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Author Topic: E-36 "Puzzle"  (Read 6966 times)
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che
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« Reply #125 on: March 21, 2017, 09:00:45 AM »

(Apologies in advance to Tapio ...............)

Alan,

Thanks for your time in considering this question. I suggested a multiple pulse avoidance delay (MPAD) a few responses back so we seem to be gelling on what MAY work (legality ignored, after all this is for trimming and can be disabled).

I do see circumstances where those of use without the skill, experience and general craftiness of people such as Prof. Thompson would need to and can successfully stop an engine and then DT (via separate button pushing) without breaking the wings, so it is a realistic scenario. I also think that data on the Bauer system at least might be available. The question is would you want to provide a 2nd system for what might be a small market ?

The issue of multiple pulses being sent and their legality is I suspect a red herring as this was used in the original (?) RCDT system back in the mid 80s, in fact it was a requirement of the receiver to get, if I remember correctly, two coded pules within 0.25s or else the DT wouldn't operate. If not legal then a switch would be required to send just a single pulse when the unit is being inspected I guess................

CHE

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afb
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« Reply #126 on: March 21, 2017, 01:29:50 PM »

Che

The Bauer instructions give insufficient detail for *my* purposes - I've mailed Ken for further clarification.

Alan
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rivers
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« Reply #127 on: March 21, 2017, 04:44:32 PM »

Hi all, For what it's worth I build my own RDT systems which closely follow the Bauer format, except I use spread spectrum (LoRa) transceivers for greater range. When the transmit button is down RDT pulses are generated at an 8 per second rate continuously. The pulses are negative going 50 ms wide.

I think it's a good idea to have continuous pulsing. At long range the target model may be low, with the line of sight not so good, as well as RF propagation difficulties. Multiple shots are a help.

I don't think the Bauer system was originally conceived with motor stop on mind. Nevertheless, it works well with timers configured to stop the motor with RDT. My own timers are designed to stop the motor then automatically DT 1.4 seconds later. I think the FAI rules for contest flying are pretty clear on this, any use of radio must end in DT.

 
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rogermorrell
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« Reply #128 on: March 22, 2017, 01:00:59 PM »

As one of the originators of this RDT stuff along with Ken Bauer I support Dick Ivers comments - I think the RDT Tx should send multiple pulses
"to make sure it gets through". I have tried different other "clever" combos of pulse sequences etc and with the simple radio protocols we use they are just not reliable.   To reliably have some more complex system you need to have a 2 way transmission between the two radios so they know the signal was successfully received.    Ken is a F1A flyer and at the time we did the original work most power flyers would not entertain using any form of electronics so the possible need to stop the motor then activate the after a delay D/T did not arise.

Because in my MAGIC timers I let the sportsman decide what actions to take on the receipt of the RDT signal he can decide what actions and sequences are appropriate for his particular model - shut off motor/engine, pop stabilizer and/or wing, move rudder etc possibly with delays.  I also agree with Dick that rules say the object is to terminate the flight of  the model i.e. D/T so that has to happen. 

In the early days of F1Q in the USA I observed some people in a FF competition using  a regular R/C system to cut the motor and later D/T the model. That is clearly outside of the rules.  You might want to use this during testing.

I have built timers that would let you use a regular R/C Rx as the RDT system - where for example using the throttle stick to do from full throttle to full slow would D/F the model, the timer making the decision based on the length of the pulse.  The ideas was to see RDT costs coul;d be reduced by using an inexpensive regular R/C set instead of the more specialized and expensive RDT. Nice theory but cheap, small R/C sets don't have the range required to RDT  a performance FF model.

Roger
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