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Author Topic: VMC Cessna Bird Dog  (Read 4973 times)
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Andrew Darby
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« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2018, 01:04:52 PM »

It's a remarkable piece of kit that, there is a bit of balsa in it, but not a lot.  The paper is stiffened very effectively by creating ribs in it.

I have the plan to scan in, when I get chance.

Andrew
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billdennis747
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« Reply #51 on: January 19, 2018, 02:01:35 PM »

The paper is stiffened very effectively by creating ribs in it.
That's a good idea. You could use it for the sides of - say - a Sopwith Triplane.
The Stosser was possibly the best-flying indoor model I ever saw but the technique is not suited  to compound curves. He used airmail paper for the smaller models like the Fokker DVIII. At the other extreme, the first time I met Mike (outside the Nottingham club tent/bar at the nationals) he was wielding a biggish Mitsubishi Claude.
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Andrew Darby
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« Reply #52 on: January 19, 2018, 06:50:38 PM »

Not sure what you are saying Bill  Huh  Well I do actually!  In all honesty I didn't see his model until after I had published the Triplane plan to VMC... Grin

What can I say - great minds think alike?  Cheesy

Andrew
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Gromit
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« Reply #53 on: January 22, 2018, 01:14:00 PM »

Mike had championed the paper stressed skin structure from the very early days - before my time I will add to forestall the expected comment!  His first published paper skin design was a Ryan PT25 in the January 1946 Aeromodeller when he was 19 and a draftsman at a Doncaster boiler manufacturer if I remember correctly.  The model was a round-the pole model of around 18" span although he said that he had been experimenting with FF models for a couple of years before that.  I've not located the original Interceptor publication (Paul's model) as yet.

His technique involve pre-coating papers of differing weights, dependent on the size of model of course, with a couple of coats of thinned dope (or sometimes banana oil depending how stiff he wanted the resulting parts - Banana oil being a bit more flexible) on both sides to maintain a flat sheet.  He sometimes painted/sprayed the final finish on one side before building and would project the 3D shape directly on to the back of the prepared paper before cutting and assembling - all very skillful with that skill now being lost with the advent of CAD.

I've tried this technique a few times and it is not easy particularly where the prototype has a bit of double curvature so well done Paul

Doug
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Andrew Darby
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« Reply #54 on: January 22, 2018, 02:38:46 PM »

Is that the NMAC Doug?  Grin

Andrew
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Klunk
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« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2018, 09:52:37 AM »

Whichever Doug it is, it's a most interesting inaugural post, so hello!
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Hepcat
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« Reply #56 on: January 23, 2018, 08:56:00 PM »

I always remember Mike Heatherington's 'Ryan' because the Jan 1946 'Aeromodeller' also had the 'Hepcat' plan and I was also 19 and also was an apprentice draughtsman but I was serving my time at 'Aveling-Barford', makers of Road Rollers.  At that time Barfords were making what was probably the last Steam roller. It was for export to India where there was lots of free stuff to burn to keep the steam up.
John
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2018, 03:29:58 AM »

Fascinating! And 'Barfords steam rollers' will now need googling. You never know what you're going to find out on this forum. Thanks John!
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Ausmodeller
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« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2018, 06:14:55 AM »

I don't know about anybody else but when I pass road works I still refer to road rollers as 'steam rollers'.
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Andrew Darby
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« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2018, 03:58:49 PM »

My lad who is nine calls it a steam roller!  I think the name has stuck, even though steam has nowt to do with it, and hasn't for quite some time...

Andrew
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« Reply #60 on: January 24, 2018, 05:55:06 PM »

It was for export to India where there was lots of free stuff to burn to keep the steam up.
John

  I think they burn dried cow turds over there,  but that may be for cooking on.  Steam rollers might need a greater calorific value
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #61 on: January 24, 2018, 05:57:55 PM »

I think it probably IS called a steam roller still. Does anyone say 'road roller'? I suppose a lot of current words have obsolete origins. (Eg. 'Pen' really means feather, but even up here in darkest Yorkshire few of us still write with quills.)
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DHnut
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« Reply #62 on: January 24, 2018, 06:11:56 PM »

I can remember steam rollers of the Avelling Barford type in Auckland. Road repair was a somewhat slower process in those days. I think coal was used as the fuel and the spectacle and noise was impressive. Start up was a leisurely processif from cold.
Clearly John you gravitated up the road to DH and greater things.
  Ricky
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« Reply #63 on: January 25, 2018, 10:43:16 AM »

Yes Andrew, NMAC Doug

I think usual is steam roller for coal-fired with solid roll at the front, road roller for diesel power with roll, steam tractor for coal-fired with wheels and Showman's engine for a tractor with big generator and fairground lights. Learnt to drive them with a pal many years ago who now has 12.5 ton Aveling and Porter steamroller from 1920 called Sarah.

Wing loading far too high so I reverted to aeromodelling

NMAC Doug

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Andrew Darby
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« Reply #64 on: January 25, 2018, 12:58:12 PM »

Great to see you on here Doug!

Andrew
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« Reply #65 on: January 25, 2018, 05:38:10 PM »

I thought you'd keep schtum (sp?) and be Cheshire cat Doug  Grin (can't do a grin-only emoticon)

You've started now...
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Hepcat
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« Reply #66 on: January 26, 2018, 06:55:41 AM »

Here is another interesting thing about road rollers (sorry, skip the 'another'). One day I saw a casting,  about the size of a coffin being unloaded and I asked what it was for.  I was told it was literally a ton weight.  It was mounted under the body of the roller and could be winched forwards and backwards to get the CG in the correct place bwtween the forward roller and the rear wheels. So, when an expert tells you to put a bit of clay in the nose to get the balance right, take notice, it is good engineeringpractice.
John
 
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Andrew Darby
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« Reply #67 on: February 13, 2018, 06:33:01 PM »

Rollering on...

After much searching and trials by the guys at VMC they finally managed to get some suitable dark green tissue.

Here it is as a trial on my rough cut mock up...

Andrew
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« Reply #68 on: February 14, 2018, 07:56:33 AM »

Excellent. I like the look of that colour and density for all sorts of subjects.
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Andrew Darby
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« Reply #69 on: February 14, 2018, 08:40:04 AM »

The colour density is good, although slightly variable...

Certainly decent enough for a coloured tissue model, and a decent base for a light dusting of paint for those so inclined...

Andrew
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Andrew Darby
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« Reply #70 on: March 07, 2018, 04:38:15 AM »

Here is the final prototype for the kit pictures.

The tissue looks really good, well worth the effort and delay of trying to find a suitable colour.

I'm guessing this will be available in 4-6 weeks or so...

Andrew
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billdennis747
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« Reply #71 on: March 07, 2018, 05:01:08 AM »

It looks a cracker Andrew. Do I see double curvature on the rear screen? And is it easy to fit the front? My technique is to ensure there is balsa dust inside that can appear later inside the screen, then smear lots of glue where it shouldn't  be. Of all the skills I don't have, fitting screens neatly is the one I don't have the most.
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« Reply #72 on: March 07, 2018, 05:14:58 AM »

Hands up all the WW1 builders that have the same problem!

Nice build Andrew  Smiley
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Pete Fardell
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« Reply #73 on: March 07, 2018, 09:17:09 AM »

Very nice indeed! And I agree- the tissue looks spot on.
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Andrew Darby
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« Reply #74 on: March 07, 2018, 10:08:26 AM »

Hi,

Thanks All.

Bill the rear screen is scored in a triangular shape to make a flat centre part and then curved sides.  The front should meet fine if the shape is cut accurately.  The Acetate that VMC provide is just the right thickness, not too thick to be heavy and not too thin to make it easily damaged.  Because it is suitably thin it is easily held in position temporarily with small tabs of masking tape without it "pinging" out.  So generally I get it all in position dry using making tape, then feed tiny amounts of superglue in at the free edges at key points using a pin allowing it to capillary into the gap.  Because I use so little it doesn't "fog" and if you hold the acetate down with the point of a pin until the glue goes off you don't end up with you or something else being glued to the model, or indeed finger prints on your windows...

Andrew
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