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Author Topic: Keil Kraft Bandit for electric R/C  (Read 1079 times)
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Sundancer
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« on: June 04, 2015, 09:09:37 AM »

Here is my just completed Keil Kraft Bandit.  I have a lot of history with this 44 inch Bill Dean design, it was my first power model built in 1954 at the age of 13, free-flight of course and powered by my first engine, a 1 cc E.D.Bee diesel.  Over the next few years I built five more, and they were all great performers.  Almost 60 years and about 500 models later I decided it was time to build another one with the modern advantages of electric power and 2.4 gig radio.  It was also an especially appropriate time to repeat the model as my brother-in-law, who bought me that first E.D. Bee and was my modelling companion (and also built Bandits) throughout my teens and twenties passed away in late March this year at the age of 89, so to be flying a replica of the model we enjoyed so much seemed like a good way to remember him.  Which is why it carries the name "Spirit of '54" on the nose.

The new Bandit is powered by a 90 watt outrunner with 2S lipo and 12 amp ESC.  Radio is an Orange 6 2.4 gig Rx with two 7 gram micro servos, using a Spektrum DX6 Tx.  It is covered with 38 micron document laminating film and then with Esaki Liteflite tissue on top using nitrate dope (four coats).  All the colour trim, lettering, lining and Bandit graphic are executed in tissue, only the immediate nose cowling is spray painted.  The wheels are an authentic pair of streamlined plastic KK 2 inch as supplied with the original Bandit kits in the 1950's - yes I had kept them all that time!  All up weight, including a necessary 25 grams/1 ounce of nose ballast is 16.5 ounces.  After adding a little washout to the wing tips to counter a slight tendency to tip stall it flies beautifully and seeing it in the air is a great reminder of happy times in the past with the design
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Keil Kraft Bandit for electric R/C
Keil Kraft Bandit for electric R/C
Keil Kraft Bandit for electric R/C
Keil Kraft Bandit for electric R/C
Keil Kraft Bandit for electric R/C
Keil Kraft Bandit for electric R/C
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DavidJP
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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2015, 03:45:34 PM »

Very nice....... these old timers are unbeatable!  Is the motor more than adequate though - I would have thought something a little "smaller" would have been enough?
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Sundancer
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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2015, 04:00:11 PM »

Well David, although the motor is rated at 90 watts, on a 2S lipo and fitted with the GWS 8 x 4.3 prop in the photos it is only actually running at 50 watts which at full throttle gives a positive but gentle climb; however, it now has an APC 9 x 4.7 slow fly prop which equates to 70 watts so it cruises nicely on just over half throttle, launches and climbs positively on 3/4 and on full throttle does a hands off left hand 45 degree spiral just like my later F/F ones which were equipped with Frog 150s, so it is just right.  In any case, fitting a smaller and lighter motor would simply mean carrying more nose ballast to get the CG right, a common problem with short nosed vintage power models converted to electric where you have limited options in getting the lipo further forward.  And the final clincher - I already had the motor in the drawer looking for a home!
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Konrad
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« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2015, 01:01:54 PM »

Wow, always love the crisp graphics on your models!
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Cut it twice and it's still too short!
Sundancer
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« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2015, 04:24:32 PM »

Thanks Konrad, glad you like it.  I really enjoy doing tissue and pen/ink graphics, here's one from an earlier model, my Sundancer 74 electric soarer.
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Re: Keil Kraft Bandit for electric R/C
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cloudburstz
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« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2016, 07:47:13 AM »

Wow, thats a beautiful looking aircraft .
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Sundancer
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« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2016, 08:17:00 AM »

Glad you like it, I was out flying it this weekend and it performed perfectly as always.
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DavidJP
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« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2016, 03:26:43 PM »

Meant to say thanks for the further info. on the motor.  My Madcap behaves similarly on like wattage so yes it is about right it was just the Bandit  looked less bulky than the Madcap so wondered if it was more lively.  Surplus of power does no harm anyway.

Thanks again.
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OZPAF
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« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2016, 03:10:42 AM »

Very late to see this. Another beautiful rendition of a very nice model. I've always admired your tissue on mylar finishes. Does it actually need 4 coats of nitrate on the tissue over mylar?

Happy flying - Bill dean designed beautiful looking models.

John

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Sundancer
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« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2016, 04:02:42 AM »

Thanks OZPAF; well, first of all the Bandit is covered in 38 micron doculam under the tissue, heavier but much easier to use than 10 micron mylar, and of course the resulting finish is tougher.  As to how much dope is required, I use well thinned dope and continue doping until the finish I want - sort of satin rather than glossy - is achieved.  This depends on the tissue used to some extent - Esaki Liteflite and similar "Jap" tissue will require less than Modelspan/Silkspan.  In the case of the Bandit it looked right after four coats so that was where I stopped. If you look at the post for my next model, the Widgeon, (see http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=20096.0 )you will see that it is covered in lightweight Modelspan over the doculam, and this one required an extra coat to get the finish required.  Later today I will post pictures of the model I have just finished, a 1.5x Stahl Interstate Cadet.  This uses heavyweight Modelspan on the wings over the doculam to give a quite opaque white finish and, after four coats of dope produces a finish that is bullet and possibly bomb proof!!
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billdennis747
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« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2016, 07:44:39 AM »

Sundancer, I am motivated to build one of these - could you post a picture of the installation, especially the motor? And do you use down/sidethrust on such a model?
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Sundancer
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« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2016, 08:51:36 AM »

No problem, here sre some photos of the installation and nose build.  You can see the full build log with lots more photos at http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2361773  Re downthrust/sidethrust.  I don't have any in the model, a couple of degrees of right thrust wouldn't hurt, but I trim my vintage models for a free-flight type climb at full power and use throttle to adjust the climb rate for normal flight.

I hope you do build a Bandit, you will enjoy it.  It is an interesting build and a great design.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Keil Kraft Bandit for electric R/C
Re: Keil Kraft Bandit for electric R/C
Re: Keil Kraft Bandit for electric R/C
Re: Keil Kraft Bandit for electric R/C
Re: Keil Kraft Bandit for electric R/C
Re: Keil Kraft Bandit for electric R/C
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DavidJP
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« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2016, 03:31:05 PM »

That looks nice - plenty of room!

I found on the Madcap that a little right thrust was helpful but not essential. On the Mam'selle (which is 140% scale) non was needed at all. Both will fly as per FF happily too. 

Will you colour yours yellow Bill? Wink
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