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Author Topic: Small Diesel engines for FF oldtimer conversions to R/C  (Read 1433 times)
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Kurt
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« on: February 27, 2014, 02:03:54 PM »

Dear all,
I am not english, but I am as conservative as if I were an Englishman. So it is only natural that I am coming back to oldtimer models and Diesel engines. My friend Chester from Argentina who is also fond of Oldtimer models asked me to show some Diesel engines, which I use in my models. Here they come:
1) german Schlosser Diesel 1 ccm (.061cu inch). Mr Schlosser is still alive in Southern Germany, now about 90 years old and once in a while still produces Diesel engines, .061 and .048 sizes. Mine drives a 7x4 prop, starts easy, even without amylnitrate in the fuel (one cannot get that stuff in Brazil) This motor will power a small Quaker Flash replica, not yet built.
2) english PAW 3ccm (.19 cu inch) built into a historic Oldtimer "Ichabod" designed by Stinson Smith 1948 for the AMA FF nationals. Supereasy starting engine which I operate in Germany with good British fuel
3) russian Norvel 1 ccm (.061 cu inch) glow engine with a Norvel Diesel conversion head, built into my own design "Tiny" (reminding a sport flyer of the 20ties), very critical starting perhaps due to the lack of ignition accelerator/softener, as said above, not available in Brazil. This motor drives a 3-blade 6x3 prop, a 2-blade would be dangerously near to the ground.
4) I intend to buy still a historic replica with 2,5 ccm (.15 cu inch) from the Czech republic, called Letmo 2,5 which has no R/C carb, so there will be a cutout of the full power after so and so many seconds like in the FF competittions
Chester I hope you could get some useful informations. I think you can get sulphuric ether even in Argentina, try the chemical wholesale dealers!
Greetings from Rio,
Kurt
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chester
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WITH MY RC 1-1937 - DESIGNED BY CHESTER LANZO



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« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2014, 02:54:07 PM »

Kurt : ESA WONDERFUL COLLECTION OF ENGINES !
 IN MY CASE AND MY OLD TIMERS THE FLIGHT WITH ENGINES GLOW : OS 25 and 35 , ENYA 40 , FOX 25 , AND HE RECENTLY TESTED THE ASP- CHINESE - IN 15/25 AND 32 AND HAVE REALLY SURPRISED ME .
OBVIOUSLY IN THE CATEGORY OF 1/2 "A" MODELS ARE MY MOTOR WITH A COX 049 ( EL SURE START) AND UP TO NORVEL061 ( GLOW ) .

WITH COMPLICATIONS OF GETTING ETHER HERE IN ARGENTINA ( FROM THE CONTROL ANTI DRUGS ) UNFORTUNATELY DIESEL ENGINES ARE DISAPPEARING AND HOW PALLIATIVE THIS FUEL HERE WE ARE USING START ENGINES JHON DEERE CONTAINING ETHER IN ITS COMPOSITION, AND EMPTYING ESOS SPRAY WE GET tHEN THAT lIQUID MIX WITH kEROSENE AND CASTOR , such as amyl nitrate ( CAN YOU ALSO BUY ) SMALL MIX PROPORTIONS OF AUTOMOBILE LIFT cetane (AL 1.5 / 2%).

BECAUSE OF ALL THIS , IN MY CASE I HAVE JUST STARTED A MOTOR MVVS 15 (2.5 CC) WITH WHICH TO CATEGORY COMPITO " TEXACO " GVRA OF ( RADIO ASSISTED Old Guard ) HERE IN ARGENTINA .

KURT : HOPE TO SEE , THOSE FLYING MODELS YOURS VERY PROMPTLY .

A SINCERE GREETING

Chester
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Oldtimers fan MODELS
Kurt
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« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2014, 08:26:13 AM »

Chester,
I have to make an addition to the "critical starting" of my Diesel converted Norvel .061
After flicking the prop about fifty times by hand with my arm already getting weak I gave the motor (god forgive me !) a short touch with my electro starter and it started immediately runnig nearly at peak power, that means constantly between peak power and a little less, maybe due to small bubbles drawn from the tank. I am revising the tank now, maybe the clunk tube is not tight any more. Anyway the Diesel performance, which means strong suction and ininterrupted running, (no glow plug getting cold and interrupting the running) amazed me. All this with normal selfmixed fuel without any combustion accelerator. I am becoming again an absolute Diesel fan.
Greetings
Kurt
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Kurt
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« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2014, 12:13:47 PM »

Dears (specially Chester)
I am in holidays in Germany and took the chance to purchase some Diesel replicas from the czech republic, the famous MP Jet .040 "classic" and the MP Jet "Super Atom 1,8 ccm " replica, Both were already run-in and you can see the pictures below together with my beloved real oldtimers (purchased when I was a boy) Webra 2,5 ccm and Webra 1,5 ccm.
Greetings,
Kurt
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Re: Small Diesel engines for FF oldtimer conversions to R/C
Re: Small Diesel engines for FF oldtimer conversions to R/C
Re: Small Diesel engines for FF oldtimer conversions to R/C
Re: Small Diesel engines for FF oldtimer conversions to R/C
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hastf1b
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« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2014, 02:19:43 PM »

Hello Kurt, here's the data sheet for Webra 2,5 ccm and for the first Webra 1,5 ccm.

Heinz
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gossie
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« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2014, 05:36:27 PM »

The REKORD has a reverse pitch prop. on it.
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Kurt
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« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2014, 07:11:41 AM »

Hello Kurt, here's the data sheet for Webra 2,5 ccm and for the first Webra 1,5 ccm.

Heinz
Heinz,
37 and 36 Deutsche Mark, this was a fortune for a school boy! Thanks very much for the data sheets!!!
Greetings, Kurt
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Kurt
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« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2014, 07:16:02 AM »

The REKORD has a reverse pitch prop. on it.
Gossie,
the reverse pitch prop is on the blue 2,5 ccm engine, which is the older one. The red 1,5 ccm (Record) I purchased later and it came already with the generally accepted right hand sense (seen from behind)
Anyway, well observed!!!
Greetings,
Kurt
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hastf1b
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« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2014, 07:32:47 AM »


Heinz,
37 and 36 Deutsche Mark, this was a fortune for a school boy! Thanks very much for the data sheets!!!
Greetings, Kurt
[/quote]

Hello Kurt,

Yes, the engines were very expensive. I bought in 1957 Webra Komet he was 8, - DM cheaper than the Webra Mach I. I was in vocational training.

Heinz
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gossie
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« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2014, 05:33:48 PM »

The REKORD has a reverse pitch prop. on it.
Gossie,
the reverse pitch prop is on the blue 2,5 ccm engine, which is the older one. The red 1,5 ccm (Record) I purchased later and it came already with the generally accepted right hand sense (seen from behind)
Anyway, well observed!!!
Greetings,
Kurt

Of course.  Sorry about that, and I should have taken more notice as I have two red head '54 1.5s.   Nice engines.
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BBailey
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« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2015, 10:48:56 PM »

We Americans, at least in this area, don't use diesels. In fact I have never seen a real one. But, I was led to believe that they do have more torque, but also they shake the newer aircraft harder. Can anyone bring me up to speed please? And what is CCM for Diesels are they measured in Cubic Centemeters. If that is right I can convert CI to CM, but How do you convert CI to CCM? Guess it's like my Buddy Fred from Portugal says, another instance where SAE in America is the Standard, but the rest of the World runs on Meteric.
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« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2015, 02:47:44 AM »

The common diesel sizes are :
0.5cc = 0.03cu in
0.75/0.8cc = .049
1.0 cc = 0.06
1.5cc = 0.09
2.5cc = 0.15

I suppose you could quickly draw a graph from 0/0 to 2.5/.15. Then you could work out the Mills 1.3cc which is the best diesel ever for applications like this.
There is no problem with vibration. Starting is a problem until you get the knack
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ffkiwi
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« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2015, 04:16:14 AM »

We Americans, at least in this area, don't use diesels. In fact I have never seen a real one. But, I was led to believe that they do have more torque, but also they shake the newer aircraft harder. Can anyone bring me up to speed please? And what is CCM for Diesels are they measured in Cubic Centemeters. If that is right I can convert CI to CM, but How do you convert CI to CCM? Guess it's like my Buddy Fred from Portugal says, another instance where SAE in America is the Standard, but the rest of the World runs on Meteric.

Its' dead simple-and Bill Dennis touched on it in his reply-the key is 1.0 ccm = .061 cu ins. To convert ccm to cu in MULTIPLY the cc by .061, to convert cu ins to ccm DIVIDE the Cu ins by 0.061  eg 1.5ccx .061 = 0.0915 cu ins
.40 cu ins /.061= 6.557 ccm

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'
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« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2017, 12:33:50 AM »

Diesels are fun, I have about a dozen mostly PAW with 2 Elfins and an E.D Hunter thrown in for variety. The most experience is with a PAW .35 r/c that I bought from Ed Carlson because I wanted to try a diesel, I bought an already built RCM basic bipe hanging in a hobby shop with an ST .40 and swapped in the PAW. It was fun learning to operate the engine and the fact that 6 ounces of fuel would last for 30 minutes at full throttle was a bonus. I had also started flying the SAM old timer events and had a Buccaneer 48 with a O&R .23 that really didn't perform like I had hoped so swapped in a Elfin 2.5 replica that I had purchased for it. The Elfin turned it into a whole different plane with almost vertical climbs and longer glide due to lighter overall weight. Only problem is fuel, some shops carry fuel and some fuel companies will mix and sell through the mail or you can mix your own if you can get all the components. Biggest problem is ether thanks to the druggies, even the fuel suppliers have to go through H**L with rules, permits and whatever to supply those of us who like to run diesels, but what the heck, some countries you cannot get methanol let alone nitromethane so however you can run them.
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Kurt
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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2017, 09:04:17 AM »

Dears,
have a look what happened to the above mentioned Diesel Super Atom 1,8.
I mounted it into a vintage plane, also czech origin, Korzar, by Ledvina 1950. The Diesel pulls it up nearly vertically, till the fuel in the small attached tank ends, normally more than 100 meters (aprox 300 ft)
Greetings,
Kurt
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« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2017, 02:50:06 PM »

Kurt, that looks nice.
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cloudburstz
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« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2017, 03:33:39 AM »

Hi
I have a thread about a Tomboy build in another part of the forum, but I will be putting a Redfin 049 diesel in it. I should receive the motor this week all going well. Just wondering about tips on fuel, or making it, its approximately 38 years since I last used a diesel in a model plane!
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