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Author Topic: MotionRC is no engineering house. (MRC, Motion RC)  (Read 966 times)
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Konrad
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« on: March 07, 2018, 12:39:47 PM »

It looks like MotionRC’s thin veneer, as being the driving force of many new products, is beginning to crack.

It looks like a lot of MotionRC’s suppliers have had enough of them claiming to have done more than they have.
You can look at some of my post here on HIP to see the many engineering issues I’ve had with MotionRC. I’m just one customer. I can just imagine dealing with them as their supplier is all but overwhelming!
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=39263671&postcount=1165

While I’m sure MotionRC gives product and marketing feed back to their suppliers. I know any engineer input is of little value, based on my experience with the firm MotionRC.

Now MotionRC is very good at replacing defective parts with more of the same. But in my book this is not what I would call exemplary customer support.

Buyer be ware!!
MotionRC may be good with parts support. This is more than one can say about many firms. But if you are in need of much more than that, GOOD LUCK!!!

All the best,
Konrad
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Maxout
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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2018, 12:34:23 PM »

It looks like a lot of MotionRC’s suppliers have had enough of them claiming to have done more than they have.
You can look at some of my post here on HIP to see the many engineering issues I’ve had with MotionRC. I’m just one customer. I can just imagine dealing with them as their supplier is all but overwhelming!
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=39263671&postcount=1165

I find it really enlightening that you posted that link so that only that post shows up. A perusal of the rest of the thread shows it to be inter-company bickering, and likely typical Chinese manufacturer lies. Nice job Konrad. I seem to remember your initial disciplining on another forum was related to this specific issue. But of course you get to come here and go on in the no-rules environment we enjoy here.

Remind me, how many forums have you been banned from for this behavior?
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Konrad
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« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2018, 01:40:16 PM »

I find it really enlightening that you posted that link so that only that post shows up. A perusal of the rest of the thread shows it to be inter-company bickering, and likely typical Chinese manufacturer lies. Nice job Konrad. I seem to remember your initial disciplining on another forum was related to this specific issue. But of course you get to come here and go on in the no-rules environment we enjoy here.

Remind me, how many forums have you been banned from for this behavior?
Maxout,
I post to show that the firm MotionRC is having difficulties getting another source to validate their claims. I post the singe post to save anyone from having to dig through the whole thread. I encourage everyone to open the link and read the whole thread and take note of the participants.

What specific issue are you referencing? That I don't take a firm's word or claims at face value. (THAT IS TRUE!)

I don't know about "typical Chinese manufacturer lies", but I do have first hand experience with the fraudulent practices of MotionRC.

I'm sorry I should have posted links to my engineering issues with MotionRC. Sorry here are some of them. I'm sure we could find a plethora of others , but I think you get the idea.
http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=21197.0
http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=21846.0
http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=21935.0

And as to my banning, I think it is up to 5 or so forums that I've been banned from. And yes these banning are for not supporting the forum sponsors, or showing reverence for the management of the forum (AKA; Not turning a blind eye to despicable management practices). If you think I have violated the posting guidelines of HIP please let RATZ know.

Please don't think that the management of most forums are benevolent or even intelligent creatures. They like all management have unstated agendas which govern their actions.

But as HIP does not take money for ad space, and I haven't used language deemed inappropriate, I'm still here.

I agree it is often unpleasant to read about despicable firms and their practices.

Maxout,
There is no honor keeping quiet about despicable firm or their actions. The membership of HIP deserves to know the truth. Firms like MotionRC and others spends a great deal of energy and resources cultivating an image, that when examined in detail is just down right deceptive.

Now true I don't try show or state that I'm giving these firms an unbiased review. After all they have the power to drive the discussion and the direction of these discussion with their ad money. It is our ability to bring these poor practices to light that was the promise of the information highway.

If you feel that I've been in error with my assessment of any of the hobby product and service providers I welcome a deeper discussion. True I'm not trying to give an unbiased account. I only report on firms I've dealt with. And I post to support my assessment of these firms, both the positive and unfortunately the negative aspects of these firms.

Now I thought I gave MotionRC a bone in that I did say; "MotionRC may be good with parts support. This is more than one can say about many firms". But it is "MY" experience that if one needs anything more than this, it would be best to look elsewhere. MotionRC is no engineering house.

All the best,
Friends don't let friends fly nickel,
Konrad

Edit: to add links.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 01:57:47 PM by Konrad » Logged

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Maxout
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« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2018, 11:52:19 AM »

And as to my banning, I think it is up to 5 or so forums that I've been banned from. And yes these banning are for not supporting the forum sponsors, or showing reverence for the management of the forum (AKA; Not turning a blind eye to despicable management practices).

This is blatantly false. Your banning from Flite Test had absolutely nothing to do with sponsors. You attacked a person's personal beliefs on there following serious warnings for multiple infractions, none of which had a blessed thing to do with sponsors. How do I know this? One of the individuals who participated in banning you there is a personal friend of mine.

Your banning from MotionRC's forums also had nothing to do with your criticism of them - it's public knowledge that you created multiple accounts on their forum. Tell me, did you do this on rcgroups too?
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Konrad
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« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2018, 05:09:57 PM »

And as to my banning, I think it is up to 5 or so forums that I've been banned from. And yes these banning are for not supporting the forum sponsors, or showing reverence for the management of the forum (AKA; Not turning a blind eye to despicable management practices).

This is blatantly false. Your banning from Flite Test had absolutely nothing to do with sponsors. You attacked a person's personal beliefs on there following serious warnings for multiple infractions, none of which had a blessed thing to do with sponsors. How do I know this? One of the individuals who participated in banning you there is a personal friend of mine.

Your banning from MotionRC's forums also had nothing to do with your criticism of them - it's public knowledge that you created multiple accounts on their forum. Tell me, did you do this on rcgroups too?
Flight Test (FT) I had forgotten about them.

I was banned because I didn’t hold the management in any reverence. I did call out a member for crediting his gods with the accomplishments of man. I told him do not credit his gods with my hard earned accomplishments.  I though that was a violation of the inclusivity, that I thought FT stood for.

I was in deep, but civil, discussions with the moderators behind the scenes  and thought there was no real issue as long as theology was kept out of the discussion of things dealing with flight. In fact I thought any discussion of theology was inappropriate on the FT forum.

I was at a bit of a loss as to why “Flying Monkey” was so upset with my calling out MotionRC. I since learned that FT was in discussion with MotionRC to be their supplier of EDF systems. FT was pressured or felt that they needed to suppress this kind of discussion about MotionRC. “Flying Monkey” has heavily edited many of my posts. Yet has not noted these changes. Very unethical!!!
http://forum.flitetest.com/showthread.php?34897-A-Rant-over-MotionRC


My banning from Hobby Squawk is directly related to my questioning most if not all their management actions. First I questioned Aros implementation  of the moderation staff without posted guidelines, I call out one of their staff (Grossman 56) for making dangerous (highly unsafe) flying recommendations*, I gave honest customer feedback about the dropping of RCinformer  for their in-house flight videos. The list of concerns I had with MotionRC pushed Tom the owner to ban me rather than address these issue and make a better firm.

I came back after proper guidelines had been posted as KJD, and never violated any of them. I came back as Aspirin after getting an invite. I was banned under Aspirin for questioning MotionRC, asking how they defined customer service. Tom really isn’t ready to address the core issue with the new internet hiring model he is using. Many of the folks working customer issues have no training.  For example Matt sent me this to address the over controlling of the Mirage 2000.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrZtgDckD74
The issue wasn’t the lack of a gyro. And blaming the USA government, is no reason to buy Chinese foam. Politics and theology are not to be discussed with the customer that is the first rule of customer service. No customer should be asked to suffer the ill thought out dribble at the end of the U-Tube link!

Tom did say there was no actionable reason for my banning, other than I made the community feel uncomfortable, precious snow flakes!


On RCGoofs I’ve had these account;
 “Konratz”, lost the password after an ISP change
 “Konrad” Banned because I refused to agree with the Jims to lay off my critical critiques of OS engines and the business practices of OS engines the firm. I asked how they RCgroups where going to level the field about the ignorant posts (lack of engineering back up) against Sanye manufacturing. If they were going to suppress my highly critical assessment of OS engine
Came back as “IXLR8” asking that all emails from RCGroops be stopped.
Came back as “KJD” afterJason said it was the account that was banned not the person. Graham did not agree!

So if you take a look at the under lying causes for my banning they all have one theme in common; I don’t support management outside of their stated goal, supporting of vendors and sponsors.
I am very proud of my posting record. I love being in the face of hypocrisy.

*Since learned that “Grossman 56” is a low time flier and was taken on to actually generate parts sales giving out questionable advice.

Maxout,

If you actually have any detailed information from the perspective of the moderation staff of these forums in question I’d like to learn about it, maybe through a PM. The idea that I’m to act a certain way because the powers that be said so, doesn’t fly with me. Management needs to clearly state the guidelines. And how these guidelines have been violated.


Back to this thread. MotionRC in no engineering house. Has anybody freely admitted to hiring MotonRC to do any engineering? Market feedback is not product engineering in my book!
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 05:31:50 PM by Konrad » Logged

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Maxout
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« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2018, 09:33:06 AM »

Flight Test (FT) I had forgotten about them.

I was banned because I didn’t hold the management in any reverence. I did call out a member for crediting his gods with the accomplishments of man. I told him do not credit his gods with my hard earned accomplishments.  I though that was a violation of the inclusivity, that I thought FT stood for.

I was in deep, but civil, discussions with the moderators behind the scenes  and thought there was no real issue as long as theology was kept out of the discussion of things dealing with flight. In fact I thought any discussion of theology was inappropriate on the FT forum.

I was at a bit of a loss as to why “Flying Monkey” was so upset with my calling out MotionRC. I since learned that FT was in discussion with MotionRC to be their supplier of EDF systems. FT was pressured or felt that they needed to suppress this kind of discussion about MotionRC. “Flying Monkey” has heavily edited many of my posts. Yet has not noted these changes. Very unethical!!!
http://forum.flitetest.com/showthread.php?34897-A-Rant-over-MotionRC

1. Blatantly false (again), but we'll go through the rebuttal anyway because it's fun.
2. Flying Monkey is a personal friend of mine. He couldn't give a rat's behind about MotionRC. He does not, however, tolerate personal attacks and character assassination. You did both. His editing of your posts is his prerogative. You violated the rules, and that gives him full leeway to do whatever he wants to your posts.
3. If you think that it's ok to engage in an obscene, vitriolic attack on someone's personal beliefs on a forum, you have given up any moral high ground in this entire discussion. If you think that someone shouldn't even be allowed to reference their beliefs on a forum, then frankly I can't help you. I'm glad they banned you. In fact, I personally recommended your banning. Yes, that's right, I did. Flying Monkey did not, however ban you. Someone else did.

4. Nice job making excuses for your many aliases. Trolling is trolling.
5. By your own admission you refuse to play by the rules. But somehow you're the good guy. Well done.
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Konrad
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« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2018, 12:24:56 PM »

1. Blatantly false (again), but we'll go through the rebuttal anyway because it's fun.
2. Flying Monkey is a personal friend of mine. He couldn't give a rat's behind about MotionRC. He does not, however, tolerate personal attacks and character assassination. You did both. His editing of your posts is his prerogative. You violated the rules, and that gives him full leeway to do whatever he wants to your posts.
3. If you think that it's ok to engage in an obscene, vitriolic attack on someone's personal beliefs on a forum, you have given up any moral high ground in this entire discussion. If you think that someone shouldn't even be allowed to reference their beliefs on a forum, then frankly I can't help you. I'm glad they banned you. In fact, I personally recommended your banning. Yes, that's right, I did. Flying Monkey did not, however ban you. Someone else did.

4. Nice job making excuses for your many aliases. Trolling is trolling.
5. By your own admission you refuse to play by the rules. But somehow you're the good guy. Well done.

Maxout,
You are diffusing the topic, which is the engineering merits of MotionRC. I from personal experience can say they have none. And I’m showing with this thread that other firms are also not buying into MotionRC’s claim of being involved in the engineering development of their products.  Market development maybe, but surely not engineering input.

As to FT, telling a person not to impose his believe system (Giving his gods credit for man’s accomplishments) on others is not an attack on the belief system. Telling a guy to make piece with his gods for lying is not an attack on his belief system. An attack on him maybe, but not his theological beliefs.  

I did say there was no need to evoke Christian or any other theology to explain the real word of lift and drag, (AKA Flight).

If I had known the guy was a snot nosed kid I would have handled things a bit different.

I was banned for not giving Flying Monkey (Fred?) the respect he felt he deserved after he accused me of ONLY posting negative aspect of vendors. I showed he was in error by linking to multiple thread on his forum which praised reputable firm. I chastised him for telling me how I should enjoy this hobby. That was why I was banned.

Pointing out that MotionRC was engaged in an activity that in most states is criminal and very dangerous (texting {video} recording while driving) and was an indication of their commitment to the safety of the community at large, and did not violate any FT posted rules.

I gladly follow the posted rules. But it is when forum management* tries to change them to direct the conversation elsewhere that I resist management.  Trying to protect MotionRC was beyond the pale.

If multiple accounts over time is trolling, so be it.

Yes, the management of forums can and should be able to edit the post. But it is unethical to do so without acknowledging that they have indeed edited the post. Doing the editing as the moderation staff did at FT makes it look like their words or worse their sentiments are mine. That is unethical and again an indication of their moral backbone.

Thank you for the recommendation. FT being a fax Christian organization, I really don’t want to support them. I wasn’t aware of their bias when I signed up.

*Not just forum management but often government agencies, my arrest record shows this Angry ! Yes, I'm a thorn in the side of many agencies.

All the best,
Konrad

Edit: To add member's quote
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 01:05:51 PM by Konrad » Logged

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Bill G
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« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2018, 08:37:17 PM »


This is blatantly false. Your banning from Flite Test had absolutely nothing to do with sponsors. You attacked a person's personal beliefs on there following serious warnings for multiple infractions, none of which had a blessed thing to do with sponsors. How do I know this? One of the individuals who participated in banning you there is a personal friend of mine.

Your banning from MotionRC's forums also had nothing to do with your criticism of them - it's public knowledge that you created multiple accounts on their forum. Tell me, did you do this on rcgroups too?
If you're implying that somehow forum staff at those sites enact fair and just bans, you can count me out.  
Whatever you're implying, it's disturbing when a person even brings up those topics, in attempts to paint a negative image of any individual.  

Since it seems okay however:
Name:
Maxout
Posts:
2,604 (0.705 per day)
Position:
Titanium Member
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84
Date Registered:
January 30, 2008, 11:41:19 PM
Last Active:
Today at 09:33:06 AM
Ignored by:
4 members

As of now, I'm ignored by 0, unless someone changes that.  Would certainly be quite a coincidence.

Trolling is trolling.
Yes it is.

FT being a fax Christian organization, I really don’t want to support them. I wasn’t aware of their bias when I signed up.
Seems they were an HK extension.  Definitely was some bias there.
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Maxout
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« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2018, 11:55:55 AM »

If you're implying that somehow forum staff at those sites enact fair and just bans, you can count me out.  

Fine. I couldn't care less. I happens that I know most of their staff personally. Their bans are 100% reasoned out and usually decided by extensive discussion among the forum staff, most of whom are not paid for their services. Further, most of them aren't religious, and many of those same openly mock religion in their personal lives. They definitely aren't biased toward anyone's products given the criticism many of them have even levied again Flite Test's own products and business practices.

Whatever you're implying, it's disturbing when a person even brings up those topics, in attempts to paint a negative image of any individual.  

Whatever you're implying, it's disturbing when a person even brings up a targeted attack against a company, in attempts to paint a negative image of any company. (especially when they have been banned from multiple other well respected forums for doing so). See what I did there?

And if it's so disturbing, why did you attempt it below?

Since it seems okay however:
Name:
Maxout
Posts:
2,604 (0.705 per day)
Position:
Titanium Member
Kudos:
84
Date Registered:
January 30, 2008, 11:41:19 PM
Last Active:
Today at 09:33:06 AM
Ignored by:
4 members

As of now, I'm ignored by 0, unless someone changes that.  Would certainly be quite a coincidence.

Fine, play that game if you want. I've been a member of this forum since just after it began (8th registered user), am its 12th most active member, and have yet to receive a disciplinary note from any of its moderators or staff. That I've been ignored by a few is probably a hint that I've actually accomplished something here. Can you say the same of yourself?

But since you want to bring up ignoring, I see that Pit, Pete Fardell, and OZPAF are all ignored by 3. In fact most of the top 15 posters are ignored by 2 or more. I also have a higher kudos count than most of the folks with higher post count than me. Whatever that means. Maybe there's a correlation between kudos and ignores? Could be!
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Konrad
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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2018, 01:41:46 PM »

Thank you Bill,

I hope we all make some question their position, maybe even make them uncomfortable. That is what knowledge does. It is why so many oppressive regimes fear the inteligencia and students. They (teachers and students) question the status quo, and this makes governance difficult wether it is a nation of a forum.

I actually look at a zero number with suspicion as it is an indication (not proof) that one is not willing to engage in controversy, or try to bring a point home.

You and I have had some intense discussions, and I know I’ve come out of the exchange better for it. I know that for some this kind of exchange would have one or the other on an ignore level. I see I have a one count on my ignore notice.

As to Flight Test I wasn’t there long and honestly had forgotten about the forum, mainly because I had discounted them for their theological bent. I think much of the issue there is that I have little or no use for the gods or FT. I think I have addressed the issue that Maxout tried to use to defuse the MotionRC debacle. That is Maxout’s attempt to shoot the messenger. But as you so eloquently pointed out, is not the topic of this thread.

I like you fail to see how my posting history has any bearing on the validity of problems many have with firms like OS Engines or MotionRC. In this thread I pointed out that a firm (Dynam or bitgo) has publicly chastised MotionRC for misrepresenting their engineering reliance on MotionRC.

Bill, again thank you for standing up.

All the best,
Konrad
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« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2018, 02:43:27 PM »

Due to a number of complaints I have locked this topic.

Bruce
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