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Author Topic: BMJR Tail Firster  (Read 2805 times)
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NeilH
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« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2016, 08:27:13 PM »

While the 6 x 3/32 motor has about 2/3 the torque of the 6 x 1/8, it is about 1/3 more than the 4 x 1/8.  I'm hoping it's a good compromise.

Neil
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danberry
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« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2016, 11:09:21 PM »

 :)there is one way to find out.
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DerekMc
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« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2016, 12:32:09 AM »

I've had success with 10 strands of 1/16". It works great in my Boomer.
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NeilH
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« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2017, 12:47:12 PM »

Progress has stopped while we locate and repair a water leak under our concrete and tile floor.
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NeilH
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« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2017, 03:38:50 PM »

A little more progress as time permits while looking for a source for leak detection equipment. Spending our winters in Mexico certainly has its challenges.
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Flyguy
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« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2017, 04:22:23 PM »

Looking really nice Neil! This convinces me to buy the kit, looks nice. Looking forward seeing the rest of the build and some flying, hope you get that pesky leak fixed.
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NeilH
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« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2017, 01:57:48 PM »

The bones are finished except for final sanding.  I didn't bring any dope or covering materials with me so it won't get covered until we go home in April. Now to start something new.
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NeilH
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« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2017, 02:45:01 PM »

Time for an update.  We arrived home in time to get the tax man satisfied and then on to more important things like finishing the Tail Firster.  I used one of the free wheeling latches from Volare products and it's much simpler than the one shown on the plans.  The framework and prop, etc. weighs 28 grams so it should be close to 40 grams final weight.  I have covered the fuselage with light silkspan and am using Esaki tissue on the rest.  Will post more pictures soon.

Neil
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NeilH
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« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2017, 01:06:19 AM »

Status report.  We had our 4 year old great-granddaughter for the last 3 days so we were very busy but nothing got done.  I did get a couple of status pictures attached.  One shows the fuselage and front wing covered and finished and the main wing half covered.  The second shows the prop and drive shaft with the Volare Products free wheeling latch.  Mush simpler than the system shown on the plans and also allows for changing props.  Hope to finish covering this week.  Then rig the d/t.
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NeilH
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« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2017, 11:31:30 PM »

Finally have it completed.  39.7 grams ready to fly. Have not balanced with a motor so may have to add ballast.  Messed up some of the tissue so will have to do some patching in spots that came out wrinkled.  Pictures to follow.
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NeilH
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« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2017, 03:43:03 PM »

OK, here it is.  Nothing fancy but at 39.7 grams I'm hoping for decent performance.
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danberry
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« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2017, 06:06:30 PM »

It will do fine.
How does it DT?
I don't see any address labels.
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NeilH
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« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2017, 06:31:03 PM »

The address label is the small white patch on the fuselage in front of the aft wing.  The d/t will pop up the trailing edge of the aft wing, similar to a pop up tail.  I think that should be more effective than a pop up tail.  However, if that doesn't work then I will have to figure out some way to make a pop off wing.
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danberry
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« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2017, 06:36:36 PM »

Ah. I put labels on all 3 pieces.
A fuse in the wing right where your rubbers are hooked will burn through a rubber band and ----voila!--- the wing comes off.
I'm thinking that you will get a flat-spin helicopter event with the wing popped up. If it does that it will be a slow descent.
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NeilH
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« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2017, 12:47:26 PM »

With a pop up tail on a conventional configuration, the cg is below the wing so when the tail pops up the model comes down with the wing and body flat.  My assumption is with the cg ahead of the main wing it will be at some negative angle as well as the forward body and forward wing at a positive angle, hopefully coming down faster.
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NeilH
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« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2017, 04:54:41 PM »

Well, after about a half dozen trimming  flights the Tail Firster is looking pretty good.  I've added 1.1 grams of ballast to the nose to get the cg where it belongs and a 1/16th shim under the trailing edge of the main wing.  41.4 grams all up less rubber.  A slight tilt to the front wing gives nice right circles in power and glide.  With 600 turns on a 6x1/8x20 motor it climbs very steeply and transitions into a nice glide.  Almost lost it into the trees surrounding our small field but at the last minute it turned away and returned.  Next time I'll try a 6x3/32x26 motor for comparison.

Neil
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NeilH
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« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2017, 03:06:44 PM »

More observations.  With the 6x3/32 motor, even braided it seems to knot up in the nose, shifting the cg, so I'll stay with 6x1/8.  The pop up aft wing d/t works pretty well but I am going to increase the angle from 45 deg to 60-70 deg to increase the descent rate.  A very impressive model once its trimmed out.

Neil H
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FF Bruce
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« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2017, 06:01:21 PM »

Neil, are you coming to Tangent in Aug.?Would like to see your model fly and bring your E-20.
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danberry
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« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2017, 06:42:27 PM »

More observations.  With the 6x3/32 motor, even braided it seems to knot up in the nose, shifting the cg, so I'll stay with 6x1/8.  The pop up aft wing d/t works pretty well but I am going to increase the angle from 45 deg to 60-70 deg to increase the descent rate.  A very impressive model once its trimmed out.

Neil H
My experience with long motor bunching in the nose was the same.
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NeilH
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« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2017, 07:17:14 PM »

Hi Bruce,

I'm not sure about August.  My wife likes to come along which means a motel and with the eclipse everything available is running about $250 a night. But never say never.  I am planning on making Sept and/or Oct though.

Neil
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flydean1
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« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2017, 07:42:28 PM »

RE: rubber bunching.  Some years ago, the FAC crowd discovered if the motor is mounted on an aluminum tube two or more sizes up from the cross tube that anchors the motor, the rubber was less likely to bunch. 

I proved it myself on some of my scale models I built back then and it works.  Braided motors 3 X hook to hook length no problem.  You can ground test the concept with junk rubber motors the appropriate length and cross section and the fuselage clamped in the winding stooge. 

Your P30 fuselage is a bit tighter than my scale models so it might not work.

Worth a try though.
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NeilH
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« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2017, 02:45:33 PM »

FFBruce, good news!  My wife discovered we have enough Best Western points from all of our travels that we get a free night so I'll  see you in Tangent.  Won't be there until Friday afternoon but I should have the Tail Firster and the E 20.  I think I'll have to rename it "Patches", it's starting to show its age.

Neil
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NeilH
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« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2017, 12:31:39 PM »

Well, I made it down to Oregon last weekend for my first contest with the Tail-Firster.  It was also my first flight with max winds/torque and also significant wind.  It had been climbing steeply with about 70% and with max turns it wanted to go vertical and just hang on the prop for the initial burst, then climb steeply. I managed a max for my first flight, then thought maybe a little up thrust on the aft prop would help but that reduced the climb and only got 81 sec on my second flight.  By then the wind was back and I wimped out.  So back to trimming.  Maybe reduce the incidence on the forward wing and maybe the nose ballast.

Neil
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danberry
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« Reply #48 on: August 22, 2017, 01:21:10 PM »

A touch of down and right thrust.
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NeilH
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« Reply #49 on: August 22, 2017, 02:14:00 PM »

Up thrust on a pusher configuration is the same as down thrust on a conventional config.
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