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Author Topic: Design a New Outdoor Event Discussion  (Read 7245 times)
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Dan G.
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« Reply #50 on: March 18, 2008, 08:27:50 PM »

That "Senator" ... is that the one with the stab on the bottom of the fuselage, so complicating the dt design?. I also walked away from one, about a third built. I think I detect some feelings I have also had (well ... after fifty-plus years of modelling). It's kinda sad in a way, but this website has fired me up a bit. Maybe if I had been already posting on SFA (I just had a peek at that website's forum) for the last few years, my depression (in modelling activity) would have settled in again.

Dan G.
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applehoney
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« Reply #51 on: March 18, 2008, 09:51:36 PM »

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is that the one with the stab on the bottom of the fuselage, so complicating the dt design?.

No complication - I just tip up the wing LE, comes down like a shot duck. Have built several over the years, great airplanes; my last-but-one flew for 16 years and never dropped a 2-minute max, other than by my own short-fusing it. Then I put it under the car, out of the sun .. and forgot about it ....
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Dan G.
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« Reply #52 on: March 18, 2008, 11:51:57 PM »

Okay -- applehoney -- but I don't think that I've ever seen a tilting wing that was as simple as a tilting stab. It just seemed like an unnecessary complication.

Sigh, models under the car ... a little side trip, here ... I once partnered-up with a bud and we shared the construction of four identical F1A gliders -- he made the fully sheeted wings, I did the fuselages, tails, and circle/bunt tow-hooks (pretty new ideas at the time, circa 1970). Comes the first event of the spring, while biding his time to begin testing, my dear bud slipped his model box with his two F1As, which would just fit under the rear of his car. The wind picked-up -- which we expected (when doesn't it) -- and the decision to move control was made. Everyone jumped into their cars and he did likewise. I watched, frozen, while that Volvo rose a little, as the barely fitting box rolled on its diagonal. It offered little resistance though, and the car sank back before the rear wheels just flattened everything.

It was a very sad event and everyone was thoroughly dumbstruck. He never built another model and no one was surprised.

Dan G.
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« Reply #53 on: April 01, 2008, 04:24:09 PM »

Reading through the proposals on this I see that, in effect, this event would be available for North American members only.
The reason for this assumption is that, in the flying guidelines, there is talk of taping pennies to the model.Now down here in the South Pacific we went from shillings and pence to dollars and cents in 1967 so forty years down the track a penny is pretty hard to find. Also a penny was fairly large and weighed about 10 grams. In fact over the period of forty years even one, two and five cent coins have been withdrawn from circulation.
So unless some other form of readily available ballast weight is selected the reat of the world will have to just sit and watch.

(I've never heard of the US using pennies, not since around independance time anyway.)
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applehoney
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« Reply #54 on: April 01, 2008, 04:42:00 PM »

It's available to you, Kiwi  - how many pennies can I send you?
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DerekMc
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« Reply #55 on: April 01, 2008, 11:59:48 PM »

(I've never heard of the US using pennies, not since around independance time anyway.)

O we have them all right. They tend to sit in jars until you feel like going to the bank amd dumping them in a coin counting machine.

As for sitting and watching all the fun, just stick 2.5 grams (weight of a Canadian penny) of something on the plane and go for it!

Derek
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Dan G.
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« Reply #56 on: April 02, 2008, 01:21:35 AM »

Maybe you're putting us on Kiwi ... but you are aware that to us North Americans, a penny is a one cent coin, more akin to your old ha'penny? Probably not that different in weight, either.

Dan G.
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Sundance12
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« Reply #57 on: July 23, 2008, 05:02:49 PM »

No there is no requirement for anyone to incorporate a complex prop and front end in this hip pocket postal class. I hope that this feature did not scare anyone off?

Sundance12

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schnellwilli
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« Reply #58 on: February 10, 2009, 09:19:33 AM »

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the only trouble is that a d/t isn't practical (too much weight!) so lifespan is potentially short. I think it might handle the short ....

One way to DT a small, light model is to fit the nose loosely so it falls out of the model when the motor runs down. Another is to disable the freewheeling device. Both methods reduce endurance and will not take a model out of a strong thermal but work most of the time. When flying my 10 gm Chambermaid P-nut in local P-Nut Scale events with long motors, the prop fall out method usually worked although I lost two of these models OOS with the prop dangling from the nose. Since the motor run was about 90 seconds, the reduced endurance did not matter that much in the final score.
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« Reply #59 on: February 10, 2009, 09:35:50 AM »

Bill,

 On models like this, I generally use a pop-off wing. And example would be the embryo I used in this event, though all my flights were in the damp evening, so the DT didn't get used.

 I've never found jamming the freewheeler to accomplish anything. About a year ago my Goon pnut spent over 14 minutes with it's prop stuck, gliding peacefully. It has always had problems with the freewheeler, and I have never noticed any difference in performance with the freewheeler working or not. This is not to say that freewheeling is bad, as it generally at least can't hurt (except on electrics, where I've noticed a marked reduction in glide performance).

 The dropping noseblock is the same way. Sometimes it will make the model come down like a shot duck, sometimes you can't even tell that anything has happened. I've lost several models that way and finally gave up on that method. DT systems are getting so light now that they are practical even on some peanuts these days.

 As a side note, although there apparently hasn't been further interest in this contest, I really think that it deserves more attention, being a great type of design for small fields, or any field, for that matter, because it eliminates that marathon flyoffs while still avoiding sacrificial unlimited flyoffs like what you encounter with FAC endurance events. It also takes out the luck factor you see with target times.
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schnellwilli
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« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2009, 10:12:00 AM »

Maxout said,
"I've never found jamming the freewheeler to accomplish anything"

I said this once before........ Those times when I had good fortune and success in contests are mostly vague memories or forgotten altogether..
Those instances when I did something stupid, or something unusual happened to cause me to lose, are clearly etched in my memory. Some of those memories involved cases of jammed FWrs which caused models to spiral in or, at least rduce their time in the air. The most recent was when the prop jammed on my Helio at 2006 Geneseo causing me to miss a third max and bumping me down to 3rd in Mod. Civil. One case of a very light model thermalling with a stuck prop or jammed FWer proves nothing. As I said, two of my CM P-Nuts were lost in strong thermals with the props dangling from their noses.Either of those problems will usually be enough to bring a model out of a light thermal. Using a wing DT requires the use of a timer which, as Applehony said, would create a significant weight penalty to the tiny, light model shown on his drawing.We are not talking about P-30s.
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wingleader
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« Reply #61 on: September 12, 2009, 12:33:23 AM »

Interesting topic of discussion. This is a little remote from the various ideas posted, but here goes with my own 2 cents.
Has anyone thought of an event where you could do your own new designs and not be limited to so many pre-conceived ideas as to what fits the cookie-cutter idea of the right plane design needed to win?

What i'm talking about is a sleek model with a 24 inch maximum length, a 16 inch maximum wingspan, the rubber is enclosed in the fuselage and the leading edge of the wing must be straight, not curved or eliptical.
Points would be scored according to the angle of the wings x 2 in relation to the planes centreline through the fuselage and added to the flight times in seconds. Since these are all unique designs or bare a slight resemblance to some modern day fighter jets their appearance would be judged on the quality of the finish, interest of the colour scheme etc. and would be worth a small number of points so as not to detract from the main 2 criteria to score.
 
An example: Your own design somewhat like an f-15. Lets say your leading edge is at 44 degrees, you score 44x2=88 points. With a 40 second flight your total score before static judging would be 128 points.

In theory this scoring with heavy emphasis on swept wings or lifting bodies would encourage never before seen designs and be a completely new type of venue for someone looking for a fresh approach to flying.

This may be far out but it's been on my mind for some time. Oh ya I almost forgot to mention all the props would be rear mounted and limited in size.

Now that that's out of my system everyone resume your normal activities...Gerard
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« Reply #62 on: September 12, 2009, 10:12:03 AM »

Interesting topic of discussion. This is a little remote from the various ideas posted, but here goes with my own 2 cents. Has anyone thought of an event where you could do your own new designs and not be limited to so many pre-conceived ideas as to what fits the cookie-cutter idea of the right plane design needed to win?

What i'm talking about is a sleek model with a 24 inch maximum length, a 16 inch maximum wingspan, the rubber is enclosed in the fuselage and the leading edge of the wing must be straight, not curved or elliptical. Points would be scored according to the angle of the wings x 2 in relation to the planes centreline through the fuselage and added to the flight times in seconds. Since these are all unique designs or bare a slight resemblance to some modern day fighter jets their appearance would be judged on the quality of the finish, interest of the colour scheme etc. and would be worth a small number of points so as not to detract from the main 2 criteria to score.
 
An example: Your own design somewhat like an f-15. Lets say your leading edge is at 44 degrees, you score 44x2=88 points. With a 40 second flight your total score before static judging would be 128 points.

In theory this scoring with heavy emphasis on swept wings or lifting bodies would encourage never before seen designs and be a completely new type of venue for someone looking for a fresh approach to flying.

This may be far out but it's been on my mind for some time. Oh ya I almost forgot to mention all the props would be rear mounted and limited in size.

Now that that's out of my system everyone resume your normal activities...Gerard
H'mmmm. Could be "interesting". I'm a sucker for "other" design types Roll Eyes. Have u tried any of these design ideas yet (is it feasable)?

Pete
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« Reply #63 on: September 12, 2009, 12:49:24 PM »

I dunno...can't get really excited about the idea. I built a 12" pusher several year back (still have it) that had tapered wings swept back about 45 deg. Prop was a 6" Peck, and a long loop of 1/8 would put it up about 2 minutes. Of course the motor was not enclosed, but that is a draggier setup than an enclosed motor, and saves little if any weight.
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wingleader
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« Reply #64 on: September 12, 2009, 09:02:37 PM »

Pete I hav"nt done any of this type of model yet, but I have been thinking about them just for a change of pace.
WW2 warbirds are my personal favorite but there are some modern military types that would also provide a whole different set of challenges.
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Mark Braunlich
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« Reply #65 on: September 14, 2009, 08:05:10 PM »

Points would be scored according to the angle of the wings x 2 in relation to the planes centreline through the fuselage and added to the flight times in seconds....Gerard

Just a hunch that you really meant to say: "angle between the leading edge of the wings (in degrees) and a line perpendicular to the centreline of the fuselage x 2". Otherwise, as you have stated it above, the maximum number of points would be scored by a conventional airplane with no sweepback where the angle between wings and centreline is 90°. 2 x 90 = 180

Mark
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« Reply #66 on: August 09, 2018, 11:42:34 PM »

The Black Sheep Squadron already has a contest for a model that flies on a 20" loop of 1/8" tan rubber, Wade Wiley's Basin Flier.  We hold the contest several times a year at the Grassy Knoll area in the Sepulveda Basin. The idea was to have a simple, good performing model that will (usually) stay within the confines of the Grassy Knoll (otherwise known as "the Minute Field".) It's almost absurdly simple and even the FAC guys here are into it.

Full size plans available.

KF
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