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Author Topic: Nieuport 11 Bebe - Build  (Read 28759 times)
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Pat D
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« Reply #400 on: March 02, 2017, 02:10:10 PM »

Thanks Rich

I will try that on my Se5a then, loving the build

Pat
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billdennis747
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« Reply #401 on: March 02, 2017, 02:32:06 PM »

Another option is Ronseal Antique Pine varnish (not stain) although it works better on spruce. Somewhere on here, ZK-AUD described painting balsa struts
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #402 on: March 03, 2017, 05:05:02 PM »

I have added to the main cowling form to bash out the aluminium cheeks. I attached the aluminium using the original mild steel retainer and started tapping the aluminium around the form. Not as much stretching to do as the main cowling, so it was relatively easy. I didn't bother with heat. I still need to rub them down a bit more, and then trim them. Also on the straight edge, I will form a fold for the strip that sits flat against the fuselage sides.

On smaller models, these are usually made solid from soft balsa block. It is pleasing to be modelling the aperture in the lower part of the cheek and I look forward to being able to see daylight when I look through the engine bay...
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OZPAF
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« Reply #403 on: March 03, 2017, 05:29:53 PM »

You're a man of many skills Rich. Very nice.

John
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #404 on: March 04, 2017, 03:55:12 PM »

Thank you John. I think it is fairer to say I'm a trier. (the wife thinks I'm very trying).

And I'm about to try another new thing - mylar. But, I'm getting mixed ideas about what to use with regards to sticking this mylar stuff - Velcro glue, UHU gluestick, purple gluestick? Having just written this I remembered Ivan's spitfire article in AM - he uses PVA. As I have this already (and I'm a great fan of PVA), I think I have just made my decision...tail plane first...
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daveh
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« Reply #405 on: March 04, 2017, 04:02:18 PM »

Rich,

I concur with the PVA; I haven't used Mylar on many models but on those I have done, PVA has worked well. One word of caution - I found it best to thin the PVA just a little bit so that I could get an even coating on the frame and avoid any thicker bits as they can show up after the Mylar is applied.

Dave
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billdennis747
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« Reply #406 on: March 04, 2017, 04:16:21 PM »

Rich, Ivan uses a PVA from Jewson which has good grip.
Good luck with it. I have seen extraordinary results (Ivan, Ralph Sparrow) and ghastly ones (guess who)
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #407 on: March 04, 2017, 04:42:21 PM »

I'm sure it will be great. Ralph's results with Mylar, even on small models, are beautiful. I do suspect he uses some kind of sorcery though, and though he keeps trying to make everyone else use it too personally I just need one or two normal  people (rather than just him and Ivan- another wizard) to recommend it before I take the plunge.
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #408 on: March 04, 2017, 05:25:22 PM »

Thanks Dave, and Bill - it sounds like Ivan is using proper builder's PVA - guess what I use (being en ex-builder/ carpenter?
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RalphS
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« Reply #409 on: March 05, 2017, 10:31:27 AM »

Just seen the views re mylar covering.  If you haven't used it before I would suggest that you first practice on some old airframe bits with the tissue removed.  Wings are the most difficult.  Undercambered undersides need a couple of coats of contact adhesive to ensure that the mylar sticks well when tightening.  I have used Balsaloc once (seemed to be ultra-expensive pva) but went back to contact glue thinned with toluene.  Hope it turns out well.  Looks lovely.
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #410 on: March 05, 2017, 03:20:58 PM »

Mmm, the wings are undercamber-tastic, and I need to have a reliable method here so a contact adhesive may be wise for the wings. Is toluene easy to get ones hands on?

I am going to start with the stabiliser and use pva, as this is flat and it won't have too much work to do. Having got everything out ready, I've decided to add a bit of wood around the control horns and to where the linkages pass through the tailplane so the mylar has something to stick to. Easier said than done because I want the cables and slot to line up properly, which means temporarily assembling the tailplane and marking where the cables will go into the fuselage. There's quite a lot of faffing about going on here.
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RalphS
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« Reply #411 on: March 05, 2017, 03:24:50 PM »

Is toluene easy to get ones hands on?

Check out fleabay.

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Rich Moore
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« Reply #412 on: March 05, 2017, 03:36:45 PM »

Thanks Ralph - very lazy of me. Anyway, toluene ordered.
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« Reply #413 on: March 06, 2017, 05:44:10 AM »

I'm sure you know this, but be careful with it and ventilate your working area very well, it's not the nicest stuff.
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #414 on: March 06, 2017, 07:47:46 AM »

Thanks WIP - that's why I'm gonna use pva where possible. I get myself in enough trouble working in the house as it is... I can move back in the garage when it is warmer/ my projects get smaller!
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #415 on: March 06, 2017, 05:10:10 PM »

Fiddly stuff this mylar! I got the tailplane, less elevators, covered on both sides. Took me ages - the biggest problem for me seemed to be trimming the stuff. I'm using a brand new razor blade but it's hard to see and hard to get hold of to allow tension whilst trimming, and it's electrically charged, so it clings to my hands. The family iron, set to one click past one dot, seemed to attach the mylar to the structure OK. Hopefully I'll get better with practice. Anyway, I think it has come out OK, but I haven't shrunk it yet. I have done as Ivan suggests in his recent AM article and pricked the bays to enable it to breath, and chucked it in a cupboard to ferment for a couple of days before I attempt to apply shrinking heat.
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OZPAF
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« Reply #416 on: March 08, 2017, 06:07:07 PM »

Rich perhaps handling the mylar would be easier if you have the oversized sheet in a frame or even just dowels along the 2 long edges. I have read of the indoor fellows using a similar system when using their ultra light films.

You could then support the dowels and then just place the stab on the mylar?

Could you crumple the mylar beforehand to eliminate the static charge?

Well just a couple of thought that perhaps Ivan or someone else could clarify.

John
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #417 on: March 08, 2017, 07:23:30 PM »

Hi John. These things might help, thanks for the suggestions. No doubt I'll try these things as I process subsequent parts. Funnily enough, I have just finished another session and things are improving for me. The tail-plane, elevators and rudder have all been covered now and it went on more easily and quickly. Tonight, I whacked the iron up to the full 3 dots and then some, which seems to cause shrinkage aplenty without any signs of melting or smoke.

As can be seen by the photos, I failed to make a very smooth job of attaching the mylar, but it shrank to a nice smooth finish with just a few tiny little wrinkles which don't want to come out. I don't think I need perfection, as I will be covering it all again in tissue. Despite a stiff, laminated outline, the leading edge of the tailplane has pulled in - something I'll have to rectify, but it'll be OK. Ivan's article is for a painted mylar finish, so I am thinking that sticking it to all points of contact with the air-frame is a bit over the top (although it may aid repairs) if I'm going over the whole lot with tissue. With this in mind I'll try glue-ing it to the outlines only from now on. The parts tried being twisted and warped, but I reheated them until they decided to be flat, then I clamped them in between some planks of walnut that'll keep 'em flat until I need them again.

The advance in technique is probably down to me just getting on with it and stopping the faffing about, which I'm prone to do when I don't know what I'm doing.
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Yak 52
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« Reply #418 on: March 09, 2017, 03:38:33 AM »

Looks really good Rich. What glue did you use in the end? I remember PeeTee recommending the cheapest contact adhesive as found in pound shops because it still had all the nasty chemicals you need  Shocked

And what thickness mylar did you go for?

Jon
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RalphS
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« Reply #419 on: March 09, 2017, 05:16:22 AM »

Looking good. To overcome the static problem, particularly on larger items, I lay the mylar pieces on some newspaper.  If it still wants to self-crumple hold it by the outside edges and give it a few shakes. 
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #420 on: March 09, 2017, 05:51:52 AM »

Hello Jon and Ralph. I think it's 5 microns. I got it from Mike's Freeflight Supplies. Biggest problem with static is it clinging to my fingers - perhaps I need to earth myself. Newspaper sounds like a simple solution to try. I used thick pva for these tail parts and it has stuck well. However, my consignment of contact glue and toluene has now arrived so I'll try doing it with the nasty stuff soon.
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RalphS
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« Reply #421 on: March 09, 2017, 11:51:27 AM »

However, my consignment of contact glue and toluene has now arrived so I'll try doing it with the nasty stuff soon.

The contact cement/toluene can be thinned to the same consistency as water.  I guess that it is lighter than PVA. Mylar adhered with contact cement can be easily removed using toluene - not so sure about PVA.  If the mylar "lifts" somewhere it can be re-attached using a hot iron to reactivate the cement.  It isn't all that nasty - just open the window - but better not use it in the house.  I have been using it for 25-30 years and have survived.  I haven't seen Ivan's article so don't know if he mentions it, but when covering wings use the mylar lengthwise from the roll spanwise on the wing.  You get less droop between the ribs that way. 
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Yak 52
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« Reply #422 on: March 09, 2017, 04:15:21 PM »

Just dug out an old PM from Peter and he thins contact adhesive with cellulose thinners (which I have here already.) Any thoughts on that Ralph? Or is Toluene different/better? (Sorry for the hijack Rich Smiley)
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RalphS
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« Reply #423 on: March 10, 2017, 04:38:01 AM »

Just dug out an old PM from Peter and he thins contact adhesive with cellulose thinners (which I have here already.) Any thoughts on that Ralph? Or is Toluene different/better? (Sorry for the hijack Rich Smiley)

I have tried it but prefer toluene.  I seem to remember that toluene "flashes" off more quickly. 
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Yak 52
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« Reply #424 on: March 10, 2017, 05:03:19 AM »

Ok thanks  Smiley I'll give it a go...

Jon
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