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Author Topic: Freewing Mirage 2000C-5 , A tiger by the tail  (Read 2457 times)
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OZPAF
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« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2017, 05:58:23 PM »

That's a crying shame re the destroyed model - particularly when a bit of basic info would have helped.
John
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Konrad
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« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2017, 06:39:56 PM »

So true!!! I'd like to add basic and technically accurate information needs to be provided!

I understand MotionRC, with her limited technical breadth, would want to ask the OEM Freewing about changes to the manual. But taking years, to incorporate what their company pilots where screaming about in the sales video, and that of other knowable customers, not just me, were complaining about. I'm dumb founded!!!

Not really, just pissed that an organization is trying to get away with this. This isn't unique to MotionRC to a large extent it is typical of many USA firms. They hope than burying their head in the sand will exonerate them from any liability. I can only hope that with Google and the internet that the truth will come out from behind the shrills and misleading ad campaigns. 

I have to admit that 3 years ago when I was looking first look at foam R/C models for a low emotional investment modeling experience I was impressed by MotionRC.  I was pleasantly surprised when I saw MotionRC actually say in bold red letters; That a brand they sold was not the best and was in fact a second tier brand. But that with a little work the products were a great value for the money. The brand was Dynam.  I was so impressed with this level of frank honesty that I actually bought  a 70mm jet that I wasn't even in the market for. With a bit of rework I got a very capable Meteor jet for half the price of the comparable Habu jet.

I have to be clear that I have not suffered at the hands of MotionRC. Not for lack of trying on MotionRC's part, but because I like most here on HIP am an experienced modeler and often know what pitfalls to look out for.

MotionRC, please do right by your customers and reverse this trend of contempt for your customer.

I don't know if MotionRC has had a change in management  or what happened behind the scenes but the customer experience has definitely fallen by the wayside in the last year or so at MotionRC. They are not on my "DO NOT PURCHASE FROM LIST" yet, but they are the last place I will patronize if I have other options.

All the best,
Konrad
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Cut it twice and it's still too short!
Konrad
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« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2017, 10:28:28 AM »

I need to acknowledge when a firm is moving in the right direction, all be it so slowly.

MotionRC has finally put in writing that the ailerons are to fast if set up per the manual.
https://www.motionrc.com/blogs/motion-rc-blog/a-quick-review-of-the-freewing-80-90mm-edf-jets

The post is in error as the aileron throw should be 25% to 35% of that throw shown in the manual. Not turned down 25% to 35% from that found in the manual. Again recall their own pilots in their sales video screaming turn down the ailerons to 40% of the throw in the manual. 65% of throw is still way too fast for a maiden flight.

This notice of over controlling of the ailerons should be posted on the Mirage 2000's sales page in red. Not hidden deep in some MotionRC blog.

It is good to see MotionRC moving in the right direction, even if it is a half hearted attempt. Angry

All the best,
Konrad
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Konrad
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« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2018, 10:55:16 PM »

What a half hearted attempt from Freewing!

Notice the hard black torn curtain vs the soft blended line of the original. Same with the hard colors in the eyes. No radiating lines in the eyes, Also this tiger will starve as the eyes don't focus. Yellow is again a hard line. The orange does have the soft blend, so Freewing does have the knowledge and technique to do this should they choose to in their decals.

At least they now have admitted that the unvented  black canopy is a problem. But rather than address this at the point of manufacture they want you to buy an upgrade kit. I think these are the nice 3D printed parts from RCGeek.com

Glad to see they have gone away from that horrible 12 bladed impeller to a more sane 9 bladed unit. This is a big plus.
But V2 should have split the tail surfaces into four elements, 2 elevators and 2 ailerons. Again what a lost opportunity to truly improve the product! To say nothing about editing the information in the manual.

Yes, mine is still missing 6 stripes. Like all scale models it is a work in progress!

All the best,
Konrad
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Konrad
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« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2018, 01:02:38 PM »

Last Wednesday I got the chance to help maiden a FreeWIng Mirage 2000-5c V2 Tiger Meet. I have to say the new 9 bladed rotor and higher Kv motor are a much much better match to the airframe than that gross 12 bladed  EDF unit. The new FreeWing power system almost has the performance I was getting from the set up I’m using at 6K ft altitude. The set up I’m using is a JetFan driven by an 1850kv Neu motor. This actually is saying a lot for a system that costs about $50 verses $150 plus for the JetFan.

Unfortunately this is about the extent of the good news! For a brief moment I was actually expecting to see a conscience response from the corporations involved. I was duped into this feeling of euphoria after seeing an addendum fall out of the manual as I opened it up. My heart sank when I realized that Freewing and MotionRC failed to take the opportunity with the addition of the addendum to correct the gross safety issue with the control set up. All the addendum dealt with is the specification for the new power system. FreeWing and MotionRC failed to take their responsibility to address the gross safety issue that their improper set up recommendation create.
Again the ailerons response needs to be cut down to 40% of that stated in the manual v1 for the maiden flight! It is irresponsible and unconscionable to try to use this error in the manual to drive the sale of a gyro. The use of a gyro is to augment stability. Not to take the place of improper data found in the OEM manual!

As FreeWing and MotionRC failed to address the real safety concerns it really is too much to expect them to address the other issues with the FreeWing Mirage 2000-5c. Some of the issues I’ve noticed are that the materials and process are note suitable for a model that is more than a basic trainer. While the FreeWing Mirage 2000-5c is not a high performance model by any stretch of the imagination, it is not a basic trainer. For a stand way back scale model, EPO is wholly inadequate as the surface finish is atrocious. The EPO material and process used by FreeWing results in a product that is not stable outside of an air conditioned environment. If allowed to reach the nominal air temperatures often seen at an air field it with blister. If the model is painted a dark color (often the case with military aircraft) this critical temperature for the stability of the foam is reached at a much lower ambient outside temperature, if exposed to the sun for any length of time (this is measured in minutes)! Also Freewing has failed to develop a paint paint process that will allow the paint to adhere to the EPO and hold up to any handling of the model. These problems are not unique to FreeWing as all EPO foam models exhibit these issues to some extent or other. This is why EPO is unsuitable for a scale model and particularly any dark model. EPO foam may be well suited to white entry level trainers. But at its current development it is the wrong material for a dark scale model if one hopes to have a model that looks passable as a scale model for more than five minutes after opening the shipping box.

While the FreeWing Mirage 2000-5c is not a performance model it has enough performance to warrant the use of split controls on the wings. The FreeWing Mirage 2000-5c is not a Fight Test, dollar tree foam board model, and should not be crippled by a control scheme that does not allow for the full use of the servo resolution for all the primary control inputs!

A work around to the servo resolution issue would be to move the control surface push rod closers to the servo’s rotational axis. The FreeWing Mirage 2000-5c v2 Tiger Meet has a nice upgrade in that it uses digital servos. These really are of no help if the control mechanics are not properly implemented. As delivered the control surface push rods on the FreeWing Mirage 2000-5c are not set up to use the full potential of the servos.

Now as to the esthetic look of the FreeWing Mirage 2000-5c v2 Tiger Meet the decals really look like something from a Toys R Us toy! I know this is an opinion rather than factual, but Freewing really has show its contempt for the scale modeler with these decals. There was no effort made is trying to transfer to look of the full size Mirage 2000-5c  Tiger Meet  to the FreeWing Mirage 2000-5c v2 Tiger Meet model. The graphic art work on the decals is atrocious!

I'm glade I was able to help with this maiden unlike the one where I arrived an hour too late! In the end, the guy was able to get in 4 truely enjoyable flights, no thanks to the data found in the manual!

Please don’t purchase this poorly executed model. It is best to wait for more reputable firms like FMS to bring out better thought out EDF models. You won’t be sorry to wait. Unlike the buyers remorse you will have after opening up the FreeWIng Mirage 2000-5c v2 Tiger Meet box, if you follow the manual!

All the best,
Konrad
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Cut it twice and it's still too short!
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