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Author Topic: ED BEE MARK 1  (Read 241 times)
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scrowoash
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« on: April 21, 2017, 03:54:11 AM »

Hi Everyone,

I am not sure if this is the right place to ask this:
I have a ED BEE MK1 that i want to use in a 1/2A controline all sheet plane. This engine runs but it has hard starting( i used an electric starter). i am concerned that having a screw-in backplate which also accepts the intake tube, there is a possibiity of the intake timing being changed from dis-assembly. Does anybody happen to know the intake timing specs? I read the BEE MK 2 has increased power due to a longer intake period. Is there an advantage to utilising this period on the MK1?

Looking forward to any advice.

Regards

Woody.
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billdennis747
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« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2017, 05:35:36 AM »

The ED Bee 1 is very easy-starting and shouldn't need an electric starter. It is slightly more powerful than a Mills 75. I suspect there may be something wrong with it (worn/no compression?) or fuel. I don't think there is any possiblity of the induction timing being wrong. The intake pipe will be at 1 o'clock seen from the rear.
Do you have diesel experience? If not, it can take some acquiring, but be very careful with an electric starter.
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scrowoash
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« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2017, 06:07:55 AM »

I do not have a lot of diesel experience. What i found is that if i flick it fast, it will fire. does not start easily like the Mills or the ED Comp Special. What prop should i start with? I am using starter fluid, kerosene and castor oil. Come to think of it, maybe the ether content is too low. Maybe i should up the ether to 40-45%?
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DavidJP
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« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2017, 06:42:24 AM »

I agree with what Bill has said. 

Please be very careful with the electric starter on any of these small engines as you could easily break something.  My guess is that given the engine is quite old the liner and piston may well be worn and the firing is as a result of the build up of fuel in the combustion chamber.  Is there any sign of leaking around the seal of the back plate? If you turn it over by hand and hold it at top dead centre does it hold or is there leaking down the side of the piston? You can sometimes see bubbles if there is fuel present.
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billdennis747
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« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2017, 08:03:55 AM »

I know very little about starter fluid. I gather it can be anything from ether to all sorts of stuff. I suspect fuel is your problem and you need to get proper ether or proper fuel. Three equal parts will work
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Footloose
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« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2017, 03:48:19 PM »

Scrowash

What you really need is a PAW 149, it's difficult to overpower a control line model and it's always better to have too much rather than too little. The PAWs are easy to start and very strong and better still I have a few of them and I would be only too happy to send you one free of charge, gratis and post free in the spirit of this hobby.
If you send me a PM with an address I will send it to you, I may even have a spare 7x6 prop as well.

Bert
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ffkiwi
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« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2017, 01:00:16 AM »

Hi Everyone,

I am not sure if this is the right place to ask this:
I have a ED BEE MK1 that i want to use in a 1/2A controline all sheet plane. This engine runs but it has hard starting( i used an electric starter). i am concerned that having a screw-in backplate which also accepts the intake tube, there is a possibiity of the intake timing being changed from dis-assembly. Does anybody happen to know the intake timing specs? I read the BEE MK 2 has increased power due to a longer intake period. Is there an advantage to utilising this period on the MK1?

Looking forward to any advice.

Regards

Woody.

Well apart from sharing the name there is not a lot in common between the Mk1 and Mk2 ED Bees-porting is quite different-virtually everything is different-except probably the disc-which seems to be the same in both-so forget that aspect of the timing. Mk1 Bees did not wear well-so if it is hard to start you're pretty much stuck with it. Take note of the warnings regarding electric starters-though the Bee is a lot more solid than many other small diesels.....steel conrod for a start....which means that if you get it badly wrong you're likely to break the gudgeon or crankpin rather than bend the rod as usually happens. Personally you could hardly have picked a worse offering to power a CL model with-they were pretty gutless (so were the Mk2s-until the very last model variant!)-about the same power as a DC Merlin of 3/4 the size. That being said you can still use it for your stated purpose-but you'll have to a) keep the model light, and b) possibly fly on shorter lines than is comfortable. In any case Footloose has made you an extraordinarily generous offer-in your position I'd accept it gratefully. Now it is possible to misassemble the Mk1 ED Bee (and the 1.5cc Hornet) and mess up the induction timing-this occurs when the backplate is screwed home after being removed-or even just partially undone-and the crankpin seats in the induction slot (which is bean shaped-and on exactly the same radius from the central pivot pin as the drive hole in the disc)-this is readily detected though by removing the induction tube-and if the engine is mistimed the rod and bigend will be visible in the induction cutout. This is one of the foible of the Mk1-and there's not a lot you can do about it, except keeping on unscrewing and re-screwing in the backplate until the crankpin seats in the correct hole in the disc.

 The Mk1 Bee should turn a 7x6 OK for C/L use-though a 7x5 would be a lighter load-and allow it to get closer to its peak. For FF (which is probably the use it is better suited for) an 8x3 or 8x4 is about right. Bill Dennis has raised some issues about starter fluid that are quite valid-there are many brands-and many formulations-all of them to my knowledge contain SOME ether-but 'some' can be as little as 20%-which makes them totally useless for a source of ether for diesel fuel. The best ones are 80% or more ether-and even here you need to factor in the other components as part of your fuel mix ie-the '20% not ether' is factored into your final fuel mixture as part of the kerosene component so you end up with the appropriate mixing ratios to give at least 30% ether in your final fuel mixture. Experience also indicates that the highest ether blend starter fluids are used in cold climate areas-and those for use in tropical areas are at the low end of the scale 20-25% ether content.....so given where you are -i'd be reading the contents label or spec sheet very carefully to ensure I wasn't purchasing a useless (for your purposes) product.

 ChrisM
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PS and before you ask-there is NO alternative to diethyl ether for this purpose-there is no other chemical compound that can be used as a substitute.
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OZPAF
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« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2017, 03:54:58 AM »

Actually I learnt to fly CL using a ED Bee Mk1 in an own designed model and if I remember correctly on 35' lines of light laystrate.

I still have the motor - it is around 60yrs old now and still starts easily and runs well. I used a 7x6 prop and it was powerful enough to fly around 20" WS models. It now resides in a semi scale own design Camel biplane of around 20" Ws and 12-14oz weight

If you are having that much trouble starting it then I agree with the very good advice you have been given about the ether content of your fuel and it will be necessary anyway to find a source of ether to take advantage of the generous offer of a PAW 1.49.

Good luck .

John
 





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Re: ED BEE MARK 1
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ffkiwi
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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2017, 04:39:33 AM »

Not disputing that John-but the chances are that the original poster has a worn engine and less than optimal fuel blend. For scrowoash-there is virtually no difference in power between the Mk1 and Mk2 versions of the Bee-it produces a little bit over 0.06BHP -as Bill Dennis noted-just a little more than a Mills 75 for a lot more weight and bulk! [0.061BHP for the Mk1, 0.064BHP for the Mk2] The Mk2 went through at least 3 distinct sub variants from 1955-1963...and the very last version the 1960/61 model had extensive porting changes by Gordon Cornell the new ED engine designer-and produced nearly double the power of the earlier version-0.11 @ 15,000rpm-so very respectable by 1cc diesel standards [see:      http://sceptreflight.net/Model%20Engine%20Tests/ED%20Bee%20Series%201960-61.html     for a test of this version]    But a PAW 149 will leave it in the dust-giving you much more in the way of options for models after you've passed the trainer stage-and the PAW 149 will fly a stunter quite nicely on 45 ft lines-or a 1/2A Combat model on whatever line length your local rules allow.
   Another thought that occurs regarding starter fluid-[I have no need to use it as I have suitable access to ether] the examples I have seen [often in the MSDS data]-quote a range of ether contents (note I'm referring to a single brand here-not the range of different branded products) ditto for other components. This means that there can be significant can-to-can-or batch-to-batch variations-but still within the manufacturers' specifications. When trying to make up accurate fuel mixes-the last thing you need is variable %s in your starting materials! The take home message should be that starting fluids are an option of last resort as a source of ether-and if you can obtain ether any alternative way-then it is preferable to do this. For a lot of diesel users, due to legal or local restrictions on sale, starting fluid is often the only option.

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'
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OZPAF
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« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2017, 07:33:07 PM »

Quote
Not disputing that John-but the chances are that the original poster has a worn engine and less than optimal fuel blend. For scrowoash-there is virtually no difference in power between the Mk1 and Mk2 versions of the Bee-it produces a little bit over 0.06BHP

No worries Chris - I agree. I just provided my experience for what it was worth and a bit of interest.

John
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