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Author Topic: Tern Free, composite TLG  (Read 8072 times)
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BG
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« Reply #50 on: January 15, 2015, 02:16:51 PM »

So Dylan, would you be willing to make one or two for sale? Basically send the flat wing panels and fuselage pod.

I am pretty sure some of us would buy a set of wings from you.
B
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OZPAF
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« Reply #51 on: January 15, 2015, 05:34:48 PM »

How is it going Dylan? Are you working on a MK2.
Happy New Year by the way.
John
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ThomasLee
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« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2015, 06:46:58 PM »

Really cool Dylan and Blake!
Just got a few guys interested in doing some TLG at the club, so we will be building a couple from kits or plans. After that, I would be so tempted to mold some for fun.... right up my alley  Cheesy

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Ployd
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« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2015, 05:33:01 PM »

Hello ThomasLee

Hope you appreciate that the Dylan/Blake model is for Free Flight and not r/c (two totally different design philosophies). If r/c is your thing then there are many ARF's and kits available, mainly from Eastern Europe.

Ployd in OZ
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Randy Reynolds
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« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2015, 07:00:26 PM »

Thomas is one of the leading designers and manufacturers of R/C DLG in Hong Kong and likely is well aware of the Eastern European vendors.  If he'll make some F/F composite "TLG"'s he'll have a good market at least in the US.
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« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2015, 08:08:04 AM »

We should also add that Thomas is an expert free flight modeler, and I believe his junior P-30 record still stands in Canada. BMJR sells one of his Embryo designs.

Thomas, would be great to see you do some more FF stuff. Smiley
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dylan1024
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« Reply #56 on: January 26, 2015, 07:28:27 AM »

Hi Everyone

Blake and I are still trying to get to the field for decent test flights. we are busy on other projects at the moment.

The Tern Free never started out as a commercial venture and after much debate between the two of us we would need to charge $280 for two wing halves and a fuse.

I have requested that a PDF of the plan be uploaded to this thread as well.

Dyl
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« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2015, 07:48:14 AM »

The Tern Free never started out as a commercial venture and after much debate between the two of us we would need to charge $280 for two wing halves and a fuse.

Outside my price range to be sure, but a very reasonable price for such an aircraft nevertheless.
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BG
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« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2015, 01:09:57 PM »

Sounds reasonable Dylan. I might buy one. I need to see that the DT situation is solved though. I am watching with keen interest.
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dylan1024
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« Reply #59 on: January 27, 2015, 01:07:55 AM »

link to the plan

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=7076

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F3KBlake
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« Reply #60 on: January 27, 2015, 01:36:42 AM »

Here's a pic of the latest version. 74g textreme carbon d/box, 25g glass skin and double shear web. AUW 90g. We scaled the tail up by about 5%. The fuse is way overkill on layup which is helping us though the learning stage because literally you cant break it. I must say the first tern we built survived some pretty insane crashes. Crashes you might ask. We tried crousiform tail which didn't work out so good.

80g Auw should be a walk in the park.

DT will be sorted in the near future. Dylan is pulling out all the stops on that project. Stay tuned.
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« Reply #61 on: January 27, 2015, 01:49:53 AM »

 Cool
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Re: Tern Free, composite TLG
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ThomasLee
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« Reply #62 on: January 27, 2015, 02:04:56 AM »

That is friggen sick! Will you have one with you in Croatia for us to oogle over?

Thomas - Team HK
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« Reply #63 on: January 27, 2015, 02:09:43 AM »

BTW, from the photo it looks as though you departed from polyhedral, is that correct? What is the reasoning?
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F3KBlake
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« Reply #64 on: January 27, 2015, 03:25:26 AM »

Unfortunately Thomas im not going to Croatia, moneys a bit tight at the moment. Will definitely be at the next F3K Worlds. Would of been great tho. Undecided
Yes there is only one dihedral break on this one. We did it to increase wing accuracy, much easier to build, lighter and also to see if we get better launch height. (Stiffer wing and less drag). Its got 12degrees dihedral.

Blake
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BG
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« Reply #65 on: January 27, 2015, 09:52:48 AM »

Blake,
2 questions: 1. how is the flight testing going? Looking at the plan it looks like you have a lot of rudder. Lee Hines once told me that you have to trim that rudder down to the minimum needed to ensure a good transition. Just a thought.
2. Have you had success with DTing reliably? What DT mechanism are you using?

Thx
Bernard (Ex pat South African).
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Tmat
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« Reply #66 on: January 27, 2015, 11:30:35 AM »

Just my 2 cents,
Your dihedral in both the poly version and Vee version looks to be too small. All of the successful FF TLG's I've seen have at least 18 deg Equivalent Dihedral Angle (EDA) and many are in the 19 to 20 deg EDA range. It's needed to transition correctly.

Beautiful work btw.
You will eventually come around to a pop-up boom or wing for DT.

Tmat
-everyone does eventually..... ;-)

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Tmat
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« Reply #67 on: January 27, 2015, 11:33:19 AM »

Btw,
I think the StanfoilBEmod2 is perhaps the best all around choice for a FF TLG airfoil. Brian Eggleston did develop several thicker airfoils with undercamber and semi symmetrical under surfaces and they were only a marginal or no improvement over the flat bottom Stanfoil.

Tmat


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Ployd
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« Reply #68 on: January 28, 2015, 11:00:02 PM »

Mr T, Oh contras.

While I cannot speak for Dylon's Vee dihedral version, the polyhedral version works just fine (watch the videos) and it was what I recommended back in Aug 2006 with the Discus Dancer (see attached) and have used ever since on subsequent versions.

I think what is becoming apparent is that there is more than one way to skin a cat and while acknowledging that the US designs work and are successful, the potential available projected wing area is constrained by the excessive dihedral needed for transition and dictated by the 3 break wing panel layout. Now that Dylon, Blake and Thomas Lee (all with F3K background) have discovered what we are up to expect some innovative ideas and a confirmation of the direction the new FF TLG's will head in.

Ployd in OZ
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« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 11:35:44 PM by Ployd » Logged

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Tmat
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« Reply #69 on: January 29, 2015, 03:19:35 PM »

Ployd,
I have not seen you launch. But I've seen Stan and the other top American TLG experts throw their birds. They need the dihedral they have to get a consistent transition. I think you need to witness those guys throwing to really get the idea. No offense, but your launch is probably half the height of Stan's. These guys can do nearly 2 minutes in dead air. If they thought that they could get away with less dihedral they would.

The only way I see around this would be to add a timer with auto surfaces that allowed a bunt transition. Then you could remove dihedral.
From my experience the old adage that dihedral is cheap always comes to mind. ;-)

Tmat
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Rewinged
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« Reply #70 on: January 29, 2015, 04:21:44 PM »

In most cases the U.S. flyers are not handicapped by dihedral limiting the projected span or area.  Most flyers are using models with span <=36 inches flat, so well below the 1 meter projected span.
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Ployd
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« Reply #71 on: January 29, 2015, 05:49:51 PM »

Matt,

I was referring to the videos posted by Dylon on page 2 of this topic ( I do not have any videos of my models being launched or in flight unfortunately) and the point being made in answer to your posting was that excessive dihedral, cheap though it maybe, was not the only way to go and that so-called "shallow poly dihedral" models will transition just as well when fully trimmed.
 
True, I may not get as high (altitude) as my American cousins but there is no substitute for square inches (or decimetres).

Ployd in OZ
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danberry
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« Reply #72 on: January 29, 2015, 07:39:14 PM »

There is absolutely NO substitute for altitude.
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« Reply #73 on: January 29, 2015, 11:25:30 PM »

Obviously, both of the "no substitute" statements are correct at different times.  Sometimes the air is too weak down low but much better up a bit, and other times the air is just weak, and a great glide is needed.  Unfortunately, I don't get as high as many and my gliders don't glide as well as many.  But sometimes the air is good enough for me and my planes.
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BG
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« Reply #74 on: January 30, 2015, 09:24:13 AM »

Ployd, I guess the $0.65 question is; what are your dead air times like? This gives a direct measure of the relative effect of those extra square cm. There can't be that much of a difference in projected area with an increase in dihedral anyway.

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