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Author Topic: Combat Kitten by Top Flite w electric conversion  (Read 597 times)
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bgrove
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« on: September 05, 2017, 12:55:31 PM »

I found this kit while cleaning up my work space after my last build, the Das Splat.  I had only built one of the planes about 20+ years ago so I was pleased to find everything nicely put away and ready to build the second plane.

First, wow.  Dye Crushed parts!!!  What a treat  Smiley  I've been building just from plans and 3-view drawing since I got back into modeling and this sure makes things go faster.

Although I do have an .049 that is still in good shape, I'm going to convert this to electric.  I'm thinking I will use my micro receiver instead of a motor timer and I will then have throttle control via my transmitter.  My launch buddy, aka my son, will be able to control that as I frantically yell commands.  And visa versa of course.  I'm think a Park 180 or 250?  I have a park 450 but I think that would be way to much motor.  It will also be nice being able to stop when you want to instead of hoping the fuel runs out soon like with the .049.  I do recall getting quite dizzy the last time I tried flying these and I'm a lot older now!!

So I jumped it.  This will build quick and be a lot of fun.

Brad
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Starduster
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« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2017, 02:31:33 PM »

With the Park 250 it would, at best, be a powered glide to the ground. I'd go with the 450. You have a throttle....
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bgrove
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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2017, 04:11:55 PM »

Thanks Starduster.  I'll see how the weight distribution works out.  I might need a new motor, my 450 is long vs. some I've seen that are flatter.

The build is coming along.  I'm looking at and stealing ideas from the Scram build.
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bgrove
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« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2017, 03:02:55 PM »

Starduster:  the Park 250 arrived yesterday (I ordered it a week or so ago) and yes, I seems really small :-)  but the 450 seems huge.  I will probably end up buying additional motor options to try.

Gorilla glue is weird, but fun :-)  I used it to mount the firewall.
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NeilH
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« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2017, 07:55:29 PM »

You might look into the Cobra 2203/28 from Innov8tive Designs.  It's designed for E36 freeflights and seems to be similar to a strong .049.  Also very light.

Neil
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« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2017, 01:58:18 PM »

Neil:  thanks for the information.  That's a pretty motor!!  I'm sure I'll end up picking one up in the near future. 

I got the bell crank and leads sorted out and I'm figuring out my plan for the battery/ESC and micro receiver installation.  I'm thinking a couple of hatches in the center top area of the wing will give the space and access I need.

The tail booms, elevator and motor mount are being painting now as well.
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bgrove
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« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2017, 02:38:15 PM »

I had spray paint failure!!  I was lazy and just grabbed some older spray paint I had for automotive/BBQ/Fireplace use - it was just black - well, after 3 days it was still tacky.  So I sanded it off and have repainted it with fresh black.  It should be good to go this weekend.

I'm also working at closing up the wing center.  I'm using a 1/32 ply hatch on the entire outward top of the wing.  This should allow easy access and installation of the battery, ESC and micro receiver.  I'm not spending too much time making this a 'refined' build.  I intend to fly and crash the plane (if you aren't crashing, you aren't pushing yourself hard enough!).

I do have a couple of motors and ESC's on order with Head's Up RC.  I was checking yesterday for possible delivery dates and realized they are in Florida.  I assume my order will be delayed indefinitely until things get back to normal.  I hope that they are OK and my thoughts go out to everyone in Florida or affected by Hurricane Erma and Harvey.
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Konrad
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« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2017, 03:06:08 PM »

A big concern with e-CL Combat motors is the shaft diameter. Most of my flights end with a least a bounce on the prop shaft. The 2mm shaft don't hold up! Look at these motors http://www.altitudehobbies.com/suppo-motors/a-series-motors. The 300 to 370 should be more than enough to turn your stomach! Roll Eyes

All the best,
Konrad
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bgrove
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« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2017, 04:02:32 PM »

Thanks for the info Konrad.

I just ordered them  Smiley   Nice looking motors. 
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Konrad
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« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2017, 07:56:25 PM »

To be honest they are low end (economy) motors. Perfect for bouncing off the ground.
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« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2017, 04:44:18 PM »

Wow.  I received my package from Heads Up RC in Florida today.  I was expecting this to be delayed for weeks.  I'm glad to know they are OK and able to still do business/ship product.  I have included a shot of my new goodies!!!   I think I over 'clicked' when shopping  Smiley  '6' new motors to choose from, a new Sky Power 20A ESC and some prop savers.  HURC 250 speed 2300kv, HURC 400 sport 1000kv, HURC 300 blue Wonder 1600kv, Firepower 300 sport 1200kv, Firepower 370 sport 1350kv, and a Power Up 300 speed 1400kv.   I'm thinking of the 300's for the Kitten and my 10A ESC or I'd love suggestions of which to start with from the list  Smiley  (no new suggestions  Roll Eyes ).  I would appreciate any recommendation on Prop sizes/types.  I still need to get those.

Here are some shots of my recent progress.  I realized I can't have a full top hatch due to the tail boom attachment.  So I modified the hatch and added some top sheeting.  My booms, elevator and motor mount fit great and my second spray paint job is just fine.  I'm using the plans 'needle elevator attachment' method but instead of cloth over the exposed pin, I'm making a small notched block I'll glue in place.

Now that my motors have arrived, I'll start to get this plane finished.  This weekend I'll take down my Sinbad Jr. and extract the micro receiver and 10A ESC.  I'll also do some 'filling and sanding' to get things all smoothed out and then I'm covering the wing in left over yellow ultracote.  Classic black and yellow.
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Konrad
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« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2017, 04:55:30 PM »

Never had too much luck with the straight pin pivots, I used 1/16 music wire (or whatever is the thickness of the stab.) What is the cell count of your battery?

The 300 is a good start for an "oldtimer" Roll Eyes

I would think a 7" prop is a good starting place.

Again how is the RX going to work?

My colors where K&B black epoxy to hold up to the 45% nitro and trans orange MoneyKote.


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bgrove
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« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2017, 05:08:07 PM »

Sorry I forgot info on how I plan to use the transmitter.  My plan is that my holder/launcher partner (my son  Smiley) would control the throttle.  Throttle up, launch, then adjust the throttle as I frantically yell commands!!  or, I can use a neck strap/waist strap to attach it around my waist.  Then my left hand can control the throttle while I fly with my right.  That would allow me better control but would also divert some of my focus away from just flying.

For batteries I currently have a 300 mah which I believe is a two cell battery.  I think it's too small, but my next battery up is 1300 mah.  I'll try to pick up battery in the 500mah range when I get some props.  Do you recommend 2 or 3 cells?
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Konrad
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« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2017, 05:34:01 PM »

Cell count is going to be a function of motor KV and prop size. On the 1400Kv  and lower motors I'd use 3 cells. And a 7x5  maybe even a 7x6. I think this will draw a bit more than 10 amps. Remember a 1/2A is generally though to be a 100 plus watt motor.

With a 10 amp limit you might be forced to drop down to a 6x5 or a 7x 3.7 prop. The lower pitch prop might be a benefit for us old guys. Undecided
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« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2017, 10:21:14 PM »

I've chosen the FirePower 300.  It works best with the CG and has a very sturdy stout  Smiley  It really is a beautiful motor, mount, etc.  I'm impressed.   I will be interested to see how these less costly, yet seemingly high quality, motors compare to the park motors which are 3x the cost.   We will see.

So here we go.  I'm starting to cover.  I found a 7 inch prop while searching for a control handle.  I sure I have my old handle plus my Dad's old handle!!!  I'll keep looking.

TGIF.   Date night  Smiley
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Konrad
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« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2017, 11:08:10 PM »

Most Chinese outrunners come from the same 4 or 5 factories.  And of those 3 are the big players. Customer support by the brand has a value, but 3 to 10 time the price spread one needs to look closely at what this value is.
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« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2017, 08:19:28 PM »

Fully covered!!  I'm having to touch up paint on the tail booms/elevator.  Ends up it was NOT a perfect fit and I had to add filler material to make it snug, so I gave it another spray  Smiley

I'm thinking that I'm going to mount the ESC on the exterior, approx. location as per photo, and attach with Velcro.  The manuals all say to give ESC ventilation for cooling, so hey, I'll put it on the exterior. 

Tomorrow I'm hoping to hit the local Hobby store for another couple of batteries for this plane in the 500mah range, hopefully 3 cell, 11.1 volt.  We'll see what they have.
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Konrad
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« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2017, 09:04:51 PM »

CC Talon 25 now that is top grade!  On my Scams I was fighting a tail heavy set up. But the firewall was on the leading edge.  Might want to mount the ESC on the motor fairing. Where are you going to tuck the battery? On the Scam the 3 cell is slid between the main spars and into the "C" sheeting of the leading edge.
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« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2017, 02:07:50 PM »

I'm getting close to finishing!!!

The wing is now fully covered and the tail booms/elevator attached.  Nose block epoxied in place and initial motor mounted.  I ended up getting a couple of 450 mah, 2-cell batteries.  They worked best in my battery compartment.

Konrad, you are so right.  This is tail heavy.  I'm working at moving everything I can as far forward as I can - but it's not yet in balance.  The motor shown is the Firepower 300 with a spinner (I added it for weight but it wasn't enough).  I have since swapped it with a Firepower 370.  The spinner doesn't work on it, but it came with a larger prop nut - probably about equal.  I am also going to remove my fancy top hatch's little clip on the bottom so I can push the battery as far forward as possible.  Another option is downsizing my ESC or making a firewall extension approx. 1/4 to 3/8 inch. 
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Konrad
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« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2017, 02:11:38 PM »

I'd add weight in the form of a low Kv (1400) and 3 cells.
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« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2017, 02:31:00 PM »

I have a HURC 400 that's 11 grams heavier.  I can give that a try.  It's 1000kv.  Although, I like the Firepower's because they appear to be very well built with a strong, thick prop shaft that will stand up to impact.  The HURC not so much.

I don't think going with 3-cells will allow me to move it closer to leading edge - it was thicker.  The CG is literally at the back edge of the LE, so all battery weight is behind the CG.

Here are a couple shots showing that I did squeeze everything into the wing.  I also ran up the motor and the plan had good pull.  I'm confident it will fly  Smiley  I also finish up my connectors on my lead outs.  A crimped metal tube, then soldered, then shrink tubing.   

My hobby store does not have U-Control lines.  Does anyone know a good source?
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« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2017, 02:56:52 PM »

   

My hobby store does not have U-Control lines.  Does anyone know a good source?

Cabelas or Bass Pro - or your nearest fishing tackle shop, I'd say...
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Konrad
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« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2017, 04:06:57 PM »

I get my stuff here.
http://www.sullivanproducts.com/ControlLineMainFrame.htm

Sig Mfg. still has a lot of C/L in their catalog.

Please DON'T solder the leads.

I like the 0.008 lines and the Kevlar lines. The kevlar doesn't kink.
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« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2017, 05:11:41 PM »

I found some great old photos last night of me with some U-Control planes back in the early 1970's.  I love the shot of my Nobler after I put it straight into the ground !!!
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bgrove
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« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2017, 03:56:28 PM »

Konrad, what do you mean by "please don't solder the leads".  I want to make sure I don't do anything unsafe.

I did make a 1/2 inch extension for the motor mount.  I think this gets me also to balance.  I did have to move the battery slightly backward, otherwise my hatch screws would have gone right into the battery.  Not Good!!!  I'm also going to put a larger prop on.  I checked the prop data chart for the motor and it shows up to a 10 inch prop.  I swapped my 7 for an 8 inch, plus the 1/2 inch extension and I'm almost in balance.  So I'm thinking of going with a 9 inch to start.  I'll also see how much more weight I add with the counter sunk mounting screws.
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