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Author Topic: PLAIN PLANE 17 7/8" Howard Littman kit Rubber Powered Free Flight  (Read 1093 times)
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LASTWOODSMAN
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REAL PLANES HAD ROUND ENGINES AND TWO WINGS



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« on: September 27, 2018, 03:08:29 PM »

PLAIN PLANE  17 7/8" Howard Littman kit Rubber Powered Free Flight

     Well, I ordered an easier kind kit for a quick build, just to get me back into the swing of things.  (I will tissue up my  18" Albatross D5 after).   
     My curiosity was aroused, as this kit was to have 'tab and notch' and interlocking parts construction, and was meant for anyone up in the years (seniors who need an easy assembly kit).   It came in the mail yesterday, and pretty quickly too.   Just in the nick of time, as Canada is about to have a Postal strike/walkout any time soon.
     This is Howard Littman's (kittyfritters)  "PLAIN  PLANE"   about  17 7/8"  wingspan, flat, without dihedral.   I really looks light!   A high-wing monoplane with sheeted fuse sides, that have been lightened with huge laser cut holes.  Oh yes! -  and rubber powered Free Flight.
     I am just going through the kit, and reading the instructions now.  I will have more pics of the kit contents, the nice prop package, four laser cut balsa parts sheets nicely shrink wrapped, and a four page, 'color', "Help Sheets" of blown up isometric sketches with instructions,  in addition to, the many instructions on the Main and Only Plan Sheet 23" X 17", and a nice supply of tissue.
      I am being lazy and I am trying to get around having to clean off my entire work table - I just might anyway - the more I look at this kit, the more interesting it gets.   Shocked    Shocked   Smiley

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard

PS  link to the Plain Plane here  http://hjlmodels.com/odoonedefor2.html
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PLAIN PLANE 17 7/8" Howard Littman kit Rubber Powered Free Flight
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« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2018, 09:57:59 PM »

Ooops.    Embarrassed     I think this topic should be in "Outdoor Sport Models" and not in "Free Flight Scale"  - I was trying to figure out where it goes.  Please Administrators, feel free to relocate it to its proper category.  Thanks.

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Richard
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« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2018, 10:07:45 PM »

Moved as requested

sundance12

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« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2018, 10:49:03 PM »

Thanks Sundance. 

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« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2018, 05:36:58 PM »

PLAIN PLANE  17 7/8"  Howard Littman laser cut kit  Rubber Powered Free Flight

Here are more pics of the kit contents

Pic #1     0502      Two of the four "Help Sheets"
Pic #2     0503      The other two pages of the four "Help Sheets"
Pic #3     0507       Tightly "saran wrapped",  four sheets of laser cut parts, plus Cellophane sheet for windows,  4 3/4"  X  4"
Pic #4     0509       Prop package - exploded ,  and other side of the laser cut parts sheets wrapped up.
pic #5     0514       Four laser cut parts sheets  spread out.

PROP PACKAGE:
white plastic prop - 6"   3.3 grams
1/32" wire for landing gear
two 4 foot lengths of rubber - one is  3/32" and the other is  1/8"
two solid black plastic wheels   each     0.50 grams
three little gold metal spheres    each   0.33 grams
small blue elastic for wing hold downs    0.24 grams
one clear glass bead    0.08 grams
two small flat washers   0.00 grams
one bolt of purple modellers' clay   1"  long by  3/8"  diameter    4.45 gr
one aluminum tube for rear peg    1/8" diam    0.29  grams
two aluminum tubes for wing tie downs   1/16" diam   X  1 5/8"  0.15 g each
one white plastic thrust button   0.11 grams   1/8"  diam
one prop wire bent   2 inches   1/32" diam   0.26 grams
two foot length of purple thread for wrapping the tire axle

This kit seems very well supplied!    Smiley   

LASTWOODSMAN
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Re: PLAIN PLANE 17 7/8" Howard Littman kit Rubber Powered Free Flight
Re: PLAIN PLANE 17 7/8" Howard Littman kit Rubber Powered Free Flight
Re: PLAIN PLANE 17 7/8" Howard Littman kit Rubber Powered Free Flight
Re: PLAIN PLANE 17 7/8" Howard Littman kit Rubber Powered Free Flight
Re: PLAIN PLANE 17 7/8" Howard Littman kit Rubber Powered Free Flight
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« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2018, 01:40:43 PM »

PLAIN PLANE  17 7/8" Howard Littman laser cut kit Rubber Powered Free Flight

     I got some work done cutting out the parts.  Good thing I have my Heavy Duty large Magnifying glass.  All of the parts numbers are laser-cut "etched"  into the balsa parts, and these are border-line "readable" to me, even with my full lens bifocal glasses, that I wear to build with.
     The Balsa "Gates", or bridges, of balsa that are not laser cut, are quite small.  These small bridges were easy to snap cut with just an Exacto knife.  No need for a metal rule straight edge that I use for the longer gates or bridges on other kits I have built.  Small gates = less sanding ...  Cheesy
    All of the laser cuts were quite clean and went right through, and there were no hangups that were not laser cut.   Even the round holes,  on the nose block layers, and the holes for the wing tie down aluminum tubes, and the ones for the rear motor peg,  they were all, almost completely cut out perfectly - hardly any "gates" of balsa at all, and very little fuss, to poke out those little round hole balsa pieces, and get those perfect laser cut circular holes.
     Different thicknesses of the balsa parts sheets, were taken into consideration in this design.

Sheet #1     0.074"    Fuse, Ribs, and Wing Tips and Tail Frames
Sheet #2     0.073"    Same as Above
Sheet #3     0.068"    Mostly Hollowed Out Formers
Sheet #4     0.098"    Leading and Trailling Wing Edges

     Bridge placement was downgrain along the hypotenuse on all gussets, making it easy to cut out with an Exacto Knife, while still retaining the 90 degree right angle integrity and fit of the gussets.

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard

Five and one half min video     Johannes Brahms: Hungarian Dance No. 4 -  Ural Philharmonic Orchestra
here  https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=HUNGARIAN+DANCE+%234+BRAHMS&&view=detail&mid=37BF610B6D1B2D548BE737BF610B6D1B2D548BE7&rvsmid=16E761CFCB016B0D0F5B16E761CFCB016B0D0F5B&FORM=VDRVRV

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« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2018, 04:22:47 PM »

PLAIN PLANE  17 7/8"  Howard Littman laser cut kit  Rubber Powered Free Flight

     This is about 64 laser cut parts (cut out, gates (bridges) sanded, ready to go), and a generous supply of tissue (different colors).  Ready to really clear the building table and cut apart the plan into sections and get started ...   Smiley

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« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2018, 01:18:37 AM »

PLAIN PLANE  17 7/8"  Howard Littman laser cut kit  Rubber Powered Free Flight

    Well, I labelled the parts with large black numbering on green masking tape, and now I have finally figured out where each part goes.   Smiley
   A grand total of only three part pieces were broken loose off of the thin gates/bridges - front nose hollowed out piece sheet A, part N2,  and part W8.   Sheet A and B are the exact same balsa and the same weight.   Sheet A  6.12 g   Sheet B  6.15 g , and both appear to be hard, darker grained balsa sheets.  N6 gates (bridges) are on wrong grain side.
Two parts are called F4A.  I think the larger "F4A" part, for the lower fuse, was meant to be called "F4B".  
     The plan also needs a diagram blowup of how the four N5 parts, for the noseblock  "key",   fit together.  It is not shown.  And just a couple of minor spelling errors - all pretty minor details.  And the font size of the lettering on the main plan needs to be larger, and all upper case lettering for me to read - it is too small.  There are no longerons or stringers on the fuse, and the wing just has one top spar on the wing ribs.  But now it is ready for assembly ...   Smiley

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« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2018, 08:21:21 AM »

Good am Richard,
This PLAIN PLANE reminds me a little of my favorite blues-buster the Island Flyer. I have a few solid flying models that make up my offensive line for my more skittish models. Acute miss-behavers like the Mig and the Staggerwing are buoyed up by the Island Flyer, and the Sparky the Aeronca K to name a few. I know you have a few of these yourself, and this PLANE PLANE is gonna be another. Good luck its gonna go together 1-2-3! I am going flying I saw a yellow Viceroy today that means a free pass to do what I want (peacefully that is)! Go Bears!
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« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2018, 11:06:33 AM »

Hi Crabby!   Yeah, it would go together  1-2-3 ...   IF  I could read the instructions ...  and the tiny laser cut parts numbers in the clean balsa.   Angry   There is no parts ID sheet either.   Huh    Gonna try anyway.   Just cleared the whole building board, and in the process of taping on new waxed paper, and inking on grid lines.

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« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2018, 01:05:52 PM »

Sorry your having problems. I had simular problems with a lazar cut Easy Built kit. The formers were not marked, i did not no the top from the bottom of the formers. You jest had to guess, and hope for the best, O' well. Huh 
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« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2018, 01:51:11 PM »

Hi Don.  The fuselage formers (in this kit) ARE laser cut marked, as to which way is up.  The part numbers are at the top of the balsa part, followed by a space and then the letter "T" which denotes the upper top part of the part.    Smiley

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« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2018, 02:13:25 PM »

Well that"s nice , it looks like a good model to build as a sport flyer! That Double Trouble model looks like it would be cool, done up as a old time WW 1 flyer.  Grin
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« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2018, 02:26:23 PM »

PLAIN PLANE  17 7/8" Howard Littman laser cut kit Rubber Powered Free Flight

    Well, I labelled the parts with large black numbering on green masking tape, and now I have finally figured out where each part goes.   Smiley
   A grand total of only three part pieces were broken loose off of the thin gates/bridges - front nose hollowed out piece sheet A, part N2,  and part W8.   Sheet A and B are the exact same balsa and the same weight.   Sheet A  6.12 g   Sheet B  6.15 g , and both appear to be hard, darker grained balsa sheets.  N6 gates (bridges) are on wrong grain side.
Two parts are called F4A.  I think the larger "F4A" part, for the lower fuse, was meant to be called "F4B".  
     The plan also needs a diagram blowup of how the four N5 parts, for the noseblock  "key",   fit together.  It is not shown.  And just a couple of minor spelling errors - all pretty minor details.  And the font size of the lettering on the main plan needs to be larger, and all upper case lettering for me to read - it is too small.  There are no longerons or stringers on the fuse, and the wing just has one top spar on the wing ribs.  But now it is ready for assembly ...   Smiley

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard


Rechecking the plans and parts sheets for these issues.  I will reverse the direction of the fuselage side on sheet 2 so that you can hide the part numbers on the side inside the fuselage as I did on the Double Trouble kit.  I hope you can read the laser etched part numbers on the Double Trouble kit...You did request that I make them as light as possible.

Font sizes for the instructions are limited by the real estate available on the plan page.  The solution may be to combine the fuselage assembly  instructions with the help sheet drawings in an instruction booklet as I do with my Bostonian and Embryo kits.  

The interesting thing is that the O.F.F.C. members built a dozen of these for the one design contest last year and no one mentioned the typos or mis-numbered parts. Also, for some reason the propeller in the diagram of the nose block assembly is barely visible in the current printing of the plan.  My original plans are done in color and I may have to change the color of the propeller to make it show up.  I would love to be able to print my plans in the original colors but it is way too expensive.  Another interesting thing is that you found two different thicknesses between sheet 1 and sheet 2.  In order to prevent "banana fuselages" with my sheet sided designs I cut them, book faced, from the same sheet of balsa.

Watching your progress.

KF

P.S.   My Latin tag signature translates to "When all else fails, read the instructions".
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 02:38:36 PM by kittyfritters » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2018, 08:53:13 PM »

     Hi Howard.  I understand all of the factors involved, and they are many, in producing a kit.   The two fuse sheets are not two different thicknesses - they are the same thickness - I was commenting, in a complimentary fashion, that their weight was the same 6.12g and 6.15g, and obviously visibly cut from the same harder darker balsa (I have had identical sheets in another kit that were not even close to the same weight or color or hardness).   As for the laser cut parts that have laser cut parts numbers into the clean balsa - you only gave me one choice - to lighten up the laser cut numbers.  Now they are way too light to see (plus any indention of grain on the balsa, hides the faint part number laser cut into it).   I would rather just have clean balsa with no parts numbers and a parts ID sheet, so I can label the parts numbers myself so that I can read them.  I will need a parts ID sheet for the Double Trouble, not now, later on, if its not too much trouble.
     The Plain Plane kit is actually great, but, again, the font size of the plan lettering is way too small for me to read from three feet away and further with my full bifocal lenses.   Just being honest.  Thanks for the speedy e-mail with those "large font" instruction attachments (easy to read now).
      And believe it or not, I have spent an inordinate amount of time in Google Translate and Bing Translate trying to figure out what that Latin tag signature of yours is - to no avail   Huh  - but at least I tried.   Roll Eyes  LOL  Another suggestion I would make, since I have now thrust myself into a full kit review, is to supply a kit materials components checklist, so that the buyer can verify that everything is there when the kit is opened.  
     Yes, that IS interesting that nobody mentioned the typo or the misnumbered part (I only found one).  I like your idea (like other kit makers do) of having to "to combine the fuselage assembly  instructions with the help sheet drawings in an instruction booklet as I do with my Bostonian and Embryo kits."  You already do that for your Bostonian and Embryo kits?
      "Qua sublata omnia praecepta legis"  -    Ich würde, wenn die Textschrift groß genug wäre.   Grin

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Richard
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« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2018, 09:01:11 PM »

Hi Richard
Received your correspondence the other day, thanks very much.
Nice to see your build, and getting organized with a kit review, keep up the good work.

Sundance12
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« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2018, 09:23:35 PM »

Nice detailed start to the review Richard, and quite interesting.

John
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« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2018, 09:42:05 PM »

     Well, the Plain Plane now gets a new building "beaver" board of fresh waxed paper, with 3" gridmark lines  - now to try to make a clean build.
     Hi Crabby!  You saw a yellow Viceroy?  It is probably your local version of our Canadian Tiger Swallowtail butterfly, which is the pic on the computer screen, and on the cover of the "Butterflies of Ontario and Eastern Canada" book I just bought (John Acorn author).  I think I have ID'd about 8 of them.   
     The big Monarchs have long gone, but there were a few stragglers, and a lot of new Sulphurs and Whites and Blues and little Skippers and  brown Coppers and Harvesters, and Hairstreaks, and Elfins, and Nymphs and Satyrs, that won't stay still long enough for an ID.  The last two days now, all of the butterflies have now migrated south.   The best ID I have made is the female Spicebush Swallowtail  4" wingspan, second pic.

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« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2018, 08:31:30 AM »

    Hi Howard.   You sent me the Plain Plane and Double Trouble kits.  You sent me four  1/8" X 1/8"  X  12"  square spars for the Double Trouble bipe kit.  And you sent one 1/8" X 1/8" X 17" square spar for the mono high wing Plain Plane.  The four spars for the Double Trouble are oversized and bent and two of them have sliver chunks missing.   The single 17" long spar, which has to be cut in half, one spar for each wing, is a totally rotten spar - you can tell just by the color, and has "S" bends in it.   The reason I sent you a pic of that rotten spar, is because it looks like dead heartwood, and with that big knot, that you can actually see through, it is something I have never seen before.     These are all poorly cut spar strips.  I tried sanding down a couple of them, but just got a lose fit in the rib notches.   They are too large and bent, and not even close to fitting in the spar notches on top of the ribs.  Did someone else pack these two kits?  Surely you would not have sent me that rotten  1/8"  x  1/8"  X  17" long spar.   Now I cannot build the Plain Plane wing, until your new spars arrive.  This deserves to be part of the kit review.  So here is a pic of that rotten spar.  Totally unacceptable.   Sorry.  
     I sent you an email regarding the Curtiss P6E kit that I also paid for, ahead of time, for when you get around to kitting it.   That is  $65 for the kit, and  $17 shipping.   If you are not able to supply a parts ID sheet, and the parts laser cut with no part numbers on the clean balsa, and instructions that I can read, I will have to ask for a refund.

LASTWOODSMAN
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« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2018, 02:13:28 PM »

     Howard Littman is a totally upright guy.  His phone call to me last night addressed all of my concerns - I will get a laser cut P6E without any parts numbers on the balsa, and a plan that I will be able to read.   I have been a supportive big fan of Howard's for years myself, especially since he does a lot of flight testing and re-eningeering  design on his models, to make sure they fly with minimal trimming.  And he makes laser cut kits which is what I prefer.

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« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2018, 12:45:45 PM »

PLAIN PLANE 17 7/8" Howard Littman laser cut kit Rubber Powered Free Flight

Starting on the Stabilizer first.

Pic #1    0565     The plan is carefully cut into pieces.
Pic #2    0566     The outer frame of the Stabilizer has very neat laser cut interlocking parts (first I have built like this).  
Pic #3    0570      Closeup of Stab framework.   There is no spar - only  1/16" sq balsa strip stock for stabilizer ribs.
Pic #4    0572      Test fitted, blocked up solid, ready for double white gluing.    The stabilizer ribs fit into nifty little "tab and notch" slots in the back of the leading edge, and the front of the trailing edge.  You can put glue all around the tab ends for greater gluing surface.  (first I have seen like this also).


LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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Re: PLAIN PLANE 17 7/8" Howard Littman kit Rubber Powered Free Flight
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REAL PLANES HAD ROUND ENGINES AND TWO WINGS



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« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2018, 12:06:16 PM »

PLAIN PLANE 17 7/8" Howard Littman laser cut kit Rubber Powered Free Flight

Stabilizer is gued up -  weight is  0.84 grams.   Starting on the fuselage now.

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2018, 04:00:59 PM »


PLAIN PLANE   17 7/8" Howard Littman laser cut kit    Rubber Powered Free Flight

     There are really nice laser cut interlocking tabs on these Formers.   Since I used white glue, I kept a constant eye on their straightness while drying,  using the kit supplied "SQUARE TOOL AND DIHEDRAL GAGE".   These are the important ones to get square right from the start, before placing the other fuse half on top.

Pic #1     0585     Two full Formers F5  and F7  and two partial Formers  F6A and F6B   are test fit.   These formers also have a "T" beside the parts number (which is at the top of the part) to denote the "top" of the part
Pic #2     0586     Gluing up Former F5
Pic #3     0587     Followed by  F6A and F6B and Former F7

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
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REAL PLANES HAD ROUND ENGINES AND TWO WINGS



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« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2018, 11:55:43 AM »

PLAIN PLANE  17 7/8"   Howard Littman laser cut kit    Rubber Powered Free Flight

     The fuselage is built from the middle outward.   My Former uprights, F5 and F7,  were even from right to left and up to down,  but F6A and F6B were a tiny bit crooked from up to down.  I just brushed on a little water to soften up the glue a little bit, double white glued everything, and blocked it all up at right angles the best I could, and now it dries.


Pic #1     0588     Test fit of the left fuse side.
Pic #2     0590     Now double glued.
Pic #3     0591     Blocked up securely.

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
LASTWOODSMAN
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REAL PLANES HAD ROUND ENGINES AND TWO WINGS



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« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2018, 03:31:27 AM »

PLAIN PLANE   17 7/8"   Howard Littman laser cut kit    Rubber Powered Free Flight

     The fuse is dry and solid and square.  The 30" Rearwin Speedster needs work.   Sad    Happy Halloween!    Cheesy Grin    See you all on the new server.   Good luck Ratz!

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard
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Re: PLAIN PLANE 17 7/8" Howard Littman kit Rubber Powered Free Flight
Re: PLAIN PLANE 17 7/8" Howard Littman kit Rubber Powered Free Flight
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OH, I HAVE SLIPPED THE SURLY BONDS OF EARTH ... UP, UP THE LONG DELIRIOUS BURNING BLUE ... SUNWARD I'VE CLIMBED AND JOINED THE TUMBLING MIRTH OF SUN-SPLIT CLOUDS ...
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