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Author Topic: Farman Carte Postale  (Read 5288 times)
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danmellor
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« on: November 09, 2017, 03:52:54 AM »

I know there are several models I SHOULD be building, but a random flash of enthusiasm has overtaken me again and changed my plans once more...

After being reminded of the benefits of low weight/wing loading with the Cub, I fancied another "big" model and remembered I had a set of plans for Fillon's Farman Carte Postale blown up to 200% lurking somewhere. I've built a couple of foam versions in the original peanut size, so this seemed a natural. At 26" span, the chord is 10"! If I can't manage a decent wing loading on this basis, I may as well hang myself now; especially as it's just a fun model, so I'm not constrained by Kit Scale rules regarding any sneaky lightening of the structure.

I'm hoping I can build it lighter than the Cub and it has nearly 50% more area, so this should be fun...!

Cheers and back when progress has been made,

Dan.



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danmellor
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« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2017, 03:53:38 AM »

Incidentally, if anyone knows of any pics of the full size, I would love to see. I can only find one online and it's a head on front view which doesn't show that much. Fin (Such as it is) and rudder built and covered for a grand total of 1.2g with rudder covered but undoped. I can live with that...

Cheers,

Dan.
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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2017, 04:21:39 AM »

Funny how the constraints of Kit Scale do alter the mindset ... I'm building models without wheels at the moment and keep feeling as though some crime is being committed!

Look forward to the Farman ... I have a feeling I have a photo somewhere, but where....

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Mefot
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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 05:04:54 AM »

I'm sure I've seen another one somewhere  Smiley
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 06:36:15 AM »

Don't you yearn for the days when people could quite feasibly design full-size aeroplanes inspired by the sort of thing you buy in a souvenir shop on a day-trip to the seaside?!  Answers on a postcard...

Look forward to your floater Dan.
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ChrisH
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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 07:10:52 AM »

Dan,

I had some success with a peanut 'Postcard' in the late 1980's.   There is a 3view in one of the Bill Hannan books, and some information in a Docavia book.   I wrote to Bill and he gave me Musee de L'Air negative numbers and I tried unsuccessfully to get prints - even going to the museum myself armed with the details!   My Boss was attending regular meetings in Brussels and Paris during the design stage of the Channel Tunnel routes; his French counterpart was a keen (railway) modeller who very kindly extracted prints for me!

You are welcome to a copy of my Nats documentation if you send me email or postal address.

My 3rd peanut attempt weighed 7.8 gm without rubber, with a flat bottom sliced rib built up wing.   The model was stable if the nose stayed up maintaining the loading on the wing, but difficult if the wing unloaded - a bit like flying an EZB!

Chris

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Bredehoft
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2017, 08:54:45 AM »

I'm sure I've seen another one somewhere  Smiley

Please note the strange landing gear levers or skids behind the wheels in that photo.  This feature is NOT on the Fillon/Hannan 3-view!

ADDED NOTE:  I see this landing gear detail in other photos, mostly in the Farman David/Sport from which the Carte Postale was built.  Is this a detail that no one else has seen - or does everyone just leave it off when modeling?

--george
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Mefot
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« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2017, 10:33:40 AM »

I'm sure I've seen another one somewhere  Smiley

Please note the strange landing gear levers or skids behind the wheels in that photo.

--george

It may be there was more than one example built ( I know very little about this subject ), or the 3 view is incorrect  ( it has been known !!! ). The routing of the exhaust is different too. It may just be the aircraft was altered during it's lifetime.

I would like to see more images of this subject if possible and any contemporary reference to it's colour scheme too.

Will you be building it with a flat wing Dan ?
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Mark Braunlich
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« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2017, 10:49:13 AM »

A letter from Bill Hannan, I have no idea where this came from.


Från: Hannan's Runway <runway@hrunway.com>
Till: dhstein@nacka.mail.telia.com <dhstein@nacka.mail.telia.com>
Datum: 19 January 2003 17:14
Ämne: La Carte Postale


Hi Daniel,

Ed Toner forwarded your question concerning the Farman's colors to me.

Circa 1986, Dean McGinnes, of Florida, raised the same question to E.
Fillon, of France, who did the 3-view drawing for our PEANUTS & PISTACHIOS
publication.

After a series of letters between the Musee de l'Air
and Jean Liron (who contacted the Farman's pilot,
M. Coupet), M. Fillon concluded that the Carte Postale did indeed have a red
fuselage with white markings, and silver wings, with black matriculation
letters, silver horizontal tail, and silver rudder with black Farman logos.
A photo of this machine (only one was constructed) appears in Liron's book
"Les Avions Farman," published by Docavia, in France, some years ago. Coupet
is standing in front of the machine in the photo. Although the small
half-tone photo is indistinct, the original print, available from the Musee
de'l'Air, negative number MA 19112, I believe, would appear to confirm this.

The Musee has other photos also, showing the craft before the wing and
fuselage markings were applied, and with a different landing-gear
arrangement.
I think the negative numbers may have been "MA 24289 and MA 24290.

Hope this helps, but sorry that your preferred color scheme seems not to
have been employed!

Cordially,

Bill Hannan
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danmellor
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« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2017, 06:13:28 PM »

Thanks all. The only pic I'd seen, along with Bill Hannan's letter, is on "The Indoor Model Aeroplane" site. I'm not too bothered, as it's just a model I've wanted to do for a while and competition is the last thing on my cider addled brain. Both my foam peanut versions flew well with the scale zero dihedral, so I'm going to go with the flat wing on this one.

Cheers,

Dan.
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danmellor
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2017, 06:19:02 PM »

Progress so far. Rudder with Esaki covering and 2 coats of banana oil weighs 0.75g. 13" span tailplane weighs 2.4g, but there is a lot of sanding to section to be done. The other pic is my last foam version in the original size. Sadly, it only had one outing before being jumped on by a very fat cat whilst unloading the car after the Barkston Nats. Sorry it's a rubbish pic, but phone cameras have advanced a lot since 2007 or so!

Cheers,

Dan.
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danmellor
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« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2017, 12:02:09 PM »

Started on another tailplane after realising that the original drawing is wildly asymmetrical. One side of the tp is around 1/4" longer than the other, one elevator is around 1/8" longer and the rib spacing is all over the place.

I don't know if it's the same on the original plan, or if it's because this is an enlargement of a copy of an enlargement. Either way, I should have spotted it before cutting wood....

Oh well!

Dan.



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Jack Plane
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« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2017, 02:36:08 PM »

A good way of getting completely identical wings and tailplane parts is to print (or photocopy) onto tracing paper, which can then be used either way up.   Wink
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danmellor
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« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2017, 04:13:25 AM »

Attempt no.2. All the rib positions corrected and just the tailplane sanding to go!

Cheers,

Dan.
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danmellor
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« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2017, 06:49:03 PM »

Tail surfaces now banana oiled and waiting for paint. I'm going for an all painted finish on this, as it's kind of a practice run for a proposed Open Class model. First fuselage side is nailed down; just a couple of diagonals and gussets to add. Slow going on my current shift pattern, but even a couple of pieces a day will see it finished eventually...

Cheers,

Dan.
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danmellor
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« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2017, 05:51:31 PM »

A little more progress. The main circular motor mounting former is only about an inch in front of the forward Wing mounting strut, so to avoid the weak cracked and sharply pulled in longerons, there will be solid sheet mountings. The top longerons will also have 3/32" doublers over the point where they break for the struts. The struts are 3/32" sq spruce with balsa TE fairings. Maybe overkill, but there is a LOT of wing to support!

I can't take any credit for the wheels. I bought them on impulse about 5 years ago! I can't prove that the prototype ever had spoked wheels fitted, but I defy anyone to prove it didn't. It's not a competition model and I want to use them, so there! I did spray them, as they were moulded in bile coloured plastic and I did replace the O ring tyres (15g the pair) with neoprene cord. This is sold as car door seal material in various useful sizes and is very handy stuff!

Cheers,

Dan.
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« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2017, 04:05:44 AM »

The beefy struts are a good idea Dan ... A 'normal' parasol wing needs sturdy supports in my limited experience with them.

I bet they are spoked wheels 'lurking' below the covers on the original .....so valid, if a little naked!
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danmellor
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« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2017, 08:05:35 AM »

My thoughts exactly, Russ! My plan for today is to get the second fuselage side nailed down, but I am going to the pub for a bit when Jane goes to work, so that may fall by the wayside. Thatcher's Scrumpy and scalpels do not mix well...

Cheers!

Dan
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danmellor
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« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2017, 08:07:10 AM »

Going to the pub has it's plus side. I've managed to get one of the regulars hooked and he is just about to choose his 3rd model.

Dan.
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2017, 08:35:35 AM »

What's he chosen?!  Cheesy
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2017, 09:21:13 AM »

Going to the pub has it's plus side.
There's a minus side??
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danmellor
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« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2017, 09:27:03 AM »

Good point, Pete! The regular in question has already built a couple of kits that I gave him when he expressed an interest. I think he's leaning towards my recommendation of a VMC Tiggie next, as he said he fancied a bipe...

Cheers,

Dan.
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danmellor
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« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2017, 01:26:51 PM »

Turns out there is a downside to going to the pub. I just bought a Herr Fairchild kit that I had no intention of bidding on before 3 pints of Thatcher's Scrumpy and a bottle of Hobgoblin...

Oh well!

Dan.
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Mefot
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« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2017, 01:32:21 PM »

I hear Peter's partial to the occasional Fairchild. Maybe you could sell it to him !!!   Cheesy   Grin
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2017, 01:49:02 PM »

Seriously, you maybe could!
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