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Author Topic: Little [s]Brown[/s] Natural metal Jug.  (Read 3948 times)
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Work In Progress
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« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2018, 06:26:07 AM »

That fuselage covering job seems impossible, and yet there it is.
Would some kind soul provide a link to this YouTube video?
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Prosper
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« Reply #51 on: January 19, 2018, 07:42:26 AM »

Hullo WiP try this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GYNskBwap0

Stephen.
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« Reply #52 on: January 19, 2018, 07:43:50 AM »

Here you go -I need to watch it as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrO-0ktP1qk  part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GYNskBwap0  part 2

John
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« Reply #53 on: January 19, 2018, 08:05:09 AM »

After I saw that video, that's now the way I cover all my fuses. It's such a relief from laying in bed or driving around town dreaming of all those ^%$#ing tissue bits you are gonna have to fit. Those crazy-canuck-balsa butchers really have figured out the fast way to the flying field!
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« Reply #54 on: January 20, 2018, 04:08:16 AM »

Many years ago I watched/handed tools to Ed Fisher (Zippy Sport designer) as he built a pair of fuselage/landing gear leg fairings for a Cassutt racer.

First he taped Saran Wrap to the area where the fairings would be plus a couple of inches at the top and bottom.

Then he applied modelling clay and sculpted it into the fairing shapes.

Then he cut pieces of thin woven fiberglass cloth to size for two layers on each fairing.

Then he soaked the cloth in resin and applied it.

After the cloth set but before it had hardened he used a single edge razor blade to carefully cut through the fairings along the trailing edge of the inside of each gear leg.

After the cloth hardened he wiggled the fairings off of the clay, slid them down the gear legs, spread them at the slit and slipped them off of the gear legs.

Then he removed the clay and Saran Wrap, trimmed the edges of the fairings, slipped them back in place and drilled mounting holes for flat head screws.

Then he took the fairings back off, did some filling and sanding and painted them before re-installing them.

His fairings wound up being about 1/16" (1.5mm) thick but they were on a full size 210 mph airplane.

Around the same time a fiberglass cloth salesman gave me his business card which was made from a hardened resin filled sheet of fiberglass cloth. It was .004" (.1mm) thick.
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« Reply #55 on: January 21, 2018, 09:31:58 AM »

Hi John, that's a nice memory. Stylish craftsmanship.

Covering the other side of the P-47 fuselage didn't go so well; there's a monster patch of wrinkles at the bottom of the fuselage under the wing, and some minor icky bits. Mind you, it went better than I'd dared hope so I'm happy with it. I felt there was no point taking the tissue off. Other attempts would be just as likely worse than better. Anyway, stripping the second half would jeopardise the first. It seemed that the most conservative approach would be to try a patch over the dodgy area, before considering more drastic intervention. This seems to have worked - it's introduced a wrinkle or two of its own, but that's nothing compared to what's underneath.

While measuring the size of the fuselage insignia from a photo I realised that I've got the wing insignia wrong. I thought there was something funny about them. When I made the stencil I was thinking of the earlier version as applied to my F6F model, the style with the red border (much better-looking IMO). I reasoned that since this later style had just two colours and a blue border then it couldn't have blue next to the blue border or it wouldn't be a border, would it? No, so it must have white next to it, so the star must be blue.  Perfect logic.

Oh well, I may try to correct the wing insignia if time allows.

Stephen.



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« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2018, 09:04:46 AM »

There's work going on here but no progress, it seems. Messy work trying to remake the U.S.A.A.F insignia - doing the one on the flat surface was okay but the one on the finished wing was touchy. I've also been trying to make waterslide transfers (unsuccessfully so far) and doing some covering jobs - I'm currently waiting for some air with humidity < 95% to see whether the cobbled or reptilian look, which is just visible on the fin and rudder (it's in fact much worse than the photo shows), will disappear.

I had planned a snazzy colour scheme based on transfers (AKA decals) but if I can't make these it'll end up as a bland, generic Razorback but with yellow go-faster stripes.

Stephen.

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RalphS
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« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2018, 11:32:54 AM »

I've also been trying to make waterslide transfers (unsuccessfully so far)

Lots of hard work going on here. 

When you get a few minutes send for a trial pack of decal paper (white/clear/transfer) from Mr Decal Paper off ebay.  This material works for me.  I am using an Epson printer that does not use the waterproof ink - wrong purchase - but after a quick spray with gloss clear acrylic varnish the colours do not run.  Microsol helps to float the decals into position and shrink them down to the surface as they dry.

As a kid we used to find drop tanks in the fens, that supposedly came from 'jugs'.  Lovely big planes.
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« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2018, 12:35:40 PM »

Thanks for the lead Ralph, I've bookmarked the site. I did try commercial paper once before but it was very pricey. This seems reasonably priced. I'll carry my experiments through and buy some of this stuff if they fail.

Yes I suppose the Jug is quite handsome in a way. . .built for comfort not for speed, you might say, although in fact it was very fast once it got steam up, especially 'in the direction of downwards'. Apparently the RAF said that if fired upon, the Thunderbolt pilot could dodge the bullets by scurrying around inside the fuselage.

Stephen.
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« Reply #59 on: January 26, 2018, 06:18:49 AM »

There's now just a wing to cover once the panel lines are drawn on the tissue, but I may cover the fin again as it's wrinkled. The close-up of the fuselage shows where there had been a tiny ruck in the tissue - I think it had snagged on a bit of dried glue on the stringer. Muggins is irritated by this and tries to tease it out. . .turning it from an almost unnoticeable ridge into a major blemish. . .It's fair to say that silver shows up every little flaw, but then so does white, or black, or. . .

For comparison the tailplane including hinges weighs 0.012g/cm2 whereas I would consider 0.016g/cm2 to be an acceptable weight for a balsa/aliphatic sheet tailplane.

Stephen.

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« Reply #60 on: January 26, 2018, 11:02:03 AM »

I managed to finish today with something that looks quite reminiscent of a P-47. . .the tails's not 'buttoned up' yet but the razorback is fixed on. This has caused some distortion (as in waviness) of the tissue between the two topmost stringers. The decking is balsa/aliphatic sheet and is so much stiffer than what it's fixed to that it has tried to bend the S&T fuselage to its shape, rather than vice versa. The conjunction of S&T with balsa/aliphatic sheet is something I wanted to investigate and this build has provided the chance. It's worked okay where the rudder tissue is fixed to a sheet part (purple arrow). Maybe I should have fixed the razorback to the fuselage before tissue covering.

While I still had access to the inside of the fuselage I pasted two tiny tissue patches under the blemished area in the previous post, which allowed me to smooth the lumpiness out. After all that faff, it now looks about the same as before I tried to repair it in the first place.

For the first time I have a very close estimate of its final weight. I nearly had a heart attack when I mistook a 10g weight on my balance as a 20g weight, but in fact although - inevitably - a good bit heavier than the F6F, it looks as if it'll weigh about what I expected at the outset.

Stephen.

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« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2018, 01:11:12 AM »

Pretty good Stephen. You are your own "devils advocate".

I putting my money on a good flying and looking model.

John
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« Reply #62 on: February 05, 2018, 10:21:31 AM »

Here is where I am with the 'bolt: about nowhere. I had little modelling time last week, and the time I had was used up messing with transfers, using commercial waterslide paper as recommended by Ralph. Pic 1 is my first attempt at application. Can anyone spot that it's a transfer - or does it blend invisibly into the tissue?

I built up layers of acrylic varnish patiently over days to make these transfers. I had found in the past that just a sprayed coat or two was okay for small items but wouldn't hold large transfers together, so I made 'em good and thick, and it seems that they're too strong for the tissue. I thought also that they would carry enough sticky stuff on the back of them to adhere to the tissue when applied (when I made Airfix kits as a boy they would stick okay). Obviously not.

I sprayed the first acrylic coat and then painted the additional layers. Blasting on too much in one go causes the printed devices to split as the arrowed "4" did. I'll try a couple more with glue underneath to fix them - if that don't work it'll be "Plain Jane" rather than "Hun Hunter".

Stephen.

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RalphS
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« Reply #63 on: February 05, 2018, 03:54:19 PM »

Possibly too much varnish.

Looking at Mr Decal Paper's instructions he says that too much varnish can harden the decal making it difficult to apply.

I only give the decal sheet two thin coats of Humbrol Clear Varnish (rattle cans).  I was introduced to "hot-spray" system paints
in industry and when using spray cans I always put the can in a jug of very hot water for a few minutes.  This thins the paint
and increases the pressure giving a fine coat.

I read, in a plastic model magazine, about the use of Microsol to float the decal into the correct position and flatten the decal as it dries out overnight.  This works well and I don't bother to over-spray the decal once in position.

In my pics, all lettering and insignia are decals.  Some are painted first as a sheet then cut out, some are inkjet printed on clear decal paper, the insignia are inkjet printed then cut out. 

As I was told, as an apprentice, "don't give up while there is material in the stores".  Grin
 

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« Reply #64 on: February 05, 2018, 05:02:32 PM »

Ralph, those beautiful models. . .geez. That Hawker Fury is a major lovely. That was the scheme I was going for on a Hawker Fury I started several years ago and failed to finish because I couldn't cover the wings. It's good to see how it should have looked!

I didn't miss your mention of Microsol in your earlier post, but thought that it might not work with, or might attack even, the silver paint I've used. I hate to buy something and find that it doesn't work and that there's no other earthly use for it.

Yes I think the transfers are too thick and crispy. Perhaps the bigger ones willl work with some fixative underneath them. I agree completely with the 'material in the stores' thing and generally live by it - but the material I find lacking presently is time! [discussion: is time a material?]

Regards,
Stephen.
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« Reply #65 on: February 05, 2018, 05:07:41 PM »

You'll get there Stephen. A minor setback for someone with your detailing talent. Smiley

John
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« Reply #66 on: February 05, 2018, 05:32:12 PM »

Stephen, I echo what Ralph has said. I give just one coat - enough to stop the ink running. I recently used Humbrol Decal Fix which seems to do the same as Microsol. They claim it lets you apply the decal to a matt surface.
I do, however, give a sealing coat, otherwise I find bits chip off eventually
Bill
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« Reply #67 on: February 05, 2018, 06:27:48 PM »

Ralph, those beautiful models. . .geez.
I was just thinking exactly the same when I saw those three pics. I mean, we already knew each model was a little gem, but when you see them all lined up in a nice row like that... well, sheer class and somehow (like all the best modellers) with an indefinable unifying style.
(I won't go on though. Don't want to embarrass the poor chap!)

When it comes to producing decals, I'm quite good at producing two kinds: the run-when-wet sort and the thick-hard-need-nailing-down sort. The in-between kind, not so much.
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« Reply #68 on: February 06, 2018, 03:47:06 AM »

Thanks all, for the advice and encouragement. My printer is u/s at the mo, but I can take another shot when it's running again. Meanwhile I'll see what I can do with the rest of the sheet I've produced. And anyway there are many other jobs to do on the model - I just wanted the transfers on before assembling the airframe - much easier to work on single components rather than the whole doodad. I'd knock the tail off while concentrating on the nose, or something.

I'm no footie fan by any stretch, but don't they also have trouble getting their transfers done before the season closes?

Stephen.
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« Reply #69 on: February 06, 2018, 04:46:51 AM »

Too much fixative? Smiley

John
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« Reply #70 on: February 13, 2018, 09:12:44 AM »

Update - or perhaps downdate would be more accurate. This project has been overtaken by work, meaning I only have odd bits of time to spare at present. What's more with the possibility of Spring appearing in a couple of months my priorities have changed. I'm using most available time to prepare balsa/aliphatic skin panels for models that will need long grass for trimming flights. Cutting a panel then wetting it and binding it to a mould takes a few minutes and little thought: the panel's then left 8 or 10hrs to dry, released, and another one bound when a few minutes are available.

However I had a go at covering the right wing of the P-47 this morning. I shouldn't have tried with fingers stinging and part numb with cold, nor with a forefinger out of action through injury. But without those handicaps I'd probably have messed the task up anyway - that's my way with tissue covering.

I seem to remember covering the left wing with dry tissue that was good and flat. Because the prepainted tissue panels for the right wing had been lying around for weeks they had taken on a cobbled texture, and I had to wet them thoroughly so that they would shrink taut and flat. When applied, the bottom panel slithered around and then grabbed very unevenly, introducing a great bow to the trailing edge once dry. I had to tug the top covering as hard as possible to eliminate this bow, and when the dust settled I saw that the taut top covering had slackened the bottom covering; that the bow was still there and that the cobbles were still visible on both sides.

Oh yes - I also wrecked the covering of the fin a few days ago by attempting to glue the curly transfer (previous post) into place. this worked but the springy slab of transfer plus the glue were much more solid than the tissue once dry, the result being wrinkled tissue around the transfer.

No steps forward, two steps back is no good for me at the moment. I'm setting the Thunderbolt aside until I can take a clear run at it to get it back on track.

Stephen.
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« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2018, 02:18:29 PM »

Quote
No steps forward, two steps back is no good for me at the moment. I'm setting the Thunderbolt aside until I can take a clear run at it to get it back on track.

Still, it's cool to see this.  Doesn't tissue covering tend to taughten over time?  If you set it aside for a time, it may resolve itself.  Nice seeing the details like the shell ejector chutes on the underside of the wing.
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« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2018, 10:46:13 PM »

Hey it doesn't look that bad Stephen. I'm wondering how 3 - 5 thou mylar would work on these light structures?

That's a funny dance you're describing.It would leave your partner in limbo!

John
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« Reply #73 on: February 14, 2018, 06:24:54 AM »

Hi Marlin and John. I think if the tissue shrank some more it might efface a few of the wrinkly bits - but would warp the wing more too. The bowed t.e. I mentioned means that there's maximum washout where the yellow stripe is, then it decreases toward the wingtip. I think this preshrunk and prepainted tissue may have no more 'shrinkability' anyway, other than any I lent it by tugging it taut during application.

I expect Mylar would work for one knowing how to use it. I tried Mylar some years ago and realised it was a technique in its own right, not just a variant of tissue covering. Another thing to be learned and mastered, with the time and effort that implies. . .it doesn't hold enough interest for me to get that involved.

Quote
It would leave your partner in limbo!
that's where the "clear run at it" comes in John! Lots of steps back then a run to catch up - it's called the "Merry Dance". The partner, name of Esaki Tishoo in this case, stands there looking relaxed and smug, while I scurry round agitatedly Smiley.

I'll get back to this model later this year I expect.

Stephen.
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