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Author Topic: Bristol 72 Racer 30" span (1/10 scale)  (Read 2991 times)
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Bill G
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« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2017, 05:48:34 PM »

"wishbone" gear legs

That is so descriptive - love it!
Yeah I saw someone use it on another site, so I stole it.  Grin  Fits perfectly.  I tend to think more automotive, calling it a control arm assembly.
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« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2017, 10:11:41 PM »

Dry fitted all the hinges in the control surfaces, which is one of those less exciting, gotta get out of the way tasks. One nice thing about the relatively thin SD8040 airfoil, is that even with deep chord ailerons, the relatively small hinge gap set by the Dubro flat pin hinges provides reasonable aileron travel. Aluminum tubing used for the wing bracing cable guides can also be seen in the wing photos. Came across a few small servos used for the ailerons. I bought them at a local swap from a vendor I knew, although I thought they were a bit pricey at around $8. Turns out they're digital servos, and reportedly decent quality also. Note the harness routing in the wing panels, where running the harnessing toward the front of the wing helps with providing forward weight. Every bit counts. The motor is now installed, where the motor mount shims will be some of the few items that will be easily serviceable on this model, once completed.

Performed a weight check with everything conceivable on the scale, weighing 18.5oz. Items still to be added are the dummy engine ducting farings, wing farings/wheel housing farings, covering, and light over painting the Microlite red covering for an opaque appearance. 22oz should still be a reasonable AUW, comparing with models such as a 30" Guillows P47 with a geared 370 bl inrunner, at over 22oz. This subject probably has a bit more wing area, although less desirable aspect ratio. Looking at prop data, I should be able to get over 100W from the Rimfire 28-26-1000 motor, with the planned prop. The motor actually came from the same previously mentioned swap meet, from a nice guy that almost sold it to me for free. The model probably shouldn't go much over 22oz however, for the motor to still be adequate. I did fly a 36oz Rake M1C with the next larger Rimfire motor on 3s with a 12"x6 prop, but that's not exactly recommended either.

Now working on the engine details, with the exhaust holes marked out on the fuselage.  I have a scheme worked out for the engine cooling duct farings inside the nose opening, using sections of thin sheet plastic. The "divider" farings between the cylinders will probably be made from sculpted balsa.
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Re: Bristol 72 Racer 30" span (1/10 scale)
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Re: Bristol 72 Racer 30" span (1/10 scale)
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Bill G
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« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2017, 02:01:33 AM »

Slowly finishing the engine details now, as they will be more difficult to complete, once the wings are soon permanently installed. A balance test (pic 1) showed the CG to be at the planned location. Can't complain with a subject like this, although the aft covering/paint weight and the majority of the wing weight will move the balance rearward. To keep the balance point in the ballpark, 10 grams of lead was added in the forward lower cowling, before installing the engine duct farings. (pics 3 and 4) The engine ducting will also help contribute to forward weight. Before installing the engine duct farings, the pushrods were installed, with 1 per cylinder as a simplification.

The engine duct farings are made from clear sheet sections (1 per clyinder seen in pic 2) with balsa formers located between the cylinders, forming the shape of the ducting. This method is working well and turned out to be easier than I expected to install, with 4sections now in place. The individual farings are glued to the balsa shims, with a slight bend placed at the "tabs" that fit between the cylinders. (pic3) The seams between the farings will not be seen, as there will be a ducting "divider" between each cylinder, which will be centered over the seams. The dividers will probably be sculpted from 1/4" balsa.
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Re: Bristol 72 Racer 30" span (1/10 scale)
Re: Bristol 72 Racer 30" span (1/10 scale)
Re: Bristol 72 Racer 30" span (1/10 scale)
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Bill G
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« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2017, 11:45:40 PM »

Finished the engine details, installing nine individually sculpted and then custom fit ducting fins between the cylinders. They require slow trimming/sanding to size, which isn't the most exciting work. The fins are tapered from their attachment points on the crankcase to the inner cowling, as well sculpting the leading edge. To minimize the wood grain appearance, the 1/4" balsa sheet sculpted fins were primed, sanded, and then painted silver. The silver was first painted on the inner cowl faring, as it would be difficult to get in between the cylinders with a brush, after installing the fins between the cylinders. There are also also two scale vent tubes at the top of the fuselage, where the access door slide latch makes up one of them, with a piece of aluminum tubing glued over it. The second vent is glued into a hole drilled into the access door.

One more major detail area to go, with the wing/wheel housing farings. One more hurdle is now completed, with the wheel bays cut into the wing panels. The plug in wings were priceless for this task. First the inner wing ribs were cut for the wheel clearance. That part was easy, as you could visually line up and mark off the required opening area, with the wheels loosely placed over the axles in the retracted position. Next the bottom portions of the second wing ribs outward were trimmed, for wheel clearance. Those cuts were gradually made, as the wheels were cycled up and down, while slowly moving the wings inward. As planned, the ribs did not need to be fully cut though, although there was a bit less of the ribs remaining than expected. The tops of those ribs were laminated with 1/16" balsa, shaped to match the airfoil.
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Re: Bristol 72 Racer 30" span (1/10 scale)
Re: Bristol 72 Racer 30" span (1/10 scale)
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Re: Bristol 72 Racer 30" span (1/10 scale)
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Konrad
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« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2017, 09:46:37 AM »

Wow, didn't see that coming! That is the wheels retract into the upper fairing!
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« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2017, 09:28:52 PM »

Wow, didn't see that coming! That is the wheels retract into the upper fairing!
I'll have to get more pics up soon.  I have the bottom wing panels faired in (easy part) and am working on the top farings.  Keeping scale proportions for everything forces you to keep the tire clearances between the upper farings at a minimum, like the full scale.  One good thing is that the symmetry between both sides is as good as could possibly be expected.  It's nice to make the same mirrored parts for each side, with mimimal tweaking during installation. I made cardstock templates for the upper faring plates, which require slowly trimming down to size, as in a few thousandths at a time, when you get close.  Everything will be fabricated with balsa.
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« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2017, 12:27:38 AM »

Finished the wing farings. Mostly straightforward work remaining now. I was tempted to sheet over the bottom inner wing panels, although 1/16" would be heavy and thick, while 1/32" would still create a visible edge and would be fragile around the wheel cutouts. Worth the effort to inset plank and shape the wheel cutouts. The upper farings were made from 1/32" sheet, slowly trimming cardstock templates to fit. There's several mm of clearance between the faring framers and the tires, which is more than appears in the photos. The plastic engine vent farings almost touch the tires when fully retracted, which is pretty much scale. The edge of the tire can be seen through the clear vent, in the photo. On the full scale, there appears to be small bumps in those farings, for tire clearance. Directly behind the rear of the vent farings there is now a dab of filler, to form a smooth blend from the fuselage to the wing faring. The last photo was taken directly after installing the plastic vent farings, before blending those spots with a small amount of filler. The small notch at the bottom front of the vents, which protrudes behind the upper part of the opening, is a scale feature.
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Re: Bristol 72 Racer 30" span (1/10 scale)
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Bill G
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« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2017, 12:58:05 AM »

May finally finish this project, since covering is less than exiting and well underway.  One good thing is that the small, odd shaped areas have done a really good job of using up scrap covering efficiently.  As of now the wing covering sheets are cut, with only a few fuselage pieces remaining, and there is literally only a few square inches of scrap, including tiny shreds.  The model is being covered with red Microlite iron-on, where a finish coat of matching red will be sprayed over for an opaque finish.  At this point, a weight check shows 22oz as a good finished target weight.  Balancing has also been checked and should be close, with 10 grams of nose ballast installed before building the dummy radial. 

Pic 1.  Don't miss the opportunity to reduce aft weight, removing unnecessary sheeting from under the headrest faring.  A bit of filler will be used to flare in the base seam, and then covered with covering strips.  The padded headrest is pre-painted and will be added at final assembly.

Pic 2.  Bent wire "U" sections are glued into holes drilled into the fuse formers.  These will serve as attachment points for the wing bracing cables.

Pic 3.  All tail surfaces with the exception of the rudder are covered.  The rudder cone faring will have notches cut, to clear the elevator joiner bar, allowing for maximum rudder travel.  These will be marked and cut after installing the tail feathers.  The fuselage is being covered with overlapping pieces running former to former.  Four identical sheets are used for each section.  Microlite works well for constant curved barrel fuselages, as the excess covering around the edges can be shrunk in, without wrinkling.  You don't want to stretch the pieces, or the tension will tend to pull the relatively thin sheeting flat, ruining the curved fuselage shape.

Pic 4.  A small amount of excess covering was ironed into the slots, for the retractable gear legs.  Paint will be brushed into the areas with bare balsa still showing.  Covering these areas is a pain, as I like covering to be as tight as a coat of paint, with no spots missed with the iron.  The covering was trimmed allowing for about 1/32" of excess, which was ironed down in the the clear vent farings and around all other edges.  I heat a knife blade, used to iron down areas that the iron can't get to.
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Re: Bristol 72 Racer 30" span (1/10 scale)
Re: Bristol 72 Racer 30" span (1/10 scale)
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Bill G
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« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2017, 09:45:23 PM »

Maybe Konrad can talk me into going with a bit more aft CG than my norm.  Might not be a bad thing, as my last maiden with a Sterling P26 seemed to be a bit nose heavy, without any added ballast.

Done again, it would have been tempting to make lighter, non-scale looking tail feathers, although they wouldn't have looked right. There's very little forward moment to add ballast, and this model would have gotten really out of hand, had it not been for the battery, tail servos, and retract servos mounted as far forward as possible. Although the aircraft looks stubby, it does have a reasonable tail moment. I used a reportedly reliable CG calculator, which indicates I will have a static margin of 15%, with the CG located at a hair over 30% chord. That's encouraging if correct, as it seems I can make 30% as it is now, with the additional ballast recently added. The ballast figure increases quickly however, to move forward a mere few percentage points. The calculator assumes a squared off horizontal stab with a continuous elevator, so the span value must be entered to arrive at the actual stab area. Even a mere square inch or two of cheating will indicate an allowed CG notably further aft. This shows the value of an enlarged stab on a subject like this.

Photos 1 and 2 show the notches cut into the rudder cone, for clearance around the elevator joiner bar. The rear fuse former was dug out a bit on either side, just inside of the outer perimeter, to allow for added rudder travel. The additional mm of cone travel translates to several mm of additional travel, at the TE of the rudder.

Photo 3: The prop originally had a flange bushing in the rear. I cut the flange away from the bushing and decked the motor shaft base collar a bit thinner, so that the total depth could be replaced with a ballast disk. You have to get creative to get the most out of your ballast, with a short nose moment.

Pic 4: Wing covering, light over painting, wing cables, and details remaining.
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Re: Bristol 72 Racer 30" span (1/10 scale)
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Konrad
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« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2017, 11:27:34 AM »

Looks great!

A static 15% margin of stability looks a bit much for my style of flying. But, and this is a big but, for scale models I like to start out nose heavy. For the first flights I'd move the CofG forward towards the 28% chord point. (I normally like 30% to33% as my final CofG) The reason I'd start forward is that bulbous fuselages adds a bit of lift which moves the center of lift forward. Most of my Gee Bee like models end up with my CofG at about 28%.

So I think your placement of equipment is fine. But for the first flight I'd add about 14 grams to the nose and take the hit on climbing for the first flight.

I'd like to remind you, that math aside, it takes me about 10 test flights before I think I have a model in trim.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 11:37:37 AM by Konrad » Logged

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« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2017, 11:33:24 PM »

Thanks.  Yeah I really would prefer to start at 28%.  All the gear is as far forward as possible, and it really would be out of hand if the gear wasn't mounted forward.  As of today the model is fully covered/assembled less wing cables, and is at 28%.  As A compromise, I'm planning on masking off the tail feathers and only lightly painting over the fuse, for opaque appearance.  The tail feathers actually look good as they are, so I'll forego adding any paint weight to them.  The obvious problem is that even a mere 2 grams of paint on the aft fuselage will require some ballast to offset.  I'll probably need to add an additional 10 grams of ballast, to offset the planned fuselage paint and decal weight.  The oversized stabilizer on this model is large, which helps with the CG location, but would also add significant paint weight, if painted over.  The photo below lends some proportion to the size of the stabilizer.
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Konrad
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« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2017, 10:12:02 AM »

From here she looks great. I wouldn't paint the fuse. Add decals and fly. If flight tests indicate that she is nose heavy then paint if there are some translucent issues that concern you.

I know you and I differ a bit on this. If I need to make compromise I tend to favor flight performance. But then your models look so much better, scale, than any of mine.

All the best,
Konrad
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Bill G
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« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2017, 04:14:17 AM »

Thanks and I hear you on sacrifices.  The 1/32" sheeting was one of them.  One issue with the thin sheet, is that heavier opaque covering will flatten the barrel fused shape, as it requires some stretching while applying.  One of the reasons for using Microlite, is that you can use thin sheeting without flattening it, when ironing down the covering sections on a barrel shaped fuse.  The Microlite covering sections were seamed on the strong former and keel seams, where the "extra" covering was shrunk out, only from heat. I couldn't get that much shrink out of the heavier, opaque stuff.  I've used heavier stuff on shapes like this and ended up with a series of flat areas, from having to pull and stretch the covering. Of course one of the perils of Microlite is that it's not fully opaque.

The covering overlaps look more noticeable than anything else, as well as the balsa showing through a bit, especially at the nose area where there is also black CF showing through. It doesn't look bad as it is now, but the covering looks a bit more opaque in the photos than it really is. The Rustoleum American Accents paint is the best bomb spray I've found, for coverage with light weight.  When painting over a near matching color Microlite, it is still lighter painted than Econokote and Parklite.  
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« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2017, 12:03:23 AM »

The model over painting added little weight, as the tail feathers were also not painted, and the rear fuse was lightly painted to keep from adding aft weight.  The model is a bit heavier than I wanted at 23-1/4oz AUW, but not bad considering what it is. You really pay in ballast for CG percentage points, and I decided around 28% would probably be wiser to start at, than 30%, where I could easily have shaved off 1/2oz of ballast. Power wise, I didn't check the actual watts, but I pretty much know the figure, from motor-prop data. With the large nose losses, I'm actually more concerned with if it "feels" adequate, which I believe it does. The prop is an Eflite 9.5x7.5. Years ago, people flew 30" span 22oz Jim Ryan warbirds with 6v DD speed 400 motors on 7 NiCd cells, with power to spare. I have a 22+oz 30" Guillow's P47 with a geared 370BL, with adequate power and not propped as heavily as it could be. The prop and spinner spin at full power with no vibration. I had previously tested them, but you're always worried about Murphy showing up at the last minute with a setup like this, with a large spinner and long shaft. The spinner back has a hexagon index, which indexes with the prop nut, allowing for placement options relative to the prop, as well as keeping it from slipping relative to the prop. The spinner is held in place with a nylock nut, to ensure it stays on the prop shaft.

A few finishing details below are the clear plastic mask template, used for brush painting the exhaust stubs. The exhaust stubs were installed before painting the model red, as I didn't want glue showing. They were painted black, after painting the model. The "Bristol" paper graphics were first painted with several coats of white paint. They were tacked onto a back taped stick and then sprayed with spray glue, before installation. A few light pencil marks were placed on the fuse, for alignment with a few key spots on the graphics, as you only get one shot placing them where you want them. A small area between the "B" and the "r" was bridged with a strip of clear tape, to hold the graphics together. The clear tape strips were removed, after gluing the graphics to the model. I cut out a number of tiny commas for the Bristol graphics with decal material, to get enough of them that were deemed acceptable. All of the other graphics were hand cut from white decal material.
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Re: Bristol 72 Racer 30" span (1/10 scale)
Re: Bristol 72 Racer 30" span (1/10 scale)
Re: Bristol 72 Racer 30" span (1/10 scale)
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« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2017, 05:07:17 AM »

What a wild looking machine! Very nice finish and the Bristol graphic is well worth the effort .

John
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« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2017, 10:23:07 AM »

You sure don't pick the easy, usual stuff!

Do I understand correctly that there is no collector ring? That the exhaust pipes just penetrate the cowl.
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« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2017, 12:55:50 AM »

Thanks for the comments.  The "Bristol" graphics were definitely well worth the effort.  They were the most difficult I've cut yet, with a close second being the Curtiss graphics hand cut for the Curtiss America.  The exhaust stubs are glued just into the fuselage ring.  That was one benefit of the sheetmetal ducting farings (fabricated with sheet plastic) that hide the cylinder heads and exhaust pipes from view, inside the cowl opening.  
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« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2017, 09:58:56 PM »

Bill, is there anything new with this, like a flight report?
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« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2017, 10:13:25 PM »

One of these days I'll get around to it.  Started on a small EDF F8 Meteor lately, and finally flew the Guillow's B25.  B25 has a bit or motor mismatch, presumably wind, but flies better than expected.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TUVT7LJ9xk
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Konrad
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« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2017, 10:34:07 PM »

Yikes those motors are way off.

With HK I've had motors with more than 15% difference in their electrical constants for motors that claim to be the same.
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« Reply #45 on: September 16, 2017, 11:32:02 AM »

Bill,
Summer is coming to and end, it is after Labor Day here in the USA.
I'm hoping you have found time to test fly this racer, and that the test flight was a success.

All the best,
Konrad
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« Reply #46 on: September 16, 2017, 11:35:13 PM »

Haven't braved it yet, but finished and flew a small Gloster Meteor recently.  Windy day and just managed to level out for landing with no damage.  The model uses 12mm inrunners with a single ESC, so once throttled down they won't always sync on startup, unless a base idle is set.  Didn't set idle and shut down to glide in, and a gust came up on landing making it a challenge, as it would have stalled if I didn't maintain a steep descent.  Usually they glide forever at the 8oz weight, with this one being 7.9oz AUW.
Been on a jet building kick for a while now, starting on a TU 104 airliner.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=EKlMwwgkG80
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Konrad
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« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2017, 04:48:59 PM »

Wow, that looks to have a lot of performance along with some noise. The 2 seconds of landing did look brutal!
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« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2017, 03:05:34 PM »

It leveled out with no damage at the last second.  The taller grass/weeds certainly helped.  Odd thing with flying these lighter models is that they glide forever, but a sudden gust like what happened there, will stop it.  What wasn't seen in the video was a complete standstill stop only about 30 feet away. With the throttle already cut and the 2 motors on 1 ESC issue, I didn't want to risk a one motor restart.  Of course I could have set a switch mix for base idle.  The only option is to dive, to prevent a deep stall.  I've seen more landings where people try to stay level at too low of a speed, also with a headwind, that end up in disastrous stalls.  They would have been better off possibly damaging the LG, versus trashing the entire model. Flew a lighter 6.5oz Lear 23 with the GP fans a few days ago.  Probably about 5-10mph winds, which is about tops for flying it, without being blown around to the point where its less than enjoyable flying. 
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« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2017, 10:54:32 PM »

Bill,
I'm always astonished by the projects you tackle. And I'm equally flabbergasted at the performance you extract form these projects.

Konrad
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