these kits, but was so busy with work didn't have the time to build. Now that I have retired, am able to construct these.
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George Hostler
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« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2013, 12:27:47 PM »

Thanks for the reply, it sounds like you will have a blast.  

I wasn't far sighted enough to hang on to the kits I didn't have the time to build over the years or I couldn't justify hanging on to them at the time.  I still have quite a few engines from the same time periods as the kits I let go of and should follow your lead and put them in something appropriate.

I am currently flying a Falcon 56 clone (GP Easy Sport 40 ARF) that I rescued from the trash after a flying buddy crashed it. I wasn't really sure it was going to be worth the extensive rebuilding it would need but I am enjoying it a lot now that it's done, a great flying plane just like the Falcon was as I remember it. A timeless design as is the Enya .35 and although I'm using an old .61 FS I think the power would be very comparable.  I did convert it to a tail-dragger though. Here's a stock picture of it when it looked more like a Falcon and another just short of completion...

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mjmccarron
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« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2014, 11:26:46 PM »

I have a Falcon 56 Mk II which I have used as a test bed for many different engines, 2 stroke glow, 4 stroke glow and 2 stoke diesel. While I think the Enya .35 is a fine engine, it may prove a bit weak in the heavier Falcon III at 4300 ft elevation for anything more than gentle trainer like performance. I also would not recommend higher nitro fuels for this engine as the extra heat will cause the lapped iron piston to wear prematurely and loose its seal. I typically don't run over 15% nitro except in ringed engines. Even modern ABC engines will wear faster as higher nitro content causes the pistons to expand and wear very quickly.
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« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2015, 11:46:38 PM »

Ghostler ...

You made me laugh out loud.

           " Back in the old days, the original Falcon 56 used .35 power of the day to fly it. I remember a Falcon powered by a Fox .25 in the late 1970's that flew well with it at the RC park in                                                         Hawaii off the Pali Highway on way to Kaneohe."

Back in the "OLD" Days it was a Senior Falcon with a 72" wing span, I still have mine, and it's plan. Silk covered, red Wing and black Fuse. I used an Enya .60 on it and it flew great. Then came out with a Falcon 56. It has been aroud MANY years. At our field one day a guy brought out his brand new Falcon 56. Took it off and was showing off. As he was about 80 ft high going away from me (to my back) he then proceeded into a 180 Degree turn, I heard a very distinct noise I didn't like and turned to see the wing and the Fuselage part ways. The Fuse was heading at me like a bullet, Engine screaming at full throttle, just like a Rocket, and not knowing which way it was going to go in the end I stood there and then dodged that bullet. The Fuse went through 3 car windows of 2 cars. And as they say I forgot, the wing was still not down and was flipping down like a leaf rolling, so I jumped out of it's way, I thought. Then it quit flipping and headed right at the ground like a dart, inverted, and Glanced off my right shoulder and head and broke at mid point. I was never impressed with the flyer as he only put 1 rubber band on the wing. He was known for doing stupid stuff like that.

But back to the Senior Falcon. I built it in 70 or 71, Before plastic coverings, and before I went to Vietnam, as I took it with me. I am going to use this new laptop I bought for modeling, Plans, CAD, and the like. I am going to redo Sr. Falcon plan first, as I've been playing with the idea of building another one. It's almost like the Falcon 56 except it doesn't have all the Dihedral, and it has full Balsa Wing Tips, not theangle cut ones. It's a Taildragger, same box Fuselage front to back, the wing is all capped ribs and mostly covered with balsa, not sure how the Falcon56 Wing is, except I know it breaks. The original plan had the empennage section cut off and added at another place on the drawing as I was too big for the one sheet.
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BBailey
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« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2015, 12:24:53 AM »

Hi, BBailey, that is quite a story with someone's Falcon 56. Yes, it does help to ensure adequate rubber bands. Interestingly enough, a search on http://www.outerzone.co.uk/ using string falcon by:goldberg will bring up the original Falcon 56, Senior Falcon, Falcon 56-II and Carl's 1/2-A Junior Falcon plan links.

I've got the original 56 and senior plans, but the 56-III kit. Looking it over, the original Falcon had a light duty wing, for single channel flying on a .15 would probably be more than adequate as the radio gear was light weight along with the engine and 2 oz. fuel tank. Plus one back then would cover the model in silk, which if just clear doped and trimmed in color would result in a light finish with a light plane.

With the last iteration with version III, wing has been strengthened but with overall model weight gain. Dihedral is reduced down to norms.

Older I get big is beautiful, and a Senior Falcon would be a nice size in plane.
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George Hostler
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« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2015, 01:07:32 AM »

ghostler ...

Outerzone is good and so is AeroFred. He has just short of 15,000 plans, free. I'm trying to help him write the descriptions for them. Then I found this site and have to spend a few days.

Yeah ... I just thought I would tell it. I was an Officier of the Battle Creek Balsa Bees. That same guy interrupted me when I was flying my Piper Pacer also 72", he was talking to someone and I was in a dive way out south and he grabbed me trying to get my radio ... thought I fell aspleep or somthing. Turned her into a rekit through the trees. But I have another one of those also in a box kit. By the way AMA didn't pay for that ... His Insurance had to. AMA does't pay for stupidty. They wondered why a single fuselage went through a Windshield, and 2 side windows and the wing wasn't there. We didn't have Pilot fencing to protect other flyers from runaway planes. I got hit 3 times total, same group, never by a motor, only parts of planes.

Anyway the Senior Falcon has seen better days. It has been so many years that the glue joints have given up. I thought about ripping the skin off and seeing if I could reglue it and recover it, but I don't know. I wouldn't want to have her break up in flight. What are your thoughts on that. The Fuselage is built a rock.

If you build a new one, let's do it together. I'm in Michigan and I see your in NM. I get out to Vegas once in awhile maybe we can fly them. I knew they had others also but I don't have those plans. I was surprised by the Falcon III. I was sure they were done and gone like so many of the other great old planes by now.
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BBailey
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« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2015, 09:00:43 PM »

I assume that you are not a very experienced pilot; the experienced ones don't ask.  So yes, I think the 35V will be fine; I've never flown at your altitude, but I'll take the word of a couple others who spoke up.

I also like your plans for the Enya 19 VI and the 15 III.  I like those old cross-flow iron piston engines too.  While it's true that many of them will take a larger prop than some others of the same displacement, I think it's not true for the 19 VI.  My Enya 19 IV is totally happy on a 10x4 or even 11x4, but my 19 V sounds labored on anything over a 9x4 or maybe a 9x5.  It will turn a 9x4 much faster than the earlier engine.

Your 15 III, on the other hand, will have no trouble with a 9x4, which is large by 15 standards, and even a 10x4.  I'm sure the 35 will be fine on an 11x5, but I'd try an 11x4 too, for comparison.

Jim

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ghostler
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« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2017, 04:24:37 PM »

Ghostler ... You made me laugh out loud. "Back in the old days, the original Falcon 56 used .35 power of the day to fly it. I remember a Falcon powered by a Fox .25 in the late 1970's that flew well with it at the RC park in Hawaii off the Pali Highway on way to Kaneohe."

Back in the "OLD" Days it was a Senior Falcon with a 72" wing span, I still have mine, and it's plan. Silk covered, red Wing and black Fuse. I used an Enya .60 on it and it flew great. Then came out with a Falcon 56. It has been aroud MANY years.

Was that you? I thought I was referring to my "old days", not yours, LOL! Grin Thank you for your service and sacrifice. I joined the Army later, 2 years prior to final Vietnam pull out in 1974, but was never sent, spent it stateside. Was transferred to Schofield Barracks in 1974, after the 25th returned from Korea. Some doc mentioned pointers on dementia, but I can't remember the details. Cheesy

I assume that you are not a very experienced pilot; the experienced ones don't ask.  So yes, I think the 35V will be fine; I've never flown at your altitude, but I'll take the word of a couple others who spoke up.

Regarding experience, experience is relative. Wink Flying larger .35 RC aircraft? No. Flying smaller aircraft? Yes. My familiarity with .35's comes from flying CL, hence this is why I asked. Thanks for all the inputs; heavier weight of the latest version of the aircraft and my silk and dope days are gone, my MDS Pro .46 BB will be the way to go given the elevation I'm at and its heavier weight plus our winds. The Enya .35 would be good in something like a 72" Buzzard Bombshell or Kadet Senior, IMO. Cool

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Your 15 III, on the other hand, will have no trouble with a 9x4, which is large by 15 standards, and even a 10x4.  I'm sure the 35 will be fine on an 11x5, but I'd try an 11x4 too, for comparison. Jim

I'm really impressed with how the .15-III TV performs. I replaced the OS Max .15FP-S with it, throttle wired wide open on my Ringmaster Junior. On 50 foot lines on a Masters 8x6 in wet 2 cycle, it had the same lap speeds as the OS with Masters 8x4 on a faster wet 2 cycle. It also is able crack for wet-2 to lean-2 in stunts and revert to wet-2 in level flight. These older Enya's are amazing engines, I wish I discovered them earlier.

Anyway, life is too short to continue chewing the fat. Thanks, all.
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George Hostler
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