Logo
Builders' Plan Gallery  |  Hip Pocket Web Site  |  Contact Forum Admin  |  Contact Global Moderator
March 01, 2017, 02:57:58 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with email, password and session length
 
Home Help Search Login Register
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build  (Read 1685 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
abl
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 1
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 14

Topic starter


Ignore
« on: December 31, 2016, 11:47:48 AM »

I built an Andreason BA-4B from the original Walt Mooney plan ages and ages ago - can't quite remember when, possibly when I was still at school in the late 1970s or early 1980s - I don't remember how it flew (probably into a wall, my trimming technique hasn't really improved much) but it had a Sleek Streak 5 1/2" prop and was covered in blue and yellow Jap tissue with red trim.

I'm just getting back into indoor scale and have been lurking on here for a while, so thought I ought to poke my head above the parapet and do a build thread; I felt the urge for a biplane and I've had the kit for a while so it was a case of almost instant gratification - just needed to work out which cupboard it was in, clear the building board and have at it.

I took the attached pictures an hour or so ago to catch the fading daylight, I think I've probably spent about 3 hours on it so far (am not a quick builder, although I used to be able to build a Keil Kraft flying scale kit in two to three weeks, including cutting out all the formers and ribs from rock 'ard wood). The kit is changed from the original plan in various subtle ways, I think the original's wingtips were probably built flat on the plan and I think this is what it shows on the small black and white instruction picture, but the front view shows the wing-tips angled up to meet the top of the wing surface, so that's what I've done.

There are a few other changes, the kit has a thinner airfoil and a bit more incidence and it looks as though the c.g. might have shift forwards a tad, but I'm going to try and set everything up exactly as it says in the instructions and hope that it can teach me how not to be an impatient ham-fisted oaf when trimming models indoors... Smiley.

I have another few days off work so barring this evening's festivities, I'm going to try and spend a decent amount of time at the building board over the next few days, and we'll see where we get to.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
Logged
SP250
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 3
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 226



Ignore
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2016, 12:41:41 PM »

abl

Nice to see someone getting back into indoor flying.
Don't know where you live, but April 23rd is the date for the Indoor FF Nats - stick it in your diary if you can get along.
Being held at Walsall its fairly central and we are always looking for more participants or even just spectators.
Good luck with the build.

Cheers John
Logged
abl
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 1
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 14

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2017, 11:23:26 AM »

Hi John - I'm in Windsor, so getting to Walsall isn't a problem; Sunday April 23rd is in the diary.

Herewith pics of the - slightly modified - fuselage sides, think I'm going to have to sand and cover the cabane struts before going much further with the fuselage because it looks to be much more difficult after the sides are joined. Going to need some in-fill on the fuselage around the struts as well, otherwise there's nowhere to attach the tissue. And as other people have noted, F1 is a little bit (about 1/16" on each side) too wide so will need fixing.

Stabiliser is almost-but-not-quite as per plan, I'm planning a separate rudder to make trimming easier (the fin/rudder join is just visible if you look carefully), thinking of using 3 short bits of 10-15A fuse wire although I hear that strips cut from milk bottle tops work quite well; might have to do some experimentation to work out which is best.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
Re: Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
Re: Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
Logged
abl
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 1
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 14

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2017, 04:25:50 PM »

Top wing is finished, flying surfaces are sanded and ready to cover. Tail surfaces weigh 0.39g, top and bottom wings together weigh 1.68g . I have no idea whether those are encouraging numbers or not.  Smiley

The rudder was eventually hinged with short (~6 mm) bits of wire stripped from the plastic-coated tie wraps that are used to wrap cables from electric appliances (electric razors, etc.), inserted into holes drilled with a 0.5 mm drill. Tried 15 Amp fuse wire but it felt a bit too stiff.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
Re: Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
Logged
abl
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 1
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 14

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2017, 11:04:24 AM »

Spent yesterday afternoon and a bit of this morning on the fuselage, it's not looking too bad - as shown here, the fuselage weighs 3.38 grams. It does seem to be completely straight (unusual for me) although there may possibly be some minor errors that are only noticeable from certain viewing angles.

F1 needed a minor modification as shown on photo #2, what wasn't immediately apparent is that F4 is a bit too tall by about 2mm, and the slots are a bit out of line, had to cut some new ones and fill-in the old ones.

The plan isn't really clear on what to do about the tail area, so I've tack-glued in a couple of thick 1/16" spacers so that the stabiliser can be slid in afterwards, and faired-in all the stringers.

Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
Re: Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
Re: Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
Re: Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
Logged
abl
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 1
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 14

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2017, 11:45:01 AM »

It's always the last fiddly bits that take the time...

Couldn't work out how to reliably glue the undercarriage at first, eventually made a jig from scrap 1/16" sheet which dealt with the problem - wire was tacked in place with tiny drops of medium cyano, then glued with the smallest amount of 20 minute epoxy that I thought I could get away with.

I think the standard N2 is just the wrong shape, had to make a replacement; I don't think I made a constructional faux pas in the nose area...

I was originally planning to assemble all the parts for a "before covering" photo in the time-honoured tradition of real aeromodelling magazines everywhere, but it would require an awful lot of time and effort tack-glueing, waiting for it to set, doing the next bit, going back to the first bit because a bit has fallen off, etc., so I'm afraid I settled on the "separate parts" view in photo 3.

I've added various extra bits of balsa for practical reasons; two worth noting are:

  • 1/16" square brace between F1 and F2, otherwise F1 looked as though it would just bend if downthrust packing was used;
  • scrap 1/16" on the inside of the centre section ribs because the top of the centre section structs are a little narrower than the ribs.

As shown, all the built parts weigh 6.48 grams. All the other bits (prop, wheels, etc.) come to 3.62 grams, so total weight at this point is 10.1 grams. I have an idea that that's a little on the heavy side, but I'm guessing, to be honest...
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
Re: Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
Re: Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
Logged
cbaker65
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 0
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 24




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2017, 02:48:44 PM »

Nice build ,love to do one!... Cool
Logged

Balsa Ace
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 14
Offline Offline

Canada Canada

Posts: 309


FAC Member



Ignore
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2017, 04:36:49 PM »

Very nice work.

Scott
Logged

Hawker Sea Fury FB.11
HMCS Magnificent
VF-871   RCN
MKelly
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 14
Online Online

United States United States

Posts: 228




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2017, 05:13:53 PM »

Really nice!  I have this kit in the closet for someday...
Logged
OZPAF
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 36
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 3,130



Ignore
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2017, 06:18:54 PM »

It looks neat - I should finish the one I started in 1978 Embarrassed

John
Logged
rgroener
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 22
Offline Offline

Switzerland Switzerland

Posts: 1,081



Ignore
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2017, 01:30:11 AM »

Very nice, I should build more peanuts again...


John, dont hurry, take your time Grin
Logged
OZPAF
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 36
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 3,130



Ignore
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2017, 02:57:27 AM »

You can't rush masterpieces( Roll Eyes Roman. Only the wings tail UC prop  etc to go. I started last century with luck I'll finish in the current one.

John
Logged
abl
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 1
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 14

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2017, 11:12:32 AM »

Thanks for the kind words, gents - and apols for the gap in posts, had to attend to another project that required the use of someone else's spray booth.

Executive Summary for this week: Had a covering fiasco, but think I might have just about got away with it.

For reasons that I now can't recall - it may have been related to the fact that several of my recent tail surfaces have turned out looking like Pringles - I decided to pre-shrink the tissue slightly before covering. So the (Jap) tissue was taped to a frame and passed through the steam from a kettle, and then when it had shrunk the tailplane was covered using the glue-stick-and-thinned-PVA method rather than dope & thinners which is what I've mainly used before. And everything worked out fine - there was a slight warp after covering but this went away when it was steamed to shrink again, pinned down with a bit of opposite warp packing. A coat of about 35/65 non-shrinking dope and I was confident that the wings would be fine...

Well, they weren't. The tissue went on OK, but there just wasn't enough shrinkage left to snug everything down properly before doping; I had a couple of goes at water-shrinking - airbrushed on very carefully - and eventually it looked sort-of OK, so I gave both wings a coat of 50/50 shrinking dope and luckily, it didn't look too bad.

So I thought I might as well do the decoration whilst everything was to hand, found a website at http://indooraero.homeunix.net/andreasson_fs.shtml that had some colour pictures; it needed a red starburst on the top wing (tissue) and black registration letters under the lower wing (tissue again). Now, for reasons that escape me, I thought it might be a good idea to dope the trim tissue before application, using instructions from a well-known publication on Peanuts...

Well, for me, it didn't work; the stripes were easy to cut out, but they were wrinkly and wouldn't snug down to the wing surface even with half a gallon of thinners. So I took them off and re-did them using un-doped tissue, and it worked fine, there were a few areas where the (quite large) front stripe didn't want to conform to the compound-curved doped tissue surface, but a drop or two of moisture shrunk it down nicely - a coat of thinned dope and you'd never know the difference.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
Re: Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 11:31:16 AM by abl » Logged
OZPAF
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 36
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 3,130



Ignore
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2017, 05:19:42 PM »

It looks pretty good to me actually. Those stripes really stand out and I think if I ever finish mine I will copy your scheme.
Good info on attaching tissue trim as I have never tried that - thanks.
John
Logged
abl
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 1
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 14

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2017, 04:59:11 PM »

Think I'm on the home straight, and just in time because it's indoor flying on Saturday; it may have to make it's maiden flight without a few minor details...

All the covering is done; I'm quite pleased with the fuselage, although the top of the cowling has come out a different colour to the rest of the fuselage because it's blue Jap tissue over a white rather than balsa-coloured surface. Control-surface outlines are done with a fine Stabilo permanent marker, this hasn't worked that well as the lines have bled slightly - but I'm hoping that no-one will notice...

The rudder was eventually hinged with three doubled bits of 5 Amp fusewire attached with medium odourless cyano.

The yellow rudder stripes were a bit of a problem - can't use yellow tissue over blue, obvs. - until this morning I realized that I could subvert the supplied stick-on decal sheet (which I'm not going to use) by painting it yellow and then cutting some strips the right width; this nearly worked, but the acrylic paint that I had to hand is a bit patchy when brush-painted. Nothing to do with my technique, of course. Maybe Humbrol enamel would have been better.

I'm prepared to fly it without an instrument panel and fuel filler, but it's got to have the fuselage registration letters; planning to cut them from white paper using a back-to-front pattern produced using TurboCad, attached using a glue stick. Can't recall having doing that before, but it should work...

Assembly starts on Wednesday and (famous last words) it shouldn't take long. Then we'll have the traditional sharp intake of breath as it goes on the scales...

Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
Logged
Jack Plane
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 6
Online Online

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 322




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2017, 05:10:58 AM »

Good to have you join here Abl - and good to see your build, which looks pretty good!  Smiley

I've got the same kit and intend to have it made in time for the Nats in April which will be my first Peanut entry (having entered for the first time last year in Kit Scale, which was brilliant).  There aren't a lot of examples around, so colour schemes are limited.

Look forward to seeing it completed, and kinder weather forecast for Friday if you're ready by then for a few outdoor trim flights...  Grin

Jon
Logged
abl
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 1
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 14

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2017, 04:25:11 PM »

I'd forgotten what a palaver it is to assemble biplanes, what with wing incidence/stagger jigs, sundry packing pieces, masking tape everywhere and a healthy degree of parnoia in case the glue sets whilst it's not quite in the right position; next time I'm going to do something to make things a bit easier, maybe some cocktail stick pegs in the wing roots and bits of 15A fuse wire in the strut ends, or something. But at least the wings are now on.

Everything was going quite well until it became obvious that there had been <ahem> a minor error. Knowing that there was 1/16" washout on the lower starboard wing and the same amount of washin on the port wing, I had arranged for the port and starboard interplane struts to have slightly different lower profiles to accommodate the differing wing twist. However, I had completely forgotten that there isn't a rib where the strut goes, so there's a large gap on both sides between the strut and the tissue (see photo 2) - I think the only way to do it really is to make the struts after the wings are attached. Or if I'd thought about it sooner, I could have added an extra rib...

Drat. Or drat, drat and double-drat as Dick Dastardly would probably say.

There's nothing for it, I'm going to have to make another couple of struts. This isn't a problem but it means that I'm going to miss indoor flying on Saturday - but at least there's a reasonable possibility that it'll get a few outdoor trimming flights before the March indoor session.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
Re: Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
Re: Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
Logged
OZPAF
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 36
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 3,130



Ignore
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2017, 04:37:23 PM »

Bad luck - what a pain Smiley How will you anchor the new struts if there is no rib available? It would be a shame to commit surgery on that nice wing covering.

John
Logged
abl
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 1
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 14

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2017, 05:38:18 PM »

I'm just going to go with the original set-up on the plan - strut-end glued to the lower-wing spar. Don't think there's a lot of point glueing the covering to the spar fairing, though.
Logged
Ray_K
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 9
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 356



Ignore
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2017, 08:50:47 PM »

2-16-2017

Nice job, to bad about the strut situation, I had built in an eztra rib when I had built mine quite a few years back, it was a great flyer until a tree ate it. I did not know the fuselage and rubber were black, I had done mine blue. Looking good.  Cheesy

Cheers, Ray K.
Logged
ZK-AUD
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 14
Offline Offline

New Zealand New Zealand

Posts: 423



Ignore
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2017, 12:11:34 AM »

Just had a look at this situation.  The technical term for this in NZ is a ballache.   I think your proposed fix is as good as any, but if you wanted to avoid making new struts and not having as strong a gluing surface you could retro fit a rib.  I would carefully cut out the section of covering on the top surface from the LE back to the spar, and slide the additional rib in from the front sideways using tweezers and then rotate it 90 degrees into position with a bit of aliphatic. The re-cover of that section is a minor issue.
Logged
Jack Plane
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 6
Online Online

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 322




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2017, 03:47:30 AM »

I'm just going to go with the original set-up on the plan - strut-end glued to the lower-wing spar. Don't think there's a lot of point glueing the covering to the spar fairing, though.

You're right, leave the fairing just touching the tissue.  If there's any sort of impact force (heaven forefend!) then the tissue will just compress slightly before resuming its shape, rather than tear.

I did not know the fuselage and rudder were black, I had done mine blue

Ray, I thought they looked very dark, if not black, but that was just in the one photo due to the lighting.  They are in fact proper blue as can be seen in the other photos.

But what's worrying me is the crispness of Andy's making and covering...  Grin
Logged
abl
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 1
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 14

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2017, 06:04:37 AM »


Just had a look at this situation.  The technical term for this in NZ is a ballache.   I think your proposed fix is as good as any, but if you wanted to avoid making new struts and not having as strong a gluing surface you could retro fit a rib.  I would carefully cut out the section of covering on the top surface from the LE back to the spar, and slide the additional rib in from the front sideways using tweezers and then rotate it 90 degrees into position with a bit of aliphatic. The re-cover of that section is a minor issue.

That's a really good suggestion and I gave it some serious thought, but decided - on balance - to go with the original plan because a) I've already started making the new struts, and b) I notice from the photograph on one of the links above that the bottom-edge of the strut fairing in real life is a slightly different shape to that shown on the plan, so I thought I might as well make it closer to the proper shape. And I'll just have to try not to fly it into anything.

But what's worrying me is the crispness of Andy's making and covering...  Grin

I assure you that there are little wrinkles everywhere and some of the decoration is lifting a bit - I just take great care not to photograph the dodgy bits unless there's no alternative. Smiley

Logged
scigs30
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 56
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 518



Ignore
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2017, 02:54:02 PM »

Nice build, she is a great flyer. I did a double Mooney a couple years ago and she flies great.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
Re: Peck-Polymers Andreason BA-4B Build
Logged
Jack Plane
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 6
Online Online

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 322




Ignore
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2017, 03:26:41 PM »

You have the strut positioned right on the wing-rib, but my kit plan shows it slightly inboard of this position, as per Andy's above.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!