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Author Topic: Worcraft Wonder - vintage HLG/CLG -Official Cookup-  (Read 3626 times)
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crashcaley
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« Reply #100 on: May 24, 2008, 11:28:51 PM »

Jim, Thanks for confirming my guesses. I do usually sand things down a bit on the rear to get a little thinner and rounded. This should take me a day to build as I am getting a lot of practice lately with gliders. I hope this one will be something that I can have my groups do. Only problem with gliders is the amount of sawdust that comes with making airfoil shaped wings. More cleanup after the groups are finished for me. Smiley

Doug, I may very well be here more. I won't duplicate my posts between groups. Just lookin' for a second forum to enjoy.

Caley
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Dan G.
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« Reply #101 on: May 24, 2008, 11:49:07 PM »

Hi Caley,

I'll admit to having no experience with this particular hlg, but the plans indicate what appears to be a zero-zero (wing & stab) set-up. If your plane is for a small boy, you might consider incorporating a little negative in the stab (up elevator) and trim for a tighter circle. The glider would be more forgiving on those weakish mis-launches and not so prone to doing the lawn-dart thing.

Dan G.
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crashcaley
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« Reply #102 on: May 24, 2008, 11:57:52 PM »

Hi Dan, Not sure if adding up elevator will help any with these gliders with shorter tail moments. I don't know much about gliders, but my experience with the Kiwi which is supposedly a beginners glider wasn't promising when I added up elevator. I kept having to add nose weight and ended up with the same problems, unable to recover from hard or up throws. It seemed to float a bit better with near 0-0 incidence. I'm wondering if the WW is much the same thing since it is basically the same glider with a different fuse. Everything else looks pretty much the same as the Kiwi. Hoping the larger front section of the WW will help eliminate a lot of nose weight. I had nearly 3 grams on the Kiwi just to get it on CG.

Oh, by the way, those kids have better arms than I do. Grin

Caley
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Dan G.
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« Reply #103 on: May 25, 2008, 12:07:34 AM »

Okay Caley ... let me explore this a bit. One little caveat -- this design is quite different from the modern gliders I know, and if other readers have better or different experience with this plane, I hope they'll say something if I'm out to lunch ...

Does your glider glide and does it turn while it glides?

Dan G.
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crashcaley
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« Reply #104 on: May 25, 2008, 02:48:22 PM »

Dan, I build my gliders on a grid with magnets. I get all the flying surfaces perfectly squared. The only curve I get is due to my poor tosses. When I concentrate properly on my glide tosses, the gliders go perfectly straight. I just have problems with the gliders that are built with 0-0 incidence. They just don't seem to glide. I check the incidence by laying a straight edge against the fuselage under the wing and extending it to the stab. That is how I determine if there is 0-0. And the bottom of the fuse, if it is designed flat will always be in alignment with the wing/stab. So, it isn't the building. It must be the way I launch the gliders. There must be a secret to doing a correct launch. Straight ahead glides are no problem for 20 or so feet. It is when I toss them or catapult them at full speed that they lose their ability to return to a glide and just go into the ground lawn dart style. I hope this covers all questions you might have. I am just looking for a no brainer type glider that can be put together by a novice and still fly properly for at least 50 or more feet without trying to become part of terra firma.

Caley
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hermit
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« Reply #105 on: May 25, 2008, 05:22:49 PM »

Caley; Dan just uploaded a real good trimming and flying guide for hand launch gliders. It's in the Builders plans gallery (which you have to register to download anything) under "articles". Study that, it will help, alot.

Doug
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crashcaley
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« Reply #106 on: May 25, 2008, 07:05:25 PM »

Doug, Thanks. I've downloaded it and now need to read and understand. Thanks to Kevin M. who wrote it.

Caley
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Dan G.
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« Reply #107 on: May 25, 2008, 09:00:27 PM »

Hi Caley,

It's pretty hard to get a zero-zero set-up to glide straight. Furthermore, if it does glide straight, it will always tend to have stalls with huge recoveries. If you could get it to turn at high speed -- bottom of the recovery from stall -- the plane could turn instead of enter into another climb-and-stall sequence. Try a little rudder, which will make the plane dive a little in the glide, so add a little up-elevator to compensate, which will help your dive recovery as well. The more turn you put, the more elevator you'll need, and the tighter the turn and the recovery patterns will become.

If you wish to throw your plane hard, make the glide circle turning opposite to your throwing hand, and bank your launch away from the glide circle toward your throwing side. The glide-turn rudder should roll the plane back to the glide circle at the top of your launch.

If the amount of rudder needed to recover from a dive is insufficient to turn at slow-speed glide, stab tilt is the safest way to go.

Dan G.
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crashcaley
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« Reply #108 on: May 27, 2008, 08:29:52 PM »

Hi Dan, Thanks for the tips. I've got all the parts cut out and sanded. Now I'm putting it together, hopefully straight as an arrow, with the exception of that offset fin in the plan. With the wood I chose, it sure is a light glider. I'm going to use magic markers to put some colour onto it and then use Helmsman to seal it. Will post a pic when I finally get it done. I've got a ton of things going right now, so everything is time sharing my time.  Grin

Caley
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crashcaley
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« Reply #109 on: May 28, 2008, 01:46:03 PM »

The WW is built but not finished. I took it outside and test glided it. The model weighs very light at 5.56 grams and needed 2.78 grams of nose weight. I think that the model may be too light. It glided very nicely once trimmed for about 30 feet with a very gentle push, but didn't like any harder a throw. I tried various wing tilt angles without success. Anything other than level tosses ended up coming down nose first. I am thinking that either I need to bend in some rudder or put on some stab tilt. I guess I will also need a little up elevator. Though I don't think any of these adjustments will be very large to affect the model. I'm slowly learning that minute changes make a big difference. Once I've got the model coloured and sealed I will let you peek at it. Smiley

Caley
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Dan G.
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« Reply #110 on: May 28, 2008, 11:55:43 PM »

I gotta say ... it sounds like you're having fun and looking forward to more.

Any finish you use will increase the weight ... should you be thinking that it's too light. However, the slicker finish -- as opposed to bare wood -- will make your glider behave differently. Your stall-and-dive problems will, if anything, be aggravated, but you should be able to get it higher with less effort and your overall times should improve.

When you progress from light to harder throws, do so gradually. Try to get someone to watch you throw. Often, a thrower thinks he has bank, and incoporates it into the wind-up, but the wrist (or the plane) rotates during the throw and the plane is actually released flat ... trust me -- this is a frequent problem, which even happens to me despite my awareness of it and my attempts to control it.

Do try to establish a glide circle and arrange for that circle to dominate at all other flight speeds.

My hunch is that the design is heavy on tail volume, which will prevent any liklihood of being able to toss the plane straight-up and have it flop onto its belly into the glide. You may have to make sure that the plane never loses enough speed to stall which means ensuring that the climb angle is shallow enough, and the speed sufficient to fly the plane around the top into its glide.

I do repeat ... a smooth finish will let your plane fly better but not easier -- the ship will be less forgiving and your trimming will have to be more exacting.

It does sound like you could use tilt and rudder and elevator ... and you're right ... all of those adjustments will be small.

Dan G.
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crashcaley
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« Reply #111 on: May 29, 2008, 12:09:18 AM »

Dan, You're correct about inconsistent throws. Even when I am trying to glide test, my hands will end up doing what they like. I managed to spike my models occasionally just because I can't seem to let go of the model. But I am improving. The WW I just built and really needs a lot of patience to get it trimmed. It glided very nicely as I said on a very gentle push (toss), but as I add ooomph I will be making those little adjustments to correct things. I've accumulated, thanks to those over at the glider section on SFA four instruction sheets for trimming HLG's/CLG's. I will be using these, experimenting to get things flying better.

Caley
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applehoney
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« Reply #112 on: May 29, 2008, 07:49:10 PM »

Caley, remember that the WW - good little model that it is - has design philosophies from more than 60 years ago and won't trim out as well as more modern desgns, especially from high speed launches .. though it does do better than one might expect; I lost two as CLG's in the past.

For those who believe bigger is better .. be careful should you decide to enlarge the WW, as I did. Didn't work ..at least, not for me

Worcraft had another HLG . .the 'Star' ... which was as hopeless as the 'Wonder' was successful.  You wouldn't want to know about it ...lol
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crashcaley
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« Reply #113 on: May 29, 2008, 08:11:40 PM »

Jim, You got me inspired again on the WW. Even though I can't go outside, I did more testing inside from kitchen to living room. As usual my tossing technique is something to be desired. With harder throws it wanted to go left. So I put in some rudder. TaaaDaaa!! It is going straight now with pretty hard tosses, but wanted to curve upward. So more nose weight and now nice level straight flights with pretty hard throws into the curtains. Will have to wait for the calm air in the morning for outside testing. I get the feeling I will need something else to tame this, but it is now allowing harder throws.

Caley
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crashcaley
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« Reply #114 on: May 30, 2008, 11:02:12 AM »

After working in the yard I finally got over the berm into the field next to my house for some more testing. This time hard throwing, or at least my version of it. It sure is finicky. If I miss the launch angle just a little bit, it will go straight up and then enter the earth nose first. I found that I couldn't have my nose up angle more than about 10 degrees and that I needed about 35 degrees right wing tilt to get anything at all. It may have had one 5 second flight and most were just three or four seconds. It seems that having the nose weight to get a good glide on a gentle forward glide is too much for hard throws. It will cause lawn darts. After removing some nose weight was when I got the best hard throw performance and glides.

A note. I did exactly what you mentioned and got leading edge damage. I cut the bad area out and glued in another 1/8x1/8 piece of balsa and sanded down. Works fine. Next glider I build will have that little strip of basswood on the leading edge. Experimentation, experimentation.  Smiley

I guess I can call this glider a minor success, as I have no idea what to do to make it perform better. I am already throwing like a major league pitcher, getting my back into the launch. I think that it is entertaining enough getting a forty foot glide straight ahead with almost no effort in the toss. Will go ahead and decorate it and post a piccie.

Caley
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crashcaley
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« Reply #115 on: May 30, 2008, 12:19:40 PM »

Nothing fancy here. Just went back to my childhood and scratched some stuff on. Grin
Attached files Thumbnail(s):
Re: Worcraft Wonder - vintage HLG/CLG -Official Cookup-
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« Reply #116 on: May 30, 2008, 02:12:26 PM »

Caley, it's great, and I'm sure you'll get it flying better as it sounds really close now. A fine piece of American Folk Art, very fitting.

Doug
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« Reply #117 on: May 30, 2008, 02:31:20 PM »

Hi Doug, Thanks for the kind comments. Sometimes you just have to let the kid in you decorate your airplanes. I'm sure that one of the kids in the neighborhood will like it anyway. I'm getting too many airplanes in my house and need to clear some out. One room is floor to ceiling, Not quite, but will be if I don't do some distributing.  Grin

Caley
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« Reply #118 on: May 30, 2008, 05:04:44 PM »

Caley,

About time you come do some stuff on this forum!!!

Glad your here Mam!!!!!! and your glider looks great to me! Keepumflying Mam.

You should let the youngsters see them fly and pick one that way you know they like it!! They may even take care of it for a while?

Oh well be good Mam!!
George
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applehoney
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« Reply #119 on: May 30, 2008, 05:27:17 PM »

For what it might be worth, i remember that both of my lost Wonders, flown as CLG's were best launched at 90 degrees to the wind... i.e. I launched with the wind on my right shoulder and the model did its climbing turn into it. Launching in to the wind gave too many loop and other problems.

Nice decor, Caley!

A friend has added some tip dihedral to his Wonder .. says it flys much better but, of course, it's no longer a Wonder ....
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crashcaley
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« Reply #120 on: May 30, 2008, 05:44:57 PM »

Hi George, Nice to be part of another forum. I am still waiting for some of the kids to come back for things I've built for them. Two weeks is now five weeks and I am still waiting. You're right. Maybe when presented with a variety of aircraft they will get more interest. Knowing kids, they will fight over just one. And knowing these kids, the two magic words will escape them when I hand them their airplanes. Want to guess which two words they are. Smiley

Jim, From the multitude of launches I tried with the WW, I came to much the same conclusion. The aircraft is too small and light to penetrate wind even at an angle. It just gets pushed up. Some of that may be because the moment between trailing edge of wing and leading edge of stab is so short. Of course, I don't know much, and am just shouting into the wind with that explanation. Grin I too discovered that tossing it just shy of 90 degrees from head on into the wind and keeping the launch angle shallow, made it perform it's best. Now, if I can convince whomever gets it that it isn't for King Kong type throws and just to toss it straight ahead nice and easy. Wink It flys its best that way.

Anyway, back to another project I've been working on, and it isn't a glider.

Caley
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Sundance12
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MAAC #25680, VE4BDF (amateur radio callsign)

WWW
« Reply #121 on: September 15, 2018, 10:07:22 PM »

Are there plans for this out there anywhere?
I would like to have a set please.

Sundance12
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« Reply #122 on: September 25, 2018, 04:14:55 PM »

The only place I've seen it is in the Brit SAM35 Speaks mag...they are amazing models and no 2 are alike...my first one was a looping Wonder but my new one goes up straight as an arrow into a left hand glide circle...Applehoney did a legendary flight with his a couple of years ago at Geneseo that circled the corn until it didn't like that place and came back to the road and everyone clapped and of course he took a bow...deservedly so as far as I am concerned....
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« Reply #123 on: September 25, 2018, 04:49:44 PM »

I was in conversation with Ratz, and he took the initial image that was posted in this thread and we did some minor edits on it. Now I have a working plan that I will get him to post in the gallery. I am amused at this HLG as its got such a huge stabilizer.

I will keep things posted.

Sundance12

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« Reply #124 on: September 25, 2018, 09:41:47 PM »

you are aware that it is 12" span?...just checking...
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