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Author Topic: Irvine diesel and after run oil  (Read 4408 times)
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mjmccarron
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« on: March 01, 2014, 10:56:31 PM »

Quite a while back I purchased an Irvine .40 diesel as I thought it sounded interesting to play with. I was not disappointed! What a wonderful performer. I mounted it on my trusty Falcon 56 Mk II after a moderate break in on a test stand. For several weeks I enjoyed uneventful flying with this combination. 45 minute flights on 4 oz of fuel! Power to spare. I could even tell how much fuel was left by how far down the fuselage the black streak extended. As with my glow engines, I would wipe down the airplane, and engine. run the fuel out of it and dose it with Marvins Marvelous Mystery Oil. This particular day was no different but I learned a lesson. An Irvine diesel will run on this after run oil! I put several drops down the carb and flipped the prop to work it in. The Engine roared to life just long enough to shred my hand with the attached APC 14 x 7 prop. I still love this engine and after 10 years of use, it still runs strong but, I am very careful about flipping after run oil into it.
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gossie
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« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2014, 02:13:07 AM »

No good a shredded hand.  I know the feeling having stuck my thumb into a Webra Rekord new years eve that I'm still dealing with.

Diesels do it seems just about run on anything.   I always "hose" my engines of any type out with WD40 or similar when done for the day, then oil them up well with just normal auto engine oil.
After the WD40 treatment I've found flicking them over they often fire............Take care.
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« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2014, 12:05:32 PM »

Is there anyone who has not caught their hand in the prop? Now I always use an electric starter. With flooding I have bust a couple of conrods, but they are cheaper to replace than fingers.
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gossie
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« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2014, 04:21:25 PM »

I've only ever caught my fingers, 4 times in fact over a long long time since the '50s in fact, when the engine is running adjusting things.
Flicking a prop. has never been a problem for me, but I do use a finger stall when flicking APC or carbon props even if I've taken off the rear edge a little.
Thumb without doubt is the very worst one I have done.........the others were more of a scrape.
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mjmccarron
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« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2014, 04:55:09 PM »

I guess I'm pretty lucky (or careful) in 38 years of modeling I have only nicked a knuckle adjusting a needle valve once and then this incident with the diesel. It didn't require stitches but i had quite a few annoying cuts for a while. I almost always use electric start but for working in after run oil I flip by hand. With the diesel, I hold the prop firmly as I pill it through slowly. I have felt it pop a few times but no problem holding it back. I have experimented and found that it will fire on nearly any oil. WD-40, motor oil, kerosene, olive oil and probably caster oil although I haven't tried it yet. It's smelly and messy but it pulls like a .90. Just watch out, theres no glow plug to arm it.
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Pit
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« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2014, 12:03:42 PM »

No good a shredded hand.  I know the feeling having stuck my thumb into a Webra Rekord new years eve that I'm still dealing with.

Diesels do it seems just about run on anything.   I always "hose" my engines of any type out with WD40 or similar when done for the day, then oil them up well with just normal auto engine oil.
After the WD40 treatment I've found flicking them over they often fire............Take care.
My <>??>< diesel  didn't just "fire" when I freed it up with WD40, it ran quite well Shocked.  Surprised/scared the "p" outta me.  I think it might run on ANY oil!
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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2014, 01:21:21 PM »

Is there anyone who has not caught their hand in the prop? Now I always use an electric starter. With flooding I have bust a couple of conrods, but they are cheaper to replace than fingers.
Now I've suffered and seen more real damage with the use of electric starters. The bent conrods is one, bent needle valves from the stater cones bouncing off the spinners are some.

Now I've seen two real bad accidents. One were the guy got hit in the eye with the prop after the starter had spun it off the shaft of a flooded engine. The second was a severed finger. The starter acted like an anvil when the prop hit the hand which was holding the starter.

I see little need for electric starters. A properly designed and tuned engine should hand start. If not there is something amiss!  Now there is a right and many a wrong ways to hand start an engine. Don't place your finger all the way through the prop disk when starting. I fear that us old timers that know how to hand start are becoming few and far between.

Be safe,
Konrad
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mjmccarron
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« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2014, 12:48:45 AM »

Pit, I found the same thing. Mine runs pretty good on WD-40. I'm tempted to add some caster oil to it and see how it performs. It's cheaper than model diesel fuel. I use to mix my own fuel from kerosene, ether, and oil but ether has gotten extremely difficult to buy in the US.
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Buster11
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« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2014, 04:37:36 PM »

In the days when I used an MVVS 2.5D diesel with home-moulded glass props for F1C models I found a 3 inch length of Mercedes heater hose worked wonders round the flicking finger; it conferred total immunity from the worst a prop could do. Highly recommended. Other heater hoses are available....
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« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2014, 05:37:30 PM »

I have a badly broken little finger on my left hand.  It was shattered right at the knuckle and actually sticks out at about 10 degrees.  A wound from high school dodge ball.  I stuck the knuckle in a prop about 10 years ago and it was going to need stitches so off to the emergency room I go ( my wife drove me as I was trying to keep blood from leaking out) The Dr came in and asked to see my wound, I showed her and she had this really shocked look on her face until I told her that the only new damage was the skin not the bone. She sowed it up and away we went.  I do admit that at first glance it really looked BAD!
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« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2014, 06:35:30 PM »

I recently changed the Venturi on my MK-17 diesel to the large one for a little extra grunt on the lads new plane. First start the thing whacks me on the top of the finger. No matter how fast I flicked the prop I just couldn't get out of its way. Was never a problem with the small Venturi. Since reverted to a chicken stick to get her going. Anyway the large Venturi makes a huge difference in power. This thing hauls an overweight 30 inch stunter around with ease. It's a little overweight due to needing some extra strength for those mishaps when teaching an 8 year old control line stunt.
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gcb
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« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2014, 02:21:05 PM »

I know this is an old thread but just want to add some comments.

Do you feel you really need to add after-run oil? The reason we use it for glow engines is that residual alcohol will absorb moisture (= rust), and those who use nitro methane will find that it will form nitric acid in the crankcase (= rust). Unless you use a corrosive additive to your diesel fuel, why do you need after-run oil?

BTW, I use it too. I'm just questioning if we really need it. Perhaps just flushing a little kerosene through the engine will suffice.

George
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mjmccarron
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« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2014, 09:46:52 PM »

Hi George,
That's a good question. The primary component of model diesel is kerosene. It also contains ether and amil nitrate ?sp. Kerosene in itself is a good corrosion inhibitor but I'm not sure about the other components or the post combustion residual. It's just a habit to flush out the engine and oil it when I'm done for the day. Perhaps someone with more knowledge on the subject would care to comment.
Thanks,
Mike
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billdennis747
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« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2014, 02:51:40 AM »

I´ve never come across a corroded diesel (except one I dunked in the sea) but after every winter layup, the fuel line is gummed up with castor, and I wish I had washed it through
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martina
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« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2014, 12:08:24 PM »

No good a shredded hand.  I know the feeling having stuck my thumb into a Webra Rekord new years eve that I'm still dealing with.

Diesels do it seems just about run on anything.   I always "hose" my engines of any type out with WD40 or similar when done for the day, then oil them up well with just normal auto engine oil.
After the WD40 treatment I've found flicking them over they often fire............Take care.

They do seem to want to run on anything - I thought my DC Dart was being a bit reluctant to start and running roughly when it did ........... only to discover I'd been feeding it with my spark ignition fuel!!
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Geoff. Potter
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« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2014, 09:37:48 PM »

If one is going to lay up a Diesel engine it is much better to clean and oil it than leave it with caster oil in it . I usually strip and wash out with Shellite ,which will dry completely leaving no residue ,if it doesn't it's not clean , then dip all parts in Power steering ,auto gearbox oil ,put back together and wipe with a clean rag,into plastic bag and back in box ,job done ! In three / four years take it out give it a quick rince in ABOVE or petrol ,dry off and ready to go again . Hasn't failed in 60 years and no cut fingers . Used to use sewing machine oil or 10 grade before the pretty red stuff, I think it worked just as well ,but CLEAN INSIDE is the secret to lay ups ,NOT JUST OIL .
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David Murrell
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« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2015, 01:53:38 AM »

Geoff, you have nailed it, except I found that a twin ball race small diesel played up after about 3-4 hours running. I had neglected the ATF (auto transmission fluid) after run oil but used the motor often (with a muffler) and stored it nose down. The problem seemed to be the piston wearing unevenly but the actual cause was the ball races were shot  Cry . New races and plenty of ATF and all is rosy, so, YES, diesels DO need after run oil, but be careful they can bite when least expected, as can ANY engine.

Cheers

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tonsberg
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« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2015, 05:22:35 PM »

BLACK streaks down the fuselage. It should be a honey coloured streak! Maybe you are running a touch overcomressed. Not good for a diesel.

Andrew
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Geoff. Potter
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« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2015, 05:06:04 PM »

Geez your game . Wasn't  going to go there Andrew , that could develop into a mine field!!!!
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« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2017, 08:20:08 PM »

Guess the safe way would be back the compression off a few turns so the chance of ignition is reduced, yes I know the general rule is don't move the setting once set. Treat it like it's ready to start like treating a gun as always loaded. I use a leather glove with some garden hose over the flipping fingers, it has suffered a hit or two that would have busted me up but I felt nothing other than my fingers being knocked out of the way. The guy a few flight stations over winced and shook his hand though.

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