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Author Topic: Veron Hawker Fury 1  (Read 608 times)
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RalphS
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« on: August 01, 2017, 03:40:28 PM »

I have started a slightly modified version for r/c.  Using some nice wood and mylar covering it shouldn't be too heavy.  (My KK Auster Arrow - rubber powered weighs 20g without rubber and I hope for something similar.)  I have a Parkzone P51 motor and 2 servo Rx/esc set of radio gear that I hope to use.  I fly a Parkzone Su 26(?) outdoors - when it is calm and don't want quite the aerobatic performance from the Fury. Has anyone done this or similar combo? 

I see that the mid winged Su 26 doesn't have any side or downthrust.  Any views on this and any other points before I get too committed.

Looking forward for comments. 
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daveh
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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2017, 03:50:21 PM »

Ralph,

I've made several models using the Parkzone P51 motor with Spektrum receivers and Hyperion 240 mAh batteries. They range from a Frog Tomtit, Frog Goblin, KK Eaglet and 125% AM New Cabin Duration to a scale 17" span Sopwith Tabloid and I'm currently doing a 24" span DH Puss Moth. On all of them I've gone for a typical 2 degrees right and downthrust, which seems to work fine. They all weigh between about 65 to 85 grams. I also built a 25" span Hawker Hart, which does have a more powerful 180 size outrunner, and built it with right thrust but no downthrust and test flights have shown that it needs some.

Hope this helps somewhat.

Dave
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RalphS
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2017, 06:20:17 AM »

Dave,    thanks for reply.  I am hoping to use a Rx/ESC/integral 2 servo set up with single cell lipo as used in the Parkzone models.  Hopefully this will be okay for indoors and zero wind outdoor conditions.  The Veron Fury design will be modified a bit to improve the scale effect and to allow the radio set up to be integrated.  Had a nagging thought last night - if I cover the model with silver mylar, will that blank the radio signal?  Need to do some trials I think.

The fuselage is part done.  Just have to decide whether to leave it square as Phil Smith's original or give it that lovely pear shape.  The undercarriage legs are wrongly angled, each wing panel (as drawn) has different dimensions, the tailplane is the wrong shape, the radiator box is the wrong size. Apart from that the design looks good.  I will try to post some pictures as I progress.

Ralph

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daveh
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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2017, 05:11:45 PM »

Ralph,

It sounds like you are using the same setup that I have on the models I've described and they can cope outdoors in about 10 - 12 knot winds OK - just don't let the model get downwind too much as the penetration isn't startlingly good to say the least. I once flew one of mine at OW in quite windy conditions and coming back into wind it took nearly three minutes to travel about 250 yards. Makes landing a doddle though as the groundspeed is almost zero! The only difference from the Parkzone setup I have made is to use a 240 mAh battery.

As far as the build is concerned, I'd be inclined to correct the errors you've identified in the plan unless you're making it as a homage to the Veron original.

Dave
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RalphS
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« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2017, 04:19:14 PM »

It is some time since I started this thread. I have done some more work and can at last show some progress.
I came across an old 'Prosper' thread of the same model that seems to have petered out.(I was hoping to
see a lot more of Stephen's techniques in case I could use a few of them. What happened Stephen?)

I decided to carry on with the basic Veron design as this is not a contest model but a few changes make
it a bit more scale like and allow the radio and motor to be fitted.  I happened to look at the box and
the price sticker on the end gives an indication of how long it has been stored away in a drawer.

As I want it covered in silver mylar I made a mylar covered box with the rx inside and performed a satisfactory
range check. 

All KK and Veron biplanes use cabanes and undercarriage  made from piano wire and be tied on with thread.
As I want to finish most of the parts before they are assembled this would cause problems and I don't really
like wire bending and binding bits on with thread. So, for the cabane I first made card templates to prove the fit and
then made cores from credit card plastic with 1/32" balsa glued to both sides.  This made it much easier for me to get nice sharp
straight edges when sanded to section and it is just one piece each side. I put keys on the ends of the cabane to engage
in slots on wing centre section and the fuselage.  They will eventually be glued in place after painting.
I used the same technique for the interplane struts.  This time I used 10 thou acetate sheet as the core.
Like the cabane the "N" is all one piece and it will be more accurate than three pieces of balsa stuck together.  The Fury
has a lot of stagger and the upper and lower wings have different dihedral angles.  The struts also
have considerable lean.  I couldn't be bothered to crank up the CAD program and hand drew out the true lengths
the old way.  I was impressed to see that I could remember how to do it after about 65 years!  The fit looks ok.

Just a few more bits to make.
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Veron Hawker Fury 1
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RalphS
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« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2017, 04:20:36 PM »

A few more pics.
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RalphS
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« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2017, 04:23:04 PM »

And yet more pics.
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2017, 03:36:31 AM »

92p!  Do they have any left?

I rather like the laminated strut idea, Ralph - accurate and plenty stiff enough.

Smiley
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Snaky Stringer
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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2017, 07:29:18 AM »

I wonder if I still have the box. I have the plan and some rather tattered printed wood. I think it probably cost more than a quid, though. That one must date from the 'seventies, I suppose.
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Snaky Stringer
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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2017, 09:19:46 AM »

Yes. I have still got the box but it has no price on it. It probably dates from the late 'eighties. A search through old Aeromodellers should provide a guide price. I wonder what the price then equates to now? You could have a reasonably good snack for a quid in those days. Or is my memory playing tricks on me?
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Bill G
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« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2017, 05:59:51 PM »

Good use of thin clear sheet plastic. Under utilized material. I quit using light ply for micro control horns some time ago, also using thin sheet for lamination reinforcement in some places, as it's lighter and there's less stress concentration at the edges, versus adding a piece of thin ply. Glues well with a drop of thin CA also.  Been useful for twin tail linkages, without unsightly v-bend adjustment. Locate the control horn holes on the sheet plastic as close as possible to match the linkage wire bends, and then use the horn's insertion depth into the wood to precisely set the rudders parallel. Makes it easier when you only have to cut a slit for the sheet plastic to insert into, versus a slot for something thicker. 
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RalphS
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« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2017, 05:26:29 AM »

 Been useful for twin tail linkages, without unsightly v-bend adjustment. Locate the control horn holes on the sheet plastic as close as possible to match the linkage wire bends, and then use the horn's insertion depth into the wood to precisely set the rudders parallel. Makes it easier when you only have to cut a slit for the sheet plastic to insert into, versus a slot for something thicker. 

Bill  -  nice to know that other people use this material in the same way as I am now doing.  I don't quite get the twin tail linkage idea.  A photo would be appreciated in case I do a twin tail model. I used 2 coats of very thin contact adhesive to laminate mine but glad to know that CA will work when the keys (or lugs) are fitted into the slits.  I was also thinking of using the material for the control horns.  Thanks for the tip.

Ralph
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RalphS
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« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2017, 02:29:40 PM »

92p!  Do they have any left?

Sorry Jon - Looks like raging inflation. Angry
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Re: Veron Hawker Fury 1
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2017, 02:45:26 PM »

  Cheesy
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Bill G
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« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2017, 01:57:43 AM »

Been useful for twin tail linkages, without unsightly v-bend adjustment. Locate the control horn holes on the sheet plastic as close as possible to match the linkage wire bends, and then use the horn's insertion depth into the wood to precisely set the rudders parallel. Makes it easier when you only have to cut a slit for the sheet plastic to insert into, versus a slot for something thicker.  

Bill  -  nice to know that other people use this material in the same way as I am now doing.  I don't quite get the twin tail linkage idea.  A photo would be appreciated in case I do a twin tail model. I used 2 coats of very thin contact adhesive to laminate mine but glad to know that CA will work when the keys (or lugs) are fitted into the slits.  I was also thinking of using the material for the control horns.  Thanks for the tip.

Ralph
Here's the rudder bellcrank operated linkage for the Guillow's B25 that uses sheet plastic control horns.  The bends on the pushrod ends were placed as close as possible to the ideal placement based on the location of the control horn holes, and the insertion depth of the control horns was adjusted to set the rudders parallel.  Obviously the bends need to be placed as close to perfect as possible for ideal geometry, and so that the control horns have adequate insertion depth into the balsa.  

Flew earlier this past summer, using an aileron/rudder mix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TUVT7LJ9xk
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Veron Hawker Fury 1
Re: Veron Hawker Fury 1
Re: Veron Hawker Fury 1
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RalphS
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« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2017, 05:21:59 AM »

Here's the rudder bellcrank operated linkage for the Guillow's B25 that uses sheet plastic control horns.

Thanks Bill.  Got the idea now.  I have mocked up the acetate sheet horn and it will be the material I will use on the Fury.  Nice B25.

Ralph
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