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Indoor Free Flight Forum => Scale, Indoor => Topic started by: THB on August 14, 2013, 08:37:59 AM



Title: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on August 14, 2013, 08:37:59 AM
Hi Biplane Fans
It's about 4 weeks till the next Ingle Farm night here in Adelaide - plenty of time to build.
I was catching up on some reading recently that said:

'Biplane Racers Get the Official OK'

Just to get you in the mood I've attached the relevant documents
Tim


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Bredehoft on August 14, 2013, 08:53:49 AM
There are many great biplane racers, but I think if I were building one, I would have to tackle the Sorceress.  I've often thought about it anyway :)

(http://airpigz.com/storage/hi-res/2013/Sorceress-1970-Reno-Biplane-Racer-1.27.13-Udvar-Hazy-.jpg)

http://airpigz.com/blog/2013/1/28/coolpix-1970s-reno-biplane-racer-sorceress-at-the-udvar-hazy.html

--george



Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on August 14, 2013, 09:01:25 AM
Well - the Sorceress is a beautiful machine. But I've already picked the Biplane I wanted to build.

In fact I've had an article sitting near the building board for a year or so. And now I can't find it.

So Dave has sent a 3-view to help out - from one of Trev's books.

The aeroplane is the Sundancer - a Midget Mustang I think - but obviously modified to hold extra wings.
The thing that really appealed to me was the seventies orange and gold colour scheme with the big sun graphic. I can almost hear the strains of Seals & Crofts 'summer breeze' blaring out on the eight-track car stereo as they made their way through Nevada behind a big Oldsmobile.


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on August 14, 2013, 09:11:03 AM
Gee that Sorceress is amazing tho. George, I'd love to see you have a go at building one and post some pics!
I haven't seen any tissue paper that shiny...


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on August 14, 2013, 09:13:22 AM
A couple more Sundancers...


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: tross on August 14, 2013, 09:15:11 AM
Love the color Tim! ;D
The second set of pics really shows the actual plane size.

That is a wild looking plane George! :) :o
If you build it, what wingspan and what kind of power are you thinking? 8)

Tony


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Bredehoft on August 14, 2013, 10:09:28 AM
When I initially researched this, I was thinking Peanut scale, because I was hoping to fly in the FAC Goodyear/Formula event.  I have since been told that biplanes are not permitted in that class.

I would still consider Peanut Scale with rubber power (of course!)

Note:  this is only one of dozens of designs I ponder, so it is not high on my build-list, currently.

--george


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on August 16, 2013, 06:43:12 AM
So I dropped into the local Library late today to enlarge some 3-views of the Sundancer on their copier.
As I laid out the copies and measured the resulting span (about 16inches) a guy came up to me and said:

'So you're the guy who copies aeroplane plans? - I've seen these aeroplane photocopies in the recycle bin before and think someone must really like aeroplanes'.

We had a good chat, but at the end I said: 'It might not be me - there's another guy round here that likes aeroplanes too. Was he copying a biplane, did you notice?'
 :D
Tim


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: sparkle on August 16, 2013, 04:05:15 PM
 ;D Hi Tim, ambitous project, out of my leage! :( That other guy that copies aeroplane 3 views around your way, seems a bit quiet at the moment, what is he scheming?  ;)


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on August 17, 2013, 05:53:31 AM
Hi
Well, I had to have something to show before I could post and it wasn,t me at the libary photocopier though I have been guilty in the past  ;D
When we decided on Biplane racers I Googled them and looked at the Image results. I was imeadiately drawn to "Miss Gianna" owned and flown by Jeff Lo and described as a Super Pitts, that's where the problems started, I could not find a 3-view or even any dimentions anywhere. I did find a direct side view photo and that gave me a start. I printed the photo of the fuslage and cut it out, then I cut out several size wings from cardboard to make a mock up that resembled the proportions in the photos. I know this is not too accurate but it should be a reasonable representation, this will be a no doco event  :)  I knew that Racing biplanes were limited to a minimum wing area of 75 square feet and most of the specials were close to this so after finding a photo of the builder holding the bottom wing I worked out an approximate span of 17' using 6' as the apporoximate height of the fella in the photo and calculating back this gives an area of 80 sq. ft., close enough I think. If you are interested there is a great link on building "Miss Gianna" here http://aafo.com/racing/2005/lo_racer/
So using the side view photo I was able to draw a plan for the Fuslage, I,ve decided on 15" span for this model, so here we go!


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on August 17, 2013, 06:09:48 AM
The fuse sides are made from light 3/32 square, the rear lower longerons are 1/8th x 3/32nd this will allow me to radius the corner without loss of strength. After studying other Racing biplanes I could work out the width as they all use the same IO-360 Lycoming engine. The front of the fuse will be worked out as I go along. I have put in the motor peg position but that can be changed as it becomes more complete. Well, thats as far as I've got so far.
regards Dave


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: sparkle on August 17, 2013, 06:41:48 AM
 ;D Wow, sounds like you need to be sherloc Holmes to sort out a plan for this one. Still good detective work. I thought all this " quietness" meant you must be up to something!  ;)


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: tross on August 17, 2013, 08:14:50 AM
Pretty cool Dave,
Here is another side view and some pics of the frame.
http://aafo.com/racing/2005/lo_racer/

Tony


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on August 17, 2013, 08:35:14 AM
Hi Tony
Thanks for that, its the same link I posted, It was the info that decided me to go ahead with the model.
regards Dave


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: tross on August 17, 2013, 09:50:41 AM
My apologies.
I have a folder chalked full of Pitts stuff from a p-nut I drew last year but didn't build.
I saw your pics but didn't check the link.....thought I was sharing something...... :-\
Just sitting in the back quietly now...... :-[

Tony


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on August 17, 2013, 08:06:54 PM
Tony
No apology required, It was great you went to the trouble of posting, please come back to the front row  ;D
Dave


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on August 17, 2013, 09:59:35 PM
Good pictures on that link.
I spent the last 24 hours staring at the plans and trying to decide whether to go box-and-stringers or use the sections to make formers. Finally decided to dive into the latter. So haven't got far, but will make some more progress now I have a direction to go with.
Here's where I'm at this morning.
Used the Section drawings to cut formers - I'll work out the stringer spacing once I have the formers in place I think - and just make it up as I go along.


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Mark Braunlich on August 17, 2013, 10:44:21 PM
Hot Canary plan

http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=2827


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on August 18, 2013, 04:35:09 AM
Thanks Mark - that Hot Canary has a much simpler fuselage than Sundancer. Have you built one? Any pics? I'm sure that boxy fuselage will start to look more appealing the further I get into this Sundancer. Meanwhile, I'm playing catch-up now that Dave has got much of his fuselage built...  I've gone ahead with some formers and will set them up on a frame. Some notches are already cut, and some I'll see how they fit once I get started.
The former in the last pic is just a test fit - I'll cut holes for the rubber before I glue it in.


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on August 18, 2013, 09:49:14 AM
Hi
I built that Hot Canary but never got it to fly properly, most likely no fault of the design. Nice to see your start Tim, is it really 16" or did it suddenly become Peanut?
I got a bit done today, built in the pylon and sheeted the cockpit combing. I though about stringers for the compound curves in the nose and eventually decided to sheet it in soft 1/16th. Need to do a bit of sanding and a coat of filler but it dosen't seem too far off. Need a few stringers on the  under surface to basically finish the fuse.
Regards Dave


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on August 18, 2013, 09:51:21 AM
More photos


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on August 18, 2013, 10:01:12 AM
Nice work on the sheeting - a good way to go. My fuselage will be stringers for the most part and then  engine cowl and extras carved from block. Not much progress tonight because the section shapes were not quite right and so had to re-do some of them. Size I'm pretty sure was about 15-16inch span. I don't think it shrunk - but I was distracted in conversation so it may have come out a few different sizes...  Maybe that was what was wrong with the former sections...
cheers
Tim


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on August 18, 2013, 10:07:38 AM
You sure those distraction have nothing to do with the FLY being built in the background Tim.
I love making fuselages like that, but you seem to do lots of work before there is any thing to show.


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: sparkle on August 18, 2013, 03:05:52 PM
 ;D You boys are certainly Racing along!  ;D


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on August 19, 2013, 09:18:21 AM
 - I think if I keep sticking bits on it might start looking like an aeroplane at some point...


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on August 19, 2013, 09:30:56 AM
Well Ive stuck on a few more bits, Miss Gianna uses a Cessna type spring undercart so I formed the U/C from wire and then covered it with sheet balsa and sanded it to shape, with the grain cross wise the wire is still able to flex.  Finished off the stringers on the underside. Thats it for now, I'm quite pleased with the shape  ;D


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: sparkle on August 19, 2013, 03:24:50 PM
 ;D Interesting looking plane. Neat undercarrige.  8)


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on August 20, 2013, 09:17:33 AM
Fiddely bits tonight, wheels and spats. The wheels seem too small and the spats seem too big but it agrees with the photos  ;D 


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: rgroener on August 21, 2013, 01:41:24 AM
Very nice bones. Looks really sharp!


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: RolandD6 on August 21, 2013, 03:25:54 AM
I like the way you have done the UC Dave.

Do you simply dope and paint the wood or do you use some other way of finishing it that is flexible and crack resistant?

Paul


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on August 21, 2013, 09:17:23 AM
A million stringers on this little fuselage. Would have been lighter if I carved it out of block! Anyway - I thought I'd have a go at cutting most of the stringer slots 'in situ'. Starting them off at one end and marking up the positions downwind. Tried a Dremel. Potential disaster. So I went back to cutting with a blade.

I'm looking forward to making some wings - but note that Dave is already putting wheels on. Mine doesn't even have u/c legs yet...


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on August 21, 2013, 09:28:56 AM
Hi
Thanks Roman for your kind comments, Paul, the balsa flexes over the whole length of the leg so there is not much movement in one place, it will be doped and painted with enamel so the finish should be flexible enough.
I've built the tail unit tonight, I always struggle with wether to make it with adjustable control surfaces or not so this time I've struck a compromise.
The rudder will be adjustable and the tailplane will be adjusted with a shim.
Dave


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: sparkle on August 21, 2013, 04:22:45 PM
 ;D It's always interesting to watch you boys "battle" it out!  ;D


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: OZPAF on August 21, 2013, 06:27:29 PM
Nice work fellows. Those stringers look like an entertaining exercise Tim and even your building frame looks neat.
Interesting UC Dave - is it laminated?
John


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on August 22, 2013, 09:24:51 PM
Only small progress. Added the nose block former and hollowed out. fitted a noseblock set up for about 1-2 degrees left and 3-4 down thrust. Used Dremel to spin up a spinner. Haven't decided on prop yet - I think I'll see how the weight distribution turns out and see if it need a heavier prop or not.

I think I put the lower stringers on before I cemented the u/c legs in place...  Hmmmm


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: hoogie007 on August 23, 2013, 03:12:55 PM
parchment paper works best-


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on August 23, 2013, 10:55:56 PM
Hi
Looking good Tim, don't you just love these "design as you go" models, there is always a surprise  :o
I've built some wings, not sure now this was the right choice of model  ;D it certainly won't be a soarer but it will be FAST It looks like the wings are for a different scale, Oh well. nothing special here, can't belive I only used a single spar and so few ribs, must be getting lazy.
Dave


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: sparkle on August 23, 2013, 11:09:57 PM
 ;D You gotta love the design as you go models :D Is there another type?  ;) What do you call those!  ::)
   A racer that's fast... sounds like a good plan!!  ;D


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on August 24, 2013, 12:34:53 AM
John I wonder if we drew plans after we worked out the details and built the model whether any one would build them. I would just as soon build another model than go to all that work, though I do admire those that do
I've got enough built now for a mock up, will have to start covering soon so I can mount the flying surfaces and work out the interplane struts.


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: sparkle on August 24, 2013, 03:21:07 AM
 ;D Wow! Speedy progress. I'm glad you are the one that is trimming this one!  ;) I really want to build from someone else's plans, but somehow it always gets mucked up!
     You are getting to the exciting part- finishing and making it fly!


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Marco on August 25, 2013, 06:36:14 AM
I am depressed : I am struggling to finish my G55, building it as per the plan, and in few days you are putting together some wonderful models starting from three-views and a couple of pictures ! My most sincere congratulations !


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: OZPAF on August 25, 2013, 09:13:15 PM
That looks very impressive Dave. I don't think the original 3 views did it justice - it looks better all framed up.
How are you going Tim on yours?
John


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: orbiteer127 on August 26, 2013, 12:07:10 AM
Hey Marco,
Don't worry, It has taken me all most of full year to build my DeHaviland Dash 8 and I followed a couple of guys that put theirs together in less then two months. Just keep moving forward. I have found that if I can do a tiny, and I mean tiny bit of work on my plane in my spare time I'm good with that. When I say tiny, I mean tiny, things like setting out the laser cut sheet of wood and replace the blade on my e-xacto blade, so the next day I'll can spend another tiny bit of time cutting out some parts. Then the next day sanding those parts etc.


William


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on August 27, 2013, 07:26:59 AM
Welcome Marco, William - if you enjoy building, then this is a very satisfying hobby. It doesn't matter how quick. I have many airframes that will take a long time to finish - and it is good to find the time to enjoy the progress.

Making a deadline is just a trick to get you building quicker - and it gives you something new to fly at the next meeting. Our group used to have a new theme every month - and it was often hard to get a model finished. But then I had 12 new models every year!  ;D ;D

It doesn't matter how long you spend building them - some of them won't fly anyway...

A busy few days so not much building, but I hope to do much more tonight...  here is some progress.

Dave will have to start another project while I catch up...


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on August 27, 2013, 07:29:51 AM
Hi John (OZPAF) - Hope you liked the pic of the quarter grain in the last post. I've been saving it for a project like this!
Tim


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: sparkle on August 27, 2013, 08:04:27 AM
 ;D Nice 1/4 grain! ;D


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on August 27, 2013, 09:35:54 AM
Hi
I have to agree with Tim, the main object is to enjoy what you are doing, it dosent matter how long it takes. My problem is if I take too long on a build I am often distracted by another project. I once built a JU88 for elect. that had a 2 year gap in the building time but I did eventually finish it.
    Good progress Tim, see you finally got to build some wings, and yes John, the balsa u/c fairings are laminated.
Well I've got around to covering so I can do some alignment checks before assembly, just covered with Modelspan and 2 coats of 50/50 dope and thinners on the flying surfaces and a bit more on the tissue covered sheeted nose. Made up a male and female mould for the canopy. I did a rough CofG check and put in a more rearward peg position, I nearly cut out the front one but decided it wont hurt just incase its does turn out a bit tail heavy. Still would have liked to see abit more wing area though  ::)
regards Dave


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: sparkle on August 27, 2013, 03:22:14 PM
 ;D Wow nearly done!  8) Racers equal small wings I guess!


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: OZPAF on August 27, 2013, 07:46:08 PM
Hi John (OZPAF) - Hope you liked the pic of the quarter grain in the last post. I've been saving it for a project like this!
Tim

Its obviously a well matured piece of quarter grain Tim ;D Just the stuff for ribs.
John


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: OZPAF on August 27, 2013, 07:54:19 PM
It looks really clean for a small biplane Dave - it should be fun to fly and quite fast. Perhaps you nad Tim could set up a straight  line speed trap over a short distance with cushions or similar at the far end to catch them.
anyway have fun.
John


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on August 27, 2013, 10:39:28 PM
The Sundancer has a long nose with heavy bits around it (cowl cheeks, spinner etc) so I've guessed I can make the tail feathers a bit more substantial than usual 1/16 square. I mean they won't have to be as light as on many rubber scale models due to managing the cg. I also enlarged them a little. They are not a bad size on the prototype - but its short-coupled and I think will need a little extra tail end guidance.

The wings have a cranked sort of dihedral - that makes the low wing in particular, need to be built longer so that it matches the front view and will have the struts at the right angle once it's assembled.

The Wings have been rough sanded and I'm just leaving stub spars so I can test fit them to the fuselage next. The spars can't go through the fuselage due to the HUGE snake of Super Sport that will be thrashing round in there once the race begins...

Nice work on the covering Dave - you can guess I'll prob use orange esaki  :D

cheers
Tim


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Bingo Fuel on August 28, 2013, 10:17:31 PM
THB   It sure is looking good.  I've been following this thread with much interest.  I got to see the real Sundancer race in Cleveland,Ohio back in the 1980's  There was another racer of the same design that raced with it that was all white with 2-tone green trim.  I have photos of both so I will have to try and dig them up and get posted here.  They sure were beautiful racers.  I saw Sorceress race also. That airplane is now in the Museum in Washington at Dulles airport.  Keep up thee good work.  Bingo


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on August 29, 2013, 09:51:44 PM
Hi Bingo - thanks for chiming in with such an interesting post. I you can find the pics, please post them here as you suggest. Must have been great to see these planes in the air. I have never seen a race or been to Reno - it would certainly be an experience. I'll get back to the build soon - it's been a busy week (which is good) but I'm looking forward to returning to the workshop also!


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on August 30, 2013, 07:36:12 AM
Hi
Bingo those photos would be good to see, are you a regular to Reno, it must be something to experiance.
Well I've been a bit slow this week but its taking shape now. Got it all stuck together and aligned. After I mounted the top wing I gave it a bit of a glide as a monoplane, fast and straight so when I mounted the lower wings I gave it another toss after adding a bit of nose weight( no prop) totally differant almost a bit of a float to the glide, I know it dosent proove anything but it was an interesting comparison. Next up I tackled the wing fillets, just a lot of cut paper and try, put on a Gordon Lightfoot album and got stuck in, just as well it was a double album  :o it took a while! 


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on August 30, 2013, 07:50:11 AM
The struts are faired into the wing with a cuff that slides down over the fixing, so the easiest way to represent this was to mould them from .005" plastic after carving a simple plug. This way I could get them all looking the same. I wont fit the struts until after I paint it, that will save a bit of masking.
There are lots of photos of this aircraft in many stages of its life, from a simple 2 tone paint with no markings and no fillets or even spats to the full on paint job and streamlining so I'm pleased I didn't take any shortcuts though some of the signwriting will be a challenge. I hope to get some color on it in the next few days  ;D
regards Dave


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: tross on August 30, 2013, 07:58:25 AM
Dave,
It's really looking good now. :)
The next bit, where you put the color on is my favorite to watch you do!
Quote
John I wonder if we drew plans after we worked out the details and built the model whether any one would build them.

I would, if you do it. Or just save your notes and sketches and send them over.
You don't need anything fancy, scribbles on napkins works. ;D :D :)
I'll document it for you. :D

Tony



Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on August 30, 2013, 08:10:31 AM
Hi Tony
That sounds like a great idea, it would be good to see you take my rough design and develop it. What say we just wait and see if it flys first  ;D
regards Dave


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: sparkle on August 30, 2013, 04:47:59 PM
 :D Looking very cute! ;) I too find that good music helps the construction process! I always interested in how the paint goes on. No good at myself!


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on August 31, 2013, 12:53:22 AM
It was time to have a go at all the big wooden bits on this aeroplane (Sundancer). I'm not accustomed to working in wood sizes like this. So it has taken me much longer and delayed things a bit...

Having reached Ecuador and selected some timber of suitable size, grain and density, I then lashed the logs together KonTiki-style and made my way across the Pacific to Australia - proving by the way that it was possible for early aeromodellers here to have made model planes from balsa if they really wanted to.

Having blocked out the rough shapes of the cowl cheeks I began hollowing out the hulks with a stone axe as canoes have always been created in time of yore. Until Carla came out to the hobby room and said 'Why don't you use that Dremel tool'.
And there might have been a comma after Dremel.   :D  
'The one you said you had to have for Christmas.'

So I did - and got the walls of the cheeks down to about 1mm thick - so that each cowl cheek now weighs about 0.5gram.

Anyway - that's why it's taken me so long... and why Dave is getting so far in front.

Tim Heyerdahl


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: sparkle on August 31, 2013, 03:03:10 AM
 ;D nice work Tim. Shame yo  :)u had to go all the way to Equador. :(  My sister lives there. She could have put a postage stamp on a couple of logs and sent them to you saving you a lot of trouble and time!,  ;D  Now you know for next time!


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Bingo Fuel on August 31, 2013, 12:10:17 PM
Hi All,
  I found my pictures of Sundancer and it's twin which was called Cobra.  The problem is they are all on slides.  They were all taken in 1979,80 at Cleveland's Burke Lakefront airport which was the site of the races back then.  Sundancer is not orange in these years but white with red and orange trim.  I have very good pictures of these racers and a number of other Sport Biplane racers  but will have to work out how to scan the slides. I'll see what I can do.  I have only been to the Reno races once which was 1994 and there was a beautiful biplane racer that year that was painted like the black and yellow GeeBee Z flown by a woman.  I'll have to dig that up too.  Bingo


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Bingo Fuel on August 31, 2013, 05:20:24 PM
THB,
   There was a good set of three views of Sundancer in Reed Kinert's 1974 air race annual by Dustin Carter drawn 3-74 but without cross sections.  You are doing pretty fantastic with the drawing you have. In 1975 the wheels were moved back a bit still using the same landing gear leg in the same position to improve ground handling.  Looks a bit different with the legs coming in to the forward part of the wheel pants but this could also get a tick of weight out of the nose. Bingo
  (oh I once made a raft of Pop-cicle sticks  and sailed the high seas using an electric fan and lots of extension cords for propulsion and just got a bad hair day)


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on September 01, 2013, 09:02:45 AM
Hi
Tim, us mere mortals buy our balsa from the LHS just down the road, maybe thats what I'm doing wrong.
Got some paint on over the weekend.  My usual, Humbrol enamel thinned with Acrylic thinners. When I bought the yellow from the LHS they had a full range of Humbrol Acrylic, I was tempted to try it but every time I try something differant it dosen't work out, so its safer to stick with what you know.
The Yellow went on fine but it took forever to dry so to be sure I left it for about 30 hrs before I masked it up for the Red and as soon as that started to dry I carefully pulled off the masks and I was pleased not to lift off any of the Yellow with the tape. I know that gloss paint is heavier than matt but its only added 2grms and I can live with that. Now I just need to let it harden up before I add the markings.
Dave


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: sparkle on September 01, 2013, 04:29:13 PM
 ;D It's a very bright little plane!   :D


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Bell Models on September 01, 2013, 07:19:44 PM
Here's an Imperial Knight Twister I built. I kitted the airplane, but never flew it. No place to fly in Largo Florida. 15 1/2 in. span, weighs 26 grams.

John Bell


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Sky9pilot on September 01, 2013, 11:33:21 PM
dputt7,
What a knock out!!!! Zeowee!!! 8) :o

Tom


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on September 02, 2013, 09:27:07 AM
No place to fly in Largo Florida. 15 1/2 in. span, weighs 26 grams.
John Bell
Hi John, We'll make room for you on the start line if you want to bring that Twister down to South Australia.  :)
At least you have a model built.
I was thinking back about the comments of William (orbiteer127) and how as long as you keep moving forward... do a bit at a time...
It's time to work out how to fit the wheels on. And I hope you work out how to scan those slides Bingo - I didn't know Sundancer had a twin.
I remember also that big spats can also sometimes work like rudders on a model, if they get knocked out of line in a landing it changes the trim.


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Bingo Fuel on September 02, 2013, 03:27:38 PM
THB and all,
   I will have to send off my slides to get them copied to a DVD.  I will copy most of my biplane racers slides.  I saw the BeLL Model subject race too which was flown by Don Fairbanks of Cincinnati, Ohio the Knight Twister.  Beautiful model Bell.  There was another beautuful Knight Twister that raced also.  Fantastic job on the two racers as far as I am concerned.  Keep going.  Jeeze I wish I could build and fly in this but Australia is a bit of a drive from the USA.. Bingo


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on September 03, 2013, 04:28:38 AM
Hi Bingo
I was speaking to someone the other day that projected his slides onto the screen then photographed them with his digital camera, could be an easy option, Thanks for your support and interest.
Dave


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on September 03, 2013, 09:33:56 AM
A little more progress. having forgotten about the U/C - I managed to do a work-around and fit a wire in horizontally. Then bend it to the right angles. I won't do that again. but it worked out ok.


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on September 03, 2013, 09:52:05 AM
Mainly I wanted to be sure everything was going to be 'square'. And there was a bit of twisting and dodgy carpentry (not shown) but hopefully when I put the fin on it will be pointing upwards at 90ish degrees and look ok. Now just some carving around the legs and spats before I work out how to put the wings on. In the old Comet days I think you just glued the root rib straight onto the tissue...  this is fun...

That Knight Twister looks great. cheers for now. Tim


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: sparkle on September 03, 2013, 03:22:37 PM
 ;D Looks straightish to me!  :)


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: tross on September 03, 2013, 08:09:39 PM
And that's one of my favorite parts of what you do Dave.
Looks great! ;D
I had to get the SkyQuest out Tim, but I think I see it.  :o
(see pic of Sky Quest)
 ;D :D :) :D ;D 8) :D ;D :o ::) ;D

Tony

PS. It's gonna fly Dave.


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Bingo Fuel on September 03, 2013, 08:56:07 PM
Hi all,
  I get the CD with my slides on it back on Friday so hang in there.  There are 27 pictures.   Bingo


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on September 04, 2013, 09:40:57 AM
Hi
Tony I enjoy this part as well, but it can turnout badly very quick, trying to workout the best way to apply the white lettering.
     Bingo looking forward to your photos.
I couldn't find a suitable pilot in my supplies so I carved a foam one, not done to any high standard but just a representaion to fill the cockpit. A tinted face mask took care of any facial details and a good photo of the instrument panel finished off the interior. Tim you must be getting ready to cover, the weather is turning sour  ::)
regards Dave


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on September 04, 2013, 09:48:39 AM
Looking forward to those pics - what a bonus! Thanks for doing this Bingo.
Hmmm - I don't need a Skyquest to see the carpentry errors here - but thanks anyway  :D

When I put the wheels in I thought it might need some little washers/spacers so the wheels didn't bind against the wheelpant walls. I tried to cut some slivers off the back of a PP nose bearing and failed. Then I remembered seeing Marco using beercan stock for some cockpit detail - and so I cut out some little washers from a Guinness can.
The rest was all sanding...  

There's a lot of wood in those wheelpant blanks - they were looking like floats for a seaplane for a while Sparkle...  any news on yours?


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on September 04, 2013, 09:51:25 AM
A week and a half to go - and it seems like a long time before I'm ready to cover. I'll get there...
Sounds like you'll be doing some test flights down at the oval this weekend Dave?


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on September 04, 2013, 10:12:28 AM
A week and a half to go - and it seems like a long time before I'm ready to cover. I'll get there...
Sounds like you'll be doing some test flights down at the oval this weekend Dave?
I expect you to turn up with the glue still wet on the windscreen  ;D
Test flights, that would be cheating  ;D


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: OZPAF on September 04, 2013, 06:55:30 PM
Dave your model is looking impressive in its bright clothes. What no cheating ;D Where is is the :D fun
Come on Tim finish the night before and then a test flight.
That knight Twister is beautiful JB.
John


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on September 06, 2013, 09:57:42 AM
Finally ready to start covering I think...  Dihedral and anhedral added to wings...  and the holes plugged with sticks.
The assembly took a bit of shaping-up - and still some work to do on the wing struts - but otherwise it's starting to look like an aeroplane - thought a slightly eccentric one....


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Bingo Fuel on September 06, 2013, 05:01:37 PM
Hey THB,
    What super cool book is that?   Bingo


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: sparkle on September 06, 2013, 05:10:31 PM
 ;D Very nice work Tim!  8)


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: OZPAF on September 07, 2013, 09:45:00 AM
All that hassle with the fus and stringers has paid off Tim - it looks the part. great spinner and cowl cheeks as well.
John


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on September 07, 2013, 11:48:56 AM
Hi
You've captured the great lines of Sundancer well Tim, looks really great.
    I spent some time trying to work out how to come up with a satisfactory way of applying the white lettering, I ordered some decals all the way from sunny Queensland but they turned out to be all capitals so I was stuck with either painting them on, not an option that appealed, or to print them onto decal paper. As there is no such thing as white ink I had to use white decal paper and useing a red background print them with the computer set to white. I experimented with printing on paper but could not come close to matching the color until my daughter came around and modified the R.G.B. setting on my computer and got a resonable match. When we printed it onto the gloss white decal paper the match was very close. After cutting out and applying the decals it left a white edge so a careful touchup with some paint eliminated that. I chose to use an early photo of Miss Gianna before all of the sponsors decals had been applied to simplify things, I still have a few more to apply but as some of the decals are hard to read I'll have to wait until I find some clearer photos. Nearly there!
regards Dave


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: sparkle on September 07, 2013, 06:00:57 PM
 ;D Really looks the part!  8)


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: OZPAF on September 07, 2013, 07:26:54 PM
Its really coming to life Dave - the 3 views didn't do it justice.
Too pretty to race ;D
Will you fellows have a straight line speed challenge?

John


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Bingo Fuel on September 07, 2013, 10:03:41 PM
Hi all,  Having trouble with the slides.  Should get it figured out.,  Bingo


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on September 08, 2013, 12:19:53 AM
Thanks Fellas
John I didn't have any 3-views I drew my own plan (HA!) from photos on the net but it dosen't look that far out, I would make a few changes if I was to build another but they would be minor. Bingo, take your time we will be patient.
Dave


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Marco on September 08, 2013, 06:07:22 AM
these planes are great !


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Bingo Fuel on September 08, 2013, 11:26:17 AM
Hi all,

 Finally some of my pics from slides. All taken Sept. 1980 at Cleveland,Ohio USA Burke Airport on Lake Erie. Note many differences between the two. Sundancer has wheels moved back from Orange version. Cowl changed too as it is now very smoothly faired in to fuselage.  Landing gear from Cobra #22 came out of lower wing kink.  Canopy longer On Cobra than Sundancer.  Sundancer has curved wing gulls and Cobra has kinks. Wing fillets different. Lower cowls different. This was not the last color version of Sundancer as it kept evolving.  More pics later.  Bingo    (Oh yeah Pilot was Pat Hines on Sundancer and Al Kramer on Cobra #22)


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Bingo Fuel on September 08, 2013, 11:45:32 AM
Hi,
  Here are a few more, Sorceress #89 Don Beck pilot, White Knight #5 Flown by Don Fairbanks, Amsoil Special #3 Flown by Dan Mortesen and Mongoose #91 flown by Bill Nagle. all 1979  Cleveland..  Bingo  (more of Sundancer to follow)


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Bingo Fuel on September 08, 2013, 01:56:20 PM
One more of Cobra 1979.  Note differences from 1980.  Green spinner and top of cowl.  Color stripes on fuselage do NOT extend down on to lower wing  Short canopy.  Taken on runway facing west for start of race.  Bingo


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: sparkle on September 08, 2013, 03:15:27 PM
 ;D Great photos, thanks for sharing them!


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Bingo Fuel on September 08, 2013, 07:16:12 PM
Hi again,
   Here is more of Sundancer all 1980.


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Bingo Fuel on September 08, 2013, 07:19:33 PM
And the last one.  Note difference in canopies.


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: OZPAF on September 08, 2013, 07:57:39 PM
Thanks for those photos Bingo. You don't apprecoate how small they are until you see the oversized ;D head in the cockpit.
John


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on September 09, 2013, 03:50:27 AM
Wow Bingo, great set of photos, really captures the atmosphere of the racers. In the early '70's I was mixed up with racing Speedway Super Modifieds and took a lot of photos, then 20-30 years later there was an interest in restoring those old racers and all the photos came out. It was a similar thing where you could see the slight modifications to the cars as they were improved over several years. Thanks for sharing those great memories, Kudos
Dave


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Marco on September 09, 2013, 06:49:49 AM
Just for me, to put things in the context : what are the performances of these planes ? speed, powerplant ....?


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on September 09, 2013, 07:36:39 AM
Hi Marco
I'm no expert but from what I have read these racers all use the the same 290 cu.in. Lycoming flat 4 engine and must have a minimum wing area of 75 sq.ft. Sorceress in 1975 won at a speed of 198.99mph  Sundancer  won in 1973 and 1974 at 198.1 mph. Miss Gianna qualified in 2006 at 241 mph and came second in the race at 231 mph.
They must be very impressive to watch let alone fly them in racing conditions.
Dave


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Bingo Fuel on September 09, 2013, 07:07:36 PM

Hi all,
  As to speeds. In 1983 at Reno, Nevada,  Sundancer qualified at 220.92 mph and Sorceress at 217.19. These were in Racing Biplane Division.  Cobra was never as fast as Sundancer. White Knight of Don Fairbanks was in the Sport Biplane class and was much slower with speeds in the 170 range.  Sorceress as cool as it looked was usually around 198 to low 200s. The Amsoil Special #3 was down around 160.  1980 has Sorceress lapping everyone but Sundancer crossing the finish at 210.73 but dropped to last place, penalized for an illegal pass.  Sundancer moved to the first place slot at 206.62.  I'm not real familiar at what speeds are these days. Probably getting up much higher.  Bingo


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on September 10, 2013, 04:10:00 AM
THANKS  SO  MUCH for these photos Bingo. Sensational work. I've been flicking forward and back through each one. Wishing maybe I'd made two Sundancers. Or three...
I thought about making mine into a white one with red/orange/yellow stripes instead of the original all orange colour. I could make the structure variations maybe...
In the end I think I'll stick to the original orange. It's so great to see the detail - cockpit style / instruments and variations. Really appreciate your effort to get these pics up here and was worth doing the build just to attract your attention! Kudos
cheers
Tim


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Marco on September 10, 2013, 06:56:58 AM
Any idea about the take off weight ?


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on September 10, 2013, 07:06:18 AM
Hi Marco - take off weight? - you mean of my model or the original Sundancer?
Probably about the same  ;D ;D
I'll make some weight measurements tonight.
Dave's bipe looks great. I'm really worried. I will Defiinitely do a test glide from hallway to the sofa. Once it's covered. But outdoors is all wind and rain here anyway. The tradition is to turn up with the model completely untested...  not a 'rule'... just a way of life
good to hear from you Marco - enjoying your build also
cheers
Tim


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on September 10, 2013, 08:08:27 AM
Hi
All Done  ;D
       Marco, my book says Sundancer 850lbs empty   Sorceress   empty 800lbs  gross 1100 lbs and some of the Pitts and Mong Sports as low as 620lbs empty. I have no info on Miss Gianna and notice that she is not entered in this years Reno which starts in 9 days time.
Dave


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on September 10, 2013, 08:59:57 AM
Nice work Dave. Carla loves the Miss Gianna. Supposed to be on my side... wait till she sees mine in colour!.
I'm cutting tissue...


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: OZPAF on September 10, 2013, 09:28:23 AM
On the home stetch Tim. It will be fun covering that tiny oval section fus.
Have you cut down a peck prop for  Miss Gianna Dave?
John


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Pit on September 10, 2013, 09:47:18 AM
I have a BIG soft spot for biplanes - especially aerobats and racers - and the Sorceress has been a secret WANT ever since I first saw it on the register in the 70's.  I think there were even a few rc models (no kits) made.  I can hardly wait to see/read about the flight reports of these models!

Might be a Sorceress in the cards - but don't hold your breath...


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Marco on September 10, 2013, 04:18:09 PM
well, Tim, the true planes are so small that the weight difference between the real  plane and your models should be just about the weight of the pilot..... ;) really, I did not know these racers and I am amazed by their size : they are the minimum plane that can be put around a pilot ! I agree with Dave, it must be impressing to see them flying ! And I have great expectations from the models built under this thread .... videos of their flights will be mandatory, please !!!!


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on September 11, 2013, 09:59:00 AM
Quick update - a few tries at the windscreen moulding - a few broke, but a couple are good and I can fit one to the finished fuzz.
Bingo, the books I have were purchased in a newsagent sale - I have the Racing Planes and Unusual Planes titles. I'm a sad victim for any bookseller that has an aero title going cheap!


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on September 11, 2013, 10:02:10 AM
As promised, the covering is underway...  I use the thinned PVA method. I've done the easy 'flat' bits first and will tackle the fuselage etc tomorrow.


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on September 11, 2013, 10:06:34 AM
And looking at the pics - the tissue is the same orange on all panels - it looks like different colours due to a flouro lamp on one side and a regular light on the other side. Looks dodgy in the pics...    :P


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: tross on September 11, 2013, 11:11:03 AM
Not really.
I'm digging it,...... a lot! ;D

tross


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Marco on September 11, 2013, 02:27:26 PM
Tim, how are you planning to assemble the wings keeping everything aligned?  Are you going to build a jig or something similar?


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: OZPAF on September 11, 2013, 07:38:24 PM
Very neat work Tim - the canopy looks great.
I can't wait to see this little beast finished.
John


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Bingo Fuel on September 11, 2013, 10:40:30 PM
THB and all,
   I was glad to put my photos on here.  I have not looked at those in about 15 years.  I have bunches of Formula 1 and Formula V from Cleveland also.  I am in the process of building a 13" w/s Formula 1 Idget's Midget which I designed many moons ago and I see someone put it on the plans page.  I am doing a few modifications on it since the original design so it should come out lighter.  The originals were all nose heavy.  I will start a thread with its construction.  Keep up the good work guys.  I have a Starduster biplane  racer going around in my head so I will have to get to making the plan.  Regards,  Bingo
  


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on September 12, 2013, 10:34:38 AM
Thursday night and I have components covered - that's good for me - details, markings and assembly over the next couple of days...   :o
This has been heaps of fun. Can't wait to wind the rubber band. Thanks for the encouragement.


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: OZPAF on September 12, 2013, 07:24:13 PM
Orange pilot as well Tim? ;D
The spats look nice - nice covering work.
John


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on September 13, 2013, 09:31:33 PM
Well - just 8 hours to go - and I think I'll make it  :D
Importantly - I've selected an appropriate T-shirt to wear
Finished all the covering doping shrinking - testing the pen I'm going to use for the lettering on some scrap...
Just some assembly and detailing to go...   find a rubber band....   remember to bring a winder and a camera....


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Bingo Fuel on September 13, 2013, 09:47:56 PM
THB,
  Keep going, I'm rooting for ya..... Bingo (don't forget the glue)


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: sparkle on September 14, 2013, 03:21:31 AM
 ;D Love the all important Tshirt. Hope you have a smashing time! Sorry best put that another way!  ;D  ::)


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: sparkle on September 15, 2013, 04:27:06 AM
 ;D So how did the flying go?


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on September 15, 2013, 06:19:55 AM
Hi all and thanks for your patience - had a GREAT night last night and - yes - managed to finish Sundancer in time. Just.
So, a bit of catch-up - I cut the markings out from some gold tissue and white photocopy paper.
Marco - I didn't really use a 'jig' for setting up the wings. I had things aligned as best I could before covering. Then I elastic band some 3/32 square sticks to use to help out with lining up the wing angles by sight - and by measuring.
I made a Roland D.VI ages ago and put a lot of effort into the aeroplane - and then stuck all the wings on a bit quick - and it never had a hope of flying. So making sure the wings lined up was important. The top and bottom wings were the same angle and there was no wash-out in any of the wings - and that was just to make it easier to get everything square. There are other ways - but this seemed to be the quickest way to get an accurate line-up.


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on September 15, 2013, 06:30:20 AM
In terms of lessons learnt - I think I should have glued the cowl cheeks in place before water-shrinking and doping.
I'd matched the fit of the cowls pretty well - but once I'd water shrunk etc - the stringers had pulled in and the fit was no longer as good.
The 'Sundancer' text was a bit stressful - I had tested a white ink pen which seemed to work well - but then you just have to start writing and make sure you get the spelling right  :P
Altogether though I think it fit together ok and was going to have a good chance to fly. The prop is a cut-down Peck.
It was never going to be as slick a finish as Dave gets - and one day I will get a good airbrush and have a go. But I'll be way behind the curve on that.
Anyway, it was finished!


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: THB on September 15, 2013, 06:42:55 AM
Theme song? Well as I leave I've got some Springsteen on the CD player 'Summer's here and the time is right for racing in the street'    :D

I'm late to arrive as usual - Dave is there with a Precious Metal T-shirt.
It was a fun night. Maris brought along a restored model of a Bleriot - built originally by Max Starick who was the originator of the indoor nights at the Ingle Farm site. It was really nice to watch this float around again with a new motor installed (Gasparin).

Dave and I worked hard over the night to get our bipes going. Initially we both had too much left turn and left spiral.
It's hard to get film and pics as well as fly - but here's a quick video of Dave's: http://youtu.be/faA1OHso_a4
In the end we both were getting some good flights - not what you'd call a 'race' maybe - but it was good fun seeing a couple of unusual racers taking to the air.
Thanks for your interest. I'm hoping Dave will chime in with some comments/photos

Enjoyed the build as always
Tim


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on September 15, 2013, 08:18:33 AM
Well it was certainly a great night but not enough time to get both models trimmed properly. Tims Sundancer is gorgeous, apart from the superb workmanship the overall effect is stick and tissue at its best. My daughter managed some video of the "trimming" period so I can share that with you, I think my brother summed up Miss Gianna as a model subject " not quite the ideal choice". With its pointy wings and minimal dihedral it proved very twitchy, I'll have a look and try to work out where the CofG ended up and if I can work something out from that. It was still enjoyable, but Tims got some serious duration models to build for an upcoming event so that will give me a chance to build something different with no fixed deadline.
Diannes videos are http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa9odtViGks&feature=share&list=UUGnbDn4ftkXW2v5C3_wvXrQ                 and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-NaMxW0PJk&feature=share&list=UUGnbDn4ftkXW2v5C3_wvXrQ My steam powered computer wouldn't let me put it all on in one go so if your bored you don't have to watch the second part. Last part of the vid is the Unlimited part of the night  ;D and shows my old Sea Fury "Furias" with not enough winds on too long a motor but you get the idea. Thanks for all your interest.
regards Dave


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Bingo Fuel on September 15, 2013, 04:09:59 PM
Tim and Dave,
   Both models look fantastic and I loved the videos.  Sundancer really flies nice for a short coupled aircraft.  I may have to build one myself.  It looks good in all orange.  Can't wait to see you two battle it out with another subject.  Fantastic again.. Regards,   Bingo


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: OZPAF on September 15, 2013, 07:07:50 PM
The models look great and thanks for the video and sharing the builds. Good fun.
John


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: sparkle on September 16, 2013, 04:48:10 AM
 ;D Good to see these models flying. Pretty impressive!  8) 8) 8)


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: Marco on September 17, 2013, 07:24:00 AM
Great fun ! thanks for sharing

Marco


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: dputt7 on September 17, 2013, 10:12:23 AM
Thanks for all your comments and support. John I missed your prop question, its a 6" Tern Aero copy that I can't remember where I got it, maybe Shorties Basement, they are quite good and I should get some more.
Dave


Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: LeeU on February 26, 2019, 10:15:18 AM


Old post I know...
Bingo Fuel i joined here to just thank you for posting the photos of the Cobra, just starting a 1/4 scale rubber band powered version, just kiding :) a 12s electric. Thank you so much, those phots will help me a ton.

VR,
LeeU

PS.... you guys impress the heck out of me with your build skills, true crafstman. Just hope i can keep mine around 18 lbs lol

Hi all,

 Finally some of my pics from slides. All taken Sept. 1980 at Cleveland,Ohio USA Burke Airport on Lake Erie. Note many differences between the two. Sundancer has wheels moved back from Orange version. Cowl changed too as it is now very smoothly faired in to fuselage.  Landing gear from Cobra #22 came out of lower wing kink.  Canopy longer On Cobra than Sundancer.  Sundancer has curved wing gulls and Cobra has kinks. Wing fillets different. Lower cowls different. This was not the last color version of Sundancer as it kept evolving.  More pics later.  Bingo    (Oh yeah Pilot was Pat Hines on Sundancer and Al Kramer on Cobra #22)





Title: Re: Biplane Racers - Reno Style
Post by: lincoln on February 26, 2019, 05:45:36 PM
18 lbs??? Sounds heavy.

A 1/4 scale Cobra would have a span of only 4 or 5 feet, wouldn't it? 

I've seen a 4 foot rubber powered model of a Waco. It flew quite well, but it probably weighed less than 18 OUNCES.