Logo
Builders' Plan Gallery  |  Hip Pocket Web Site  |  Contact Forum Admin  |  Contact Global Moderator
December 10, 2018, 06:04:27 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with email, password and session length
 
Home Help Search Login Register
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: When spraying...  (Read 927 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Jack Plane
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 28
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,110


Topic starter


Ignore
« on: November 30, 2018, 06:03:26 AM »

... do you use a spray-booth?

I intend to spray acrylics only and have found two options:

https://www.everythingairbrush.com/respirators-spray-booths/spray-booths/sparmax-spray-booth-with-exhaust-fan-pipe.html
This is 20" wide, sucks at 2m3/min, and costs £147 delivered.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/FLOUREON-Professional-Airbrush-Airbrushing-Extractor/dp/B00KXTDI7A/ref=pd_sbs_21_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00KXTDI7A&pd_rd_r=d972ad37-f48c-11e8-bed3-773608197450&pd_rd_w=PHf03&pd_rd_wg=Hiq55&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_p=18edf98b-139a-41ee-bb40-d725dd59d1d3&pf_rd_r=Z9XZJXAA0PF72JEBVQ9D&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=Z9XZJXAA0PF72JEBVQ9D
This is 13.5" wide, sucks at 3m3/min, and costs £95 delivered.

I'm (obviously) inclined towards the cheaper one (which is quieter as well as being advertised as having a more powerful suck) but don't want to find myself with an opening that is too narrow for (future) larger model parts.

Also are these things any good for extracting dope fumes?

Would welcome advice from experienced sprayers...

Cheers
Jon
Logged
SP250
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 4
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 343



Ignore
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2018, 08:54:17 AM »

Jon

I am not an experienced sprayer but am experienced at cheap ways of doing stuff.

I cobbled up a system for about £20 years ago.
Basically a kitchen extractor fan (Screwfix now about £20) a large cardboard box to make the booth, some second hand 6" bore flexible tube and a replacement panel filter (about £6).
In true Blue Peter fashion with a roll of gaffa tape and a couple of brackets you can knock up something to do the job.
Just make sure to buy the correct filter panel to take out the relevant nasties of what you are spraying and blow the cleaned air to outside through a window or cat flap.
Block up where the rest of the window gap is and you are good to go.

Also tried using a "Henry" vac cleaner for the suck, with the correct panel filter in where the bag goes - worked ok but the smell was still in the house so reverted to doing the above.

John M
Logged
Jack Plane
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 28
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,110


Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2018, 04:29:55 AM »

Cheers for that John.

I would go down the DIY route, but I've got Christmas deadlines on to complete two small but complex jobs, plus essential health-related workshop gear to make (e.g. a carpeted, perforated bench-sized sanding-table to be connected to the 3-ph dust-extractor).  2019 is then the year to chip more rust off the marketing machine:  a time-intensive and little-loved job but necessary to stop a few financially-comfortable people giving their money to less deserving purveyors of consumer durables...  Grin

So what time and energy I have left I just want to spend on making models - my first Open class entry, a new Peanut which doesn't scrape the floor on the static front like my first one, and a 2m balsa slow-aerobatic sloper currently in very short-kit form.

Jon
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 05:03:04 AM by Jack Plane » Logged
FreeFlightModeller
Russ Lister
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 60
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 3,311


Russ Lister



Ignore
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2018, 05:50:11 AM »

No expert, but in a similar situation to you Jon.
I just make do with a three sided box I made from correx.
It's just put together with tape so it hinges and folds flat.
Logged
randoloid
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 6
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 100



Ignore
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2018, 11:46:16 AM »

I made my own down draft spray booth that I'm very happy with and it wasn't all that difficult or expensive. I spent way more time researching and planning than I did building.  There's quite a rabbit hole you can go down determining airflow requirements, filtering and safety aspects and there's a lot of misinformation on the internet (a cheap bathroom fan is not a good solution)  

If there's any interest, I'd be glad to provide pictures, and draw up plans with measurements along with the exact specs.

The air gets pulled through the floor, filtered and exit through two flexible dryer hoses. The layers are as follows (from the flooring down)
  • Peg board as the base flooring-  pre drilled holes allows for airflow
  • a furnace filter
  • 2 shielded exhaust fans
  • and 2 two flexible dryer hoses to move the air outside

Logged
randoloid
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 6
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 100



Ignore
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2018, 12:01:46 PM »

I'm (obviously) inclined towards the cheaper one (which is quieter as well as being advertised as having a more powerful suck) but don't want to find myself with an opening that is too narrow for (future) larger model parts.

I forgot to quote you in my first post that your concerns about size is well founded.  I've been airbrushing for over 30 years and I can verify that both would do the trick for extracting the dope fumes (I've owned the one from Amazon and have used one very similar to the first link) Both have the turntable which is essential to working efficiently.

It would be totally fine if all you were building were peanut scale, anything larger, at best it will be a frustrating experience.


Logged
fred
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 2
Offline Offline

Canada Canada

Posts: 376



Ignore
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2018, 12:08:26 PM »

I would just bite the time constraints worry bullet and DIY a booth.
  Be very surprised if it took more than am Hours' actual construct time.
 How long does it take to slice one end off'n a cardboard box, or duct tape on a wee fan unit, slide a piece of dryer duct onto it's designed for it outlet,
 and subsequently  point  said  tube at a window ?
Stuff in a furnace filter, add a cheap turntable and the thing is the equivalent (or better) of some goofy Chinese made contraption.
Hardest / most time consuming part of all this is leaving the house to acquire the fan , filter and drier hose.
Wayyy easier than building a Peanut
Logged
Jack Plane
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 28
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,110


Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2018, 12:23:53 PM »


If there's any interest, I'd be glad to provide pictures, and draw up plans with measurements along with the exact specs.


Well Rando, I'd certainly be interested... because, notwithstanding my rationale to just buy one, I've just realised that it would make an excellent collaborative project for my 13yr old to work on with me over his Christmas holidays!  A bit of basic maths and applied physics, some hot-glue gun action, etc, etc!  Smiley

I'm sure loads of other people would also be interested and appreciative.

Jon

Logged
randoloid
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 6
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 100



Ignore
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2018, 01:49:52 PM »

Jack, 

LOVE that idea of working with our kids, it's my opinion that it's these skills that our kids are really lacking (at least mine are). 

I'll put together specs, a drawing/plan, and snap some photos tomorrow. 

Logged
Jack Plane
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 28
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,110


Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2018, 02:05:07 PM »

 Smiley
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: When spraying...
Logged
john bowerman
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 2
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 20



Ignore
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2018, 08:42:44 AM »

John
I have one of the type you mention at £95.00, not sure of the make of mine but there are a few of the same type under different badges. I have to say I have been pleased with mine and it performs at an acceptable level for me. I am only airbrushing and not many of the models will actually fit inside the box but as long as the item is in front then the fumes will be sucked out through the filter and outside. I allways open the window and allow the tube to vent in to fresh air and I also allways wear a decent mask to be safe. My workshop is within the house and so far I have received no complaints about the smell permeating the rest of the house.
Hope this helps.
John
Logged
Jack Plane
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 28
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,110


Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2018, 09:31:40 AM »

Thanks for that John, most helpful.

One thing I noticed about these generic commercial units is that some are designed so two can link together for a wider opening... but you have to spend double quite a lot of money in the first place!!   Shocked

As mentioned above, Randoloid's version seems like a quick and fun project and can be sized to suit the size of models in my own comfort zone (Peanut up to a max of maybe 30" span), and looking forward to seeing the design.

Coincidentally, the Kid was reading my copy of "Flight Without Formulae" last weekend, and asked me if we could make an experimental wind-tunnel, complete with incense sticks!  So we might in fact have two Christmas projects to make from my copious supplies of stiff corrugated cardboard!   Grin
Logged
flydean1
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 9
Offline Offline

United States United States

Posts: 712



Ignore
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2018, 10:22:31 AM »

Any source for that book?  Also interested in a home made wind tunnel.
Logged
Buster11
Bronze Member
***

Kudos: 1
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 87



Ignore
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2018, 11:31:53 AM »

Available via the South American river here:  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Flight-Without-Formulae-Aeroplane-Explained/dp/0582026989/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1543768217&sr=1-4&keywords=FLIGHT+WITHOUT+FORMULAE
Logged
fred
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 2
Offline Offline

Canada Canada

Posts: 376



Ignore
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2018, 01:08:52 PM »

Any source for that book?  Also interested in a home made wind tunnel.

 Again; a trusty cardboard box..  both ends removed, plane in the middle and a box fan at the other end.
 Experiment as to whether suck Or blow works best for you
Or if really lazy... a box fan and a string to suspend the model in front of the fan
Logged
Jack Plane
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 28
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,110


Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2018, 10:00:20 AM »

Jack,  

LOVE that idea of working with our kids, it's my opinion that it's these skills that our kids are really lacking (at least mine are).  

I'll put together specs, a drawing/plan, and snap some photos tomorrow.  


Rando

Would be interesting to see how you went about it (especially your down-draft solution rather than the usual back-wall filter)... when you've got the time!  Smiley

In the meantime, I've just ordered some inexpensive components on a suck-it-and-see basis:

A 12w 100mm diameter exhaust 85m3/hr bathroom extractor fan https://www.screwfix.com/p/manrose-mg100s-12w-bathroom-extractor-fan-white-240v/36536

20mm thick filter material https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/St290-Dual-Layer-Spray-Booth-Filter-Media-Roll-20m-X-1m-20mm-Depth/23007263347?iid=263517687932 which comes in a 1m width x how ever many metres you want off the roll.

I bought 2m (as I want to also experiment with this on my workshop sanding-table and air-cleaning filters etc), so there's plenty enough to make a sizeable spray-booth, say 900mm (36") wide x 450mm (18") high.  If the bathroom extractor isn't quite man enough for this surface-area and thickness of filter, there's the alternative of a similarly cheap 25w 150mm diameter 230m3/hr kitchen extractor fan https://www.screwfix.com/p/manrose-xf150bs-25w-kitchen-extractor-fan-white-240v/11640

Jon
Logged
mick66
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 9
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 222



Ignore
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2018, 08:37:41 AM »

Hi

you might want to take into consideration the type of fan you are using if you expect to spray anything that produces flammables.
Cellulose Dope, thinners etc ... you can get a build up of gases which ignite with the wrong kind of fan.

Personally I'd risk it but then I'm an idiot.

Cheers

Mike
Logged
Jack Plane
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 28
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,110


Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2018, 02:34:06 PM »

Thanks for the warning Mike!  Shocked Grin

I intend to only spray acrylics in occasional very low volumes only, but its worth bearing in mind, and there's nothing to prevent one from removing the filter when the booth is not in use to promote passive clearance of fumes from around the motor.

Interestingly the only technical diagram of a spray booth fan that I've found is the Sparmax one referred to earlier, which shows a 'paddle-wheel' type rather than the 'propellor-type' bathroom fan which I'll be using.  Don't know if there's any reason for the paddle type - noise, air-handling, efficiency, speed of operation?
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: When spraying...
Logged
PB_guy
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 12
Offline Offline

Canada Canada

Posts: 459


Just a kid at heart.



Ignore
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2018, 02:43:12 PM »

From what I have heard, the 'centrifugal' or 'squirrel cage' design is quieter and more efficient than blades for moving larger volumes of air.
YMMV ian
Logged
Jack Plane
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 28
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,110


Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2018, 03:45:07 PM »

That makes sense Ian.

The simple box dust-filter unit in my workshop has a pre-filter at the intake end, the main filter in the middle, and a 'squirrel cage' fan at the exit end.  Quiet as it (relatively is) its always a delight when I turn it off!
Logged
SP250
Gold Member
*****

Kudos: 4
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 343



Ignore
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2018, 06:02:14 PM »

Jon

On the Squirrel cage type of fan, any flammable fumes and dust go through the paddle wheel and out though a filter.
The electric motor is in a separate chamber / area behind a seal so fumes etc. can't get into the motor like the they can in a kitchen fan with the motor central to the blades and in the air/fumes flow.  So it is considerably safer if extracting flammable fumes.

John M
Logged
mick66
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 9
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 222



Ignore
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2018, 01:51:59 AM »

Hi

From my limited experience with my airbrush set up ... using mainly Tamiya acrylics (which work like a dream for me) ... you will find that 90% of your airbrushing effort goes into preparing the work area and cleaning up.  It's best to get into that mindset pretty quick as it makes it way more enjoyable.  The actual spraying is 10% of the effort.

Fumes are a consideration even with acrylics.  Not the paints themselves es but what you end up thinning them with and also what you end up cleaning the airbrush with.  Tamika thinners is expensive but undiluted car windscreen wash, neat cellulose thinners are really good for that initial cleaning of the brush.  Obviously neat cellulose thinners vapourised might be a concern.  You might be interested in one of these ...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Spraytidy-Professional-Airbrush-Cleaning-Accessories/dp/B00RVZG4X4

Good Luck!
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: When spraying...
Re: When spraying...
Re: When spraying...
Re: When spraying...
Re: When spraying...
Logged
Jack Plane
Platinum Member
******

Kudos: 28
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 1,110


Topic starter


Ignore
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2018, 04:38:39 AM »

Thanks for explaining the difference John.  If gasses can get into the motor housing, then the habit of leaving the motor running with the filter removed after each (relatively brief and low-volume) session should help clear these?

Thanks Mick also for the extra info - and super looking jobs!  My kit so far includes that Spraytidy (as well as a Badger 350 and a combined compressor/tank) from Everything Airbrush.

The only experience I have of any paint is brushing on minor areas/details using Vallejo Model Air acrylics - the basic 16 colour set https://www.everythingairbrush.com/airbrush-paints/vallejo-model-air/model-air-paint-sets/sixteen-color-sets/model-air-paint-set-basic-colors-x16.html which have proved easy enough to mix and dilute with water if needed to achieve desired colours.

I'm all for trying Tamiya, but having started with Vallejo was thinking of sticking with them, using their thinners and airbrush cleaner, and adding bottles of specific colours as I need them.  Each make is probably as expensive as the other!
Logged
FreeFlightModeller
Russ Lister
Titanium Member
*******

Kudos: 60
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 3,311


Russ Lister



Ignore
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2018, 08:46:37 AM »

Following with interest, Jon .... I need to do similar myself (I've already mentioned my 'get by' solution).
If you survive to complete a successful spray booth, I might take your lead  Tongue

I really like the AV acrylics, but I have moved more towards Tamiya in recent times. This could just be that my old collection of Tamiya seems to be lasting on the shelf better than the AV?
I do find that Tamiya 'melts' better with its own thinner .... I seem to have less clogs than I did with AV. This could be just down to my own clumsy methods though?

The old Reg 2000 was painted entirely with AV acrylics.

Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: When spraying...
Logged
mick66
Silver Member
****

Kudos: 9
Offline Offline

United Kingdom United Kingdom

Posts: 222



Ignore
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2018, 10:19:50 AM »

Hi Jon

I don't think Tamiya is better than other paints per se ... it's whatever works for you that counts.

I have the Machine Mart equivalent of your Badger and its good for larger areas.  For smaller details stuff I'd recommend an Iwata Neo (gravity fed).  Both are better units than I am a user so no point upgrading at this point.

Whatever paint you use ... have a look on the 'plastics' forums for alternatives to branded cleaning products.  Save you a small fortune.  Concentrated windscreen wash cuts Tamiya superbly for initial cleaning of your brush.  Just use the branded stuff for the last rinse.

Cheers

Mike
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!