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Author Topic: Froglite/Yeoman All-Sheet Gloster Gladiator  (Read 1094 times)
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Jack Plane
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« on: April 24, 2018, 01:16:13 PM »

Inspired by Jimbo Darby's all-sheet Froglite Bird Dog http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=23056.msg224328#msg224328 (which fantastically placed 9th in Kit Scale a week ago!), and as the Kid is very interested in CO2 as a power-source (it was he who originally pressed me to start doing it myself!), we've chosed a Froglite (Yeoman) Gloster Gladiator for him to build: http://www.parmodels.com/hales-frogflite-yeoman-quick-build-all-balsa-sheet.html

The Glad is 14.75" span and the Paul Bradley re-design is based on using two sheets of 1/32" laminated for each part (rather than the single 1/16" in the original kits) so that surfaces have colour on both sides.  Colour can either be printed directly onto the balsa (but not on my printer!) or first onto iron-on film for T-shirts which we've now purchased: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Inkjet-Iron-Transfers-Paper-Shirt/dp/B000W4H606/ref=pd_nav_hcs_bia_i_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=9DR7QT25MP5D9GAWR47Q

As I'm donating a Telco power-plant which weighs 13g plus prop, it seems sensible to enlarge the size by 22% to 18" span.  This will preclude the model from KS competitions, but the primary aim is to get the Kid building and flying - outdoors if necessary - this summer!

A rough estimate of airframe weight (using light balsa!) for the fairly small original size is 30g plus 15g for the Telco etc.  With a wing-area of 74 sq in this gives a loading of 0.61g/sq in, which isn't that bad really.  To grow it to 18" span requires enlarging part areas (but not thickness) by 22%, which increases the airframe weight by 45% to 43.5g, so 58.5g AUW including Telco etc, to give a wing area of 114 sq in and a lighter loading of 0.52g/sq in!

So much for the planning.  Now to clear his half-built VMC Jodel off his model-table into a shoe-box until later, and get printing the parts...!  Smiley

Photos of a completed model below from Bradley website, and example of the reverse parts pattern (so irons onto the balsa the correct way).

Jon
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Froglite/Yeoman All-Sheet Gloster Gladiator
Froglite/Yeoman All-Sheet Gloster Gladiator
Froglite/Yeoman All-Sheet Gloster Gladiator
Froglite/Yeoman All-Sheet Gloster Gladiator
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danmellor
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« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2018, 04:49:40 AM »

When I was about 14, I found a TV & Radio repair shop on the outskirts of Chesterfield that had a stash of modelling stuff that was untouched since the '60s. I bought what I was most interested in and could afford at the time, but I would have bought the lot if I could. There was a pretty much full set of these kits....

Cheers,

Dan.
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OZPAF
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« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2018, 04:59:58 AM »

What fun - it looks a great little model.

John
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2018, 05:21:40 AM »

Having huge frustrations with bench-testing the Telco.  It is virtually mint, but there's a crack in the black plastic filler housing which I've repeatedly failed to mend, and/or the O-ring isn't sealing?  Sad

If I can't fix it (or find another good working Telco or find and swap over a filler housing from an old one), then we're considering building it at the original 15" size and fitting a Gasparin G-43, which is half the weight of the Telco and should just work to keep the loading down... so long as its got enough grunt?

Any advice on mending the Telco, or anyone got an old one I can strip for parts?  Or a working one?

Jon
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SP250
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« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2018, 05:43:03 AM »

Jon

I have some bits salvaged many years ago from the Humbrol and other CO2 motors. 
There is a brass screwed filler with brass tube which you can solder into the tank fitting that you are welcome to.
Can put in the post today or tomorrow if you want, might get you out of trouble.

Cheers John M
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danmellor
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« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2018, 10:47:04 AM »

I'll see what I can find...

Dan.
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2018, 11:31:07 AM »

John - that would be brilliant - I've already sussed how to solder and de-solder fine brass tube.

Dan - that would also be super!

Cheers
Jon
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« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2018, 09:59:00 AM »

Many thanks for the model! I will one day build.
Also I'm going to make a new engine for CO2 under this model.
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2018, 03:03:53 PM »

Jon

I have some bits salvaged many years ago from the Humbrol and other CO2 motors. 
There is a brass screwed filler with brass tube which you can solder into the tank fitting that you are welcome to.
Can put in the post today or tomorrow if you want, might get you out of trouble.

Cheers John M

Thanks so much John, arrived in the post at the weekend!  Smiley
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2018, 04:37:47 PM »

In the meantime...

Because I didn't have much 1/16" balsa in wide enough sheets, but plenty in narrower sheets, and because I had the Kid at the weekend and he was keen to make a start (kids eh?!), we printed out the colour files onto iron-on sheets for the standard sized 15" Glad.  This will get the Gasparin G-43 and if it flies okay can be kept in good nick as his indoor KS entry for later on.  But, as an enlarged 18" version would suit the hopefully-soon-to-be-working Telco, so I'll also make this myself (or perhaps an 18" Hawker Fury?) as well for us to have general purpose summer fun outdoors.

So, once the A4 colour sheets were printed, individual parts - starting with the largest components, i.e. the wings and tail parts - were cut out.  These were then ironed onto the balsa and when cool the backing was peeled off.  Then the parts were ironed again with a silicone sheet over the top to fix the print, and finally cut out.  I did the initial layout work, but he was keen to help with some of the ironing and cutting out, which is good.


Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Froglite/Yeoman All-Sheet Gloster Gladiator
Re: Froglite/Yeoman All-Sheet Gloster Gladiator
Re: Froglite/Yeoman All-Sheet Gloster Gladiator
Re: Froglite/Yeoman All-Sheet Gloster Gladiator
Re: Froglite/Yeoman All-Sheet Gloster Gladiator
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2018, 04:43:36 PM »

Because the sheets have been designed for printing (or ironing) onto 1/32" sheet which would then be laminated, but because we are going straight onto 1/16", those surfaces which have print on the reverse side (e.g. lower wing and fin/rudder) needed to have the second side print cut exactly to size after the first side was done and at final size, then ironed on.

The Kid will be back here the weekend after next, so this will give me time to make the rest of the parts (including all the fiddly little ones!) ready for him to start assembling.

 Cheesy

PS - the keen-eyed will have spotted that our chosed 1/16" sheets had a density of 1.8g/sq in (nice and light), and this involved a bit of measuring, weighing, calculating and selecting before we started the ironing - all stuff that the techie-mathy Kid enjoyed!

PPS - Some of his cutting-out could have been a little tidier(!) buy hey-ho the Kid did well enough!... and I'm sure I've got a spare emery-board lying around somewhere....!
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Froglite/Yeoman All-Sheet Gloster Gladiator
Re: Froglite/Yeoman All-Sheet Gloster Gladiator
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OZPAF
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« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2018, 07:11:32 PM »

That's really neat Jack. Great stuff and an enthusiastic young worker as well.

John
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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2018, 11:25:39 AM »

Hi, Great project, any video of it flying? Thanks, Mike
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2018, 01:00:32 PM »

Unfortunately he keeps going off the boil - model making isn't his natural interest, and I don't want to push him too hard just because I'm into the hobby!  Maybe a nudge after Christmas when he's back for the rest of the school holidays from the ex...?
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« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2018, 06:55:19 PM »

Well good luck with that Jack. I'm interested to see how it turns out.

John
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2018, 04:04:16 AM »

John, its not that he's not interested as such.  He indeed is, but as a theoretician with charmingly-wide interests rather than as a maker with the curiosity and capacity to see a long-term job through. (It doesn't help that he lives mainly with his mum, has 2.5hrs on the school-bus each day, plus a full-spate of homework.)  That's why his previous model, the VMC Sparrowhawk sports flyier - which in fact flies brilliantly - took two or three pushes, over a very long period of time and with obvious help from me, to complete.

Yesterday we went to do chores in town where I picked up a copy of AeroModeller, and he shot straight to the article on rocketry.  Then in the evening, he was again deep into my copy of Frank Kermode's 'Flight Without Formulae'*.  This morning I've promised to let him use my small soldering-iron to make a simple pen torch he designed before supper.

Jon

* Re-reading the Amazon reviews of this book, I was pointed to A.E. Gordon's 'Structures: Or Why Things Don't Fall Down' which I've just ordered as a book to share.
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OZPAF
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« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2018, 04:27:10 AM »

Jack I hope you didn't think I was being critical. It seems to me that you are doing a great job and I agree you can only provide the exposure and your own interest.

It takes a lot of patience on the part of the teacher and it is difficult to draw the line between a friendly push and excessive pushing.

However it's good to see that he is keen on understanding "why" and also likes using his hands on his own projects.

Anyway all the best - I enjoy these father son efforts here on HPA as being a bachelor my only contact with teaching young fellows (8-12) model building has been with our Australian Air League and although that was very draining at times, dads have a lot more to contend with.

Cheers
John



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Andrew Darby
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« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2018, 04:37:37 AM »

* Re-reading the Amazon reviews of this book, I was pointed to A.E. Gordon's 'Structures: Or Why Things Don't Fall Down' which I've just ordered as a book to share.

It is a very good book that...  there a few pages on the wing failures of the Fokker D8...

Andrew
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2018, 04:59:12 AM »

No worries John, didn't take your original comment as a criticism.

I came a bit late to being a dad and it remains both interesting and challenging  Lips sealed

One analogy:  I was always struck by how much Andre Aggassi hated tennis.  He was pushed unbelievably hard by his (no doubt well-meaning) father from an extremely early age: as a toddler made to constantly chase tennis balls lobbed around the house.  At a sport level his game gave pleasure to millions of spectators and amateurs, but his achievement came at a huge personal cost.  He is now a great ambassador for education and the encouragement of individual ambition, but in a healthier and more wholesome way: http://www.agassifoundation.org/about/.

The lesson for me as a parent is to expose the kid to wide opportunity, and encourage effort in those areas that grab his imagination and resonate with his nature... but jolly well practice your trumpet and learn that French vocab before you're even remotely let loose with my soldering iron!!  Grin

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Jack Plane
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« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2018, 05:02:13 AM »


It is a very good book that...  there a few pages on the wing failures of the Fokker D8...

Andrew

But not at around 30g AUW... might there be a kit in the making....?!  Grin
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Andrew Darby
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« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2018, 06:08:47 AM »

The lesson for me as a parent is to expose the kid to wide opportunity, and encourage effort in those areas that grab his imagination and resonate with his nature... but jolly well practice your trumpet and learn that French vocab before you're even remotely let loose with my soldering iron!!  Grin

Too true!  Same with my two.  And keeping their bedrooms tidy!

Andrew
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« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2018, 06:57:45 PM »

Quote
Quote from: Jack Plane on Today at 04:04:16 AM

* Re-reading the Amazon reviews of this book, I was pointed to A.E. Gordon's 'Structures: Or Why Things Don't Fall Down' which I've just ordered as a book to share.


It is a very good book that...  there a few pages on the wing failures of the Fokker D8...

It's an interesting and informative book I agree. Everything from cellular structures to Roman Catapults and attachment plate design for composite wing roots.

Well recommended.

John
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