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Author Topic: Early Caudron biplane for indoor rubber  (Read 14163 times)
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Mefot
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« Reply #200 on: February 11, 2017, 07:06:49 PM »

Pleased to see you've abandoned the motor stick and bench tested a motor at last. The model will be much better for it I'm sure  Grin
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #201 on: February 15, 2017, 05:32:49 PM »

A bit more done on the nacelle. Just the cowling to do now really.
The peg will come up though the little turtle deck, OR I could make the turtle deck plug over the peg (to hide it) and just remove it for winding. Is it worth it I wonder, or will it just be another bit to fall off?

I made a crude paper pilot to the right scale (1/16) as it seemed to help to get the gaps right when trial fitting the nacelle on its strurts. Eg. How much headroom he needs etc.
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FFmodeller
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« Reply #202 on: February 15, 2017, 06:54:58 PM »

Will this little boat be pea green Pete?  Smiley ...I love these 'boat-like' nacelles.
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #203 on: February 16, 2017, 10:35:27 AM »

Will this little boat be pea green Pete?  Smiley ...I love these 'boat-like' nacelles.

'Ark at that!  Grin

Looks great Pete.
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daveh
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« Reply #204 on: February 16, 2017, 03:54:45 PM »

Will this little boat be pea green Pete?  Smiley ...I love these 'boat-like' nacelles.

Last time I saw Pete he was a sort of pinkish colour.
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #205 on: February 17, 2017, 03:52:21 AM »

Yes, its not good to inhale too much balsa...
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FFmodeller
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« Reply #206 on: February 17, 2017, 05:39:33 AM »

Ha ha .... caught by the Comma Police!
( wasn't that a single by Radiohead?  Roll Eyes )
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #207 on: February 17, 2017, 04:55:01 PM »

It's a fair cop, guv!  Embarrassed
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FFmodeller
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« Reply #208 on: February 17, 2017, 06:56:22 PM »

Hope I have not been 'misconstrued' ... my comment was aimed at:

Quote
Last time I saw Pete he was a sort of pinkish colour.

If I haven't, please ignore my blathering!  Smiley

Your comment made me laugh though Dave .... when one of our neighbours was a toddler, we used to call him P*££ Pot Pete.
Pea Green Pete just reminded me of this ...

Sorry for messing up your thread Pete .... I do like the boat-like structure of the nacelle though  Smiley


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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #209 on: February 18, 2017, 12:26:07 PM »

No problem; when I was a student, one of my housemates occasionally referred to me as "Pork Pie Pete" (I was quite partial to pork pies) so Pea Green Pete is an improvement.
I like boat like boat-like aircraft too. The Antoinette was essentially a skiff with wings.
On the Caudron colour though, I am going to have to make a desicion soon. Boatlike or not, it won't be pea green but the evidence that Mefot turned up indicating a "Caudron blue" made me look at the photos with new eyes. I really want to just stick with a traditional cream or beige though, mainly I admit because for me that is part of the charm of these early birds.
This picture, and a few of the others look quite light to me so I'll probably steer away from Caudron blue or grey unless I get any conclusive info that Caudron Fs were not ever the usual doped linen colour.
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Mefot
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« Reply #210 on: February 19, 2017, 09:35:34 AM »

Frustratingly, I visited France in the mid seventies,and although I never met Chanteloup, I could have tracked him down and asked him what colour his aircraft was !!! I can definitely say the one in your image wasn't pea green though.
Having read through many of the publication's of the period it seems that,in most cases, colour was one of the few things that weren't reported on.
I would say,in my opinion,it is impossible to deduce colours from a B&W image. Maybe in the age of the super computer this will change.
I have made a note to ask the Caudron museum about colour information when I write to them.
I am curious to know what colour documentation you will be using for this model.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #211 on: February 19, 2017, 11:28:49 AM »

I am curious to know what colour documentation you will be using for this model.

It's going to be a bit thin I think! All I really have are the existing museum Caudron G3 examples, plus various colour profiles, paintings  etc. of same, the Caudron colour references you found in Flight (which don't refer to Chanteloup's aircraft either, or even to Type Fs, but are at least pre-war sources) and, I suppose, a few contemporary artists' depictions of early Caudrons such as this cigarette card.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #212 on: February 20, 2017, 02:51:51 PM »

Cowling and dummy engine sort of done. Cowling needs a bit more shaping. I decided that the hole for the rubber would need to be larger than the centre of the dummy rotary, hence the odd nose block and rather bodged appearance of the whole affair. The spare nose block is in case I get around to making a scale prop.

(If you have been looking at pictures of Rich's beautiful rotary engine for his Nieuport, you probably better skip these pics altogether!)

Tomorrow I will take a few bare bones mock up pics with the nacelle in place, then it's on with the covering. Could be stressful!
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Mark Braunlich
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« Reply #213 on: February 20, 2017, 07:53:05 PM »

Don't know if this is one of the rare color photos of WW1 or a colorized black and white photo. 
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Mark
Jack Plane
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« Reply #214 on: February 21, 2017, 02:37:52 AM »

Its a close call.  I didn't think there was any colour film before the 1930s and so assume it is a colourised B&W print, but if so the achievement is extremely good indeed.  See the funny green rectangle rising out of the grass on the left, with a ghostly figure in front of it.  Perhaps this is where the colouring-in guy got a bit lost and so gives us a clue?

Whichever way, I think the pale blue-grey (powder-blue?) is strongly indicative of the fabric colour they could well have used.  Always liking to be different, the French...

 Grin
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billdennis747
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« Reply #215 on: February 21, 2017, 02:59:25 AM »

There are indeed many genuine colour photos from WW1 and before. I have no idea how you tell the difference but the figure on the left was probably walking during the exposure and I would have thought a colour artist would have 'filled him in'.
I have an interesting photo from the 1800s of a busy market in Nottingham. Because of the exposure time, everything moving (customers, minute hand on the clock) has gone while stall holders and standing horses remain.
Nice photo.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #216 on: February 21, 2017, 03:55:55 AM »

Thank you, chaps- especially Mark. I had come across that photo but must admit I assumed it was hand tinted and rather disregarded it. Even if it was hand tinted though, there was probably good reason for it to have been tinted grey blue. I think with this picture and the stuff Mefot found in Flight it is clear that at least some Caudrons were bluey grey. But all?

There is also this, from Sagittarius Rising:

"We trooped out to inspect the machines. I do not know what comment they expected; but faced with them, standing in a row outside the hangar, we burst into laughter. They were pre-war Caudrons, with three-cylinder Anzani engines - 'real antiques, made by them ancient Greeks'. The fabric, rotten and yellow with age, hung in festoons on the planes, the bracing wires and turn-buckles red with rust, the tyres had gone long ago, and had been replaced by pieces of stout rope. wired on to the rims."

Funnily enough, I've only recently re-read that book, but missed the colour reference. Instead, I found the quote on the Aerodrome website here, where there is a useful discussion about the Caudron colours:

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64282
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billdennis747
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« Reply #217 on: February 21, 2017, 04:12:10 AM »

Pete, have you picked a subject yet? It seems to me that you can find evidence for clear doped (yellowish) or blue, so you can please yourself - whichever you fancy the most. And for competition, you will be able to pick evidence for either (and in terms of points it doesn't matter anyway.)
Personally I would do the colour photo because very pale blue would look nice; certainly better than tissue soaked in PG Tips.
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FFmodeller
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« Reply #218 on: February 21, 2017, 05:44:48 AM »

I also like the Pale Blue     Pete.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #219 on: February 21, 2017, 06:03:02 AM »

Thanks, Bill and Russ.
More on early Caudron colour in the G3 Windsock datafile (first pic).

I'm inclined to go with Chanteloup's aircraft, because about half of the photos I have are captioned as his. They may well not be all the same aircraft of course (he was test pilot for Caudron, so probably took his pick as it pleased him) but so long as they appear to match each other then who's to say they're not the same machine?
This picture (second pic) is probably going to be my main "example modelled" photo because it is quite clear and shows the whole aircraft well, albeit before he added the 'CHANTELOUP' legend to the top plane. Also, if I choose a beige finish it looks feasible on this shot.
Rest assured, the teabag method was not going to be an option. If I go down the tan route then I'll spray on Xtracolor 'RFC doped linen'. I liked it on my Blackburn and I think Dave used it on his new Tabloid (need I say more?!)

Mind not quite made up though. Another possibility is Poulet's aircraft. These three photos on the same page of my 'Les Avions Caudron' book (third pic) are all of Monsieur Poulet in a Caudron F so would be quite a nice collection for evidence, and there are one or two more as well. (They're better quality than they look on my poor iPad shot.) If I do this one, then the dusty blue colour makes more sense as the light coloured writing on the wing ('POULET') would show up better than on a beige finish. I don't particularly want to add top wing writing though- I know it will get me a few points, but it is another hassle which could go wrong, especially on such a bumpy wing.

Last pic is of the Caudron G4 in the NASM, reportedly in original finish.
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Mefot
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« Reply #220 on: February 21, 2017, 08:02:08 AM »

I think the blue covering was quite common and not mentioned in the press because of that commonality. I have a reference somewhere, to two of the monoplanes of the same period, " disappearing against the blue sky ", because of the colour of their covering. My understanding is this was clear doped blue linen as opposed to blue dope.
Found this  GIII  which is obviously of no use whatever, but interesting nevertheless !!!
With regard to markings. It might be worth considering cutting the lettering from painted decal sheet. Probably less chance of errors that way  Smiley
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Rich Moore
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« Reply #221 on: February 21, 2017, 08:10:44 AM »

Oo, I like the pale dusty blue. That one is a bit too much blue.
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Mark Braunlich
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« Reply #222 on: February 21, 2017, 11:39:43 AM »

There's a lot more color photography from WW1 than one normally supposes.  Lots of it on the internet now although not much off it shows airplanes of course.  Here are two supposedly authentic color photos of airplanes.  The process was French but I've forgotten the name.

https://worldwaronecolorphotos.com/
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Mark
Mefot
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« Reply #223 on: February 21, 2017, 11:57:49 AM »

Don't know if this is one of the rare color photos of WW1 or a colorized black and white photo. 

Pretty sure this is what's known as an autochrome image. This process used a filter made of variously coloured pellets of potato starch to produce a negative from which the final image was made.
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daveh
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« Reply #224 on: February 21, 2017, 02:47:53 PM »

I also like the Pale Blue     Pete.

There you go again - he's pink I tell you. Unless he's stopped breathing I suppose, when he could be pale blue...

Dave
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