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Author Topic: VMC cookup?  (Read 11168 times)
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rgroener
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« Reply #150 on: August 15, 2017, 01:36:18 AM »

Pete, I was smiling when I read your covering report Grin Dont understand me wrong, I am not spitful (not sure if this is realy the right word... Roll Eyes)
I was smiling because it sounds like one of my own covering sessions. I am very glad, that I am not allone in this respect Wink

Normally nobody sees it, since you can decide what you want to post in the forum. Most projects seems to evolve flawles and as planed. As a newbie, it can be frustrating to see all those neat and clean builds while your own project seems to jump from mishap to mishap....

I appreciate your honest post Cheesy Dont worry, you are not allone Grin


Roman
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OZPAF
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« Reply #151 on: August 15, 2017, 02:13:08 AM »

I agree with Roman. it's probably more common than you think. I'm still at the stage of trying eliminate fuse twists. Covering problems are still to be met and faced Smiley

John
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« Reply #152 on: August 19, 2017, 04:45:11 AM »

The Jodel is still moving as shown in the attached photo. I substituted 1/32" wood for the note paper and the wheels will be bushed with Aluminium tube. I am debating whether to spray the tissue with ink to give a little body to the tissue colour. 
Ricky
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #153 on: August 20, 2017, 08:52:29 AM »

Jodel's looking very nice, Ricky.

Thanks for the support, Roman and John. Yes, I am probably not alone in making mess-ups during the construction process but I think I might be getting to new levels of gormlessness with this one.
Having finally got the tailplane covered in brown on top and plain tissue underneath, the next step was to realise that it should in fact be blue on both sides, like the rudder. So off comes the tissue again, and on goes the 'Cambridge blue'.
So, the tailplane's topside has now been covered twice, and the bottom three times (in three different colours). Is this a record for an unfinished model?  Grin
I have no excuse as I have a colour photo of Mike Kelsey's model (of the same aircraft) on the bench beside me as a reference, plus all the photos of the original aircraft that I have gathered, and even a published colour profile- all of which show the pale blue tail clearly.

In a couple of weeks I shall be returning to work; once again, supposedly, teaching children to engage their young brains with the challenging school curriculum. God help them!
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rgroener
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« Reply #154 on: August 20, 2017, 11:15:15 AM »

Ricky, nice Jodel. I also prefere thin balsa over paper parts. Not sure about the weight, but it's easier to make changes or sand it to a smooth fit.
Some colour could look nice on the white paper. Looking forward to hear about your decision.

Pete, good to hear that your Se5a is on its way. It's exciting to see what colours your Se5a will have at the end Grin
You still have summer holidays in the UK? Enjoy it!

Roman
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #155 on: August 21, 2017, 08:22:49 AM »

Well the tissue is on and hopefully won't be coming off again any time soon. I'm pleased with the colour of the 'Cambridge blue' which was a single small sheet I had which I think must have been unused from some previous kit. I'll probably shrink it all with a 5% Ezedope/water solution as recommended by Andrew, and then Ezedope applied with a sponge brush as he suggests. First though I'm going to experiment with a couple of old wing panels I've already covered in the same tissue.
I might try and get this finished for Peterborough Flying Aces on Sept 3rd.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #156 on: August 21, 2017, 08:31:50 AM »

I also painted the noseblock and cabane with acrylics mixed to match the tissue, and have tissue-covered the paper fuselage parts (as per plan except that I used manilla envelope paper rather than white to give a better slightly match to the balsa).
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #157 on: August 21, 2017, 02:11:31 PM »

The Kid has now just started on his Jodel.

Early days - reading instructions, and finding, cutting out and de-nibbing first parts.
Will be going for standard kit colour scheme and markings.

Dad keeping a watchful eye, but this one is his!
Expect, slow, sporadic, gradual - but hopefully steady - progress.

Smiley
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Andrew Darby
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« Reply #158 on: August 21, 2017, 03:14:16 PM »

....tissue-covered the paper fuselage parts (as per plan except that I used manilla envelope paper rather than white to give a better slightly match to the balsa).

I do that on my models often too, the cheap "poor quality" ones are quite thin and light...

Jon, the Jodel paper parts are on the VMC website, this is handy for the Jodel as only a "half pattern" along the centre line for the paper cowl is shown on the plan (because of a lack of space!). But it is full sized in the downloadable patterns sheet.

Andrew
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #159 on: August 21, 2017, 07:18:40 PM »

The first test panel experiment went okay: that is the spraying on of the 5% Ezedope solution for initial tautening. So, I bit the bullet and sprayed the SE5 parts too. Only one fluff so far... I put my thumb through one bit of the tailplane. The blue tissue has even worse wet stength than the kit's brown stuff it seems. Not to worry; I just recovered that half of the tailplane side (so that possibly now makes FOUR covering attempts for that section!)

Parts are now pinned down and drying overnight. Dare I look in the morning?
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rgroener
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« Reply #160 on: August 22, 2017, 01:10:25 AM »

Pete, coming along nicely. Sporty goal to finish it until Sept 3rd. At least it would be for me Grin

Great to see the Jodel started, good idea to start with reading of the instructions. I also should do this more... Roll Eyes
Looking forward to see progress on this one, no matter how slow, most important is, that it will bee finished at all. Keep the pics coming...
By the way, the Jodel Box seems to have a completely different shape than the other kit's I have seen Smiley

Roman

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Jack Plane
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« Reply #161 on: August 22, 2017, 01:57:04 AM »

Thanks for the cowling link Andrew.  He says also that he'd like to keep the original plan pristine and stick it on his bedroom wall, so we'll go to the library after Judo to photocopy it in parts onto A3 paper - fuselage, wings etc.  Given the choice then of cellophane or candle-wax on the joint areas, he knows his mind and wants to do wax.

Roman, the Jodel box hinges open from the top, rather than from the ends like our earlier VMC models, and has a printed slide-on wrapper on glossy paper.  The only departure from its standard rectilinear form is that it got biffed a bit in the post  Shocked  but contents happily unaffected!

Pete, sorry to hear about your bout of Tailplanitis, but love the SE5a's colour scheme.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #162 on: August 22, 2017, 04:11:45 AM »

Read the instructions first?! Keep the plan pristine?! Just what kind of monster have you spawned?!  Grin
Seriously though, it looks like another young Kit Scale contender is on the rise...

Very pleased this morning, with the way the water/Ezedope solution has shrunk the tissue on my SE5 . There are no wrinkles to speak of- something I'm not used to saying! Stronger Ezedope solution to follow, hopefully also without disaster.

Roman, I'm trying to emulate your high finishing standards so can I ask you about lettering again. I'm now fairly clear on the process by which you make and attach the decals (link to Roman's method: http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=585.msg128344#msg128344 )
but do you apply the letters before doping the model and then dope the whole thing together? Or do you dope the main covering and then apply the letters to the dope-finished surface? And if you DO add the letters last, once they are on, do you then dope over them or apply any sort of fix? I'm thinking maybe I won't, as I gave the decal tissue a layer of acrylic varnish before even cutting them out, but I'm slightly worried that they'll peel off when damp if they're efectively only glue-sticked on.
Thanks!
Pete
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #163 on: August 23, 2017, 06:35:04 AM »

Here are the results of the Ezedoped parts, all applied as directed (5% dope/water solution sprayed on for initial shrinkage, then 30% dope solution applied with a foam rubber 'brush'). Many thanks to Andrew, Scigs and others who, through their trials, pioneered the correct use of Ezedope to make it a usable product.

I did try to keep the dope as thinly spread and unpuddled as possible. The sponge brush was very useful for soaking up excess as I went. There are still a few lightish little streaks left after drying, and I had to add a little patch to the wing where the top and bottom covering touched. I should probably have let each side dry seperately. It does all go very baggy for both applications but the tissue held and I'm pleased with the results. I like the gentle sheen and tautness,  and it did what I wanted it to do, which was to leave the tissue a lot less transparent than with ordinary dope.
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #164 on: August 23, 2017, 06:44:31 AM »

Cheers for that report on Ezedope Pete.  I like the fact that it produces a more opaque surface... less laser marks to sand off first!  Grin

As the Kid has taken firm control of making his own Jodel, I'm inclined to suggest to him we go down the Ezedope route - so I can demonstrate first, but then leave him to it without worrying about normal dope burning Swiss cheese holes in his developing brain!
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #165 on: August 23, 2017, 06:51:05 AM »

I still sanded off the laser marks as much as I could. Good point about the the Ezedope addling your lad's brain less (too late for me of course) although I have to say it's certainly not as Eze to apply as normal dope. Perhaps they should rename it Trikkidope or something. And I don't really know why it's not sold in the 30/70 solution which works.
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« Reply #166 on: August 23, 2017, 06:59:28 AM »

Kid's now got the bit between his teeth!  He was being a bit sparing on the aliphatic glue, until I explained that a tad more won't add too much weight - but too little could result in weak joints that would be a nightmare to beef-up or repair after covering.

We've also decorated the wall above his modelling desk, including two piccies of the full size G-OLEM found online.  Interestingly, one version shows this Jodel wearing pants and spats - an earlier incarnation?

He wants to know if he can compete with the finished model....

 Cheesy
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Andrew Darby
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« Reply #167 on: August 23, 2017, 07:59:04 AM »

Looking good chaps.

I think I recall Scigs calling Ezedope "a beast" and I think he is right!

I think Ezedope is a bit of a misnomer, probably "less smelly dope" or "acrylic dope", it is certainly less Eze than dope but does offer some advantages.  i also wonder about the 70/20 thing, and also why the jar is so large, you could certainly have one a 1/4 of the size and it still do a number of models and it would be cheaper in the post.

Dope never me any harm - he said twitching gently...

Jon, from my research the Jodel developed the spats later, I chose the early version to keep things simple.

Andrew

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TheLurker
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« Reply #168 on: August 23, 2017, 02:08:50 PM »

...and then Ezedope applied with a sponge brush as he suggests.
Please excuse me butting in...

I tried the sponge brush (pack of three from Rymans under a fiver) approach on one of the lower wings on my Camel having used a brush on the last build.  *Makes wavy hand gesture*. Was OKish, but went back to using my best quality soft 1/2" brush.  Don't use a cheap brush. Mine cost about 8 quid from an artists' supply shop.  

The trick, if there is one, is to get just enough on the brush for a couple or four strokes.  Wet the brush in the 30% sol'n then dab it on paper towel to take off the excess then apply in || lines from LE/TE (or t'other way about) on wings and across the shortest sides of other panels.  Given the bottle is so large the losses to the paper towel, especially on a small model are negligible.

The sponge brush technique is pretty widely recommended for EzeDope so it may be that there are better quality sponge brushes than those I got from Rymans which make all the difference to the result.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #169 on: August 24, 2017, 07:28:15 AM »

My foam brush was very cheap from 'The Works'; just a piece of ordinary foam rubber on a stick. I'm happy the results of it on the main covering, but am not quite so happy with the decals which had another layer of Ezedope once fixed on with water and gluestick. The trouble is that everything quickly goes a bit baggy again with water, so I didn't really have a taut surface to fix to. I may try and smooth out the wrinkles on the big circles a bit more, or just live with them. Anyway, they're on! I'm nearly ready to nail this beast together so here's a pic of the parts...
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rgroener
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« Reply #170 on: August 24, 2017, 02:40:09 PM »

Pete, sorry for the late reply...
I apply the letters after doping the wing or fuselage. After the letters in place, I add one more layer of dope just over the characters to stick better to the wing / fuselage,
Your model looks very good, very nice finishing job!

Roman
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #171 on: August 24, 2017, 04:01:05 PM »

Thanks, Roman- that's what I did anyway, albeit with Ezedope. The wing decals, after a bit more water brushed on here and there, seem to be settling down a bit now and I'm a bit happier. Your 'glue stick re-activated with water' method was very easy and I would never have thought of it, so big thanks!

I'm really enjoying this last phase of construction as it all comes together and starts to look the part. The four card pieces which comprise the forward fuselage's topside were a delight to put on because they, like everything else in this kit, fitted so perfectly. Exhaust pipes and rocker covers also now on. The kit-recommended finish represents the Shuttleworth example, but for my own satisfaction I am making just a few minor changes to keep it in line with G-EAXT. For instance, the exhaust pipes are a little bit shorter on mine. Also, mine will need some cockpit coaming so that's the next job (unlike the Shuttleworth SE5a, whose cockpit has no coaming but a more easily modelled deadly sharp edge. Seems a bit surprising really, but there it is.)
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #172 on: August 24, 2017, 04:52:44 PM »

Having failed to persuade The Lurker to include his nice Camel in this cook-up, here's a link to its appearances in the other thread (and one of his photos for good measure!)
http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=11333.1100
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #173 on: August 26, 2017, 01:45:24 PM »

Well, talking of Biggles (which the Kid has recently voraciously read although his dad somehow missed out on in the 70s), on our first day of a short holiday on the East Coast, with the Woman pottering around a girlie shop and us in a craft centre, nestled amongst pots and hand-made coasters and carved wildfowl from China, what did we come across...?

...a very nice selection of VMC's Darby-designed kits!  Cheesy

And so, unable to resist, the choice, to be built for CO2, came down to a Tiggie or a Camel.  I reckoned on the Tiggie, but the Kid reasoned that the short nose movement of the Camel would be ideal for CO2, and despite my knowing that the Camel would be much harder to get flying properly, we went for the Biggles option!

Its currently doubled-bagged so the Woman knows nothing about it, but I might just have to whip the plans out for a sneak preview!  Grin
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #174 on: August 26, 2017, 04:19:05 PM »

Well done. I've got one in the wings too (so to speak). We may have to have a cookup just for Camels at some point.

Incidentally, talking of Biggles' Camel- can anyone explain something which has long confused me:
 When Biggles gets out of his aeroplane after a sortie, W. E. Johns says that he sits on "the hump of his Camel" before jumping down. Well, either W. E. Johns thought the hump meant the turtle deck behind the cockpit, or else Biggles was somehow contorting himself to sit on what everyone else considers to be the Camel's hump (ie. the fairing over the guns' breeches)!

Perhaps I should get out more.
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