Logo
Builders' Plan Gallery  |  Hip Pocket Web Site  |  Contact Forum Admin  |  Contact Global Moderator
December 18, 2017, 05:03:11 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with email, password and session length
 
Home Help Search Login Register
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: In the UK - HMG dopes  (Read 980 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
billdennis747
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 36
Online Online

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 2,754

Topic starter


Ignore
« on: July 25, 2017, 11:57:20 AM »

I have used HMG dopes for 50 years, including their non-shrinking. I just asked them if their formulation has changed and they said no. This despite it smelling very different and taking two days to dry and tighten up after each coat. And being sticky. I just tried an alternative (Flite Hook) and that's fine. Does anyone else have a similar experience? Reminds me of Humbrol red enamel which takes weeks to dry but is supposedly unchanged.
Logged
malc
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 12
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 193



Ignore
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2017, 12:06:30 PM »

Hmm, interesting.  I bought some 'cellulose thinners' last year and it did not thin the dope at all. Apparently the ingredient we need to thin dope is now replaced with something else.  I was lucky and found half a gallon of old stock cellulose thinners which works with some old flitehook dope I have.

Talking to the guys on the trade stand that only sold dope and thinners at Old Warden last year, they confirmed the recipes for dope and thinners have been changing, unfortunately I can't remember the name of the active ingredient we need...
But the good news is they have the right stuff!

Malc.
Logged
vintagemike
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 2
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 64



Ignore
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2017, 01:22:47 PM »

The two main ingredients are Xylene and Toluene, both quite nasty substances, these ingredients have been under review for a number of years and have been substituted by other less harmfull things. Did you also know that water is also an ingredient of cellulose thinners? and depending on the grade of thinners how much water. Four grades, 1 best quality, self explanitary. 2 standard thinners, has a quantity of water and other dilutants in it, 3 reclaimed, has some new in it but mostly rehashed, and lastly gunwash, this is only suitable for cleaning sprayguns (and even then I would rinse afterwards with something better quality) and is mostly reclaimed and water. NEVER use this to thin any paint or laquer!!!!!! Hope this helps 
Logged
billdennis747
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 36
Online Online

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 2,754

Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2017, 02:29:32 PM »

I didn't know that. The thinners I use is just called anti bloom and I assumed it would be good quality. I need to talk to my supplier! I still don't understand why HMG would tell me it has been unchanged for decades when it plainly isn't.
Logged
vintagemike
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 2
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 64



Ignore
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2017, 03:16:14 PM »

Paint stripper is exactly the same, suppliers tell you its unchanged, you try stripping a good few coats of paint with it!!!!
Logged
capnbob
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 1
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 34



Ignore
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2017, 02:51:54 PM »

hello Bill . I thought I was cracking up after50+ years of modelling. I agree with everything you say, the smell and properties are quite different although interestingly I bought a tin of what was alleged to be banana oil a while ago and it smelt and behaved like no banana oil I have come across before but the new dope formulation has a somewhat similar smell to this mock banana. Other readers take note, if you buy cellulose thinners from a car factor you MUST use anti bloom, as Bill says. Lets hope young John keeps the business going a while longer. TTFN
Logged
DavidJP
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 22
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 2,104




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2017, 04:34:14 PM »

Some while ago - possibly last year - I heard a conversation where the quality of cellulose paints was being discussed (in the context of classic cars) and it was claimed that these paints were under review.  I asked about dope and was told that it could disappear off the market in a short space of time. One or two enquiries to a couple of suppliers via the internet did not sound encouraging either. 

Dope does seem to have a limited shelf life although I have had some which is still OK after a few years but again this seems another interference with a way of life.  Probably because if my age - recollections of Chelsea Pensioners who had smoked Capstan full strength for 70 years and had been gassed in the trenches but were pretty fit (could down a few pints of Guinness with no apparent effects) and other old fellas who had been exposed to various hazardous aledgedly toxic things who seemed hale and hearty leaves me a bit suspicious.  And then Fred Dibna who defied all H&S rules (yes I know he succumbed to the big C).  And so it goes on. 

Thanks those social minded people who I am sure mean well but really can we make own own choice occasionally. Like smokers drinkers and those who take drugs? I am not you see a fan of the nanny society.
Logged
Big G
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 1
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 81



Ignore
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2017, 03:48:14 AM »

Building as I do CL stunters in the traditional way, I do use quite a lot of dope and thinner. The dope I've used for years is Sky-Tech from Skycraft Ltd, Lincolnshire (google them for full details, product- and price-lists, etc). This is expensive, but MUCH cheaper than buying small tins of dope from the model shop. Thinners I get from the local car-spares shop. Two years back I bought a gallon of thinners and it was a deep orange colour! Back it went, and they changed it for another (more expensive) brand which was clear and worked fine.

It's interesting to note that these days it is rare to see the word 'cellulose' on the labels of paint, rattle-can, thinners, etc. This is because, in the true sense of the word, it is no longer 'cellulose', courtesy of our tribe of H&S nannies. However, if you look around, there are companies who still sell what is claimed to be genuine cellulose 'coach' paint, usually for vintage car restoration. My all-time favourite brushing paint for models was ICI Brushing Belco, long since disappeared and much missed. As is the old and genuine cellulose Dupli-Color rattle-can paint, which was good stuff. I currently use a rattle-can paint called Car-Plan, which isn't bad although it doesn't have the same depth of finish as Dupli-Color, so more is needed, but like Dupli-Color it's proof against diesel fuel!

I've not used HMG products for years, so can't comment on what's been said about them on this thread, but I'd suggest contacting HMG for their side of the story. Recently I built a small rubber-powered Jodel, and decided I would use non-shrink dope. Fortunately, a good friend let me have some, and it smelled like no dope I ever used. I have a feeling it may have been HMG. I used it without any problem, though.

Nothing stays the same for ever....

G
Logged
Jack Plane
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 15
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 774




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2017, 04:47:08 AM »

It's all BS.  I've been using vapour filters on my dust-mask base-unit in the workshop for years.  This sort of cheap and reliable PPE utterly neutralises the vapours from dope and cellulose thinners even in my small modelling workspace, but the I suppose that the regulations have been tightened - in a bum covering excercise - to protect casual un-protected users as well perhaps as the workforce employed in manufacturing the stuff?
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: In the UK - HMG dopes
Re: In the UK - HMG dopes
Logged
Andrew Darby
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 40
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,886




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2017, 07:58:50 AM »

I only really use banana oil, this dries within half an hour or so to the touch, although I leave it a lot longer.  It doesn't really shrink at all.

I only use dope to seal and I only build small models, generally attaching the tissue with non smelly glue sick and PVA.  I dope in the spare bedroom with the windows wide open and the door shut and I vacate for that first half hour too.  My wife said I would be out on my ear if the smell ever gets into the kids bedrooms even in the day time (and rightly so), and I take her threat seriously, and she checks too!  Point being it is always reasonably warm and dry where I dope, are you in the garage/shed Bill?  This may have had an adverse affect due to temperature/humidity

Just an aside I have recently noticed (probably as a result of me nagging them!) that VMC are now selling the HMG dopes and thinners.  The post is pricey as it is courier, but if you have other bits to order it the same time it could be worth it if you can't get it anywhere else... I only mention this as someone was asking where I got mine on another thread (whom and what thread I can't recall!)

Andrew

Logged

Hogwash I tell thee!
Slow.Lizzard
Copper Member
**

Kudos: 0
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 5




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2017, 03:23:45 PM »

Hi Chaps,

Please would you know about other alternative source of high quality dope in UK besides Flite Hook. My difficulty is that they do not support electronic payment.

The Skycraft smallest package is 2.5l - too much for me as I'm beginner.

Many thanks.
Logged
Jack Plane
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 15
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 774




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2017, 04:23:54 PM »

Just pay Flitehook by cheque, in an envelope with a stamp, and thank the big bird in the sky that they're still in business!
Logged
Big G
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 1
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 81



Ignore
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2017, 07:24:16 PM »

A little bird tells me that Flitehook dope is actually Skycraft.....can't see what the difficulty is in writing out a cheque. They deliver first, then you pays 'em.

G
Logged
Andrew Darby
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 40
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,886




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2017, 02:16:29 AM »

I have used Flitehook, and just sent a cheque, there was no problem.

Andrew
Logged

Hogwash I tell thee!
DavidJP
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 22
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 2,104




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2017, 08:35:08 AM »

I have been under the impression that Flitehook cannot send dope through the post.  Can they in fact?  The last I bought at a “show” was in a wine bottle.
Logged
Big G
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 1
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 81



Ignore
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2017, 10:35:00 AM »

I've just checked their website, and you're quite correct, David - they don't send fuel, dope or thinners through the post. Skycraft use a courier - the more you buy, the less you pay per gallon!

G
Logged
DavidJP
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 22
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 2,104




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2017, 12:54:57 PM »

Thanks.
Logged
Pit
Palladium Member
********

Kudos: 124
Offline Offline

Germany Germany

Posts: 5,425


aka staubkorb


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2017, 01:09:32 PM »

I have received dope/banana oil from GB thru the mail in the past - altho there was a notice that it is verboten.  I don't remember who the "guilty" party was without going thru invoices.  You might send the companies an email asking for assistance - they'll likely find a way...
Logged

A Dedicated Convert to:
WWWoFF (Wonderfull Wacky World of Free Flight)

Comparing Spammers to a pile of organic waste is an insult to the organic waste!
DavidJP
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 22
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 2,104




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2017, 03:35:44 PM »

Hmmmmm.... not so sure they “will find a way” because if sent illegally now the consequences are apparently severe and I know that the Royal Mail can check contents.  Lipo batteries for example were a problem but some of the larger suppliers have resolved the matter with Royal Mail.  The cause of this is the terrorist threat.  As I said John Hook is not prepared to post dope etc. (wisely I think) so really it is almost certainly no go.  Fortunately Skycraft is not far from me so I can collect but having it couriered (2.5l) is probably the best method but not outside the UK it seems.

Just another challenge then for us chaps to meet and overcome!
Logged
Slow.Lizzard
Copper Member
**

Kudos: 0
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 5




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2017, 04:28:33 PM »

Thanks guys.

My bank can't issue a checque book to my account as it is "green" i.e.paperless. I would need to do some changes which I would rather prefer to avoid.

That's why I'm trying to find a source which support electronic payments.

I'll contact John Hook directly to find some solution.

Many thanks.
Logged
DavidJP
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 22
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 2,104




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2017, 05:12:38 PM »

I am pretty sure that John will not be able to post dope to you unless something has changed quite recently.  Even if he can post it it will have to be in cans I would think which would make the cost higher and for a start.  I also looked recently at the Royal Mail website and they set out the restrictions on paints and solvents etc.

Are there no other aeromodellers locally with whom you might buy a can and divide it up?  The saving is worthwhile as no doubt you are aware.

Do keep us updated though because if Post is an option I think a number might be pleased!  Good luck.
Logged
Jack Plane
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 15
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 774




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2017, 05:22:56 PM »

Slow.Lizzard, if you don't have a local model shop in your area, then its worth finding out about indoor FF meetings within striking distance of home.  You'll learn huge amounts just by watching and chatting of course - and you might find someone who can help supply you.

See:  https://www.bmfa.org/Contests-Events/Contest-and-Event-Calendar

Jon

PS You're not stuck down in SW Cornwall are you?!  Shocked
Logged
Andrew Darby
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 40
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,886




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2017, 05:40:47 PM »

Or just refer to post number 9?

https://www.vintagemodelcompany.com/dopes.html

Andrew
Logged

Hogwash I tell thee!
cvasecuk
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 2
Online Online

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 114



Ignore
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2017, 05:47:39 AM »

And what's wrong with SW Cornwall???
Ron (Redruth)
Logged
Jack Plane
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 15
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 774




Ignore
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2017, 05:57:28 AM »

Nothing wrong with Cornwall at all!  Was just teasing out a weak (and probably entirely irrelevant pun) on Slow.Lizzard's username and his lack of local model shopping facilities.

I'll stop digging my own hole now!

 Wink
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!