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Author Topic: Savoia Marchetti S65  (Read 7471 times)
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lemuel
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« on: February 22, 2010, 02:53:17 AM »

I was reluctant to post pictures of this build as it is quite hard and I could see that it would be a lengthy process. When I first saw this model, it was made by a Mr M Nagayama of Japan. It is gorgeous, and more to the point "Unorthadox" Yet at the same time highly competitive if made to fly. Most of the model is 1mm formers and .6mm sticks. Some tricky bits to form the engine nacelles along the side of the body were made from laminations of soft 1mm balsa. I have not taken pics of much just some of the basic jig building and finished body parts.
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Savoia Marchetti S65
Savoia Marchetti S65
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lemuel
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« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2010, 02:54:37 AM »

Huge gap in the building but here is where I am as of Feb 10
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Re: Savoia Marchetti S65
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malc
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« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2010, 04:11:15 AM »

Ohh boy oh boy oh boy, I keep looking at the S65 and thinking how wonderful and impossible it would be to make a scale rubber model. Fantastic to see you taking the plunge. The float attachment looks soooo fragile, the rigging is going to have to work! Where did you get the plan, can I have a copy??!! Smiley What span is it? More pics please!

Malc.

P.S the stuff you have done looks great, nice and light.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 04:29:34 AM by malc » Logged
lemuel
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« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2010, 04:26:47 AM »

Thanks Malc for the interest. There will be beefing of structure going on soon. Just trying to figure out where everything connects now. I have to start covering soon. I will be probably printing the tissue on this one. So much work ahead but it will be worth it.

Just PM me your email address and I will forward the plan on to you.

regards
Matthew
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« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2010, 04:39:14 AM »

Cheers Mathew PM sent.

Are you going to power both ends? Separate motors or a single one between the two props?

M.
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« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2010, 04:41:17 AM »

I will have provisions for two rubber bands but I will start with one band running two props. I have some success with this on my lippisch P13a..

regards
Matthew
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« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2010, 05:26:06 AM »

Beautiful work, matthew.
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lemuel
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« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2010, 06:40:14 AM »

Thanks John, I have been staring at it a lot tonight, thinking "what the hell do I do next. Then I mock assembled it.. I think it looks nice.

regards
Matthew
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malc
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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2010, 08:31:13 AM »

I have been starring at it a lot tonight, thinking "what the hell do I do next".

I have done this so many times now, Can you guess what I forgot to put in the the plane?

Add in the motor peg attachment points, you said before you often forget them! Grin

M.

P.S. Looking even more fantastic in the all together.
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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2010, 12:48:20 PM »

Wow another schneider beauty!! Shocked Grin I am in heaven.

B
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« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2010, 01:43:19 PM »

Hi Matt,

Definitely got my attention as well. Beautiful work.
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lemuel
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« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2010, 03:58:28 PM »

It is really hard to decide what to do next. I can not attach the floats unless I cover the wing first. So it looks like it might be covering next? I will need to add some reinforcements for the float struts in key areas and also bracing in the floats where the struts attach.

regards
Matthew
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lemuel
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« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2010, 06:56:19 AM »

i did think of what to do next. The struts. Mr Nagayama who designed this beauty had a picture of it constructed with no covering fully assembled. I am not going to do that. I do need some help with ideas for strengthening the strut entry into the floats. Some sort of internal bracing would be needed. But it must be light weight... Here are some pics of the strut areas.
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« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2010, 03:47:23 PM »

Matt,

If you still have my email addy, send me a copy of the plan. Beautiful job on a ditto plane. Very thin carbon rods or strips (or even tow - my preference) on the struts to give more stability going all the way to the bottom of the sticks. Maybe some small pockets for the strut to plug into on the bottom of the former. It looks like the "entry" point is boxed in and with a carb reinforced strut going to the bottom of the float, it should be strong enough.

I think the real S-65 had some cable bracing between the floats and airframe.
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« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2010, 05:19:03 PM »

Matthew
Your pictures only shew us four struts going from fuselage to floats. Surely the plan must shew more, or else it is an even greater engineering nightmare than it looks at first sight – I would at least expect some cross members from float to float.

As Pit has already mentioned the struts will need some strength. With their length the bending loads will be high and like Pete I don't think that skinny balsa will do the job. Compared to the strut strength itself the joining of the strut to the float should be a piece of cake. I can see no way of joining the floats to the fuselage rigidly, that will withstand model aircraft type landings, without putting the weight out of bounds.

I think that one possible approach would be to make a rigid assembly of the floats and the struts and attach this to the fuselage with 'knock-off' attachments. Being young you would probably go for magnets whereas I would codge up something with rubber bands. Anyway I hope you find some way of finishing a very nice build.

John
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lemuel
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« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2010, 06:11:15 PM »

Thanks guys for your input. I must add that the balsa struts are made from seriously hard wood. I would estimate at being well past the guillows "IRON TREE" stock. They might break but I think that the fuselage and floats would go first. As far as rubber bands and magnets, I actually like the sound of the rubber bands. However in saying that I don't want to have a visible rubber band linkage.

Burnard suggested that I use a Flexible glue, more precisely the UHU clear variety. Flexible strong.

There is a lot that the plan does not tell you and I know there will be lots of modifications made in order for the plane to be somewhat robust.

regards
Matthew
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lemuel
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« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2010, 09:44:16 PM »

Added the wire now. This can solve some strength issues. Might even try and glue the float struts to the wire somehow internally.

regards
Matthew
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« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2010, 11:35:07 PM »

Matt... don't use wire (heavy). Use fine carbon.... get the thinnest stuff you can find.

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« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2010, 12:09:30 AM »

Kevlar thread would be even better. Great in tension and easily available (used for Fishing Fly tying).

Tony
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« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2010, 12:48:39 AM »

Any suggestions where to get carbon? kevlar from the local tackle shop perhaps...

regards
Matthew
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« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2010, 02:24:21 AM »

Hi Matthew,

I found this in another forum, it may be useful to you.

Malc.
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lemuel
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« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2010, 02:48:37 AM »

Nice find Malcolm! Thanks.

Hey BG, I weighed my wire and it doesn't register on my scale which weighs down to .1 grams... sweet. I think I won't worry.

I did some more work on the tail booms. I notched them into the trailing edge. it gave me a warm fuzzy feeling when they fitted so nicely.

Question for you balsa lord's. How the hell am I going to launch this thing? It will have to ROG. I have to hold 2 props and gently cradle the floats and then toss! aaargh.

regards
Matthew
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malc
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« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2010, 06:46:37 AM »

Question for you balsa lord's.. How the hell am I going to launch this thing? It will have to ROG. I have to hold 2 props and gently cradle the floats and then toss! aaargh.
Matthew

I was going to ask that! You are going to have to launch by holding the floats somehow, if you try to hold the fuse you are going to catch the rear prop/floats/struts/rigging/tail with your hand and cause it to dive on launch - not good. Personal experience of pushers....

The alternative would be to ROG (ROW?), with wheels buried in the floats. Just a couple of mm showing at the bottom. Try not to use a rolling cradle as they can be hard work and need trimming in their own right to get the 4 wheels to track in a straight line (more so than wheels attached to the model) as well as trying to accelerate the additional inertia. Also at initial liftoff the model tends to lift a bit then sink down on the back of the cradle in the wrong position and never regain the correct position for lift off. Seen it loads of times with scale power and electric models. My Dad put two thin wheels in each float of his electric Sopwith Schneider with great results after trying and abandoning a rolling cradle. You can see it ROG(W) and fly on Mike Stuarts web site.

Malc.
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lemuel
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« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2010, 07:07:33 AM »

I think that is going to be the plan Mal. Clear plastic wheels in the floats. A cradle would look cool but landings would/could be ugly...

regards
Matthew
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« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2010, 07:15:40 AM »

Way to go Mat. Link to the vid here:-

http://www.ffscale.co.uk/movies/sopwith.mpg

Picture here about half way down, you can just see the wheels in the floats

http://www.ffscale.co.uk/page3ii.htm

M.
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