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Author Topic: Spoked Wheel print- another crazy experiment  (Read 1171 times)
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pedwards2932
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« on: July 29, 2018, 09:38:58 AM »

I was thinking of the possibility of printing a spoked wheel. I drew 1/2 wheel with spokes so you have to glue the 2 halves together.  I drew it large and scaled it to about 1 1/2 inch since this is experiment I just want to print it to see if it works. I found when I scaled it down I would need smaller nozzle so I ordered some that go all the way down to .02.  Once I print if it works I'll post a picture of the print.
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fred
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« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2018, 01:52:45 PM »

 Grin  Needing to find actual use for your Printer ?
 I have the same problem as well.
 Darned thing  has proven erm.. 'less' useful that I had anticipated.
Those wheels (yess it's an experiment) look a bit like the early style cast wheels on my motorcycle.   
Don't believe an FDM printer can manage scale Wire spokes.
  An Ambitious exercise though..
 G 'luck with your work
 
That said; Unlikely we will be seeing George K, printing  wire spoked wheels anytime soon..
 and he has demonstrated 3d printing skills that I will likely  Never equal
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billdennis747
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« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2018, 03:17:18 PM »

Is it feasible to print the hubs and rims, drill and lace them up?
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piecost
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« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2018, 03:27:08 PM »

Also the jigs to build them
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g_kandylakis
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« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2018, 05:35:47 PM »

Well, I have no idea what the result might be.

I imagine it will work well in terms of strength, since the spokes are continuous filament in legthwise direction.
Depending on their cross section, the 3d priner may or may not print them properly, but that is for you to find out...

The visual result, however, might not be as realistic. But again, that depends on what you are aming for... For simple wheels, no problem. for something more scale like, you should think differently.
Spokes have to be thinner, round and strong, which no 3d printing method can achieve, so naturally thread or even thin wire come in play here.

It is however perfectly possible to print the main components of a wheel and assemble them together. As Fred said, this is what I did with my Avro wheels a few years back. Hub, rim, tyre and jig were all 3d printed and everything assembled on the jig.

As for the 3D printing skills he mentions, it is easy: I did not print them myself, I do not have a 3D printer (nor do I intent to get one).
The result I wanted was too fine for an FDM machine, but "Shapeways" offers this service... As a matter of fact, you hoose the proper material that has the tolerances you need.
So, it is mostly thinking in advance how the parts should be, transforming that into 3D construction, printing the parts and then manually cleaning up everything and assembling it all together.

Here is a link to my wheels, with the extra note that I "went" a bit too far with this and similar details for the Avro. Definetely not that necessary for an acceptable result.

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=15029.msg115365#msg115365

Attached images are from the STL file, as it is uploaded in Shapeways. Sorry I could not get a better total picture...

George

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pedwards2932
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« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2018, 07:25:06 PM »

Got the idea looking at this https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:60912    I have ordered the smallest extruder and I will post my results good or bad but the thingiverse wheel looked pretty close.  I have a few more ideas on the printing/drawing.  I realize you can print the hub etc and then put in the spokes.  This more to see what I can do.....might not work that well but we'll see.....and yes I am always trying to find a way to justify the printer....I am working on exhaust stacks for my P51D.....I think they will work out pretty nice
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LASTWOODSMAN
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« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2018, 07:49:59 PM »

Pretty neat stuff pedwards   Cool Cool   , very interesting videos.  It looks like they can print almost anything ...  Thanks for the experiments.   Here is an xyz pic out of your video link.

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billdennis747
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« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2018, 03:44:29 AM »

Is it feasible to print the hubs and rims, drill and lace them up?
George, you've answered my question!
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pedwards2932
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« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2018, 06:46:58 AM »

Got my nozzles in today.  I had to print off some P51-D exhausts before I changed it over.  The exhausts came out pretty decent....they aren't scale but I think they look better than the Guillow vacuformed ones.  Will try the spoked wheel tonight.
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pedwards2932
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« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2018, 09:00:00 PM »

Took a bit of disassembly to get the .02 nozzle working.  You have to print at a bit higher temp and you have to get the first layer exactly right.  These would have printed in about 10 minutes with the .04 nozzle but with the .02 about 40 minutes.  I think they came out pretty good for an experiment.  If I were to do them for a model I would print a center hub to push out the center.
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piecost
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« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2018, 03:37:32 AM »

That looks really good. I didnt expect the spokes to look so fine
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LASTWOODSMAN
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« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2018, 05:14:20 AM »

Great printed spoked wheels pedwards !!    Smiley  Thanks of thinking outside of the box.  Great job proving it could be done.   Cool Cool 

 LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
fred
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« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2018, 11:05:47 PM »

Got the idea looking at this https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:60912    I have ordered the smallest extruder and I will post my results good or bad but the thingiverse wheel looked pretty close.  I have a few more ideas on the printing/drawing.  I realize you can print the hub etc and then put in the spokes.  This more to see what I can do.....might not work that well but we'll see.....and yes I am always trying to find a way to justify the printer....I am working on exhaust stacks for my P51D.....I think they will work out pretty nice
Welll....  those spokes look a Mess.. to be Honest.  
Printing rims and then lacing them in the traditional manner seems a logical  approach.
 I had to use a 0.2 mm Nozzle at 30  speed  to print my LeRhone @1:12 to generate generate decent detail.  
Loong print times required. Not going to revisit that anytime soon.
 IMO Ain't No way to print scale spokes.
Simply barking up the wrong tree on this one.
  Want to Print an Me 109 Wheel? Great !  A workable printer can do those readily/credibly
 
Our Cheap A** retail grade 3d printers are NOT magical.. Their capabilities are genuinely limited.
Small profit in trying to reinvent the wheel  Grin
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pedwards2932
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« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2018, 06:24:01 AM »

Hmmmmm  are you talking about the one on Thingaverse link or the ones I printed?  Mine came out pretty clean....may need a bit of clean up.  I need to do a bit more experimentation on construction and how many spokes needed. Also needs a hub designed.  As I have said this was just an experiment to see if it can be done.  I am not a museum scale modeler and never intend to enter contests just do this for fun.
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mike
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« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2018, 06:46:23 AM »

I'm confused by the left hand picture in your post above, reproduced below -  the one with the spokes 'leaning over'.  I don't think you can lace a wheel like that - a slight anti-clock rotation of the hub in the wheel makes all the spokes go loose?
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pedwards2932
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« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2018, 07:10:16 AM »

They all lean at about 15 degrees then in the second picture where I have put the 2 halves together they lean in opposite directions so they cross similar to how they do in in a spoked wheel.  I probably put too many spokes in and 15 degrees may not be correct but this was just an experiment.  I have a few more ideas but I think it will take 4 printed parts.  An outer hub, 2 spoke rings, and a center hub.  Once I get that done I'll post a pic and it will probably make sense.

The reason I think this would be pretty cool is once I have the design right I can make a wheel of any size by rescaling it.  Again I am not a contest modeler just doing this for fun and the computer and 3D printer are part of what makes it fun for me.
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Prosper
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« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2018, 07:43:24 AM »

Quote from: pedwards2932
Again I am not a contest modeler just doing this for fun and the computer and 3D printer are part of what makes it fun for me.
Stop apologising! What you're doing is fascinating and impressive.

A quick squint through a transparent plastic protractor lined up with a bicycle wheel hub suggests a spoke offset of more like 45° (36 spokes), but I suppose there might be many variations of spoke pattern.

Stephen.
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pedwards2932
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« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2018, 07:55:18 AM »

Thanks for that.  When I try to draw this with more precision I will play around with the number of spokes and angle.  I was surprised at how strong the hub area was with the number of spokes I used so I am pretty sure it will hold together with less spokes.  I think I had 48 spokes.
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Indoorflyer
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« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2018, 10:49:06 AM »

There are "leading" and "pulling" spokes emanating from both flanges of the hub. Purely radially-laced wheels are common on the front of modern bicycles. On the rear wheel, a given spoke may cross 2, 3 or 4 other spokes depending on the number of drilling in the rim. Common rim drillings are 32 and 36; heavy duty applications (tandem bikes) may use more spokes.

A really good technical manual is "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt. He covers the different lacing patterns that have been used over the years.
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pedwards2932
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« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2018, 11:01:41 AM »

I looked at a few bicycle hubs and I think once I get this drawn you'll see that it will have leading and pulling.  On the bicycle hub I looked at you would have a leading on the outside of the hub and a pulling on the inside.  When I get it drawn I will put it up so you can see what I am trying.  It also may need to be simplified to be able to print it decently...….we'll see how it works out
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Indoorflyer
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« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2018, 11:24:47 AM »

Cylinder cooling fins, wheel spokes, and direction of gun riflings:  the bane of scale modelers worldwide!!  Sorry, when I look at a spoked wheel, the first thing I think is "Would that really work"??!

Here's a 32 spoke 3 cross rear wheel.  Rear wheels are "dished" to compensate for the gearing/drive train (rim remains centered), hub flanges are offset.
The pulling spokes here are on the "outside"; some wheelbuilders prefer them on the inside of the flange. 
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mike
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« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2018, 11:56:12 AM »

The bicycle wheel shown is a 'drive wheel' it has to transmit torque from hub to rim so tangential spokes are required.  The standard Palmer 700x100 wheel has 64 radial spokes. (As used on the SE5/5A and many other types).
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pedwards2932
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« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2018, 12:24:26 PM »

Thanks for the hub shot.....I can use that later.  For now I'll do the easy way I have to make sure all parts will go together and it will work.  Then I can try to lace them as you have pictured if I can.
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Indoorflyer
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« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2018, 01:19:13 PM »

Spoke cross also contributes to "suspension"/ride quality.  Tire air volume, rigidity of wheel, existence of spring or bungee suspension and whether or not brakes are equipped, all factor in when used on aircraft.
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pedwards2932
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« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2018, 05:35:31 PM »

Ok I designed the hub so it will handle small wire for landing gear.  I also extended the hub so it would push the spokes outward.  I tried several methods for gluing together.  Finally it seemed easier to print an outer rim where I could put a tire on as well.  I think it looks pretty good. 
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