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Author Topic: Guillow's 900 Series Kits Built Peanut Scale Size.  (Read 2802 times)
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Maxout
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« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2014, 09:23:35 AM »

Most people that would comment on this question would tell you that 3- and 4-blade props are less efficient than 2-bladed props.  That's the party line.  Most people that have an opinion about props will tell you why they think that Prop A is better than Prop B.  Some will even back it up with formulae, etc.

My remark would be that personal experience indicates that props with more than two blades are a pain in the rear because they're always breaking. I've also never had success with props having more than two blades. Some folks insist on them for the scale appearance, but I can't tell the difference in flight. It's also really hard to balance three bladers, and the more blades you have, the more blades you have out of pitch with the other blades. I have enough trouble getting two blades to match.

I've seen a number of folks encounter a lot of trouble trimming models with three-four bladers and then finally put a two blade on, and all the problems go away.

Just my $0.2, sans theory. Wink
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Widdog
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« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2014, 09:15:15 PM »

Thanks for the great comments.

Unfortunately the write up said that this ol Steve Patti  kit may or may not fly well. Also the plans don't say anything about flying. I found a 4 inch propeller(Shorty's Basement) that has more pitch than a Peck Polymer propeller. I am really looking forward to adding this propeller to my collection. iMHO it seemed that the Peck Polymer "4 inch" propeller did not have enough bite.

If I remember correctly this Peck Polymer kit came with a 4 inch propeller. IMHO it flew better with the 4.75 inch propeller. I felt the 4 inch propeller didn't have enough bite. However, You can see the model "Wobbling " with the larger diameter propeller. This "Wobbling" is the same problem my Steve Patti kit is having. However with the PP 4 inch propeller it does stop wobbling. The problem is that the motor unwinds or runs out of power to quickly.

http://youtu.be/kTnUMI75SzQ

Keith

Keith
















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OZPAF
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« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2014, 05:18:05 AM »

Keith FWIW - I think your cub is flying too close o the stall - the rocking from wing tip to wing tip indicates this, followed by a full stall once the power is finished.
I noticed that you have a fairly large weight on the nose and yet it is still stalling. I think I would rather push up the LE of the tail in small steps - 1/64" or so till you  have a better glide and perhaps you could also then remove some nose weight.
Thats my 2c worth hope it helps.
John
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Widdog
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« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2014, 09:23:16 AM »

Thanks OZPAF,

That video was one of my first attempts at the Peanut Scale models. Your initial assessment is very accurate. I did notice on the Mark Drela build that the plans called for a 3  bladed propeller. To be honest I have not had any real luck at propeller carving in the past. I guess it takes practice and is difficult. Oh well I guess I'm going to try it again.     
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Jimmy JFlyer
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« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2014, 07:08:52 PM »

Keith, I really enjoyed reading your posts & watching your vids. I have very limited flying sites in my area and most are small ball fields so I have been looking at smaller planes, embryos and of course the various Guillows kits that all the LHS's in my area carry.

Keep up the great work & R&D! This has been a good learning thread for me.  Smiley

Regards,
Jimmy
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Widdog
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« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2014, 04:47:44 PM »

I apologize in advance for the poor quality of this video. Its not suppose to be a video on flying but more conformation that I am using a baseball field.

http://youtu.be/0xsOpXquioY.  The scaled down Guillow's Bird Dog was a lot of fun to fly on the baseball field. I would like to have a indoor flying area. I guess who wouldn't? I would rather build the regular size 900 Series kits but due to small flying area I will be building a Peanut of the Trojan.
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bobson
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« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2014, 07:02:50 PM »

Widdog, great flights on your peanut size bird dog. Does it have some kind of a removable nose block?
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Widdog
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« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2014, 09:29:48 PM »

Widdog,  Does it have some kind of a removable nose block?

I just wanted to say that this model was built solely for flight opps experimenting and not for looking at. I think the experiment was sort of a success. These models are designed, as the catalog used to say as "Rubber Powered Jobs." Designed with ample wing area, dihedral and large tail surfaces. I think I would say it's a good Peanut Semi Scale flyer.

I pretty much built the Bird Dog per the reduced plans. It does have a removable nose block. I did stretch wind the model's rubber motor.

I am working on the reduced Trojan now and will post pictures of the build.

 
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Widdog
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« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2014, 07:16:13 AM »

I deleted the last video due to poor quality. This video seems somewhat better. Also on the second flight I made Rookie mistake and didn't have a downward thrust shim in place.

http://youtu.be/8E1QWN1THYY
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Widdog
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« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2014, 09:05:57 PM »

I think I'm getting better at posting pictures. Anyway this is the bones of a  Guillow's T 28D Trojan reduced to Peanut Size. So far no problems with the build. Everything seems to be fitting together nicely.
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Widdog
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« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2014, 11:32:49 AM »

Here is the flight video of the Guillow's T 28 reduced to a Peanut Sized model.

http://youtu.be/P4zDNqiiiIQ

I started working on the Pres Bruning Focke Wulf TA 154. I am working on making the propellers. If I can build them I will make a post about the build.
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« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2014, 11:52:01 AM »

You're getting some decent flights out of your planes.

-george
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Widdog
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« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2014, 04:17:58 PM »

Thanks George,

according to the people at the park I am getting better as well. I am still trying to start a FF club here in Morgantown.

My propeller test of the Press Bruning Focke Wulf TA 154 have been coming along nicely. I decided to go ahead and start a build thread.
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OZPAF
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« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2014, 07:26:10 PM »

The T28 looks well trimmed WD. I noticed that you have perservered with flying to the right under power and you have it tamed. Nice run and glide as well.
How have you trimmed it WD?
John
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Dave Andreski
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« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2014, 07:49:22 PM »

Good goin' there WD!
Keep it up.
Dave
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Widdog
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« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2014, 08:29:21 PM »

I don't have a FF club so the way I learn is by posting video here. Actually I used to even post trim flights. I think I'm going to stop with the trim flight posting. Because, I kind of got a feel for it now. I've learned that with these Guillow's kits reduced is that I like the Sport Scale models. They are much easer to trim than a true scale model. Even my Mark Drela designed Corsair had larger tail structures. I use a wood 1/16 inch shim at the 2 o'clock position. I use the Guillow's Thrust Buttons as well. I have a real passion for the hobby so even when things don't work out. i.e. my Steve Patti FW 190 peanut I kind of live and learn from my mistakes.

Keith

 

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Mooney
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« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2014, 09:14:33 PM »

IMHO, you are doing really well considering that you're blazing the trail alone with only minimal help from this forum.  I hope you get an opportunity to fly w/some other FF'ers because it will help you and probably blow you away.  And you'll likely be very inspired.  But as it is, you're kickin' butt.  I struggled to understand many trimming issues until I saw first hand from other modelers, but like you I started w/ Guillow's.  Not ideal.  I still build'em and think they're fine, but not ideal designs to easily experience good flights.
BTW, I have found the prop bearings by Guillow's to have slop in them, if you can get some others from Volare or Easybuilt you will appreciate the precision.

You might enjoy building a few dimescale planes from plans.  Scalish but usually fly well.  And @ 16" wingspan, a bit easier to build than peanuts.

Have fun
Moon
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bobson
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« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2014, 09:47:28 PM »

Nice flights. You build these reduced Guillows kits quickly.
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OZPAF
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« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2014, 06:26:56 AM »

Quote
use a wood 1/16 inch shim at the 2 o'clock position
I guess you mean the 2 O'clock position looking from the front. That makes sense - giving you right and down thrust.

Keep it up WD - good on you.
John
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Widdog
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« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2014, 06:49:42 AM »

Your correct about 2 o'clock position looking at the model.

Next I am thinking about reducing the Guillow's Cessna 180 kit no 601 down to Peanut size.
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Widdog
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« Reply #45 on: July 04, 2014, 03:34:02 PM »

Well my last experiment with gluing 2 two bladed 4inch propellers together was not very successful. I did find out that gluing propellers together was strong enough to hold them together. I am now working with a Guillow's 5 inch diameter prop.
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OZPAF
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« Reply #46 on: July 05, 2014, 02:33:29 AM »

A bit of thread or cotton binding may help to give a little more strength without adding much weight.
John
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Widdog
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« Reply #47 on: July 05, 2014, 10:32:47 AM »

Thanks much John,

Yes the glue alone is not strong enough to hold the propeller together. I made a quick video of the 4 blade vs. the oversized 2 bladed prop.

http://youtu.be/8P1Jxcukx1M.
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OZPAF
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« Reply #48 on: July 17, 2014, 06:14:14 AM »

I missed this WD.
What are the actual differences in propeller diameter and what rubber/turns did each prop use in the video.
The 4 blade cruises nicely in the vid but if it is using the same motor/turns it would seem to be well down in thrust compared to the 2 blade prop
Was the Cg/trim set up the the same with both props?
It would be interesting to see the result of a longer run with a bit more thrust on the 4 blader.
John
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« Reply #49 on: July 17, 2014, 01:25:40 PM »

 Grin  just finishing a 900 series mustang.  flies off the board . needs trimming for power selection.

jim
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