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Author Topic: Embryonic Elf  (Read 1898 times)
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skyrocket
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« on: December 19, 2016, 03:51:56 PM »

This is the Embryonic Elf I've been flying the past 2 years...it is around 20 grams, flies on 4 x 1/8" braided, 8" D. x 10" P. carved Roberts prop...all 4 built so far fly right off the building board with a little weight in the nose...and they all fly the same...plans were drawn from a 90% reduction of the original Elite Elf from post-war
Limeyland and by Albert Hatfield (yes, THAT Albert Hatfield or Hatfull)...
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Embryonic Elf
Embryonic Elf
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Mooney
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« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2016, 11:12:57 PM »

Looks great! Are you maxing with it?
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skyrocket
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« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2016, 10:53:49 AM »

yes and it's trouble-free once you get the balance set, just take it out of the box and fly it...I've tried it with an under-cambered wing and a flat bottom one and it doesn't seem to make a difference...the original made from the Elite Model Supply plan flew the same way...the curved air foil shaped fuselage requires a little fiddly work but with stringy 1/16" square longerons, it isn't bad...I believe someone has a plan in the plans list but I won't release one until I get one more season in with it.
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FLYACE1946
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« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2016, 07:56:21 PM »

This one is another embryo  that just looks right to jump off the table. Looks mighty nice.
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skyrocket
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« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2016, 09:50:19 PM »

yep...it likes a little breeze but gets up in a tight spiral...a totally different flight pattern than say, a Debut, which goes up like a miniature Unlimited ship, much like Gordon's "Synthesis"  back in the day...I suppose I could use 4 x 3/32" on a calm day and reduce the AUW but I'm happy with the climb so far...stay tuned...
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scrubs
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« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2016, 10:04:31 AM »

Cute Dave. Are the wing supports a little higher than the original plan? Or is it an illusion from the pics?

bill
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skyrocket
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« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2016, 01:24:47 PM »

Yes they are but I lost that one at 13 minutes over the field this summer because I didn't light the fuse!...on the new one  I eliminated the supports and strapped it right to the top and retained the wing dowels...
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pburress
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« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2017, 05:56:39 PM »

Love this design!  Do you know where I might find a plan for this?
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PB_guy
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« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2017, 08:42:52 PM »

When I looked for the plan, I only found a jpeg. I did do a redraw of the original plan. Inch markings on the plan.
Original attached as well.
ian
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Re: Embryonic Elf
Re: Embryonic Elf
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pburress
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« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2017, 01:23:02 PM »

Thanks!  Boy, that sure seems like a lot of incidence!

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skycafe
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« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2017, 05:43:34 PM »

That is a lovely looking covering job and airplane.   That it is a funky shape adds to the appeal.
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skyrocket
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« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2017, 11:32:05 AM »

I'm building #5 right now as I stomped on my Debut at Geneseo at the last Great Grape Gathering out of frustration - it just wouldn't fly consistently and was getting a little "worn"...I'm laminating the tips and cutting down the incidence a bit which was a problem...I'll pass on some photos once I get building...if this one flies as well as #3, I'll sell the plans through "snail mail" for a small amount. I did see the digital plan at the top of this column but I prefer to draw my plans. There are so many excellent draftsmen/draftswomen out there that give a certain amount of character to a plan that makes you want to build it and I enjoy drawing.
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OneArm
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« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2017, 08:52:05 AM »

What size wood are you using on the Elf? The drawing scales 3/32, but could see using 1/16. Thanks
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skyrocket
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« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2017, 10:04:49 AM »

I'm using 1/16" squares. I'll be testing the new one soon but the weather took a turn (Ohio) so I'll have to wait a little while. I did test glide it and the CG pegged okay so I might have to wait until KOI to fly it.
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OneArm
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« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2017, 10:14:17 AM »

Thanks. Yeah, I'm in Pittsburgh, so same weather
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skyrocket
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« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2017, 03:13:06 PM »

yep...you are 2 1/2 hours away...my wife's daughter lives in Blawnox just up river...
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pburress
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« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2017, 01:41:36 PM »

I printed these plans and have the parts cut for this one.  I think I will be building it soon!  If so, I will update with my results.
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skyrocket
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« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2017, 04:42:02 PM »

I pre-bent the bottom longerons before I pinned it down and eliminated the goal posts for the wing to give it less incidence - about 2 degrees at the most or you will have to add a ton of nose weight. It flies just as well with under-camber as with a flat bottom airfoil...good luck and be sure to add a D/T.
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pburress
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« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2017, 05:30:16 PM »

Thanks, I will definitely add a D/T!  I was already thinking I would soak the longerons and pre-bend overnight.  I will probably start with 1.5 degrees incidence.  I assume and hope the CAD drawing(showing the flat bottom airfoil) that you posted is accurate, because that's what I'll be building from!  I need to recover an ancient Korda Wakefield that I inherited, then I will start the Elf.  

What is your wingspan, and do you have an idea of the actual Sq/in?  I figured it at about 19" for just under 50 sq. in.

Phil
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skyrocket
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« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2017, 06:56:37 PM »

I didn't draw that CAD drawing and I don't make any claims to it's accuracy. I drew it by hand as I do most of my models because I LOVE the look of hand-drawn plans...there are so many beautiful model drawings out there - it's staggering!....my wing worked out to 49.6 square inches and was reduced from the original plan until I got under 50 square inches. I didn't change much of the construction, just modernized it  some....#5 came out around 18 grams and that's good enough for me...
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pburress
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« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2017, 02:39:28 PM »

I'll start cutting wood on my Embryonic Elf tonight!  Looking forward to it.

skyrocket, two things:  1)  I'm thinking about reducing that incidence down to about 1 1/2%.  Sound about right?   2) Just wanted to say that my DeBut embryo from the Easybuilt kit files very well and consistent- so don't give up on that design.   Funny how an otherwise good design can give you fits trimming, but fly right off the board for others.  My half Gollywock from the OReilly plans is like that.  Looks beautiful but I am have a tough time getting it trimmed.
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skyrocket
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« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2017, 10:17:57 AM »

I hear ya...I'm going out at noon today and spend some time trimming the Elf, 1/2 size Golly, 1/2 size Hepcat, full size Elite Skyrocket and my P-30...should be enough to keep me out of trouble...suppose to be 3 mph winds and 45 degrees temp...one and a half degrees sounds good to me as I like to lock down the wing incidence first and then play with the CG before attempting to add tail incidence...about the Debut : I found out the hard way in trimming it and still didn't like what I saw but I think it was the builder and not the model...anything under 20 grams should blow the socks off most models but I could never get consistantly good flights from it. I ended up taking the gear, prop and wheel pants off it and stomping on it. I will build another one in the future from Gordon's original plans and get it under 18 grams. The interesting thing I failed to realize is that he flew it like a minature Unlimited with a P/D of 1.25...I still believe in the 8" x 1" x 3/4" prop he used.
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skyrocket
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« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2017, 05:00:53 PM »

The weather(wo)man was right for once : 2-3 mph, GUSTING to 5 mph, bright sun, perfect field...
Embryonic Elf flew right off the board...no trimming required but only 500 winds right now. I had to add a penny to get the glide right but I did that last week in the backyard...
1/2 size Gollywock also needed a little nose weight but the climb was a nice tight cork screw. Nice glide...
1/2 size Hepcat is a little squirrely and needs the stab packed up a little but the glide is fine. I might wind up locking it down.
My Panther P-30 was scary on low turns because it just went up in a perfect pattern with a nice smooth glide so I put it back in the box...but...
The Elite Skyrocket (1945) required no adjustments, prop fold, and floated around pretty as you please, also on low turns and put it back in the box in fear of losing it before KOI...
So, all in all, I'm pleased with everything I built in the last 2 months and after I finish a new 'coupe, I'll get started on a full size Lamb's Climber which is one sweet looking beastie...with a 16" folder no less!!!
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pburress
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« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2017, 12:08:03 PM »

Got the Elf all framed up, just about ready to cover!  Debating whether to use viscous or fuse D/T...

Skyrocket, I'm interested in more details of the flight pattern...  I don't have any airplanes that go up in the way that you describe. I'm afraid that I will be adding down thrust unnecessarily as I trim it out, or something like that.
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Re: Embryonic Elf
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Mikek
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« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2017, 09:15:18 AM »

Just came across this thread. The Elf is very nice looking. Much more appealing than those long skinny fuselage embryos that everyone seem to be flying!
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