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Author Topic: P-30 Spitfire Build  (Read 1653 times)
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Bigbandito
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« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2018, 12:27:11 PM »

For the sake of posterity, here's the flight video from the Gultekin-Kalay build from this plan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqATqXS735s.

And here's the link to the build thread referenced in Reply #21 and Reply #23 of this thread: https://www.modelyapiyorum.com/model-ucak/spitfire-p30-gultekin-kalay/
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Bigbandito
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« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2018, 05:28:30 PM »

Quote
Never could understand why model airplane "designers" use curved stripwood spars, other than visual "appeal".

I assume it's so that the spar is always at a certain % along the chord of the wing.  That way if the spar has an aerodynamic effect, the effect is consistent along the span.

Particularly important for cracked ribs, I imagine.


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« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2018, 07:27:17 PM »

Bandito you hit the nail on the head there. You have to have a curved spar to maintain a uniform airfoil in this case. Good thinking.
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Bigbandito
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« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2018, 01:55:12 PM »

More work on the stab today. Built the fuselage saddle and located the stab key.

Added the top sheeting and the turbulator. Should have added the turbulator before gluing the the stab key in.  The proper order is 1) build stab saddle, 2) cut out and shape stab key, 3) cut slots for key and test fit, add top sheeting, 4) add turbulator, 5) glue stab key.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180707/82068b00d38769e7c2cf4320b38b635f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180707/b6edbe82ed3b12368c679c7ccddd99fd.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180707/3fadda13f1c81418ad19f89c9b202297.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180707/0620fa1be9795d701b6cf8082ccddf7c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180707/16b6f6b3fb9cd10a5eabd1dc422c1735.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180707/b9a2d5cc65e07d8bda86a2816d0fafda.jpg


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« Last Edit: July 07, 2018, 02:21:25 PM by Bigbandito » Logged

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« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2018, 02:00:03 PM »

Laid up the wing LE lamination. Couldn’t find any 3/16 x 1/16. Since a good bit of the part will be sanded away to create the LE airfoil I’m using two 1/4 x 1/16s and one 1/8 x 1/16.

Soaked in 50/50 ammonia water for an hour. Thinned Titebond spread between the parts. Magnets placed strategically to create the appropriate bend shape.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180707/909ef58a77270802b94d9c903ab56a39.jpg
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« Last Edit: July 07, 2018, 02:41:00 PM by Bigbandito » Logged

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Bigbandito
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« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2018, 02:37:43 PM »

I’m noticing lots of extra glue and dirt in the pictures I posted. I need to work on my neatness. If you’re using this thread as reference for your own P-30 Spitfire build I hope you do a better job than I did.   Wink Cheesy Grin
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« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2018, 02:41:23 PM »

No worries Bandito we are watching this thing. We won't let you go wrong. I have a suggestion though.... buy some 1/2" magnet tape you will find 100's of uses for it!
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« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2018, 02:52:29 PM »

Thanks Crabby.


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« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2018, 05:51:43 PM »

Test fitting the tail parts while the LE laminations dry. The bottom part of the rudder that mates up with the stab and fuselage doesn’t seem to fit as drawn. I had to move the cutout for the turbulator forward and add sheet to the back bottom part of the rudder.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180707/c309674366f63cdde106057c7e77bc1c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180707/a67550e8c74031441e3c3d4693b094f2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180707/cbddef6a3df9c4fd68b2a264a9ca76f8.jpg

It’s starting to look like an airplane!

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« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2018, 07:31:27 PM »

Bigbandito -

I am really enjoying following your build thread.  Keep up the good work.
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« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2018, 01:04:35 AM »

What an interesting way to build a P30. Waiting for it's test flights. Nice work.

John
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Bigbandito
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« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2018, 09:39:42 AM »

Thanks all.


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Bigbandito
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« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2018, 01:33:35 PM »

Building up the left wing today. Don’t forget to shim the tip (at the “X” on W2) for washout before you add top ribs and diagonals.

Lovin’ these cracked ribs (they’re so easy!).
 https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180708/3fb4cfcd976fa1eb992c10c7b0589a5a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180708/96d9dcc0523dcd07e5275ef647604db2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180708/f252bb2bc85bd8a4936f546ffa113bfe.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180708/5c70e05b3abe3b23f194f77ae1399e48.jpg


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« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2018, 05:20:28 PM »

Enjoying this build thread very much. I get similar wrinkly bends a lot too: if I make the strips thin enough to bend easily (so then, to laminate), they are weak and often crack. If they are too thick, they get the same wrinkles you experienced. Doesn't seem to matter whether I use ammonia or hot water.

I'd say go easy on the diagonals in the stab - remember that tail weight necessitates a far greater amount of nose weight, for setting proper CG. In other words, build light tails.
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Bigbandito
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« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2018, 07:34:00 PM »

Thanks Tubegeek.


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« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2018, 10:31:51 AM »

Made good progress on the wings yesterday. The plan is sort of vague on what the center section should look like. The wing slots on the fuselage seem to anticipate a smaller leading edge than 3/16. I used two 3/32 to match the height of the top and bottom parts of the rib. The 1/32 sheeting also would seem to make the wing more difficult to fit.

I didn’t have much time to mess with fitting it up last night but it does seem that some adjustments will be necessary. I should’ve test fit before I added the sheeting; but it was late and I was anxious to get some stability in the wing before I accidentally broke it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180709/9cff4fb18db934c51d7ca7410d13c476.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180709/393a1254d43b59a1cef762439f087c2a.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180709/552c1c143110c7f4945429f9a1f81dd1.jpg
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« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 11:35:04 AM by Bigbandito » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: July 14, 2018, 02:17:29 PM »

OK. So it’s time to ask for
Some help from some of you wizened sages.

I’ve had to do some significant modifications to even get the wing close to fitting in the space provided for it. I opened up the LE slots forward a little and cut down the under fuselage leading edge to fit. I’ve also cut the center top ribs shorter at the   TE to increase the slope to the trailing edge

While the plan shows the top ribs ending at the front of the TE, I have actually cut them at the center of the TE and sanded them down to match the airfoil. The center top ribs now end at the inside of the TE but have not been sanded (they’re covered by the sheet center piece).

As shown in the photos, while I can get the LE into the slot, it leaves the TE about 1/2” under the fuse. If I align the trailing edge in the saddle then the LE sits below the slot. It seems to me that maybe the center ribs are too high at their highest point, preventing both the LE and TE from being in the proper places at the same time.

At this point I’m concerned about doing any more surgery without advice. I don’t want to end up with the wrong wing incidence.

So what do you think I should do?

Leading edge in slot:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180714/7758bbc7c001310c62fef68270d05c42.jpg

Trailing edge 1/2” low:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180714/344cd45fb7cf144128c28fb0d3d5391c.jpg

Trailing edge where it seems to belong
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180714/a0611a869525ce20edc31a088de24923.jpg

Leading edge too low:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180714/029876ac8d29546eb1286e593738f70b.jpg

Rib apex too high (acting as The fulcrum for my wing lever)?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180714/77ebd9a24dd777e3c3309c1dd34668a3.jpg




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« Reply #42 on: July 14, 2018, 08:49:04 PM »

My approach would be to add balsa infill to the bays above the airfoil high point - where the you have gussets(which you would remove) on the angled uprights. This infill would need to be at least 1/2'' - possibly 3/4" high.

You would then need to make a card template of the top of your airfoil ensuring it matches the wing shape as accurately as possible.

Locate this on the saddle at the right incidence and trace out the new shape of the airfoil. It may be necessary to add more infill from the high point to the LE. 

Take extra care to ensure the incidence is as close as possible to the plan.

Reshape this modified saddle  to the traced outline and repeat for the other side of the fuselage.

Good luck.


John
 
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Bigbandito
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« Reply #43 on: Today at 09:36:22 AM »

Thanks for the suggestion John. I’ve actually decided to do a radically modified version of your approach - except the other way around. I’m going to build a whole new center wing section to specifically match the fuse slot.

When in doubt...rrrrrip it out! This is where the Duco/acetone will come in handy.

I built the two center cracked ribs over the plan this morning. It was harder than I expected to make two that matched. It took me an hour and a half and three tries.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180715/9cd38cee773857a6bed8b1a572aff1f1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180715/feaa7b97be85466a1856fc00670ff822.jpg
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« Reply #44 on: Today at 11:17:58 AM »

Good am bandito. I can't figure out where you or the plan went wrong. I have check the plan and everything seems to fit OK. None the less I am glad you went and found the problem areas. I want build this as soon as I can clear the bench which may be a while. Let us know exactly what the problem was, I am glad you found a cure.
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« Reply #45 on: Today at 11:26:16 AM »

Good progress made this morning. Center saddle constructed and fits perfectly. Old center section carefully de-constructed.

Construction Tip: You may notice some strange colorations in my plan and some of the parts. I absentmindedly de-constructed the old center section over the progressing new construction. I managed to spill acetone (from my souvenir Japanese single malt bottle) all over the board. I left the set up in place and let the acetone I couldn’t soak up dry on its own.

I was surprised to find the Legos melted a bit and that the structure I had built held together. It’s going to be either the weakest wing center ever built or the strongest.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180715/212fcfe1a80f7a4e7c296714f77b3c02.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180715/3afb4fc04c4ef19ee23231cedd1f5942.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180715/19a899e93462906c42ae28eeff992e33.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180715/726fa3bd4c892421062bc72470241e74.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180715/3fc66d6811713a6b54e6c78eadc0d413.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180715/18dbb2693ffce5fb95ddc8cc4cef0f9a.jpg


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« Reply #46 on: Today at 11:31:00 AM »

Good am bandito. I can't figure out where you or the plan went wrong. I have check the plan and everything seems to fit OK. None the less I am glad you went and found the problem areas. I want build this as soon as I can clear the bench which may be a while. Let us know exactly what the problem was, I am glad you found a cure.
Thanks Crabby.

As I mentioned in my first post in this thread, this is my first build from scratch. I think one of the issues that caused my problem was that I wasn’t careful enough cutting out the sheet parts.

I’ve found a number of them off a little bit. Not much, but enough to make a difference. I’ve recut a few but none for the wing. Perhaps I missed some error there.

I think the sheeting on top of the center section also adds too much height to the wing, making for an awkward fit.

Although I allowed for it in the rebuild I still had to sand the dickens out of it to get a perfect fit. I might have been able to do that with the old section but I think I would have had to sand it away to nothing. Que sera sera.

Cheers!


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« Reply #47 on: Today at 12:33:48 PM »

Testing colors for the Spit. I’ll be modeling P9398 KL-B “Kiwi” so its gonna be RAF Dark Earth and RAF Dark Green. Vinyl decals in 1:12 scale from Callie Graphics.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180715/82fcd24d71682f564350728838fb8c8c.jpeg
Rustoleum Camouflage “Army Green” for the framework that will be visible through the canopy.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180715/1812d035076cd5b7b83446774ce8f85a.jpg
Design Master Ubermatte “Beach” for the RAF Dark Earth.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180715/32ea162d8d323cc39415cf8aeb0243af.jpg
Design Master Colortool “Moss Green” for RAF Dark Green.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180715/1f9efd2c6e4876c844a289c2b727858f.jpg
Design Master Colortool “Basil” for reference. Too much yellow.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180715/1d22251cf70e704a738188f5f075a11b.jpg
Rustoleum Camouflage “Dark Green for reference. Nice, but too heavy. DM Moss Green is good enough.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180715/f205eb9702d5f653506f9253f9178f03.jpg

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