Hip Pocket Builders' Forum

Control Line Forum => Mouse Racing => Topic started by: Mike Taylor on February 17, 2008, 12:32:34 PM



Title: Mice!
Post by: Mike Taylor on February 17, 2008, 12:32:34 PM
When I ran the Red Baron Hobby Shop in the 70's, we decided to help newby C/L fliers out. Each year, the weekend after Christmas we ran a clinic for new fliers who got models, whether they came from our shop or not. We required each kid to bring a parent and they learned to set up, start and fly their models. The next weekend, we ran a contest based on the Rat Racing rules, but for 1/2A models. Club members climbed on this event, and in 4 years our fastest speed for the 100 lap main event had risen from ~40 mph to close to 80 mph. We saw intense rivalries and some serious pushing of the rules. We wound up running 3 classes including an unlimited event for the TD .049s.

My planes started out rather normal (built up, tissue covered balsa models with FG cowling, and based on Keith Lauemr's 'Flea-Whiz') and eventually evolved into Litho-plate clad models with very little wood involved, and 1 was built around a magnesium speed pan. The solid balsa or aluminum wings and bass spars allowed me to fly the model hot into the pitman's glove, and I also rigged up pressurised syringe fuelers and a hot glove with wires running up his arm to the battery. It was very humorous to watch the other pitmen trying to pull off the same snag-in-on-the-fly-by-the-wing recovery stunt; most came up with just 1 wing :)

Here is a picture of my surviving models, much the worse for the years they lay in the top of the barn. The models shown are the 'Blue Mouse', 'Vanilla Gorilla', 'Mach Turtle', and 'Captain America'. The shorter out wing is not a result of the air-snagging recoveries - that was simply to keep lines tight without the added weight on the wingtip.


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: Sundance12 on February 18, 2008, 04:18:10 AM
Now that's a small batch of mice, I never expected mouse racing to be that popular, looks like you guys had allot of fun. I think it's a category that still has some following even these days, my buddy made his son a mouse racer so that they could get into some local competition. I will have to look into this class some more this season to keep up with them. Good job at promoting the hobby Mike, most hobby shops would not have gone that far, at least not the ones I grew up shopping at.

Cheers

Bruce


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: Mike Taylor on February 19, 2008, 09:00:36 AM
I think that we invented Mouse Racing for that beginner's event. No one had even heard of it before the thought occurred to scale down Rat Racers. A photographer/writer for one of the mags came by, took photos and wrote about it, and it caught on. Of course, it took 6 or 7 months for anything to appear in print in those days, so it could have been raging somewhere elsewhere without any of us knowing. That's what is so cool about the net - come up with an idea and share it immediately...


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: flinger on March 05, 2008, 03:59:20 PM
 ;D Hi there I'm flinger ( from my H/L Glider side ), As far as Mouse Racing is concerned there doesn't seem to be too much of it being flown.. My club does not do any with 1/2A Mouse racing only in combat ( which is a real blast ). It doesn't seem to popular in the Northeast or at least not to my knowledge. I have two more modern Mouse Racers on the workbench waiting for engine installation, I haven't figured out which engine(s) I am going to use---these are pretty standard as far as Mouse Racers go---with all basswood construction--mono landing gear etc. I have a set of plans I have made for another which will be sort of an F2CN configuration with a reinforced (flying wing) i.e spruce leading edge and either 1/4" or 3/8" balsa body with thin plywood doublers and also a single landing gear. This last baby won't be built for a while until I have finished off and tested the two on the bench---it's been a busy building winter so far. Besides which there are a couple of F/F ships also on the build me list. 8)


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: Mike Taylor on March 05, 2008, 09:03:50 PM
I'm glad to hear someone is still thinking about mouse racing. I will tell you that if your club has an event, 3 pilots duking it out in the circle at once, trying to pass over and/or under each other, rubbing shoulders for 100 laps is a GREAT crowd pleaser 8)


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: flinger on March 14, 2008, 06:58:04 PM
 ;D Probably the one way that you might stimulate Mouse Racing is to bring a couple down to the field and set a race with another pilot and two mechanics. However in my club, The Middlesex Modelers of NJ, they are fanatics for Clown and Foxberg, Warbirds; I guess some guys are into other types of T/R i.e. the various types of Rats so I guess they don't really want to mess with the .049's which are really a big pain in the backside. I am sure if some of them heard a Cyclon dial in however, their heads may perk up a bit. Frankly I think Mouse Racing is in the last stages of extremus and may die an eventual death---it isn't even very popular at the NATS. At best the enthusiasm and number of competitors is under whelming, but so has C/L Speed and Racing taken a National nosedive. It's not because the guys cannot tweak a good engine in Mouse II, but once again there doesn't seem to be a great love of the 1/2A. Now as for 1/2A engines I use most of mine in F/F; in my Dakota Biplane an OK Cub; or a 50's design 1/2A KIWI F/F-Norvel .049 Big Mig. Some guys in Clown T/R certainly go for some rather awesome brute engines, but not 1/2A. I dunno--- ???


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: JohnDowland on March 14, 2008, 08:56:15 PM
and based on Keith Lauemr's 'Flea-Whiz'


Mike, as a departure from everything, do you have a plan for this plane? I have been hunting for the plans from the Laumer book--have Pipsqueak, Buttons & Twin Lizzie now and would love this one. Or any others.

John


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: Mike Taylor on March 17, 2008, 06:48:54 PM
It is too big to post here; check your e-mail. I downloaded a number of other of KL's plans, but they were all corrupted >:(


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: Mike Taylor on March 17, 2008, 07:22:36 PM
Ah-Ha! Found the source -> http://my.pclink.com/~dfritzke/Laumer/Laumer-Page.html


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: RobC on July 17, 2008, 06:48:59 AM
I've got one that's not on that site Mike,

The GeeBee "Z" Sportster profile CL for ME Heron (1cc diesel). I should build it as I've got a spare DC doing nothing. I may send it along to him for the page.

Cheers,
Rob


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: Mike Taylor on July 17, 2008, 10:02:02 AM
Never, ever saw that one. Chance of getting a copy?


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: RobC on July 18, 2008, 06:48:16 AM
Yes mate, just PM your email address and voila.

I have no idea as to the source, it appears to be a single sheet, no date and no other clues. The 2 sheet pdf is only 259kb so quite small or the tiff & png files are 1.29Mb single sheets.

Cheers,
Rob


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: RobC on July 18, 2008, 07:47:47 PM
Mike,

I sent the plan to Dave Fritzke for his page and he's told me it was published in Aeromodeller. I've asked him for a copy of the accompanying article should it come to hand.

Email on the way.

Cheers,
Rob


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: Mike Taylor on July 18, 2008, 08:40:28 PM
Thanks, Rob, got it.

This one interests me since it is the only profile model model of his I have run across.


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: robert mathison on September 25, 2008, 03:56:12 PM
HI Mike,

Two club members were into 1/2A mouse, they were very good in good year and team racing. The only one active at the contest level is my son Joey Mathison, in speed events. The other two members are John Tate and Willis Swindell, age got us.

Bob


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: RobC on September 26, 2008, 07:10:18 PM
Mike,

I have the scanned original (Laumer GB) build article now, rather than transposed text. I found it online by chance so yell if you'd like a copy.

Cheers,
Rob


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: Alexandre Cruz on October 05, 2009, 10:13:47 PM
Could someone please post a picture of a Stratostreak 5?

I read a little about mouse racing but is is very hard to find information or pictures.

How popular is this event? How many people fly mouse racing?

My brother and I are playing with COX 049, we have built a couple of aerobatic models and some combat wings but no team racers so far.


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: RobC on October 14, 2009, 12:32:29 AM
I looked but couldn't find anything on the Stratostreak 5, just the original gas, free flight Stratostreak and the small cheap rubber one sorry.

Cheers,
Rob


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: blklion on October 30, 2009, 11:42:42 PM
I think that we invented Mouse Racing for that beginner's event. No one had even heard of it before the thought occurred to scale down Rat Racers.

My flying buddies and I (kids, back then) decided to try 1/2A rat race and scratch built some models just for that purpose. Biggest problem was that there were only 4 of us so it only became a 2 plane race each time. Tried it a couple of times but we lost interest.

Weeks went by and I entered an AMA sanctioned meet here in Illinois... combat being my interest. While waiting for the matches to begin they announced they were looking for more entries for the 1/2A speed contest... they only had two entries. I had the little rat racer with me so signed up, whacked off the LG and snipped off the inboard elevator. The elevator was two pieces of balsa with glued onto music wire that ran through the fuselage via a short length of brass tubing. Had to clip the inboard one because the control horn was on that side and kept the elevator on the plane.

It had a Spitzy .049 on it for power and I think it had a 5-6 prop on it. Anyway, I'd never flown on 35' lines before and it was a real surprise to me that thing actually flew and I had control. I clocked at 79+ mph and (go figure) took 3rd place out 4 entries. Won myself a Little Half Fast kit.

Here's the only pic of it I have. Blurry B&W but there she sits. This was back in 1959.


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: bigrip74 on August 21, 2011, 09:19:36 PM
Just found this website and came across this post which is close to my heart. After 40 years I decided to get back into the hobby, I flew Rat Race and Combat in the late 1960's and early 1970's. After visiting several control line club sites and hobby shops I thought that a mouse racer would be the bird to build and fly to get any flying and pit experiance back into shape. Now to find a good Cox Baby Bee .049 and some extra parts.

Bob


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: craig h on August 21, 2011, 09:44:28 PM
 Hello Bob....welcome back to the hobby....have you checked the site Cox International..I think you will find it interesting,


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: bigrip74 on August 21, 2011, 10:01:45 PM
@ craig h: I am still navigating in this new world of the control line hobby, it is nothing what I left. I will give Cox International a visit and I have looked at ebay for the engine listings which looks good for parts and an occasional Cox engine.

Bob


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: Sandgroper on June 04, 2012, 06:33:57 PM
Hi,
Brings back memories,we flew this class in Western Australia in the mid-late seventies,our model was a 13" span profile fuse mini rat racer with a TD 051,one wheel undercart and it  flew faster than the other models which were mostly mini Goodyears, but could never get a clean run from the tank I made.I pitted for my brother who now flies F2C.
I will try to dig out a photo
Cheers
Phil


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: bigrip74 on June 04, 2012, 06:41:38 PM
At: Sandgroper,

     Your mini rat sounds like the one that I took to the 1969 AMA nationals, I also will need to dig up the photo and will very much like to see yours.

Bob


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: GeoffinIN on January 12, 2013, 12:32:50 PM
I'm not sure if it was too early to be a mouse racer, but have any of you ever heard of a gorgeous little (14" span) 1/2 A racer called Dil-Bod?
Weird name, but pretty model.  Designed by George Milliken.  Might someone have a plan?  The original kit had no plan - just an instruction
sheet and assembly/setup drawings.

Geoff


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: bigrip74 on January 12, 2013, 12:44:47 PM
@ Geoff:

     It does not ring a bell, but the designer sounds familiar. I too would like to see a print or photo.

Bob


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: GeoffinIN on April 16, 2013, 09:54:03 PM
http://www.control-line.net/ic/newsletter/archive/year-2007/newsletter_2007_01.pdf  Scroll to the bottom


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: Paul-e on August 01, 2013, 10:47:54 AM
The plan for the Dil-Bod 1/2A Team Racer is in the Plan Gallery here on HPA.


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: GeoffinIN on August 14, 2013, 03:14:13 PM
Thanks for telling me, Paul.  I obtained the three-view and instructions from a kit that the AMA has (I live nearby) and have one 2/3 done.  I ran into a roadblock when it came time for a fuel tank.  Can't find one that small anywhere, and my attempts to build one have not been successful.  I may just make a built-in one from epoxy coated wood.

Geoff


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: GeoffinIN on June 25, 2014, 07:57:11 PM
It looks as if nobody reads this forum but I'll ask here anyway:  Does anyone have a very tiny fuel tank for sale?  My Dil-Bod needs a tank!  About 5/8" X 5/8" X 1/2" (15mm X15mm X 13mm)

Anybody?  Pleeeeze!?!?

Geoff


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: Paul-e on June 26, 2014, 12:51:09 AM
Geoff - Brodak has a one-third ounce rectangular tank.  Below is the link but no dimensions listed, you might have to call them and ask.  I bought one at Smith Bros Hobbies from Tony Nacarratto for a Dale Kirn Torquette Tee-Dee Biplane event promoted by Larry Renger (Criminy could I ever drop any more legendary names in one sentence!) and the tank was just a jewel.  If I am able in the next few days I will search my tank-stash for a tiny "Perfect" brand tank.  It might not match your dimensions exactly though...

Paul

http://brodak.com/fuel/fuel-tank/rect-fuel-tank-1-3-oz.html


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: mjmccarron on June 26, 2014, 01:27:24 AM
The Brodak tank is 5/8 x 11/16 x 13/16. May be a bit big for your application but they might be able to help you.


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: GeoffinIN on June 26, 2014, 03:20:05 AM
Thanks, you two!  I'll holler at Brodak and see what they can do.


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: billdennis747 on June 26, 2014, 03:37:07 AM
It looks as if nobody reads this forum but I'll ask here anyway:  Does anyone have a very tiny fuel tank for sale?  My Dil-Bod needs a tank!  About 5/8" X 5/8" X 1/2" (15mm X15mm X 13mm)

Geoff
I have no idea about this topic but I do know that the hinge part of an old cassette tape case can be cut up to make a tank with just those dimensions.


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: greggles47 on June 26, 2014, 07:48:25 PM
Geoff,

Ever thought of making your own tanks? A tank that small can be made from a cut up coffee tin and soldered together.

Pipes can be any configuration you like, but I find uniflow gives the most consistent run from go to whoa.

Regards

Greg


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: GeoffinIN on June 26, 2014, 09:21:30 PM
Greg, I did try to make a tank from aluminum (or is it aluminium in Oz?) roof flashing, but couldn't get a good seal, despite purchasing very expensive alloy solder and flux.  If Brodak can't help I may try making my own again.


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: mjmccarron on June 26, 2014, 09:27:45 PM
GeoffinIN,
I think aluminum might be the most difficult material to try to fab a tank from. As mentioned earlier, a coffee tin or even a soup can would be much easier to solder with standard plumbers solder. Another choice might be brass sheet such as shim stock. I have made several tanks with K&S shim stock over the years.
Mike


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: greggles47 on June 27, 2014, 09:13:03 AM
GeoffinIN,
I think aluminum might be the most difficult material to try to fab a tank from. As mentioned earlier, a coffee tin or even a soup can would be much easier to solder with standard plumbers solder. Another choice might be brass sheet such as shim stock. I have made several tanks with K&S shim stock over the years.
Mike

Mike & All,

I've never had it happen to me, but people (who should know these things) tell me that brass has a tendency to become brittle & crack over time. Have you any experience with that?

Greg


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: Paul-e on June 27, 2014, 10:14:49 AM
Mike & All,

I've never had it happen to me, but people (who should know these things) tell me that brass has a tendency to become brittle & crack over time. Have you any experience with that?

Greg

Large expanses of thin brass can flex (vibrate), work harden, and break.  As the expanse gets larger the brass gets more flexible unless the thickness is increased.  Conversely as the expanse gets smaller, like a tank for a Dil-bod, the walls get stiffer.

Therefore avoid super-thin brass, and avoid large expanses OR make them curved to stiffen them up and reduce movement.

I would not use ANY brass tank with a Fox .35 well known for their vibration level.  A 6oz. brass tank attached to a .40 might be worrisome over time.  A tank less than 1" cubed, especially attached to a 1/2A should not have the described problem at all.

Paul



Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: wordguy on June 27, 2014, 12:59:53 PM
Dear Old Dad used to make his tanks from the rectangular/cubic McCormick's spice cannisters.  Cut out the dispenser end, solder a flat plate, install tubes.

Ugly as heck but the price was right.


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: billdennis747 on June 27, 2014, 01:08:20 PM
It looks as if nobody reads this forum but I'll ask here anyway:  Does anyone have a very tiny fuel tank for sale?  My Dil-Bod needs a tank!  About 5/8" X 5/8" X 1/2" (15mm X15mm X 13mm)

Geoff
I have no idea about this topic but I do know that the hinge part of an old cassette tape case can be cut up to make a tank with just those dimensions.
Don't mention it.


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: RalphS on July 19, 2014, 10:05:45 AM
It looks as if nobody reads this forum but I'll ask here anyway:  Does anyone have a very tiny fuel tank for sale?  My Dil-Bod needs a tank!  About 5/8" X 5/8" X 1/2" (15mm X15mm X 13mm)

Geoff
I have no idea about this topic but I do know that the hinge part of an old cassette tape case can be cut up to make a tank with just those dimensions.
Don't mention it.
Is that similar to the pearl type?


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: Geoff. Potter on October 20, 2014, 01:46:43 AM
I make all my small tanks out of balsa ,works a treat with alum. pipes. Last small one was 1/2x1/2 x5/8 took me 5 minutes . Geoff.


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: Paul-e on October 20, 2014, 10:57:09 AM
I make all my small tanks out of balsa ,works a treat with alum. pipes. Last small one was 1/2x1/2 x5/8 took me 5 minutes . Geoff.

Geoff - Balsa is not fuel-proof (look at me sounding like I know what I'm talking about!).  Could you please explain your process for building a tank out of balsa?  Or do a build-thread with pictures?  Either would be great for us newbies.  Thanks!  Paul


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: perttime on October 20, 2014, 12:07:43 PM
I recall seeing photos of a balsa tank. It was lined with something. Details escape me now...


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: Geoff. Potter on October 21, 2014, 06:31:03 AM
My god this amazes me ,all my TR models had balsa tanks for years like from 1965 . It's not new technology,and I don't know how to start a thread on here but will see if I can post pictures after this . For diesels I simply make the shape I want out of1/16 balsa for the bottom then cut 4 sides ,on ff models I only cut three sides , I use the model for the other. I then glue it all together to form a box without a lid with PINK ZAP . Then I put the aluminium tubes where I want them to be ( all shapes bent before fitting ) and then glue in place . I then put a dob of 5 min epoxy on the back of entry into tank and the end to give  it a bit of support in the tank . I check all joints to make sure their good and then I. PINK ZAP  the whole inside ,check all pipes as you go you don't want zap in them . When your happy with the job ,and use it sparingly , then make the top to sit on then Zap the inside of it and put on . If you have done a good job it will be sealed and ready to fit on or in the model , I check by sealing the pipes and putting fuel tube on one and sucking a vacuum .if it leaks find it and zap it. Make sure you don't suck the zap into your mouth ,it's not a good taste . For glo engines I do exactly the same  only I use 5 min epoxy to build and EPIGLASS HT 9000 to seal so it takes 24 hrs to go off . I have tanks in models that are 20 years old and still work great . Hope this helps you guys ,I'm not certain I can do pictures but will try f you find you need them . Sorry I don't just make square ,round ,teardrop ,coffin , what ever one can bend balsa to. Geoff


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: Paul-e on October 21, 2014, 11:26:35 AM
Pink Zap, or any other "super" glue, has not been around since 1965, Geoff.  What did you use on your Team Race diesel tanks before cyanoacrylate was commercially available?

Also the Epiglass HT 9000 24-hour epoxy you mentioned is $115-USD for one gallon.  Are you a yacht builder?  Or do you use large quantities for something else.

Paul


Title: Re: Mice!
Post by: Geoff. Potter on October 21, 2014, 06:19:36 PM
Because I only use diesels for TR in those days (still do) I used Tarzans Grip and shrinking dope ,or Crispen ,couldn't afford a soldering iron and models and balsa as well.  HT 9000 I buy in 1/2 liter containers at a boat shop ,is a great epoxy and cheap .use it for making my own race props as well,and build with and fuselage shells ,propellor moulds,glass sheet (carbon or ordinary ) just about anything I can think of .  Geoff.