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Indoor Free Flight Forum => Scale, Indoor => Topic started by: g_kandylakis on July 24, 2013, 01:16:50 PM



Title: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on July 24, 2013, 01:16:50 PM
Not exactly a new build, this models was started about 1 1/2 years ago.

The initial thread was posted in SFA, but this is soon getting abandoned by everybody. There are some threads I would not want to see disappear, so some will be copied to HPA as well and will continue here. The Avro F is one of them.

(The original thread (for as long as the forum might exist) is here: http://www.smallflyingartsforum.com/YaBB.pl?num=1328218703/0)

A quick "replay"...

The AVRO F has long been a favourite of mine, ever since I saw a picture of Ron Limbrick's peanut in Bill Hannan's "Peanut Power". I built it as a peanut in 1987 and then again in 1988, since the first did not fly properly. The model has been active until 2007 and is now retired.

I have been meaning to build a newer one  for quite some time now (years to be exact). And since I lack a suitable model for the F4D class, it was my plan to make it a rubber powered 1/20 scale.

My main obstacle was to create a correct 3-view drawing, based on the many new photographs I have collected over the years. The drawing has been completed and was published in the May 2012 issue of WW1 Aero. That took care of the documentation issue  ;D

Two rather innovative technologies were used, laser cutting for the wing ribs and 3-D printing for the dummy engine. The latter deserves a separate thread, somewhere in the "How to" section.

So, to begin with, here is a photo of my 1988 peanut


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on July 24, 2013, 01:22:27 PM
On with the wing construction.

I did some experimenting with cutting offsets and designs, before finally arriving to an acceptable result.


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on July 24, 2013, 01:26:53 PM
the final rib outline, with lightening holes... Not necessary, but nice...


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on July 24, 2013, 01:28:11 PM
finished main wing structure


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on July 24, 2013, 01:31:36 PM
fuselage frame was a basic box.

Longerons were made of basswood, split at one end and laminated to the proper curved shape. the advantage of this was that the shape was retained and the frame was completely stress-free.


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on July 24, 2013, 01:40:10 PM
tail surfaces, rudder in this instance.

Outlines of laminated basswood, balsa structure.
With proper soaking, the outline presented virtually zero spring-back...


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: Monz on July 24, 2013, 01:47:27 PM
Hi George! Good to see you over here  :)



Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on July 24, 2013, 01:59:18 PM
Hi Monique, I know we won't get lost  ;)

A short brake from the main parts and work was diverted to the spoked wheels and landing gear.

The wheels were a result of plenty of thought, in order to arrive at a realistic result. 3-D printing was used for the main parts of the wheel, together with a lot of patience and care. The result was worth it  :)


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on July 24, 2013, 02:02:04 PM
and painted...

It is nice re-posting everything in such a rate. Makes me forget all the failed attempts, the thinking pauses, the occasional disappointment  ;D


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: billdennis747 on July 24, 2013, 03:30:41 PM
Hi George,
OK here goes - I'm not sure I agree with 3D printing techniques being used in competition models against those using traditional, manual methods.
Bill


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: Rich Moore on July 24, 2013, 04:01:26 PM
3D printing - that sounds like a debate waiting to happen - perhaps worth a thread on its own?


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on July 24, 2013, 04:02:57 PM
Hi Bill,

Fair enough. It has been a concern of mine as well. how far can machines assist us in a hobby that is about skill.

In the end, I opted for yes, for the following reasons (regardless of order):

  • The parts were created by me in a CAD program and not purchased as ready-made
  • They required a great deal of time and experimenting to get the process right
  • They required a great deal of skill and effort to build them to the final result (I am sure not everybody could arrive to the same result)
  • They looked very-very good, close to perfect. No way I could arrive to a similar result in any other way and I didn't want to settle for much less
  • They were a ground-braking technology with many uses in our hobby
  • Anyone with the proper skills and experience could-can do it, it is not a closed secret


In return, I have the following questions, which for me present an analogy:

Do you also feel the same for:
photo-etched parts, created from own drawings but etched by a specialist?
computer printed tissue?
and finally, computer printed decals?

Especially in the last I see a great many similarities. It is now possible to tackle even the most  complex decoration through an image software (analog to a 3D modelling software) and a printer (analog to, well, a 3-D printer  ;D). Would then hand painting with a brush have to be the only option?

Best regards,

George

P.S.
I opened the same subject in SFA, back then when I started messing with these things:
http://www.smallflyingartsforum.com/YaBB.pl?num=1317893586/0

and the original link for the 3-D printing process (soon to be repeated here, at some time for those who might be interested)
http://www.smallflyingartsforum.com/YaBB.pl?num=1318607847

P.S.2 Yes, F.D., this alone deserves a topic on its own...


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: Monz on July 24, 2013, 04:06:45 PM
Hi George,
OK here goes - I'm not sure I agree with 3D printing techniques being used in competition models against those using traditional, manual methods.
Bill

How is it different to someone competing with purchased spoked wheels? That's what the declaration forms are for.

George did all the 3D modelling himself, with which the printer can't operate without, which is a modelling skill in itself :)


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: billdennis747 on July 24, 2013, 04:59:40 PM

In return, I have the following questions, which for me present an analogy:

Do you also feel the same for:
photo-etched parts, created from own drawings but etched by a specialist?
computer printed tissue?
and finally, computer printed decals?



George,
Ironically, I was just fiddling about with some computer printed tissue! The problem for the judges is how much, if anything, to deduct from a score in light of the declaration. In practice, it will not be very much. And I think a 3D printed engine, while incredibly clever and realistic, is taking things into a new realm.
Maybe I've been at it too long, but I would value a dummy engine created by hand more than one created on a screen.
best wishes
Bill


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: FreeFlightModeller on July 24, 2013, 06:28:37 PM
I must admit that, as much as I work in the world of CAD and CNC, I do have reservations about the use of 3D printers myself.
However, as long as a fair way of treating such items is arrived at, I see no reason to go so far as to exclude such technologies.

I'm sure that we have all used ready made items such as those produced by Williams etc.? ... I would put what George has produced as far more 'BOM' than these items.
The items produced are just plain resin too ..... George's skill is shown in the 'traditional manner' with respect to finishing, so there is still plenty of scope for scoring such things.


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: Andy Sephton on July 25, 2013, 03:49:14 AM
Use of computer derived parts, masks etc is currently being looked at by the UK Scale Tech Committee. It'll probably take the form of a declaration by the modeller with appropriate advice for the judges in the judges guides.

I'm with Bill in that I would give more value to a hand made part than one printed by a computer. I agree that creating the master file takes skill as does finishing the model, but the accuracy of repetition made avaible by the computer and the precision of the parts produced is way ahead of what can be produced by hand.

As an example, I create masks for my markings using a CAD programme and a cutter plotter. Both were relatively inexpensive. Drawing a line on the computer is much easier and far more accurate than drawing it by hand. Cutting a mask to that line is difficult by hand, but it only takes a button press on the computer. Further, I can repeat cut the masks to any size and as many times as I want in minutes with little to no effort or skill. I enjoy the process, but hand made masks take a lot more time and skill to produce than those I produce on the computer and therefore, should accrue more marks in static judging.


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: billdennis747 on July 25, 2013, 05:05:05 AM
Scale modellers have always looked for ways to make models easier to build or more accurate, although in my case, it is looking for aluminium teapots to convert into a cowling, rather than learning CAD. The Williams cylinders that form the basis for many a dummy engine were another leap forward. I don't know much about 3D printing or CAD markings etc but we seem to be at the steep end of an exponential curve, where ultimately we will be designing a model at a computer and pressing a button.

Yes, I do know what the declaration form is for. It's what you do with it that is the problem. However, experience shows that we will be jumping about over this for a while but when it comes to competition flying, it is usually the models that fly well that rise to the top.

As Dragon says, maybe this needs a separate thread if it is to continue.
Bill


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: Laurence Marks on July 25, 2013, 05:25:39 AM
I personally think that it will be some time before 3D printing moves out of the dummy engine, pilot, small detail stuff towards anything more critical in terms of the overall aircraft.  But agree that we need to distinguish between the handbuilt and rp'd.  There should also be a distinction between things that the entrant has CAD modelled and created themselves and designs they've borrowed, stolen or bought.  Really ought to do some work now...


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: Andy Sephton on July 25, 2013, 05:43:21 AM
I've started another thread on electronic input to model building - http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=15033.0 - so we can now get back to topic.

I have to say that I witnessed George creating the Avro on another Forum and had a close look at it at the BMFA Scale Indoor Nats in the UK. It is quite simply an exquisite example of the scale modellers art. So notwithstanding what has been said above about computer input and all, Very Well Done George!

Andy


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on July 25, 2013, 05:44:24 PM
Thanks for opening the new thread, Andy.

I don't mind the deviation, I only agree it is better to discuss the matter  as an independent issue...

Back to the thread, with limited computer aid this time, a jig for determining the proper landing gear struts etc. All l.g. members are basswood, the skid beeing laminated strips.

The jig essentially repilcates the fuselage location points and helps align everything in place without having everything in the air...


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on July 25, 2013, 05:48:00 PM
Framework amost completed, time for a test assemby and some pictures...


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on July 25, 2013, 05:52:02 PM
There is that engine again. The photo shows the basswood dummy engine bearers.

Extensive used was made of basswood for all visible wood parts. The very fine grain, coupled with wood varnish, makes a much more realistic finish comared to balsa. I first saw basswood in Charlie Newman's S.E.5 back in 1995 and was stunned by the finish (not to mention the S.E.5...)

Flying surfaces covered with pre-shrunk tissue, then shrunk again.

Wings had to be done 2-3 times to get rid of some wraps, especially the trailing edge proved too thin-soft and bent upwards. With a little negative curvature during drying, this was eventually cured.


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on July 25, 2013, 05:56:16 PM
and the tail surfaces...


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on July 25, 2013, 06:07:29 PM
The simulation of the fuselage lacing was another intersting little problem. Of the small unimportant details that I just wanted to do as realistc as possible...

The way I thought, was to do actual lacing through printer paper. The paper (printed with the lacing layout) was soaked in CA, then the holes were drilled with fine drill bits, everything glued on a frame to gain some rigidity and thin thread was laced through. Once done, everything was sealed with glue, than the two strips were cut from the rest and glued to the fuselage.

The fuselage has in the meantime been varnished to resemble the ash of the original. Also the support for the tail surfaces, made of basswood and tissue tubes


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on July 27, 2013, 06:38:13 AM
Looking back at some of my posts, I see various small typos, result of haste. Please ignore them... I cannot correct them now  :-[

Back to the model, the landing skid had a steel protective plate, with a rather curved shape, so for this I chose vacuum forming with a simple balsa form. Final trimming was with sanding, using the skid as a guide for the outline.

Sorry, no picture of the plastic right after vacuum forming, too eager to see the end result ...


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on July 27, 2013, 07:05:46 AM
The Avro is basically a very simple plane, a mid-wing monoplane, nothing fancy.

But there are some areas that go well out of the ordinary. One of these was the front fuselage aluminium cladding. 1/3rd of the fuselage is done like that. To add to the problem, the cladding is full of windows. And to make matters worse, each window is surrounded by a black frame. And since there is so much transparency, even the opposite inside sides are visible...

My chosen way was to make a sandwich for each panel, made of plain paper with clear acetate in between. The window layout was printed on the paper, next each piece was folded and each window hole was cut with a sharp knife and ruler. Rivets were recreated with simple embossing brom the inside. Next it was painted with aluminium paint. Auxiliary help lines, indicating the position of each black line, were masked during painting and used as guidelines (literally ?) for the black frames. One or two small errors were corrected with some touching up. One panel had to be redone...


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on July 27, 2013, 07:20:07 AM
For the front bearing, I chose to try something new and maybe a little excessive for the size/type... The use of ball bearings. The front was attached on the front end of the crankcase, the rear on a plate that was made movable and can be adjusted for thrust changes. The pictured prop hook has been replaced by an S-hook.

Another new thing I wanted to try, was the result of many frustrating moments during contests. I always go to contests with new, usually untrimmed models (I know, I am not the only one...)
I do my test trimming and at the same time the model is needed for scale judging. So, I have to remove the flying prop and add the dummy scale prop... So, I cut the prop wire, remove everything etc. Then, I have to redo everything. It might happen 1-2 times during the day, which is devastating enough, especially with the lack of calmness at those times.

So, I thought of a way to make the prop removable, through a front screw, same as is done for CO2 motors. All this involved was to glue an aluminium tubing length to the hook wire (halfway in the wire). The tube was first given an internal thread, to match the small screws I had. It worked perfectly. More details when I take pictures of this and post them, it will be more clear. No time now...

George


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: dputt7 on July 27, 2013, 08:58:52 AM
Hi George
Thanks for detailing such an excellent build, your approach to the "everyday construction" is superb. Simple ideas as soaking the paper with Cyno before you drill the holes is brilliant, no furry holes. I also like your U/C jig, great ideas, not to mention the mind-blowing CAD and 3-D printed parts, something to aspire too. Kudos
Dave


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on July 28, 2013, 01:06:54 PM
Thanks Dave,

I like documenting some of the ways I use. Helpful for others, as are other inputs helpful to me...

Here are some pictures of the rather different approach I used for the front end of the prop hook assembly.

As I wrote in my previous post, seeing how easy it is to switch props in CO2 motors, I thought of finding a similar way for rubber powered models. Not necessary for everyday use, it is certainly handy in a competition model where a dummy prop is needed for judging. Also useful for changing and trying out different props during triming.

To achieve this, a screw thread is needed somewhere. First thought was an external thread, a piece of aluminium tubing, threaded on the outside and glued to the propeller shaft wire. A hexagonal nut would take care of the fixing.

The other option was an internal thread, in the same manner as a CO2 engine hollow crankshaft. For this the aluminium tubing needs to be threaded inside.

In either case, it is important and necessary to have a back plate, strong enough to resist the force of the screw or nut, during fixing.

Since we are talking about rubber power, the forces are not that high. The back plate was made of plywood, turned on a drill. The hole for the aluminium tubing was made a very tight fit. In addition, the tubing had its rear end slotted lengthwise with an X-Acto blade, to become serrated.
This had two effects. First it made the limited surface joint between back plate and tubing much stronger (the serrations (?) gripped well into the plywood), secondly the diameter of the tubing was slightly increased, adding a mechanical resistance against the force of the screw during assembly.

I chose the internal thread, mainly because I happened to have some extra 1,4mm screws from a Gasparin CO2 motor. The aluminium tubing was 2mm outer diameter, 1,1mm inner diameter. The hook wire was chosen 1mm as well, a little thick and heavy, but it is in front, so that helps with balance. Also, it matched with the small ball bearings I used, of 1mm inner diameter.  ;D

Of course, the same system can be used with a standard plastic nose bearing.

For the internal thread, at first I tried forming it with a screw, slowly working my way in and out, little by little. It took some time, but it worked.  Not a perfect thread, but it held. For the second attempt and with much better results, I used of a small tapping tool. After some search I found a not too expensive set of miniature sizes, useful for many similar modeling applications.

Only half the length of the tubing needs a thread, the rest is glued to the shaft axis.

I believe the sketch and pictures should explain the matter completely.

The assembly is as follows:

The tubing-backplate assembly has been pre-glued with CA, making sure the backplate is completely perpendicular to the revolution axis of the tubing.
Be careful not to let glue inside the tubing.

Prepare the main wire, forming the rubber hook.
Measure the needed length and cut the extra wire.
Insert the wire through the nose bearing (and nose block…)
Insert washers
Insert the tubing-backplate into the wire, about halfway (see sketch). Glue with CA from the rear side, not from the thread side. No matter how careful you are, there is great risk of glue flowing into the bearing and ruining everything. To prevent this I used masking liquid to seal off the wire-nose bearing area. White glue will do just as well. It is removed afterwards.

Only a little glue is necessary, too much can go and ruin the thread…

The props you intend to use need to be drilled to the same diameter (+ tolerance) as the aluminium tubing.

It goes without saying, that you cannot disassemble the system, once it is glued. The only way to remove is to cut the wire hook and throw everything away. Of course, there is no reason why one would want to do that…

The biggest obstacle is finding the necessary wire-tubing-screw sizes and, most importantly, the tapping tool… Also, to not lose the tiny screw… >:(

Last picture shows the dummy propeller with the front plate glued on it. It is just inserted to the tubing for judging and easily removed for the flying prop.

Of course, the same system is used for easily changing and trying different props. And if used as a standard in many models, it makes great sense…

Long post, sorry, but I hope it was interesting…


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on July 28, 2013, 01:36:21 PM
that last picture shows something interesting...

During judging, the judges noticed that my prop was carved backwards, compared to the photographs, and pointed this out to me...A moment of great embarassment, for such a basic error  :'(

So, here is the second one, carved and waiting for finial sanding and painting. Too hot for these tasks now...

The funny part is, I later checked again my documentation and there is 1-2 pictures which show the prop the way I did it initially. But these were taken during mock-ups, so the prop might have been inserted backwards and I happened to use these pictures  >:(... Anyway...



Another different approach was for the rear rubber peg.
For personal reasons of scale appearance, I wanted to avoid having a visible peg extending from the fuselage sides. So I hid it... I made it permantent in the fuselage. I did add a paper tube, through which I pass the retaining wire of the stooge, during winding. Some lucky coincidence and calculation had the position of the peg exactly at the lacing area, so even the holes for the wire could be avoided. They are somewher in the side lacing  ;D

Of course, one might ask: and how do you attach the rubber ?

For this I got the idea-hint from german F1B modeller in a german forum. He suggested the use of a removable hook, as is apparently standard practice in F1B. Then, fellow member there and here, hastf1b made a downsized sketch and a quick rough prototype to show the idea...

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php/235878-Scale-Modelle-F4D-F4E-F4F-Peanut?p=2109645&viewfull=1#post2109645

Some refining, and it worked. Still needs perfection to make it 100% dependable. And I do not know what happens if the rubber brakes during winding. On the other hand, this system was developed exactly so that the motor could be wound outside the model, then inserted at 45 degrees and rotated to 0 degrees clockwise, to lock the hook in the internal rear peg.

With practice and some fine tuning it should work very well. During the BMFA indoor scale nats it gave me some headaches, but not severe problems. If the model had already been trimmed, it would be nothing... And if I had prepared my equipment in advance... And if...

First picture shows the permanent motor peg made of basswood. The paper tube end is barely visible on the side.

Second shows the rear hook and an exact copy of the peg, used for testing and adjusting the hook. Some kind of special stooge is needed to put it in and out of the model. And that is all...
It could be a little better in focus, btw, sorry for that... Aluminium tubing, ply end plates, piano wire hooks. Weight ~0,3gr, not the best position for extra weight, but you can't have it all...


Anyway, enough with innovations...

George


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: Work In Progress on July 29, 2013, 05:06:09 AM
Even though my skills are minimal compared to yours I am finding this thread highly motivating and inspirational. The concealed rear motor anchor is a brilliant idea.


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: billdennis747 on July 29, 2013, 07:20:49 AM
Hi George
This is a masterclass, and I look forward to the DH9!
Bill


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: hastf1b on July 29, 2013, 08:38:31 AM
Hi George, I am glad that I could make a small contribution to your beautiful model. :) I wish you many pleasant flights with it.

Heinz


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on July 29, 2013, 01:59:39 PM
Thanks for the comments...Heinz, thank you for the help  :)

Masterclass ?   :o 

Back to the model, as time came close to my deadline (April), the building rate increased and the documenting rate droped... So, some of the later stages will have to be shown wih current photographs and descriptions.

I need to add here, that the model is not yet finished. I did enter it at the BMFA Nats, but at 95% state. Another funny question I head from the judges (Paul Briggs specifically):
George, where is the tail skid on your model as shown in the original?
What tailskid? I do not remember a tail skid. Was there supposed to be a tailskid? (Better to sound surprised as having forgotten it, than admitting time was not enough  ;D)

Anyway, here some pictures of the covered fuselage. Each side was done in two pieces, the tissue glued just before the lacing holes. After doping and painting, the tissie edge dissappears and leaves a continuous surface, whixh was the effect I wanted.

The other two pictures show an ad-hoc solution to a problem that appears too often: how to secure parts after painting, when you have only one free hand. Fix them on a pin and use magnets...


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on July 29, 2013, 02:41:43 PM
After everything was covered and doped it was painted with acrylic color, trying to simulate the off-white fabric of the original.

The black AVRO lettering was sprayed, using artool frisket film for masking (similar to badger but better, lower stick) to both sides of the fuselage and the underside of the wings.

Next, the front side panels where glued and trimmed to size.

Since it started to look the part, some pictures were taken at that time.

Top and bottom fuselage panels were next.





Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: hlsat on July 29, 2013, 02:58:42 PM
George you are the best Greek model manufacturer in this category.
Good luck in your work.

Elijah Greece Xanthi.


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: billdennis747 on July 29, 2013, 03:28:32 PM


Masterclass ?   

"A master class is a class given to students of a particular discipline by an expert of that discipline—usually music, but also painting, drama, any of the arts, or on any other occasion where skills are being developed." I think that fits!


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: Ex Member on July 29, 2013, 03:36:48 PM
Superb......


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on August 07, 2013, 05:35:21 PM
some more photos with details of the finished model.


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on August 07, 2013, 05:41:49 PM
and the last ones for now...

Given that the model is not yet 100% finished (tailskid and some small details missing), this is still a current build log.

And the model still has to be trimmed, but that will have to wait until the autumn.

George


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: Dave Andreski on August 07, 2013, 07:01:04 PM
STUNNING!
Dave


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: rgroener on August 08, 2013, 01:48:40 AM
george, my eyes are hurting.... Great as always!
Roman


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: RolandD6 on August 08, 2013, 05:23:03 AM
Truly amazing.
Some 1/4 scale builders would be jealous.

Paul


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: yagua on August 08, 2013, 10:45:52 AM
 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: Pat Daily on August 10, 2013, 09:42:20 PM
Outstanding, George!  You put us all to shame!


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: g_kandylakis on May 21, 2016, 06:23:44 PM
Long overdue and quite delayed, here is a video fo the only qualifying flight of the Avro during Interscale 2015 in Nijmegen...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtrMi6vD3Rg&feature=youtu.be

I had (and still have) plenty of problems with thrust and center of gravity settings, plus too short a rubber... Must seem funny for such a simple model, but there are some fundamental errors built into it.

At least I got a qualifying flight on video to remember it.

Model had some minor damage, has been repaired since, but not yet flown again, due to lack of a suitably sized hall. Next Interscale, hopefully...

George


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: USch on May 22, 2016, 03:13:38 AM
George, even your videos are flawless, the same as your models  :D

Thanks for a nice Sunday morning reading of your topic, not explored yet, but being studied carefully right now.

Urs


Title: Re: Avro F monoplane, 1/20 scale for F4D
Post by: DavidJP on May 22, 2016, 05:27:50 AM
Masterclass indeed.  And I think that looking at some of the detail pictures one could be forgiven for wondering if you are looking at shots of the real aeroplane.