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Author Topic: VMC Cessna Bird Dog  (Read 4643 times)
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Andrew Darby
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« on: December 10, 2017, 01:01:33 PM »

The next from VMC.

This is my hand cut and rough prototype, I do this to check for how things look and to check for any gross errors before laying out parts for laser cutting.

This was my choice rather than VMC's.  The Sopwith Camel, Triplane, Corsair and Mustang were their choices so I decided to do one that I liked this time.

I like the bird dog, I built the FROG one a few years back, and I have a Guillows kit.  The Guillows kit is tempting but has always dissapointed me, the die cuts are poor and the method of construction is a little too heavy for the size.

The Span is 21" -bigger than most VMC monoplanes, but I think that it needed to be bigger to hit the sweet spot for the methods of construction, fuselage size and wood sizes whilst still being reasonable to handle.  I have given the model a simple "rounded" profile on the lower part of the fuselage.  I haven't gone mad with stringers, just enough to try and pick out the shape.

The tail plane and fin will be built up the sheet ones are just for show.

Next step is to lay out the parts for laser cutting.

Andrew

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VMC Cessna Bird Dog
VMC Cessna Bird Dog
VMC Cessna Bird Dog
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« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2017, 01:46:21 PM »

I can't keep up
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danmellor
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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2017, 01:58:13 PM »

Very nice. Again! Can we compromise on a Gee Bee Model D, then?!

Tee hee,

Dan.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2017, 02:27:07 PM »

Very nice again! I do like a Bird Dog. Something perky about it.
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TheLurker
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« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2017, 02:32:30 PM »

Count me in.  I built Airfix's non flying 1/72 version of this in nineteen seventy mumble and thought at the time that it was a lovely little aeroplane and your prototype looks just as nice as I remember.  Definitely added to my build programme.
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RalphS
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« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2017, 02:38:04 PM »

Nice to see that you are doing other than KK designs.  I built the Guillow's bird Dog and apart from throwing the super-heavy strip wood away I found it to be a nice light build.  It was initially built for outdoor flying with a large balsa prop and flying right right. I flew it in the velodrome this way although with a new noseblock and smaller plastic prop and it was okay but looked wrong with most of the others circling in the "wrong" direction so I have tried to retrim it to fly left. Still work to do.

Why the all sheet fin and T/P?  

Ralph
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Andrew Darby
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« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2017, 02:56:32 PM »

Hi Ralph,

Nice to see that you are doing other than KK designs.

Why the all sheet fin and T/P?

Ralph

In short I don't, KK nor Veron ever did a Corsair, KK never did a triplane or a Tiger Moth, all of these have been from scratch and three views.  They just follow the "sprit" of the KK and Veron designs.

The sheet parts are just for show as I said in my first post.  if you look closely you will see the layouts of the parts for the built up items.  I just do this to check the over all fit and character...

Andrew

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Klunk
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« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2017, 03:10:57 PM »

Nice Andrew. Sensible size too.  Given the apparent strictness to the plan for KS in the UK will you help them out with a few more stringers around the nose and / or option to infill?
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Andrew Darby
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« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2017, 03:17:30 PM »

Hi ZK,

Yes, the option will be open to in-fill the nose, the plan will show a paper part covering the nose as per normal...

Andrew
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Klunk
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« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2017, 04:42:26 PM »

Very nice.

Scott
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RalphS
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« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2017, 05:00:41 PM »

In short I don't, KK nor Veron ever did a Corsair, KK never did a triplane or a Tiger Moth, all of these have been from scratch and three views.  They just follow the "sprit" of the KK and Veron designs.

Sorry about that.  I thought that you took the original KK and Veron designs and just made the parts more accurate to aid building.  That the spans of the originals, and the quoted price, of your designs are similar added to that thought.  So if I buy a VMC KK replica kit it won't be the same as your design. The notches can be a bit out and the wing and tail halves can be slightly different although laser cut to the original drawings.

I saw your re-engineered Auster Arrow at the Indoor Nats and thought that it was as I described above and hence to the same KK design as the model that I entered.  It is not listed with the other models that you have designed from scratch but listed with the KK designs.  Is it as the original or modified?

I see that a more bold credit is given to Peter Rakes designs on the VMC website rather than the credit in the text given to your designs again adding to the "cleaned up" design concept.

If you do a Chrislea Super Ace I might raid the piggy bank and buy a kit.  In the meantime I look forward to seeing progress on the Bird Dog and it might encourage me to refurb my version - the Guillows decals all peeled off.  Do the VMC kits use decals now or paper cut-outs?

Ralph





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Andrew Darby
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« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2017, 05:50:22 PM »

Hi Ralph,

No problem.  The model I flew at the nationals was the Cessna 140, not the Auster.  In profile it is very similar to the KK one, although the structure is quite different.  This was the first model I did for VMC so I stuck with something quite safe shape wise and concentrated on how best to use the laser process to make a simpler/easier construction.  Other than that they are completely different to either the KK and Veron designs.  The sparrowhawk and Osprey sports designs are completely new.  The spans and sizes are similar -as these are meant to carry the spirit of the KK and Veron designs, but with an easier construction parts that fit and removeable nose blocks etc.

VMC still sell the original KK and Veron designs as replica's.  The plans are the same old ones.  I have had a hand in making some corrections to errant parts, but those designs are still as they ever were warts and all!

The ones I have worked on are the "Magnifiecent Flying Machines", I am credited enough on the website, I am effectively the in house VMC designer so was happy enough with the brand name.  I have never sought to call these after myself - it would seem a little egotistical, in the same vein that the KK flying scale ones weren't "Albert Hatfull designs" or the Veron ones weren't "Phil Smith designs"

The decals are paper, however they are available as downloadable files should one want to print them on to decal paper.

Here is the line up.

https://www.vintagemodelcompany.com/magnificent-flying-machines/page/1/

Andrew
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Klunk
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« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2017, 03:28:40 AM »

Fabo Andrew!  I dimly recall building a Guillow's Bird Dog in the 1970s, probably some time between the toilet-paper shortage and the binmen's strike, but all I can remember of it is the box-art.

Having now built and flown two scale Magnificent Flying Machines kits (and supervised my son building and flying his sports kit), I can say with some experience that the combination of CAD technology with laser-cutting (on good balsa of light and medium-light weight) with highly-accomplished design by Andrew (with inspiration from Phil and Albert) produces excellent flying models - which is what its all about!   Grin

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DavidJP
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« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2017, 03:31:18 AM »

Well this is another “nice one”.  Carrying on the tradition offered by KK and Veron.  Now the youngsters of today can imitate us old lags if they wish and no doubt will find as I did that impatience is the cause of failure but none the less I hope that they will persevere as we did.  They should because the quality of the contents is very much higher and shredding ones finger tips trying to cut box wood with a broken safety razor no longer necessary.
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Rudder flutter
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« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2017, 08:57:32 AM »

Good choice Andrew, As a kid this is one I always wanted to build and wished KK or Veronicas had kitted it.
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Richard Crossley
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« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2018, 02:51:59 AM »

I was pretty poorly over Christmas, I hesitate to say the flu at that is very serious, but suffice to say it was enough to stop me from doing much building, shakey hands aren't great for applying tissue!  BUT I was able to get well ahead with the plan which is pretty much complete.

This means that I have had to Burn the midnight oil in the last couple of weeks to complete the flying prototype before the flying session tommorow at Nottingham.

Pictured isn't my initial mock up as per post number 1, it is the first laser cut set of parts.  VMC are trying to source some darker green tissue for the kit, I have just used whatever I had for this flying prototype.

What you see is around 23g, and it's not too far away from the balance point.  At 21" span this should float around ok.

I have drawn up the scheme markings, if I have time today I will stick 'em on..

Andrew
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: VMC Cessna Bird Dog
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Klunk
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« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2018, 03:07:35 AM »

Love it!  Well done.

Sorry to hear about the cold/flu thing.  My son had the full flu for two weeks over his holidays but is thankfully finally better, and I've been battling a cold for the last week.  I was due to go indoor flying today, and tomorrow looks quite benign for some first outdoor RC action in ages, but I can't risk a relapse.  I have however seen my first Snowdrops and other buds of new life, and can hear birdsong outside the window.  Smiley
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« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2018, 06:39:46 AM »

That's a great looking Bird Dog,Andrew.

Scott
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« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2018, 07:40:27 AM »

Lovely model,

Great attention to detail around windows and daihedral.
Are you going to add wing struts?

Klaus
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« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2018, 08:03:15 AM »

That's lovely Andrew - you've captured it spot on  Smiley
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Andrew Darby
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« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2018, 08:20:49 AM »

Thanks guys,

Yes Klaus, the struts will be on by the end of the day.

I've just painted the wheels and prop - after giving it a good old scrape to balance it...

Will post some more picture later.

Andrew
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« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2018, 11:20:18 AM »

That's lovely Andrew - you've captured it spot on  Smiley

I agree; it's captured the character of the full size.
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2018, 12:17:26 PM »

Yup- yet another VMC goody to add to the build list! I was going to ask about the struts too, so am glad they're being added.
See you, and it, at the Harvey Hadden* tomorrow.




* Soon to be renamed the 'Bill Dennis Pratfall Memorial Centre' so I understand.

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Andrew Darby
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« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2018, 02:10:56 PM »

Pete... LOL!  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy. Not laughing at Bill per se, but laughing at the wittiness of your comment...  Are you coming tommorow Bill?  If so I'll hold him down and you can Jab him in the ribs and see how funny he is then!  Cheesy Grin Grin

Well it's done, as much as I'm going to do.  AUW is 25g, with a 1.5 times prop hook to peg length of 3.8mm rubber.  Fast glides on to the bed are good, but I reckon some nasty noseweight will be lumped on tomorrow.

There are a few wrinkles and botches, for a start the glazing is a little dodgy as I tweaked it for the plan patterns, and I managed somehow to get the "marines" one letter out around the peg position making it one further back than it should have been  Embarrassed

I also realised whilst taking the pictures that I missed fitting the inlet on the "chin", you can see it in the pictures...

Andrew



Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: VMC Cessna Bird Dog
Re: VMC Cessna Bird Dog
Re: VMC Cessna Bird Dog
Re: VMC Cessna Bird Dog
Re: VMC Cessna Bird Dog
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Klunk
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« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2018, 02:25:01 PM »

I look at my existing build programme.....

...at the remaining shelf space in my study.....

...the number of moths in my wallet....

... and finally shake my head in resignation knowing that I will be completely incapable of resisting the urge to purchase this kit when it hits the shelves.

It looks spot on and the green tissue colour looks more than good enough for me.
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