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Control Line Forum => Sport => Topic started by: robert mathison on September 28, 2008, 05:45:48 PM



Title: Biplanes
Post by: robert mathison on September 28, 2008, 05:45:48 PM
HI All,

I like biplane's and my flying buddy Willis Swendell sent me a great photo of his biplane, they are great fun planes. and I would like to see your Slob, send a photo.

Bob


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: robert mathison on October 09, 2008, 04:57:26 PM
This is a great flying biplane it is the 38 SPICAL , I will get some more photos of it.

Bob


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: robert mathison on October 27, 2008, 03:53:17 PM
Sunday was a great day for flying control line plane's, here is a photo of one.

Bob


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: robert mathison on November 10, 2008, 06:51:07 AM
Sunday was a great day for flying control line Biplanes.

Bob


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: robert mathison on January 03, 2009, 07:27:39 AM
This photo was sent to me from our control line flying buddies up north, how can you tell?

Bob


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: 50+AirYears on January 31, 2009, 06:42:40 PM
Still trying to find time to either build the Flying Fool I have NIB, or rebuild the mess someone gave me a few years ago. I really loved the first one I had.


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: robert mathison on February 03, 2009, 09:29:04 AM
This is a photo of Joey Mathison flying his slob Sunday in Vegas, looks warm there.

Bob


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: Sundance12 on February 05, 2009, 09:18:46 PM
And who says you can't do 3D in control line airplane flying, great picture and looks like fun.

Sundance12


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: robert mathison on April 12, 2009, 07:15:49 PM
This biplane was sent to me from my penpal from down under.

Bob


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: 50+AirYears on April 13, 2009, 02:43:35 PM
Hey, Sundance, do you mean to tell me back in the late 50s and early 60s, when we were doing Sabre Dance and tail slides with our ukies, we were doing 3D? Who'da thought!

My old Sterling Flying Fool was great for this on a Fox .19. While the guys in the local club would do the SD by running their .35s super rich and staggering through the air, that FF at regular needle setting could do loops, wingovers, and such, but after either doing some consecutive loops, or a few waves, just a quick pull and hold on full up would stand that bipe on it's tail and let it hang on the prop in a full stall, sometimes, depending on wind, bouncing up and down. Just a quick neutralization of the elevator would allow full recovery.

Funny thing is, it flew the same on that .19 and a 9-4 prop as it did with the Fox Stunt .35 with a 10-6. I even think the flight time was the same with the 4 ounce tank. Those were the days!

I GOT to either repair the salvage FF I have, or build up the kit.

An old friend of mine (father of a boyhood friend, actually) actually had a pre-kit Flying Fool built from a magazine plan. Main difference between it and the kit was his had a raised turtle deck behind the cockpit, instead of having a level top with a carved headrest.


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: robert mathison on April 16, 2009, 04:22:59 PM
This is a great looking biplane from down under.

Bob


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: robert mathison on April 16, 2009, 04:28:46 PM
This one just came though, it is a very good looking biplane.

Bob.


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: 50+AirYears on April 16, 2009, 04:44:47 PM
Has anyody there built a Bi-Liner from Feb 1958 Flying models, or the Larry Scarinzi Queen Bee for Pee Wee .020 from the June 1960 MAN, or the Lynx Mk II from American Aircraft Modeler? I started a Bi-Liner in 1963, but work and college, then a stint in the USAF got me off track on it. It seems to have disappeared about 1965 - 66 while I was in North Africa. Along with a collection of first years copies of most of the Marvel comics I had, and a bunch of old WW-II era model airplane mags I used to have.

Only flyable CL bipe I have right now is a Pee Wee powered Nieuport 17 from full size plans in an old FM. I think the engine doesn't trust me. Starts and runs just fine at home or at the field, as long as I don't have lines on it.

Does it know something I don't? Or is it that it just doesn't trust me?


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: tejician1 on May 09, 2009, 01:09:49 PM
Don't know if any of you guys have seen what a World Champion CL combat flyer can do with a garden variety Bi Slob. This video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDwfn-OKELM#noexternalembed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDwfn-OKELM#noexternalembed) will knock your sox off !! A good flying friend & buddy, Pat Wilcox (AMA avp Dist VIII ) from Houston, Tx will show you some top notch Bi Slobbin' to some great music. I own 2 Bi Slobs myself and have been able to do some pretty incredible & nutty stunts with both, can you imagine, doing a tight loop, stopping, backing up, touching the tail, climb 10 feet, stop and backup once more...touch the tail, go to full down elevator into a touch n' go and resume some of the best CL sport 3D flying you will ever experience. I feel I must warn you, your face will ache and hurt from smiling and grinning so much after flying a Bi Slob...some pilots have been observed to fall to the ground from laughing & giggling so hard while flying the little bipe, it's highly infectious. BTW, the Bi Slob makes a great CL trainer too. ;D


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: The Kiwi on May 19, 2009, 11:43:59 AM
Still trying to find time to either build the Flying Fool I have NIB, or rebuild the mess someone gave me a few years ago. I really loved the first one I had.

The Flying Fools I recall best had a Sterling trait regarding upper wings. The same way that a veteran old Ringmaster was likely to shed its outboard wing, a Flying Fool would fly out from under its top wing!


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: 50+AirYears on May 19, 2009, 11:51:48 AM
Never saw that on the Flying Fool, but it did happen on a Sterling SE-5 I had. Funniest thing about that was that it flew the same with and without the upper wing.


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: robert mathison on May 20, 2009, 05:47:03 AM
The first Flying Fool I had was over powered with a FOX.35 and I did not know the location of the C/G , I later found out it was very nose heavy while flying it. when the engine quit it turned into a brick and fell out of the air, after trying to get it to land with out rolling over & over from a high point when the engine cutoff I would have it just a few feet off the ground when the engine cutoff and it did the same thing . never did add tail weight.

Bob


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: jam486 on June 25, 2009, 07:06:24 PM
i like biplanes i fly !/2A due to space constraints so heres a guillows sopwith camel and a sig staggerwing with cox .049 engines they fly great on 25 to 30 foot lines


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: Aeronut on June 25, 2009, 09:13:05 PM
Biplanes are my favorites too! They come in all sizes. Here is my Sorta Dakota Bipe at 6" wing span! Flys great! :)


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: sleepy gomez on November 09, 2009, 10:38:26 PM
I too have a soft spot for biplanes. Here are pictures of my DoubleTime. OS 40, 710 sq in, 48 ounces. Foam wings and tail. Covering is oo silkspan/50-50 mix Elmers and water. Color is Home Depot acrylic latex. Final coat is Minwax polyurethane.


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: robert mathison on November 11, 2009, 06:54:44 AM
HI Sleepy,

With the price of clear dope @ $24.00 a QT. I think I will try your stuff out, how much weight will it add to a stunt ship?

Bob


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: The Kiwi on June 06, 2010, 05:50:29 PM
I am on the verge of ordering one or the other of the Black Hawk WW-I bipes; if I get the Spad, I will modify it into a Sopwith Camel, however.


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: The Kiwi on June 13, 2010, 05:56:29 PM
I must say, the message traffic in the CL oriented area is really low. That's a shame! There still isn't a proper place to go for nostalgia since Isky's general forum had to shut down, followed eventually by Flight Lines. Stuka Stunt doesn't count, with its Prima Donnas and constant flame fests.


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: sleepy gomez on June 13, 2010, 06:42:25 PM
I suggested to the moderator in an email that the title as it appears on Google needs to be changed. As it is if you Google this forum it looks like free flight only. Maybe if enough emailed the moderator it might change.

SLEEPY


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: The Kiwi on June 13, 2010, 10:22:35 PM
 :( I miss the interaction that the friendlier forums offered. With so few people still doing CL, there aren't enough here in a city of a million population to support a club, and I have no good friends among the very few still active, besides my kid, and he's so dedicated to CL combat, it's practically impossible to discuss any other model area with him any more.

He gave me such an odd look when I said I wanted to convert a Spad into a Camel . .

Kiwi


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: C/L Gee Bee on March 30, 2011, 11:30:58 AM
I've favored C/L Biplanes since my Ringmaster days. (1955 to recent) Some of them were the 'C' series Sterling Nieuport, profile Spad & Fokker D Vlls, and a Ringmaster S1 that I converted with a pair of Jr. Satan wings. (Twin Kit that Sheldon's was selling on a Control Line kit clearance: $6.95!)

Numerous Flying Fools, always the inevitable 'hunting', however slight; but it was always there. Loved that combo with Fox .35, then .36X for WAM 'Air Race'...(not a winner, but always a 'favorite' with the spectators)
 
Built a large profile bipe from scratch: Fuse was 28" long, used another Flying Wing Double kit: Riley Wooten's Combat Cats. The lower wing was shortened, 2 rib bays on the left and one on the right. This enabled me to offset the upper rib positions from the lowers: both wings centered, but lower wing's ribs in between the upper's from top or bottom view...

Ribs, spars, leading & trailing edges were fitted then wood stained with dark walnut. Wings were then assembled with double ribs at cabane strut stations, center and outers. Fuse was painted lemon yellow, and wings were covered with clear transparent Fas-Cal. Fox .40 was used, airplane was light.

It was extremely 'showy' in the air...tracked nicely, then a snap wingover showed all those blackish ribs!  (the 'offset' made them look like there were a hundred or more... an old trick with the visual perception I discovered when louvering hoods and deck lids on hot rods: offsetting every other row seemed to increase their numbers.)

Most recent biplane was another 'C' class profile, made from an upside-down "Sabre Stunt" fuse, cut an open cockpit, 30" wingspan upper, 27" lower. Upper wing was attached securely to the center cabane with horizontal screws, trailing one slotted, #4-40 R/C control rods with clevises at the outer cabanes. Upper wing incidence adjustable, for experimental purposes. (final perfect tracking was achieved with 1 degree NEGATIVE incidence on top wing, lower at zero. When set up at zero/zero, some buffeting at the trailing edge made level flight unstable.

Test was repeated many times, each adjustment recorded. 'Experts' argue for zero incidence, but they're the same ones that tout Chevrolet's superiority in automotive engineering. I say 'Do the research!'

Power was from an OS .40 Four Stroke, the most steady running model engine I've ever run.

Backfires when starting lost the prop nut a few times, but that was 'field-remedied' by sliding a short stub of silicone fuel hose onto the threads ahead of the nut. It never even loosened it up after that! (strange but true)

Biplanes are unique, and a challenge. Current Bipe project is a Coon Dog, a fat cabin bipe... Just Cool!


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: perttime on March 30, 2011, 03:40:16 PM
I don't have a bipe but I am sure I will...

Small? Minnesotamodeler has a kit for the Queen Bee. I think there's a scan of the plan somewhere in the interwebs too.

Not quite small? Replikit has plans and kits (or is it short kits?) for Keil Kraft Scout.

Big? John Miller (Cadclassics) has designed a modern Stunt Bipe. I think he has not built it yet, though.


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: sleepy gomez on April 05, 2011, 12:04:28 AM
Yes, real airplanes have two wings!


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: C/L Gee Bee on November 08, 2011, 06:30:39 PM
A nice gent I did some business with (sold him an older Super Tiger .35 he had been looking for) asked if I'd like an old Sig Biplane.  I said 'Of Course!',  and he sent a package to me.
When I opened it, there was a new Sig Profile Spad Vll, and in the other bag there was a Sig Fokker D-Vll. Both 'C' class, and complete...just no boxes.
I had a Spad in '73, and my flying buds built them too. Mortal Combat, in slow motion! I repaired mine after a few midairs, and had it until just a couple of years ago, donated it to a young fellow that did a nice rebuild on it, still flies it.

I'm anxious to get back to Bipes. Great thread!


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: Air-Fan on July 24, 2012, 09:31:42 PM
Hi,
I'm new to HPA forum.  I saw this thread and thought I'd share.  My favorite biplane is the Great Lakes 2T-1, mostly because I actually had a chance to fly in one back in 1987, a long time ago right!  Anyway, I built a ~3/4" scale version of the Great Lakes.  It is 20" wingspan and powered by a cox Black widow.  With solid wings its a little underpowered for stunts which resulted in a crash out of a loop and a rebuild.  The flying picture is the before (2010) and the static picture is after the rebuild (2011).


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: C/L Gee Bee on July 25, 2012, 11:18:57 AM
That's a beautiful Great Lakes, Air Fan. (I have a Sterling kit I have to duplicate, the balsa is heavy as ironwood)
The swept top wing was a favorite of mine...

Are you thinking of a larger powerplant? The flying pic looks great!


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: Air-Fan on July 25, 2012, 10:34:22 PM
C/L Gee Bee,
Thanks for the feedback on my Great Lakes.  I built it from the Flyline plans that I had reduced by half at staples.  I haven't flown the Lakes since the rebuild but I've thought about it.  But as you suggest, it needs more power.  I'd like to mount a .074 engine but the problem is that I need an engine with an integral fuel tank like the Black Widow as there is no room for a fuel tank inside the fuselage.  Any Suggestions would be welcome.


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: Keithhs on August 07, 2012, 12:42:41 AM
Just happened to stumble on to this thread. I love CL biplanes. The first one I ever built was many years ago, a Flying Fool. On the first flight it jettisoned the top wing. Some 40 years later when I got back in to CL I got a Bi-Slob, 38 Special and I scratch built another Flying Fool. I made the plywood wing struts long enough that the extended all the way through the wing ribs and epoxied them in...


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: sleepy gomez on August 11, 2012, 12:53:53 AM
Will a triplane count in this category?  I'm building one now.  40" span each wing, 877 wing area, no stagger, heavy OS 61 since very short nose.  Original design for stunt.  Target weight is 59 ounces.  Resembles (way far off scale) Fokker Triplane.  If there is interest I'll keep up with photos and flight. 

        Sleepy Gomez  515 s. Main   Rising Star Tx.     863-899-0656   [email protected]


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: perttime on August 11, 2012, 07:04:53 AM
Why not...
... anything to keep the thread going, as long as it has more than one wing  :D


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: wreckbender on August 11, 2012, 07:08:31 AM
Yes, sounds very intresting. I would like to see photos of her.


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: Air-Fan on October 10, 2012, 10:06:43 PM
Hi,
Here is a Blackhawk/Scientific/Musciano Thunderbird I just finished.  It is for fun and maybe one of the Musciano commemorative events.  I lightened it on the inside but it still weighs 7oz RTF as in the picture.  If I build another one my target weight will be 5oz RTF.


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: OZPAF on October 11, 2012, 08:12:46 AM
This is an old(approx 20yrs0 profile semi scale camel complete with Snoopy. 18' WS built up wings covered in tissue/doped and finished in enamel. it's powered by a ED Bee mk1 and flew well on 35' lines but was not aerobatic.
It hasn't flown for years.
John


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: Modelace on October 11, 2012, 10:31:06 AM
18' wingspan??


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: OZPAF on October 11, 2012, 07:26:28 PM
Whoops! Lousy typist - more like 18" - 450mm. I'd love to see a 1cc Diesel fly a 18 foot wingspan airraft ;D
John


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: CeeJay Flyer on October 12, 2012, 03:23:54 AM
I'd like to see you hanging onto the handle!! :)  :)



Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: Believer on June 21, 2013, 09:23:14 PM
I too have a soft spot for biplanes. Here are pictures of my DoubleTime. OS 40, 710 sq in, 48 ounces. Foam wings and tail. Covering is oo silkspan/50-50 mix Elmers and water. Color is Home Depot acrylic latex. Final coat is Minwax polyurethane.

Sleepy,

How fuel proof is the polyurethane top coat?  Are you using the water based?  The only bipe I have is a Goldberg Lil Toot that I'm working on.  Power will be a TD .020 and about 30' Spiderwire lines.

Thanks,
Brian


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: sleepy gomez on June 22, 2013, 09:12:48 PM
polyurethane YES  Polycrylic NO      Polycrylic is water based and is not fuel proof


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: Garf on October 30, 2013, 09:51:07 PM
Someone gave me a BiPlane he called the Dreamer that he wanted me to test for him. I attached an Evolution 46 that I wanted to test run. That thing jumped off the ground. It needs trimming, but will be tried again.


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: flyingagin on December 26, 2013, 07:53:19 PM
I have a Bi plane under construction. A Ring Master variant. I am using Brodak RM Jr ribs, but some new bigger ones at the center section to bring the wing spans up to 36" not counting wing tips. 7.75" roots and 6" tips. So right at 500 square inches. Power will be a Super Tiger .34 with 2.4 throttle control.

Full built up fuse, stretched more than a normal RM. Wings will be removable. Tail feathers normal RM out line, just sized for the wing area.

Long ways to go yet.

Ken


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: sleepy gomez on December 26, 2013, 08:07:48 PM
I always love biplanes.  With twice wingers keep them simple and light.  No flaps.  Keep the Tail Volume Co-efficient to around 3.9 to 4.2.  In the formula measure of chord, use birds eye view of the wing stagger, if any.


Title: Re: Biplanes
Post by: JEM on December 27, 2013, 12:08:24 AM
Just thought I'd throw in a pic of my 'Slob.