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Author Topic: Tern Free, composite TLG  (Read 7837 times)
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Tmat
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« Reply #75 on: January 30, 2015, 09:31:44 AM »

If two identical models have a 1 meter projected span, but different dihedral angles then the projected square inches are the same n'est pas?


Tmat
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F1B guy...
But don't hold that against me!
dosco
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« Reply #76 on: January 30, 2015, 12:47:01 PM »

If two identical models have a 1 meter projected span, but different dihedral angles then the projected square inches are the same n'est pas?


Tmat

Is wing loading computed with actual square inches or projected square inches?

-Dave
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Tmat
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« Reply #77 on: January 30, 2015, 01:13:23 PM »

Projected IMO.
There is a case to be made that additional dihedral reduces the wing efficiency (extra drag from the dihedral breaks at higher angles, spanwise flow etc.). However, I'll say it again - dihedral is cheap.
But it's not an area issue.

Tmat
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dosco
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« Reply #78 on: January 30, 2015, 02:15:15 PM »

Projected IMO.

So then wing loading changes with bank angle(?).

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Tmat
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« Reply #79 on: January 30, 2015, 03:42:19 PM »

I suppose it does. Although it's not really of interest to me for Free Fight duration models.

Tmat
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Tapio Linkosalo
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« Reply #80 on: January 30, 2015, 03:43:28 PM »

It sure does. The tighter you trim a FF model to turn, the faster will be the sinking rate. And you do not need to go to extreme bank, but for - say - F1B, there is a difference when you open up the turn from 30sec per one turn in glide to 60sec per turn.
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dosco
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« Reply #81 on: January 30, 2015, 04:53:49 PM »

It sure does. The tighter you trim a FF model to turn, the faster will be the sinking rate. And you do not need to go to extreme bank, but for - say - F1B, there is a difference when you open up the turn from 30sec per one turn in glide to 60sec per turn.

I agree but in my experience that was due to the relationship of the lift vector to the frame of reference (or the "direction of gravity" so to speak).

We always treated wing loading as an invariant ratio of weight to wing area.

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OZPAF
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« Reply #82 on: January 30, 2015, 05:27:57 PM »

Thats the more correct way of looking at it Dosco. Wing loading should be calaculated on actual area and then allowance made for the angle of bank or dihedral and the corressponding loss of vertical lift, if necessary.

John
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dylan1024
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« Reply #83 on: February 16, 2015, 03:18:36 AM »

Some pics of the DT

Using nichrome to burn rubber band

 http://youtu.be/Q2xdANYN2_A
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Tapio Linkosalo
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« Reply #84 on: February 16, 2015, 03:48:19 AM »

What size of battery are you using? I tried to run mine on 20mAh, works OK in room temperature, but failed in freezer (winter simulation). Had to revert to 50mah battery (1g more weight)...

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dylan1024
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« Reply #85 on: February 16, 2015, 05:09:36 AM »

Tapio

I am using a 30mah 25c...... must admit that i didnt think of low temp testing. We dont get tooo cold here in winter
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jim_buxton
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Fly more gliders!



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« Reply #86 on: May 04, 2015, 03:41:43 PM »

Very interesting thread!  I had pondered development of a DT system much like this, and we were getting help from one of the RC altimeter manufacturers.  Ultimately the project fizzled out as I decided to just go with an RDT unit.  This is a great looking option though.  Will the timer or parts (pod and wing panels) be commercially available? 
~Jim
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~Jim Buxton
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« Reply #87 on: May 07, 2015, 05:01:19 AM »

Hi Jim

We are not sure if we will ever go into full production. we will look at making a few models to sell. we will keep you all up to date.



some progress for you all...

After some good advice from -John- here on the forum, we changed to a four panel wing with way more dihedral than we previously had. The effect of this was a far less critical model in terms of launch but it was still hit and miss with transitions. We cut the fin area down to the point that transitions were consistent and far less critical on wind direction.

We are using a pop stab DT but have yet to evaluate its performance in a big thermal. the stab has 9 degrees of left tilt.(left tip down).

here are some videos. conditions were not the best.

Launch and short DT: https://youtu.be/IgXvW_CQmIA

Blake launching with small fin and short DT: https://youtu.be/PVkkVVL1Vgw

Dyl ok launch big fin: https://youtu.be/LZPOz_w9ifY

Small fin short dt: https://youtu.be/qzTKJTd43oc

Dyl launch, small fin. lots of sink! : https://youtu.be/DhXMOfOszAg



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OZPAF
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« Reply #88 on: May 07, 2015, 09:03:47 PM »

I thought your DT stab was working well - however strong thermals will prove it. I thought the transitions with the small fin looked good and consistent and not overly sensitive to the climb angle.
good luck and thanks for the update.
John
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dylan1024
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« Reply #89 on: May 08, 2015, 01:36:28 AM »

updated plan

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=7320
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F3KBlake
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« Reply #90 on: May 29, 2015, 08:33:46 AM »

So Dylan and I went flying yesterday with the TernFree and had an absolutely ball. We caught numerous thermals and the pop stab DT worked well. I wouldnt say it was the fastest way to get out of lift but it was effective. It seems the launch and transition is awesome regardless of whether Dyl or I launch. We have very different launch styles. We now playing with trim to get the thermal flying optimised. Its pretty darn good but i think we can get it better. I cant express enough how good it feels to see this bird fly. RC has never made me feel this good about flight.
Big thanks to all for your input and opinions it has helped us achieve nirvana.

Regards
Blake
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F3KBlake
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« Reply #91 on: May 29, 2015, 08:37:27 AM »

Dylan is quite calm when hunting thermals. Lol
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OZPAF
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« Reply #92 on: May 29, 2015, 07:17:36 PM »

Thanks for the update.
John
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F3KBlake
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« Reply #93 on: June 01, 2015, 07:19:34 AM »

Im curious,  how tough are wooded tlg's? How do they hold up to lawn darts and cartwheels? I can vouch for the tern as its gone through tough times and is still intact and pretty damn  healthy considering. I wish i had all its bad moment on video to back me up but i only have these. What you think?

Blake
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F3KBlake
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« Reply #94 on: June 01, 2015, 07:24:08 AM »

Tern free strength test: https://youtu.be/_4vHtC-pdpk
Tern free strength test: https://youtu.be/_4vHtC-pdpk
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sweepettelee
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Simplicate & add more lightness. Keep sanding!



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« Reply #95 on: June 01, 2015, 12:45:09 PM »

You asked:  "how tough are wooded tlg's?"
Surprisingly tough, I would say.  Impacting an immovable structure is prone to damage most things, even dead tree wood flying objects.
Speaking for myself, my TLGs are several years old, tho I haven't had many recent chances to hurl them seriously.  I think it safe to say,
most current TLGs that follow the construction norm of balsa flying surfaces with bodies incorporating popup boom DT system are some
of the toughest, longest lasting FFs in most competitors fleets.

That said, I do find your parallel postings on the Composites Lounge Forum, of extreme interest...
The tough, but rubbery Leading Edge Molding Treatment you mentioned recently is a very important technique, which I wager will become
more widespread.

Thanks for posting your fine TLG efforts.
Lee R Hines
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Leeper
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« Reply #96 on: June 05, 2015, 02:41:22 AM »

Thanks Lee i appreciate your comments. I am always willing to share knowledge and admire people with the same philosophy.

Blake


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Geneulm
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« Reply #97 on: June 05, 2015, 01:15:37 PM »

Ok.  I've crawled out from under my rock to say: I WANT ONE!

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F3KBlake
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« Reply #98 on: June 06, 2015, 05:33:11 AM »

Dylan and I would really like to make them avalible to everyone. We discuss this subject at length. This is the reason why we are trying to get the community on board to make the wing of our dreams. Im sure Armsoar would be an easy way to distribute? ::)hmm

Blake
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boca55
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« Reply #99 on: June 06, 2015, 08:36:35 AM »

Tern free strength test: https://youtu.be/_4vHtC-pdpk
Tern free strength test: https://youtu.be/_4vHtC-pdpk

Too big difference of angles
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