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Author Topic: My first F1D  (Read 7350 times)
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Olbill
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« Reply #75 on: January 21, 2019, 04:27:58 PM »

Sometimes i "know" a fact; it has come from a reputable source but I don't get it. It may take some time for the explanation to come clear in my mind and to sink-in. Perhaps anther experience triggers the information making sense.

Exactly. Then one of two things are likely to happen. Either it dawns on you what they are talking about or you find a better way.
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Skymon
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« Reply #76 on: January 22, 2019, 04:10:01 AM »

What did I learn?
If I look at the new processes I learnt as I built the F1D, then I don’t see that many. My build log of the F1R is filled with lessons learnt, while the F1D is less so.
The F1R was a lot harder, the materials are fragile, the dimensions are smaller and the whole thing is critically based on weight reduction.
The F1D was more a lesson in neatness and control. The min weight is achievable if you take care and the materials are all much more robust than F1R. As a result I think the F1D is a model that anyone who's got some experience with indoor models can build.
I approached the project with trepidation, there is a lot of info on the web about F1D. It’s the big international class, there’s a lot at stake. The indoor flying crowd are masterfully adept at sharing information, there is no attempt to hide the latest developments; everyone shares.
This plethora of info makes it a little intimidating to actually get going. Which route do I take?
In the end I just chose a nice looking plan that had been published. It was reasonably up to date and I like the shape.
There were a few things on the plan that I wasn’t sure about, I ignored them and did something different, usually after asking for the advice of the whole F1D crowd.

The first thing I learnt is something I always champion and yet I found it hard. Just get stuck in.
Make something and if it’s not to your liking, do it again.

Starting with flying surfaces I learnt that masking the ribs off when spraying adhesive helps. The film finds its own way and those diagonal spiders web creases tend to be less prevalent. I needed to make big frames, these need to nice and rigid. Gluing a handle to the part to be dropped on the film really does help, just remember to remove it after.

Of the surfaces I covered the wing was fine, the stab is flappy and saggy and I will probably make another, it’s overweight anyhow.

Regarding rolled balsa tubes I applied lessons learnt in the F1R construction. A tip from Bob Bailey meant I switched to Duco rather than UHU. He mentioned that it grabbed better. It did.
Lining up posts in all directions is important to me. I love a bit of neatness. I took my time here and teased the holes in the stick to make sure I was 90 degrees up and 90 degrees along when attaching wing posts. Use a square and check and check again.

Adding boron to everything was intimidating but actually not too much bother. It isn’t a great feature as I see it popping off here and there, so it’s a constant task to check each and every addition and glue down any that come loose. Hopefully as carbon fibre increases in use the boron will decrease.

I hit my usual problem, I built too robust, especially in the prop area. There’s a lot of work in a prop and I wanted to make sure it wasn’t going to let me down.
In the end it was pretty heavy and I have started another one, as I did for F1R. Took me four goes there…

I have added the web up the front and also added small tissue wraps around the motor tube and boom ends to stop them flaring on insertion.

That's about it.
Have a go.

I added a picture of my kitchen that I have been building along side the F1D.
I don't expect the kitchen to fly.
Si
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Re: My first F1D
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 04:24:16 AM by Skymon » Logged
Uggy
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« Reply #77 on: January 23, 2019, 11:49:43 AM »

Hi Skymon;

Thank's for the informations you keep sharing. This is very helpful.


> Starting with flying surfaces I learnt that masking the ribs off when spraying adhesive helps.

Can you please describe a bit more how you are masking ribs ?

> A tip from Bob Bailey meant I switched to Duco rather than UHU. He mentioned that it grabbed better. It did.

Do you mean for all parts, or only for rolled balsa tubes with a possible different stress ?

I have read an article from Bob in 2014 saying "I now use Duco or UHU thinned with an equal volume of acetone for
most joints including attaching boron; it has excellent contact strength almost from the instant of making the joint"
So I'm a bit confused.. and need to know if I have to go for Duco (which I will do if you confirm it's better)

So jumping on that to have experts thoughts/confirmation on current formula for Duco/Uhu


Thank you
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Olbill
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« Reply #78 on: January 23, 2019, 03:33:49 PM »

I use Duco for almost everything.
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Tmat
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« Reply #79 on: January 23, 2019, 05:11:35 PM »

I use Duco for almost everything.
Toothpaste Bill?

Tmat - well, maybe not everything
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F1B guy...
But don't hold that against me!
Skymon
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« Reply #80 on: January 24, 2019, 02:53:12 AM »

I masked the ribs by placing a couple of pieces of paper over each one.
I cut a some strips about 15mm wide, folded them on the centre to make a V shape, turned them over and placed over the ribs.
By placing one over the other I can make a rudimentary extendible mask.
Simple as that.

I found DUCO to grab better than UHU or Humbrol.
All of them work though, I built my F1R with Humbrol.
DUCO seemed to grab quicker and set faster.

I mix 50/50 with acetone for most things.

Regards
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Uggy
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« Reply #81 on: January 24, 2019, 04:49:42 AM »

Hi Skymon

OK, I was thinking at first you were masking side of the ribs, keeping top of the ribs exposed to adhesive. Seems not the case.
Not sure ton understand the process here, you spray adhesive on LE/TE only, and then how do you glue film to ribs ?

Thank's!
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Skymon
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« Reply #82 on: January 24, 2019, 06:11:13 AM »

Hiya
The film sticks to the outline of the wing/stab/fin.
If you've not covered an indoor with OS film before then I'd suggest you have a look at the videos on YOUTUBE that explain the process.
I've not really mentioned it on this build as it is well covered in detail on other threads and in INAV and online.

Here's Josh showing how it's done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqR7_C1wO88&t=537s

S
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Olbill
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« Reply #83 on: January 24, 2019, 11:20:20 AM »

I don't glue the film to the ribs.
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Uggy
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« Reply #84 on: January 24, 2019, 01:18:03 PM »

Hi,

I have covered in the past with Y2K and 3M77 (and was gluing the ribs Smiley )

The other articles [1] I have read about film gluing (and the Josh's video too) do glue the film on the ribs too.
This is why I was surprised some are masking ribs and asked for more details on this.
I learned now it is possible to not glue ribs (without impacting flight). Thank's for sharing. That's indeed new to me. I will look deeper on this now.

[1] Kang / Mark Bennett / Ray Harlan
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Skymon
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« Reply #85 on: January 25, 2019, 02:54:38 AM »

I saw someone somewhere say they masked ribs and I also saw a picture of someone using the post-it note reference tabs to do it.
I think possibly on the facebook groups.
I pondered why they might be doing this and then when I made a poor attempt at covering my stab I realised that a saggy covering may benefit from sticky ribs, but a more even one would actually be hindered because it would be constrained on contact.

I think if you cover loose, and some people do, then the rib contact would hold the surface shape together better.
But if you cover tighter then the ability to move slightly on the ribs helps make the surface more even.

It might be worth a topic on it to get input from the real experts rather than me and my paltry single plane ever opinions Smiley
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Uggy
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« Reply #86 on: January 26, 2019, 05:58:10 AM »

Thank's for the additional informations shared.
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