Hip Pocket Builders' Forum

Events and Competitions (All Model Categories) => Postal & E-Postal Competitions => Topic started by: Mark Braunlich on February 01, 2014, 09:38:05 AM



Title: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on February 01, 2014, 09:38:05 AM
1960s Winter Cup Postal Rules

•   Dates of the competition:  In keeping with the spirit of a winter free flight event, those living in the Southern Hemisphere will fly June-Sept, 2014.   Those living in the Northern Hemisphere will fly in Dec, 2014 through March, 2015.  Models may be flown on more than one day during the allotted time spans.

•   Models must be built from plans or 3-views published between January, 1960 and December, 1969 (inclusive).    Earlier models that were published in the 1960s may be flown.  Models designed in the 1960s that were not published until later may not be flown in this competition.

•   In the event that models are built to small 3-views lacking detail or clarity, the competitor is allowed to improvise for the missing details but the model should be completed with 1960s’ technology and materials.  Models must not be “modernized” with materials that were not in common use in that decade.  For example, covering should be tissue paper, Silkspan or Modelspan.

•   Each competitor is responsible for being able to prove, if challenged, that the model in question was published in the 1960s time frame.  It is suggested that such documentation be in hand before any given model is constructed for this competition.
 
•   Models must not include VIT, folding wings, or other functions and materials common in modern F1G practice. (No carbon fiber, Kevlar, Mylar)

•   The D/T function should, if possible, be provided with whatever was used on the original for the timing function.  A mechanical timer may only be used if there is shown to exist, documentation that such a timer is appropriate to the airframe in question during the 1960s or if a burning fuse type is illegal in your locale.  Viscous timers are also permitted.

•   Models originally designed for 90gram airframes with 10gram motors may be lightened for this competition.
  
•   Each competitor may fly up to (3) three models but may enter only once.

•   Models must weigh in excess of 70.0 grams less motor.

•   Maximum weight of the motor lubricated is 10.0 grams.

•   Each competitor is on their honor to fly a model to the weight requirements.  The timesheet shall include an initialed statement that the weight of the airframe and the motor(s) used in the official flights meet the weight requirements.

•   Models shall be hand launched.   Jumping is allowed.

•   Each competitor is entitled to (5) five official flights with a maximum of 120 seconds for each official flight.

•   Each competitor shall declare to his/her timekeeper that an official flight is being attempted.
 
•   The timekeeper shall record the duration of the first attempt of the official flight unless the flight is unsuccessful.

•   An unsuccessful attempt shall be any flight of less than 20 seconds.

•   A second unsuccessful attempt at the official flight shall be recorded as a zero time flight.

•   The timekeeper should be positioned near the point of launching and may not follow the model.

•   If (5) five maxes are recorded by a competitor, additional official flight(s) shall be flown with maximum flight durations increasing in 30 second increments, 150, 180, 210, 240 seconds, etc.

•   The competitor and timekeeper shall sign their timesheet and e-mail a scanned image of same to the Contest Director, Mark Braunlich or another delegated to fill the CD role in the event that would be necessary.  Do NOT post your official times in this thread or elsewhere on HPA.
  
•   The three top placing competitors will be awarded modest trophies or plaques provided by myself.  All entrants are encouraged to engage in friendly competition, make new friends and above all: have fun.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on February 01, 2014, 09:43:37 AM
The poll for the 1960s Coupe d'Hiver postal is closed and locked.
  
Results
Yes:   22
No:      6
Maybe: 5

Please continue the discussion, posting of plans and 3-views and photos here.  The amended rules are at the top of this thread so everyone can readily find them.  
Thanks again for all the interest.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: jose on February 01, 2014, 05:35:10 PM
Hello friends, I want to get involved where lanos thanks José. Sorry my bad English translations use...


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on February 02, 2014, 09:45:23 AM
José,
You are very welcome to participate in the postal.

You may like this 1967 Argentine Coupe.

Can a Spanish speaking member here please help José translating his questions?

Thanks in advance.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on February 02, 2014, 09:58:10 AM
Here's Cleo d'Hiver from Aero Modeller, March, 1964.

This is simple enough for anyone to have a go.  ;)  You don't need the undercarriage for this comp.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Broken Strands on February 02, 2014, 01:11:09 PM
George Batiuk's CdH from Dec. 1969 VTO


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Richard Ewing on February 04, 2014, 07:43:09 AM
Here is an interesting design I found while looking for information on Stanislaw Zurad’s coupe:

 I found it in the magazine: modellflygnytt  5 1968
 at: http://www.modellflygnytt.se/gamla.htm


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on February 09, 2014, 03:33:27 PM
I like this Lou DiAblas by Bernard Pradier, Aero Modeller, January, 1962.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: skyrocket on February 11, 2014, 10:37:47 AM
I finally finished Auntie Freez and she came out at 69.2 grams. I'm very pleased with the build and if anyone wants a simple coupe to build that is suprisingly modern in looks (pre-carbon Fiber days that is) this is it...pics


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dosco on February 11, 2014, 10:45:51 AM
I finally finished Auntie Freez and she came out at 69.2 grams. I'm very pleased with the build and if anyone wants a simple coupe to build that is suprisingly modern in looks (pre-carbon Fiber days that is) this is it...pics

Nice.

I was wondering if you could explain how you fabricated the counterweight on your prop assembly?

Regards-
Dave


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on February 11, 2014, 11:04:13 AM
Looks nice. I might do one after a quick Baron Knight but my AF drawing has a square fuselage. Can we infer from the shaft loop that you will be winding without a tube?!
Bill


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: skyrocket on February 11, 2014, 11:07:31 AM
I always (!) use a blast tube but for testing I wind without one and besides, wire hubs just don't look COOL without a loop.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: tctele on February 11, 2014, 02:41:23 PM
Superb ;D


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: skyrocket on February 11, 2014, 04:02:39 PM
Thanks guys, I really enjoyed the build because we've been inside for most of this winter and have all my stuff built/repaired/trashed or just plain drooled over and ready to go for the up coming season. I have been thinking about drawing up a Gloster E.28 prototype jet for a Blue Flame Blaster I've been hoarding for awhile after seeing it in the London Science Museum. So right now I have 2 of everything I plan on flying this year as I don't intend on coming across the pond and just staying here and FLYING. We hold building sessions every Sat. at a local hobby shop in the winter and it is refreshing to see 3-4 youngsters chopping wood and dreaming just like I do now. I'm trying to get a team of 3-4 guys to build coupes for this postal to represent Cleveland, Ohio once again like the old Balsa Butcher's did. You know those guys? Korda, Lanzo and Reich? I'm in touch with guys who flew with them and the stories just keep the flame burning bright.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: jose on February 11, 2014, 04:43:10 PM
Hello friends, any manufactured the Baron Knight? I could build one. Do you think that will fly right?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on February 11, 2014, 05:34:10 PM
Well, I've cut out my ribs. It won contests back in the day.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: skyrocket on February 11, 2014, 06:28:41 PM
I've never heard a bad word about it and it is simple to build. During the first 3 years after it came out, a lot of people flew them and then copied it into their own designs.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on February 11, 2014, 08:20:33 PM
Beautiful Auntie Freez' Dave!  Broken Strands posted the plan at reply #214 of the original thread but here's a slightly bigger version as published in the July, 1964 Aero Modeller for those who may like to build their own.  Those who may be reading this thread for the first time should know there is an earlier thread for this same postal in this same section here at HPA with dozens of plans and 3-views of suitable models for this competition.
See:   http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=16042.0


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Pit on February 12, 2014, 12:54:31 PM
I received the (very well drawn) plan for the PAMELA from isismk2 this last Saturday (THANKS, guy :)) - really surprised at the SHORT transit time of four days.  I'll prolly start on it as soon as I get the dimer that's on the board finished.

Too much time on my hands the last couple of months with either rain+high wind or sunny+force 12 wind and a building slump.  Can't stay focused for more than 30 minutes/day, so I try to make the best of it.  A MAJOR confuser crash this morning has me busy recovering data - so far nothing seems to be really lost...


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on February 12, 2014, 01:51:01 PM
Hello friends, any manufactured the Baron Knight? I could build one. Do you think that will fly right?

I built one about 25 years ago-which is still around (but no longer owned by me)-it was my first Coupe. I initially flew it with the single blade prop as per the plan (single bladed props were fashionable during that era of Coupe) but later changed it to two bladed. It flew well-but was better on the glide than on the climb. Of course that could have been due to my inexperience with the class, and the rubber of the time (FAI black and Champion)

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Bingo Fuel on February 12, 2014, 08:08:15 PM
isismk2  So ya want a Cleveland, Ohio team?  I'm in Willowick so count me in. I never did a coupe before so I will build something simple like the Baron Knight  Coupe or the 7A-05. I need to get in touch with you. You can show me the ropes.  I sure hope the next winter is a bit nicer than this one has been.  I can't imagine trying to fly in winter like this one.   Bingo


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Starduster on February 14, 2014, 02:10:50 PM
Good Gentles all:

I have up-loaded a drawing to the Plans Gallery for Geo. Batiuk Sr.'s "CdH" as cited in the above post by Broken Strands. There are a few dimensions missing, so I did my best, but I think I've got it pretty close.

When Ratz approves it, please go have a look and let me know if you have any suggestions to make it a better drawing.

The drawing is full size, so just take the .pdf down to your local FEDEX/Kinkos and get to work! (or, better yet, have Ratz do the print for you!)

Edit: I noticed two mistakes on the drawing, I have uploaded the revised drawing and Ratz has updated the drawing. If you down-loaded an earlier version, you may want to re-down load the most up-to-date version.

Edit (again) : Sorry, guys... It's Friday afternoon... had to make one more change. Look for Rev 'B"


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on February 14, 2014, 08:45:42 PM
Much appreciated Iceman.  The plan looks great!

Anyone notice that the Auntie Freez' plan calls for 1/8" sheet ribs?   We will assume that's an error, right Dave?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: skyrocket on February 14, 2014, 10:23:42 PM
NAH!!!!....the 3-view I worked from said 1/32" sht ribs....
Hey Bingo Fuel...I live in Mentor, off rt.306...who are you man?...I belong to the Cleveland Free Flight Society and we fly duration and FAC...why don't you come out to Parma Hobby Shop on a Sat. morning and meet us?...we don't bite (or maybe some do) and we like to meet new fliers all the time...ONLY Free Flight spoken!!!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Starduster on February 15, 2014, 07:28:58 AM
Well, the QC guy caught me! (Thanks, Rich!)

I read the stab chord as 2.5. It is supposed to be 3.5. I'll go in and make the change in a little while.

That's why they invented checkers, right?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Starduster on February 15, 2014, 10:17:01 AM
Rev C has been published.

(Sorry, Ratz!)


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on February 16, 2014, 08:56:21 PM
Dvorak, a Czech Coupe from the Feb, 1962 Aero Modeller.  Note that this appears to be a 100g Coupe but may be lightened for this postal competition.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on February 22, 2014, 12:25:41 PM
Here's Ferion by Guy Gludici from the March, 1962 Aero Modeller.  This model had mention early on in the original thread but I don't know if anyone is building it.  Lots of ribs, for which I show the airfoil courtesy of Dave Andreski.  This thing is really beautiful.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on February 22, 2014, 01:17:30 PM
Yes Mark; I think that´s the most attractive coupe I´ve seen. I would struggle to get to 80g


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on March 04, 2014, 07:55:23 PM
Recently discovered that I'd scanned this plan but never posted Nikolina here.  I can mail a full size paper plan at $4 each if anyone wants one.  See reply #84  in the original thread for a pic of this smallish Cd'H.




Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dosco on March 15, 2014, 01:28:09 PM
Perhaps some interesting subjects on this site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157632899126730/page7/  ...? (too much for me to look at for now ...)



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on March 26, 2014, 01:53:08 PM
Anyone building a '60s Cd'H?  I'd love to see some photos here.

Thanks,


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on March 26, 2014, 02:14:13 PM
Mark, I could show you a set of Baron Knight ribs and gussets! I shall be starting a little later in the year.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on March 26, 2014, 04:59:34 PM
Anyone building a '60s Cd'H?  I'd love to see some photos here.

Thanks,


Well since you ask-remnants of a genuine Baron Knight.....what you see here is at least 30 years old-having been built sometime in the period 1982-84. There's a small story here-this was my first ever Coupe, and I subsequently built quite a few more over the intervening years (my current active Coupe fleet numbers 5) -all up I've built about 10 over the years. In 2002 I had a big clear out of models and sold or gave away a significant number of models of all types just to make a bit of space. The Baron Knight and several other rubber models-including two more Coupes-went north to a couple of guys in Palmerston North (I was living in Christchurch at the time) so I didn't expect to see any of them again except possibly coming up against them at the NZ Nats. Ten years later I'm living in Wellington-and flying with these same two guys about once or twice a month-at the regional FF site we all use-about and hour's drive for both of us-though from different directions. One of the two-is somewhat of a luddite, and has neither cellphone nor computer, but is a keen Coupe and small vintage rubber flier. I mentioned the forthcoming Hippocket 60's Coupe postal to him, and at the next flying session passed over a copy of the rules. On the subsequent session-the NI FF Champs (7-9 March just past) he said casually-"I've got something in the car for you" and handed over the remains of my Baron Knight pictured here-having flown it for quite a few years, then wrecked the fuselage in some mishap.....
   So 12 years after disposing of it-it comes back like the prodigal son-so now all I have to do is build a new fuselage and noseblock-plus patch a few holes in the flying surfaces...

  ChrisM
  'ffkiwi'



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on March 28, 2014, 08:13:52 AM
Neat story Chris!  Take some pics as you build the fuselage and share them here please. Will you be using your own original colours on the fuselage?
 Can't wait to see the whole bird.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on March 28, 2014, 02:44:00 PM
I'll be starting work on it in the next few days. I omitted (by accident) from the pictures above, the fin which also came back to me-but with a few ribs missing-so that needs some restorative work as well. The colour scheme was one I used fairly extensively in those days-and still have a liking for-the problem was the lovely blue green 'teal' Jap tissue was fairly scarce-and has been for years-but quite recently A2Z has got some in of this colour so I must restock from them before it's too late.  Now its a nice autumn morning here....I'm off flying.....and as a matter of fact, most of the Coupe fleet will be getting an airing this morning and early afternoon.......

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on April 04, 2014, 02:25:25 AM
Hi Mark

I meant to post this evidence of Dwarf Dip III construction some days ago.
That's a stack of rib blanks at the bottom - should have found a more photogenic angle.
There is more progress by now; prop blade lams; finished ribs; fus sides closer to done.
I'll post more pics as the parts come together.

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on April 04, 2014, 02:34:48 AM
This is Oosh!, George Matherat's 64 winner.

This sketch appeared in Feb 65 MRA.
There was a detailed full size plan which is said to be still available the french '4A' association.

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on April 04, 2014, 11:03:27 PM
More Dwarf Dip

Moulding a blank for the sliced tail plane ribs on a handy all purpose form, the finished wing ribs in the foreground.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on April 07, 2014, 09:15:56 PM
Mark, I have recived a letter from Bill Vanderbeek about his "My Coupe".It was published in his club newsletter (the 900 club) in Dec. of 1969.Then in Aug. 1970 in M.A.N. "VTO" column.This is good news as the plans are available from NFFS.I'll get started as soon as the plans show up.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on April 08, 2014, 02:13:37 PM
Great news Bruce!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on April 10, 2014, 06:51:56 PM
Here is something out of the rut from Charlie Sotich.

Sheet balsa flying surfaces; tube fuselage; fat fin for cross-section.

It appeared in the 66-67 Aeromodeller Annual.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on April 11, 2014, 04:37:37 PM
That's pretty unusual Sean.  Thanks for posting the plan.  Unusual wing curve.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on April 11, 2014, 04:55:47 PM
Here's another small one:

http://carstensbookstore.com/micod.html


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on April 11, 2014, 10:37:20 PM
Mark

that is the Bilgri model from Flying Models that I mentioned back in post #156 of the first thread.
I could sopply the article (without the plan) if you like.
There are some nice pics and building tips.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on April 11, 2014, 10:52:28 PM
The 70-71 AeroModeller Annual has 5 C d'Hs

Some, perhaps all, were originally published prior to 1970

The first is Linstrum's Union Jack Frost on p30. It comes from ModelAirplaneNews.

Can anyone tell us which issue (probably in VTO in 69 or 70) ?

Three more are mentioned in the first 60s CdH thread :

Lenderman's AMA record holder on p40 is mentioned in post #115 and later

I asked about Cognet on p43 in post #169.

There is another drawing of Raulin on p58. Mark posted an earlier drawing in post #27 of the first thread.


Then on p90 we find Paolo Vittori's Italian Champ. 

Following one of Lincon's leads I some how got to this site

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/periodicidue.asp

Amongst a wealth of other goodies one finds Modellistica for 1969, which contains the pages below.

Sorry about the fuzzy scans. That the original.

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on April 12, 2014, 09:31:11 AM
Mark

that is the Bilgri model from Flying Models that I mentioned back in post #156 of the first thread.
I could sopply the article (without the plan) if you like.
There are some nice pics and building tips.

If you can get the article scanned and posted here, that would be great Sean.  I'd like to read it.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on April 12, 2014, 08:02:23 PM
OK Mark

Joe Bilgri's Mini from Sept '67 Flying Models, page 1


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on April 12, 2014, 08:04:09 PM
Bilgri's Mini, page 2


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on April 12, 2014, 08:13:14 PM
Something weird happened with the last post, so try again.

Bilgri's Mini page 3


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on April 13, 2014, 09:34:01 AM
Beginners, thanks to Sean we have the Mini model article posted here.  The Mini looks to be an ideal beginner Cd'H model so why not send $10 to http://carstensbookstore.com/micod.html and have a go at this postal?   Or have a look at several of the other plans posted on the two 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal threads.  The rules appear in the first post of this thread.  



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on April 14, 2014, 12:21:50 AM
A bit more work on Dwarf Dip.

The laminations for the prop blades.

The bottom two layers are feathered toward the tip and the edges
so that the finished blades will have at least two laminations near the edges and three lams at the thickest part of thr section.
1mm sheet thinned to about 0.5mm at the tip and less near the edges.

The auto focus is not too good but the pic conveys the idea I hope.

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on April 16, 2014, 01:50:23 AM
Dwarf Dip creeps a little further.

The form shown on the Dwarf Dip plan is very close to true helical at 22" pitch.
Incidently the blade shape that fits the form is wider near the middle and narrower at the tip than the pattern shown.

I have a number of helical forms that can be used as 'building boards' for both indoor and outdoor props.
When dealing with things helical it seems more natural to work with the pitch per radian which is the radius where the helical angle is 45o.  My forms have pitch per radian 10cm, 12cm, 14cm, and 16.5cm.
I probably need another at 8 to 8.5cm to cover the practical range.

I'm moulding the DD blades on a form with pich of about 25" pitch. (the 10cm form)
The finished blades will be rigged at 30o at 6" radius as shown on the plan.
The 'error' in the middle part of the blade will be negligible and there will be just less than 1owashout at the tip.
Thats less than 1/2 mm twist and at the limit of constuction accuracy for nost of us.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on April 16, 2014, 05:35:45 AM
Help! - here's a real beginner's question.
I have just glued together the two inner wing panels on a Baron Knight. The plan says " 1" here", pointing to the outer inner/tip break. So I put one panel flat and propped the other up two inches. It looks too much, and more than on the model photo on the plan. It also says 4 1/2" total at the tip.
I know I am going to mess this up - have done so before. Have I misread it? Should it be half inch under each inner panel?
thanks


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on April 16, 2014, 06:26:45 AM
I think it looks OK Bill, compared to the photo with the plan.
That is how I would interpret the plan and if the inner panels are about 12" long its not too much.
To get 4-1/2" total you should raise the tips about 3" with the corresponding cemtre panel flat.
These models needed a lot of dihedral to ROG safely.

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on April 16, 2014, 06:43:35 AM
Correction Bill

2-1/2" tip rise with the centre panel flat on the board will be closer to the mark for 4-1/2" total.

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on April 16, 2014, 07:16:43 AM
Thank you - I shall carry on.
See, Mark - I've started!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: tctele on April 16, 2014, 01:14:54 PM
Trust me Bill you're not the only one who does this, on my OD models I always sand it in as I always get it wrong, I'm even worse bending wire!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on April 23, 2014, 11:59:35 PM
Dwarf Dip Prop Progress

The blades came out with 'geological' rather than aerodynamic sections due to me skipping a packing pad to control the under-camber.
I just pressed the laminations down near the middle as I pinned around the edges allowing them to bubble up a little.
One blade needed about 1/2 mm fill near the centre. You can just make it out in the 2nd pic.
The back side of both blades and the top side of one are nearly done.
You can see that the top lamination extends to within 5 mm of the TE on the shaped blade because of the feathered laminations.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on May 02, 2014, 01:32:24 PM
I have nearly finished the fuselage for my Barron Knight. This is quite the most tedious and difficult 'simple' fuselage I have built. I had to build it between two straight pieces of square timber to keep it straight. I would love to see the other one I made in 1965 at the age of 14! Must have been horrible.
I suppose it set the trend for long fuselages.
What happened to Dave White? He seemed to just disappear.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on June 02, 2014, 09:00:00 AM
Just a reminder that with the arrival of June, the 4 month window for official flights is now open for those living in the Southern Hemisphere.   Please review the rules at the first post in this thread before flying and sending in your scores.   Good luck to all those down under.

Also, I'd appreciate seeing some photos / videos posted of any models under construction or finished or in flight. 


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on June 02, 2014, 07:04:53 PM
Standby-the rebuild of the Baron Night is nearly done....covering later this week

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on June 03, 2014, 12:13:52 PM
Looks good Chris.  As I recall, the BKII has tapered longerons. Did you taper them?  I only ask because it seems like that would not be fun.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on June 03, 2014, 03:07:14 PM
No-as published the plan does not show tapered longerons. As Bill Dennis noted earlier, the fuselage seems deceptively simple until you actually try to build it-when you find its both fiddly and hard to keep straight. I'm wondering how I managed it the first time more than 30 years ago-as I recall my original was not exactly straight.....this one is....

 ChrisM
'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: D/T on June 03, 2014, 05:53:43 PM
It was the Garter Knight, not Baron, that showed tapered longerons, 1/8" --> 3/32" from memory. I do not expect many did it!

D/T


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on June 04, 2014, 06:12:56 AM
More work on Dwarf Dip

I built the tailplane.
It came out quite stiff in torsion but about 1 gm heavier than I would like due to the wide TE and the spruce spar I thought it needed.
I found it fiddly to make. Trad geodetic with spar on top would be faster and stronger for the same weight.

My slap dash prop blade moulding efforts came unstuck. (see post #59 above)
While shaping the second blade I realised some areas had de-laminated.
I tried to fix it with slits and injected glue but ended with a mess.
So I made a pad to go on the mould to form the under camber ready to do a third blade properly.
(Charlie Sotich warned in his instructions that one should make 3 blades)
Then I thought I might as well try to salvage the malformed blade .
 I soaked it in water for some hours which got the wrinkles out of the mangled laminations,
injected a bit more glue into the de-laminated areas, pinned it down and left it overnight.
It worked except for a minor blemish; wood stains from the pins.

Like ChrisM, I'm thinking Dwarf Dip is more fiddly than it needs to be.

Next will be the wings and the prop hub. At least the hub is pretty standard.

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: 151-30 on June 04, 2014, 04:40:08 PM
             . this is 1968 Yves Sargentini french champion replica under building.
complete drawings and détails found in various MRA.
made with real vintage components from a dusty box in the back of my garage/
-LERC fiberglas rod, my latest yellow modelspan sheet, nose bearing.......etc...
-not yet found 1968 pirrelli on "e-bay" (but I still have lots of 1986 orange variety.....if you want some just ask)

I started CH contests with my father in 1972 with B.Boutiller 130-12 direct evolution of Sargentini's model (Grenoble school) and remember so it is a real replica.

(perhaps I will have a "certificate of conformity" from Yves himself, still active glider pilot , friend of mine.)

     I need just to have enought spare time this summer for test flying before this winter contest .

     More news later

              Yours frienly


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on June 04, 2014, 05:09:47 PM
Welcome 151-30!!  (Maybe you can let us know your christian name?)  About time we had a French modeller join the fun.

The '68 Sargentini replica looks magnificent!  Please keep us updated with your progress and thanks for sharing.

And before anyone asks, yes, the fiberglass rod is permitted as it was in the original '68 model.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on June 11, 2014, 02:50:45 AM
Well the Baron knight is done-original wing and tailplane, new fuselage, rebuilt original fin, and prop assembly a mix of new and old. Just a couple of tapered shims required to set a couple of degrees right thrust. Otherwise good to go......
heavier than I'd like at 80g, but with an old 3/16 motor fitted, CG is around 75% which is not too bad, and about the middle of the CG range I tried on the original 30+ years ago (68-80%)

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on June 11, 2014, 06:50:28 AM
Nice prop blades SOC! I usually do those bits last. I can't believe how BIG some of these coupes are.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on June 11, 2014, 11:45:17 PM
Thanks for the encouragement Tim.

I've done a little more in spite of an energy sapping cold.

Turned out that a jig I had on hand will be just right for these blades.

The blades are coloured with wood dye.
Nice solid colour which does not seem to fade and barely detectable weight gain.

I hope you get some scores soon Chris.
We have been missing some great weather here; more like what is expected in May.

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on June 12, 2014, 07:04:45 AM
Sean they look like Sleek Streak blades!
I like it a lot.

Meanwhile I'm getting way ahead of myself and thinking about the flying technicalities.
Can I use a bubble machine?
Mylar streamer?
Thermistor?

Can I swing a 60s knitted cardigan around my head to try to detach thermals from the ground surface?

I hope everyone is using 60s (Dunlop?) rubber. I don't want to see any 5/99 motors sneaking in   :D ;D :D ;D

Just kidding - and hope your cold is better.
Tim


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on June 12, 2014, 07:32:32 AM

Can I use a bubble machine?
Mylar streamer?
Thermistor?


If we have to fly Dec-March in the N hemisphere I will be using an overcoat and gauntlets, if I can find somewhere to fly that time of year. I suspect winter means different things in, say, Scotland and Miami!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on June 12, 2014, 04:02:15 PM
Sean -I hope to take it out tomorrow (Sat 14th) for a trimming session........

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Bingo Fuel on June 13, 2014, 10:49:51 PM
Hi all,
  Bill Dennis and FFkiwi,  as to your Barron Knight IIs, I see on the plan there is to be a 1/16" wash in at the outer rib of the right wing inner panel at the leading edge?  I have never seen wash out or wash in given for a leading edge before.  Then there is to be 1/8" wash out for both outer panels?  I understand the wash out part but why the leading edge wash in on the right inner panel? Isin't leading edge wash in the same as trailing edge wash out?  I am going with building the Barron Knight II myself and hope to learn a bit from you two.  As stated above the Garter Knight has tapered longerons but the plan for the Barron seems to also as drawn.  The width of the longerons at the front of the fuselage is a bit wider than at the rear but the plan says just 3/32".  I've started cutting wing ribs and other bits.  I have never built a Coupe before or anything like it accept for a old Victoria Parker.  I'm sure I will learn a bit.  Regards,  Bingo


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on June 14, 2014, 01:55:14 AM
I see on the plan there is to be a 1/16" wash in at the outer rib of the right wing inner panel at the leading edge?  I have never seen wash out or wash in given for a leading edge before.  Then there is to be 1/8" wash out for both outer panels?  I understand the wash out part but why the leading edge wash in on the right inner panel? Isin't leading edge wash in the same as trailing edge wash out?  I am going with building the Barron Knight II myself and hope to learn a bit from you two.  As stated above the Garter Knight has tapered longerons but the plan for the Barron seems to also as drawn.  The width of the longerons at the front of the fuselage is a bit wider than at the rear but the plan says just 3/32". 
Hi Bingo
I think the washin confusion is down to convention. It is normally shown at the TE but as drawn on this free plan, there is no room. Wherever the words are written, it means the same thing - more incidence, not less. I suppose in practical terms, the LE is the best place to signify washin because you pack up the LE, and vice versa! I just got off the phone to our John O'Donnell who knows one or two tips, and he flies flat wings with just a 1/8 washout on left inner (flying right/right)
John also says the prop is inefficient. I shall be making an alternative two blader for other events; 18" x 20" with 1 1/2" wide blades
No longeron taper! I never met John White but looking at the picture of this Yorkshireman with his model, he doesn't look the kind of bloke to taper longerons! Life is too short to taper longerons, or stuff a mushroom for that matter


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on June 14, 2014, 07:03:11 AM
Because it is easier to build by propping up the LE the required amount at the dihedral break than by doing the equivalent to a tilted TE......in other words, suppose you require 1/8" washin on the starboard inner (on a polyhedral wing obviously!)-you can build this in (which is the only safe way of doing it BTW) by propping up the LE 1/8" at the dihedral break, or the TE at the centre-both options generate 1/8" washin at the starboard dihedral joint-but if you're building an undercambered wing, then you've already got the TE shimmed up to match the airfoil underside camber as you build. [of course if you have the luxury of a cambered building board, this doesn't apply...]

Just make sure you know the difference between washin and washout-and the roles both warps play on the wing, and consequent model trim....

 Personally, I think 1/16" is way too inadequate for the Baron Knight-I'd go with 1/8" (which is what mine has-and most of my other locked down Coupes). Coupes-being about the lowest powered of the traditional rubber duration classes, seems to need generous amounts on washin on the inner wing under power-amounts that would be considered excessive on faster flying models. They also seem to need a lot of right thrust-though that has a lot to do with the relatively short nose moment...


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on June 14, 2014, 07:20:03 AM
I fully agree with Bill's comments above-and fully endorse his quotes from the great J O'D. The BN-II prop is a bit of a shocker-but under the rules we can't really change it, so are stuck with a pretty inefficient SB folder. On my original built 30+ years ago-as detailed earlier in this thread, I changed to a two bladed folder-simply using a spare prop blade-and got improved performance,. These days I'd use a Bob White Coupe prop (another man who knew what he was doing when it came to Coupes...)

  I can also report that the old-new Baron Knight had its maiden flights this morning, on a soaking wet Rayner's farm- and survived more or less in one piece, though the thrust line still needs a bit more right sanded in (which I couldn't do accurately on the field) and a surprising amount of right rudder was required to get a decent right-right pattern-surprising because it already has a lot of tail tilt built in. Cost me about 5 motors blown though, and a broken prop in the end brought things to a halt.

 Heading up to Levin tomorrow to fly P-30 with the Palmerston north FFers, and will continue trimming there, having repaired the prop, and sorted the thrustline earlier this evening, as well as having modified the stooge pin position so the wing doesn't interfere with it.

 I can tell you the glide is definitely as good as I remember from all those decades ago......it just floats (but then it needs to, as it struggles to get much above telephone pole height on that less than ideal prop....!)

  ChrisM
  'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Bingo Fuel on June 14, 2014, 04:40:15 PM
Hi all,

  Thanks Bill and ffkiwi for your input on the wing of BKII.  With the negative comments on its propeller, I don't know if I want to continue with it.  I know its a great flier but I sure don't like that low ceiling it reaches with the motor run.  Garter Knight is also appealing to me and I have the plan with its much higher pitch prop.  I also have the full size plan for Deuzio which is nice .  There is zero info on the plan about the nose block and only the blade shape for the prop.   I wasn't even sure if it was a single or two blader.  I see from the article posted earlier that it is two.  I need the info in the 69-70 AM annual for that information. I guess it is now a toss up as to Deuzio or Garter Knight. I'm sort of glad I didn't go too far into the BKII project.  I better get going though.  Again thanks for the help.  Bingo


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on June 14, 2014, 05:06:54 PM
Baron Knight was apparently a winner in its day though


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on June 16, 2014, 08:53:40 AM
Baron Knight was apparently a winner in its day though

Must have been successful enough to inspire the name of this Swedish Cd'H.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on June 16, 2014, 09:16:34 AM
My money would be on the Swedish model! I just wish it wasn't tubes. I used to have a snooker (pool) cue but no longer


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on June 16, 2014, 09:44:21 PM
Baron Knight was apparently a winner in its day though

Must have been successful enough to inspire the name of this Swedish Cd'H.

Indeed-definitely a BN influence-but I see they had an attack of commonsense and used a two bladed prop


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on June 26, 2014, 08:26:42 AM
Well its cold out here in the shed  so it must be winter, so I've finally settled on what to build for this postal. After seeing the few photos of Dave's lovely Drobeck  and rereading some of the posts I decided on what I think is the Ziac version of this Coupe, I like the sheeted forward fuse and the extra dihedral. I have used the Ziac plan with extra info found in this other version http://rc-model.rajce.idnes.cz/Almanach_planku_Radoslava_Cizka/#Drobek_-_volny_vykonny_model_s_gumovyn_pohonem_kat._Coupe_d_hiver_-_1961.jpg   its a pity I can't read any of the notations on the plan as they are to blurry but I can make a reasonable guess, and of course there's all of you to help me out. My main problem will be building it light enough, I've put away my cyno and opened the Titebond, fired up my scales and weighed some wood, I would have ordinarily used .062" wire for the cabane on a model this size but I bent the first one from .055" wire then bent one from .047" wire and finally settled on .039" wire saving nearly 2 grams. As it stands in the photo it's 25 grams so I guess I'm already behind the eight ball  :o ;D


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on June 26, 2014, 11:00:13 AM
1960s Winter Cup Postal Rules
those living in the Southern Hemisphere will fly June-Sept, 2014.
Yep, the pressure is on Down-Under. And the winter is definitely here as Dave says. 
Getting organised for this one I even bought a short pool cue at a market last week to use as a rear tube form.
And tonight spent a very relaxing evening cutting 30-odd ribs for the wing. (A Guy Cognet Coupe. I'm assuming that the rear part is a tapered tube because the dimensions talk about diameters...  but the front is square... so the join will be interesting.)
cheers
Tim


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: sparkle on June 26, 2014, 04:27:27 PM
 ;D Good to see you boys having a go! I expect it is cold down there as it's cool up here too! I don't have a big enough local field up here, so I'm just going to watch!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: mike on June 28, 2014, 06:47:18 AM
........your Barron Knight IIs, I see on the plan there is to be a 1/16" wash in at the outer rib of the right wing inner panel at the leading edge?  I have never seen wash out or wash in given for a leading edge before.  Then there is to be 1/8" wash out for both outer panels?  I understand the wash out part but why the leading edge wash in on the right inner panel? Isin't leading edge wash in the same as trailing edge wash out? .......

This caught me out when I built my first one in 1966.  I built 1/16th in. washout into the right inner.  The first part of the flight was tight flat right-hand circles every time!  I got the second one right in that regard and made it a two blade prop.
Placed 11th in the Aeromodeller postal in 1967!

I just pulled out the plan........

Mike F


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Bingo Fuel on June 28, 2014, 10:44:26 AM
dpuut7 and all,  Wow your fuselage for Drobek is fantastic.  I do agree that it is one very good looking Coupe.  I can't wait to see more of it.  I've seen Dave's in person and it is really nice.  Regards.  Bingo


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on June 28, 2014, 11:10:35 AM
I am interested in the long/short tail moment thing. The Drobek is very short - the Baron Knight long. I can understand a long tail on an area-limited class like F1A but not on Coupe, or indeed the British 50g class. My guru is John O'Donnell and he flies a long fuse 50g because he says it flies more nicely - but longer? I like shorter fuses, like Matveev's wake in the 1965 WC. If I am struggling to build down to a weight, it seems perverse to carry all that wood around.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on June 30, 2014, 05:37:22 AM
Bill - are you saying I shoulda bought a longer pool cue?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on June 30, 2014, 05:43:54 AM
Hi Mark
No, but my long-fuse models always end up with 150% cg!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on June 30, 2014, 09:26:14 AM
Hi all - good times - glue smell everywhere - balsa shavings - we'll get there!
That's a pretty complicated tailplane just saying...
Tim


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: sparkle on June 30, 2014, 04:27:30 PM
 ;D very neat work as usual Tim!  8)


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 01, 2014, 04:00:57 AM
Hey Tim, we should get together, your flying surfaces and my fuse  ::)
I have a question about wing joiners, the Dobrek has each wing joined in the center with 2 short dowels to locate the wings with what looks like a single tube and dowel wing joiner to carry the load, Can I use some Aluminium tube and a 3/16 hardwood dowel or would it need something like 3/32 wire.  Thanks
Dave


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on July 01, 2014, 07:32:26 AM
Dave,
How about ø1/8 bamboo skewer in paper tube?  I did that with the two halves of 1936 Judge Wakefield wing with no problems over many years of flying.  Overlap of dowel in tube was one full rib bay.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 01, 2014, 08:07:39 AM
Thanks Mark, I just found some bamboo Skewers that fit nicely into 3/16 O.D. Alum. tube that I'll probably use, If you think that 1/8th is OK as I tend to over engineer things anyway. My previous use of paper tubes was a disaster  :o


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on July 01, 2014, 10:53:54 AM
Dave,
Dope the paper before rolling, let it dry and then use cellulose based cement while rolling the paper.  Never had a problem.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Hepcat on July 01, 2014, 11:03:49 AM
Reference reply #94.

Dave,
All my Coupes, except the very early ones, had two piece wings plugging onto a straight wire joiner that fitted in a tube in the fuselage.  Now I know that you are only talking about a wing joiner but the main points are the same.  My wings were 50" span and the joiner 1/16" diameter piano wire, about 4 inches long.  Joiners 3/32" dia are too heavy and too strong.  In a strong wind, or heavy landing the 1/16" joiner will flex amazing amounts and I don't think I have broken a wing since using them.  I did try 1/16" carbon rod joiners but they broke. I don't know if it was poor quality carbon but as it was such a job getting the broken pieces out (they broke off flush with tube ends) that I stayed with wire. The wires went into aluminium tubes.  I strongly recommend using a straight joiner wire, not one bent for dihedral - they are a pain.  Angle the tubes in the wing instead.  It is not relevant to your set up but, for completeness, at the root trailing edge I fixed a short piece of 0.032 dia which plugged into the fuselage side to set incidence.

John


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 02, 2014, 03:18:47 AM
Thanks Fellas, Mark, I made some paper tube for a Easy B many years ago and they worked perfectly, then recently I tried again and ended up with a sticky mess. I even reread the original article to see what I was doing wrong but it was no help.
John, that's familiar territory, just wasn't sure about the stiffness required. Fully agree about bent joiners, can end up with anhedral.
regards Dave


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on July 02, 2014, 09:54:01 AM
Just a bit more work...  leaving the prop till last as I don't know how to do that bit


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on July 02, 2014, 04:11:09 PM
My Barron Knight is ready for covering. Should come in under 70g. I think it was a poor choice - everyone says the prop is rubbish. It is certainly flexible and I shall probably glass it and reinforce the root. Once the Postal is done I will make a proper prop, but I would also like to try one of the better designs Mark has posted.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on July 02, 2014, 04:14:20 PM
Forgot the photo...


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on July 02, 2014, 04:15:11 PM
and again! Losing the plot


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 03, 2014, 09:10:06 AM
Bingo, thanks for the compliment. I'm sorry I missed your post. Has Dave flown his Dobrek yet?
Tim you are "sailing" along. I guess your other project is in dry dock. Have you worked out how to join the fuselage halves.
Bill your Baron knight looks neat, you're well ahead of schedule maybe time to build another!
regards Dave


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on July 03, 2014, 09:50:57 AM
Hi Dave - the girls like to say that blokes can't do two things at once - but here's a boat and a plane - neither of them in danger of being finished any time soon - but I'm getting there.
The round peg in the square hole situation will arise very soon tho - and think I will make sure that the rear peg goes through both somehow... as my Czech friends would say: 'is problem'
cheers
Tim


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on July 03, 2014, 11:52:24 AM
Tim,
You can't derail this thread with a model boat....a model train maybe but not a boat.  Bill uses a bicycle.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Pit on July 03, 2014, 06:08:45 PM
Square fuz end former (or two) with a hole for the T-bone... err, boom.  Just be sure to keep the plane out of the boat wake - water vortices might wreak the flight ::)...


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 04, 2014, 02:27:50 AM
Thought I'd better put on a "as it stands" photo, as expected I'm struggling with weight. I think I should have built a simpler coupe, no pylon and a one piece wing would save a few grams but I like the style of Dobrek and I need to be interested in the model to see it through.
regards Dave


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on July 04, 2014, 06:52:44 AM
> You can't derail this thread with a model boat....a model train maybe but not a boat.

I see what you did there Mark... derail... train...
The only 'wake' here Pit will be for the coupes that don't get to the flight line in time.  :D

Dave, the Drobek looks good. I haven't had the courage to weigh mine yet. I think the fuzz pod is a debacle... and may need to be redone.
cheers
Tim


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on July 04, 2014, 01:50:50 PM
I was hoping someone had started construction on their Nikolina and might be able to steer me away from any  problems. Hope to have it finished in time for Postal flight's after the first of the year.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on July 04, 2014, 02:33:51 PM
I built one when I was young but the thin wing was beyond my skills. I vaguely remember there was a problem with the prop drawing in Aeromodeller that was subsequently corrected. This may have been discussed.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: sparkle on July 04, 2014, 06:23:48 PM
 ;D It's all good Dave, I figure when building planes, one builds with his head, but chooses with his heart!  ::)  which sometimes means  :'( !


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Bargle on July 04, 2014, 06:59:07 PM
;D It's all good Dave, I figure when building planes, one builds with his head, but chooses with his heart!  ::)  which sometimes means  :'( !

Dead on. I no longer start a plane that isn't calling 'build me', strongly.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on July 04, 2014, 08:25:53 PM
I am happy to see you all read my question. My heart was first and  now I will put my thinking cap on and get busy. The plan problem was corrected regarding the prop area in question. Got it here on HPA by the way.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Starduster on July 04, 2014, 10:22:25 PM
OK, you guys are having way too much fun.

I've started construction of George Batiuk's CdH (see page one of this thread or my CAD Drawing: http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=6234&mode=search )

So far I went to Kinkos and got two copies printed of the drawing, cut out the rudder and fin, striped the 3/32 square for the fuselage and glued the 1/6th sheet for the forward fuselage.

I don't know that I'll be able to enter in this postal, though, as I will be making a couple of deviations:

1) I will be using a KSB DT clock-work timer.

2) As there is no information about the front-end, I will be using an old FAI Models 'Teeney Torque" Montreal stop mechanism. I am aware that a Montreal Stop is not "period", but building front ends has always been my nemesis.

I'll leave it up to you guys whether to allow me to enter the airplane or not. I'm going to build it no matter what, though...



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: lincoln on July 04, 2014, 11:35:55 PM
Anyone know what the G103 airfoil referred to in the plan for the NEWG Moth coupe is? Plan appears here:
http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=16042.msg128595#msg128595

Thanks


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 05, 2014, 05:25:29 AM
What happened to the smiley face king, John, not a smiley face to be seen!
Look forward to seeing some photos Iceman.
Well tailplane built and all up so far 62gms  :o Just have to make the prop and cover the airframe in 8 grams  ::)
This model was supposed to weigh 106 grams ready to fly but we are flying at 80 grams, hard for me to see where I can close the gap.
 About to start a new fuse.
regards Dave


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on July 05, 2014, 06:37:54 AM
My Baron Knight is covered now with two coats of dope. It is well under weight (about all the design has going for it) so I can afford maybe two more. It will need ballast - wish I could use a Tomy!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: sparkle on July 05, 2014, 07:02:56 AM
 ;D Nice picture of the cat Dave!  ;D I'm trying to tell from the look on his/ her face whether its giving you the seal of approval! Apparently not a seal, but a cat! arf, arf  ::) ::)


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Starduster on July 05, 2014, 10:25:20 AM
Look forward to seeing some photos Iceman.

A few pictures to start:

1) Fuselage sides cut, pylon assembled, rudder and fin cut.
2) Forward fuselage sides. I decided to make the wood grain vertical for strength.
3) Completed pylon
4) Completed pylon with DT timer test fit.
5) Rudder and fin
6) Foward fuselage start construction.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: lincoln on July 05, 2014, 02:47:46 PM
BTW, there's a slim chance that I'd participate in this contest. If I did, I wouldn't use a fuse, whether or not it's legal around here. A fuse would mean I was only comfortable flying when the ground was wet.  When the weather's been dry for a while, there's a lot of dry, flammable material sitting around. Dried grass, dead leaves, etc. I understand about snuffer tubes, but that would only work when the model flew correctly.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on July 05, 2014, 03:58:49 PM
BTW, there's a slim chance that I'd participate in this contest. If I did, I wouldn't use a fuse, whether or not it's legal around here. A fuse would mean I was only comfortable flying when the ground was wet.  When the weather's been dry for a while, there's a lot of dry, flammable material sitting around. Dried grass, dead leaves, etc. I understand about snuffer tubes, but that would only work when the model flew correctly.
It isn't dry here midwinter! As soon as the postal is over, in goes a tomy timer, and a second prop blade.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on July 06, 2014, 03:17:16 AM
Dwarf Dip is closer to completion, but there is endless fiddly detail.
I guess DDII would have been a better choice.
Looks like Dave and Tim will overtake me; they get first use of the weather too!

Mark, could you clarify the flying period ?
Is September included in "June to September" ?

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: lincoln on July 06, 2014, 03:37:37 AM
It can be either way here in the winter. Obviously not as bad as in the summer, though. Still. I can just see it dropping a spark onto someone's oily snowblower and making a lot of trouble. Or perhaps lighting up a dried, discarded Christmas tree. One of the flying sites I use has dense stands of reed which are quite dry in the winter.

 Much of the time we don't have snow on the ground, though it's different every year.

BTW, there's a slim chance that I'd participate in this contest. If I did, I wouldn't use a fuse, whether or not it's legal around here. A fuse would mean I was only comfortable flying when the ground was wet.  When the weather's been dry for a while, there's a lot of dry, flammable material sitting around. Dried grass, dead leaves, etc. I understand about snuffer tubes, but that would only work when the model flew correctly.
It isn't dry here midwinter! As soon as the postal is over, in goes a tomy timer, and a second prop blade.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 06, 2014, 08:26:43 AM
Long way to go yet Sean, at least you know what you are doing!

Question! Prop blades, I have the diameter and pitch on the plan, so can I mould the blades on a form or wrap them around a can rather than try to find a suitable block to carve it from?
regards Dave


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on July 06, 2014, 08:37:50 AM
Sean,
Yes, September is included in the flying period for those in the Southern Hemisphere.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on July 06, 2014, 05:06:44 PM
OK, you guys are having way too much fun.

I've started construction of George Batiuk's CdH (see page one of this thread or my CAD Drawing: http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=6234&mode=search )

So far I went to Kinkos and got two copies printed of the drawing, cut out the rudder and fin, striped the 3/32 square for the fuselage and glued the 1/6th sheet for the forward fuselage.

I don't know that I'll be able to enter in this postal, though, as I will be making a couple of deviations:

1) I will be using a KSB DT clock-work timer.

2) As there is no information about the front-end, I will be using an old FAI Models 'Teeney Torque" Montreal stop mechanism. I am aware that a Montreal Stop is not "period", but building front ends has always been my nemesis.


I'll leave it up to you guys whether to allow me to enter the airplane or not. I'm going to build it no matter what, though...



I wouldn't use a KSB-way too heavy-they're about 20g-which is way way too much weight to put in a Coupe (unless you're deliberately going for the 100g class...;-)  at best you want a Tomy or equivalent electronic timer, unless you like messing about with those pestiferous viscous types

(this should not be taken as any criticism of the KSB itself-they're excellent timers-I have about a dozen of them in use-reliable and easy to set-but in this case just too heavy for the proposed model class......)

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on July 06, 2014, 09:37:27 PM
                       Question!     Prop blades, I have the diameter and pitch on the plan, so can I mould the blades on a form or wrap them around a can rather than try to find a suitable block to carve it from?
                                                                                                                                             regards Dave

Yes! 


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 07, 2014, 03:07:47 AM
Thanks Mark  ;D


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 09, 2014, 08:35:57 AM
OK fuse number 2 completed, this is a new experience for me, being a mostly design as you go scale builder I don't usually rebuild major parts but as this is so limited in power I had to do something to reduce the growing weight. The first fuse used 6lb 3/32" sheet sides and 3/32 square longerons of about 10 lb wood.  I stripped some 7 lb 3/32 but could not bring myself to use such flimsly balsa on such a vital part so I used the same 10 lb wood with diagonals of 1/16th and built a full length structure and sheeted the forward section with 8 lb 1/32, I also saved a bit redesigning the pylon and saved 10 grams. This was a useful exercise but it took the gloss of an otherwise enjoyable build. Its easy to see the advantages of continually building / rebuilding the same model and improving it as you go but there are far to many models on my list for this practice to continue.
regards Dave


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: sparkle on July 09, 2014, 04:32:56 PM
 :( I feel your pain!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on July 09, 2014, 05:58:22 PM
Among all the areas where you can save weight-scrimping on the longerons is NOT the place to do it.....you made a wise decision not to use the 7-lb stock.  Spacers....yes, longerons no. I generally use 10 or 12-lb wood for 3/32"  longerons for Coupe and/or small vintage...

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on July 10, 2014, 01:47:09 PM
My Baron Knight is about done but I can see no info on the plan as to where to stick the cg. But then I can't see the butter in the fridge either. Can anyone give me a clue before I settle for halfway?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: PeeTee on July 10, 2014, 03:13:49 PM
Bill, most of the 50s coupes had the CofG in the 60-70% range. The Garter Knight CofG is 73%, but the 'experts' (not me) who fly gadgetless models suggest 60% or slightly further forward plus more decalage to help climb during the cruise. I'd have thought 50% is perhaps a bit far forward, but for me the aim would be to get something in the ballpark without adding noseweight - unless of course you need it to get up to 70g.

Peter


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on July 10, 2014, 03:45:02 PM
Thanks Peter. Yes, I just spoke with J O'D and he says the same. Somehow I have managed to get this thing down to 58g, so I can ballast away to my heart's content


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: DaddyO on July 10, 2014, 03:50:04 PM
My Baron Knight is about done but I can see no info on the plan as to where to stick the cg. But then I can't see the butter in the fridge either. Can anyone give me a clue before I settle for halfway?

I'd suggest 50% is a bit far forward Bill, my coupes have CofG's about 10-15% further back. As Peter suggests slightly further forward might help the cruise part of the climb, but too far forward means a big old loop at the start, so lots of downthrust needed which might kill the cruise . . .  :-\

I'd put it at 60% and take it from there
Paul
ps The butter's behind the dish of salad stuff  :D


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on July 10, 2014, 04:01:36 PM
Found it!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on July 10, 2014, 04:48:27 PM
My Baron Knight is about done but I can see no info on the plan as to where to stick the cg. But then I can't see the butter in the fridge either. Can anyone give me a clue before I settle for halfway?

A rather serious oversight omission from the plan as I discovered with the latest rebuild [it might also explain why I struggled with the original one back in the early 80s...]  The 60-70% suggestions are good-I do recall eventually gluing a piece of sheet lead (~4g) on the nose of the original, towards the end of the time I flew it-so must have started with a fairly aft CG initially. 50% I would consider too far forward for a conventional Coupe layout......mind you there have been the seriously unconventional ones as well.............which I wouldn't presume to comment on as far as CG is concerned...

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Bingo Fuel on July 10, 2014, 07:48:11 PM
Hi all,  I'm going with Brass Monkey from the tiny plan in June '63 Model Airplane News.  I never built a box fuselage with all warren truss so to me putting the two sides together should be a challenge.  Some things seem strange on it like  1/8" sq longerons forward of the wing and 3/32" sq behind the wing.  The truss parts all 1/16" sq?  But with help, I had the plan blown up to full size of which not everything measures out right so I guess I will have to redraw the whole thing.   Anyone out there built Brass Monkey?   Any tips would be welcome.  Regards,   Bingo


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on July 10, 2014, 11:23:43 PM
Thanks Peter. Yes, I just spoke with J O'D and he says the same. Somehow I have managed to get this thing down to 58g, so I can ballast away to my heart's content

58g?/?  Hells teeth- I wish I could manage to build like that-I've never built a Coupe down to weight yet-in 30+ years of trying-my best came in at 74g.............

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: troglodite on July 11, 2014, 01:46:59 AM
Bingo,
Brass Monkey is a beautifully designed, ELEGANT model. However, the fuselage thumbnail in MAN has inconsistencies (omissions) that can be corrected. I built as drawn to see if the errors would cause problems, and they don't, but aesthetically fixing the mistakes is worth a small amount of effort. And within the rules.

I enlarged to plan at the copy store and taped the sections together. FIRST, draw a reference line from the prop wire through rubber anchor to the tail of the fuselage so the copies can be perfectly aligned. The longerons seem to be full length sticks, 36 inches long. 

Errors: First, the angled trusses between longerons in the side view should ALSO be shown as reversing, when bulding the second side.   Look at some other plans and you will see this marked with hatched lines in larger scale plans. To correct on the Brass Monkey, simply draw lines from the intersection of the trusses and the longerons, at 90 degrees to the centerline, and connect each to the opposite longeron. These points show where the trusses intersect the longerons of the second side frame. Adding scrap pieces under second set of trusses will keep the trusses aligned with the second pair of longerons.

How to add the cross pieces when the two sies are dry:  Cut two rectangular forms from 1/16 sheet that are longer than the distance between the longerons on the side view. Temporarily glue them at the front and rear where the width is the same. Keep them square and let them dry. Now you can handle the fuselage and begin installing the angled cross pieces in the area between the spacers so they intersect where the vertical trusses meet the longerons. Work in pairs top and bottom. After these have dried, pull the tail together and glue the end so the fuse is straight and true, and then repeat with the nose. Remarkably simple.

If you simply follow the plan as drawn, some trusses will terminate in the empty spaces along a longeron. This is OK because the fuselage does not carry any stresses---they are borne by the motor pod.

Second problem, the angled trusses shown on the top view become too long without enough width between the longerons to be very functional at the tail. I used strong 3/32 x 3/32 for the longerons and 1/16 x 3/32 medium balsa for the trusses. Use thinned white glue and double glue (Titebond 2  and 3 turn orange in sunlight). Trusses were angled as drawn until the width became too tight on the top view and I substituted conventional trusses set at 90 degrees for the last 12 intersections.

In addition, the motor tube does not clearly specify a round or square cross section; I made mine square because it was the easiest to support near the aluminum cross tube to build-in side and down thrust. After building the motor tube you will have to improvise supports underneath to keep the rear of the motor tube from moving around, and to set 2 degrees of down and side thrust without adding friction to the prop shaft. This is a good starting place and smaller trimming adjustments can be made between the motor tube and the nose block in the field.

Don't be scared off. Warren truss fuselages are the EASIEST, LIGHTEST structures to build because small inaccuracies in the length of the trusses will not distort the longerons; essentially the trusses are self-adjusting as you install them if the longerons are well supported by pins set outside. And your trusses do not have to be as accurate as with 90 degree installations of trusses between the longerons. This fuselage is REMARKABLY stiff and strong and does not deal with the torque and compression of the rubber.  VERY smart design that eliminates the complaints aired here about misaligned fuselages. The elegant rudder shape is also strong.

This is as far as I have gotten; a heavy work load (job) prevents working on the prop, wing and stabilizer. 

Hard to explain in words .... but it is really a SIMPLE fuselage to build.

Joe     


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on July 11, 2014, 04:19:19 PM
Well, I'm ready and shall be trimming on Sunday at Luffenham.
However, somewhere between my 58g yesterday and finishing today (pylon, hooks, peg, snuffer tube, NOSE BALLAST, etc I now have almost a 75g model! I couldn't believe it. But it has been a very interesting process and I intend to carry on in F1G, with wooden models. To save weight, I shall use two blades ( I love these plans that show a very optimistic piece of lead as counterbalance, sometimes referred to as a 'blob'! Mine is not a blob) and take 6 inches off the back end

wing  20g
fuse and tail  30g
prop   16g

total  66g

plus about 8g noseweight


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: PeeTee on July 11, 2014, 05:03:02 PM
Bill

Have you bent the counterbalance weight wire back by about 10-15 degrees in a gentle curve? Also it's normal to bend the wire clockwise by a few degrees - this all helps the balance when the prop is rotating. I apologise if you know this already, it's just that in the photo, the wire looks dead straight ::)

Happy trimming, shame Sunday looks as though it will be a bit breezy.

Peter
ps the model looks very nice even though I have an aversion to diamond fuselages.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on July 11, 2014, 05:12:50 PM
Peter, no I have yet to bend it back. I hadn't heard of the clockwise bend - why does that work? In fact why does the rearward bend work?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Bingo Fuel on July 11, 2014, 08:19:49 PM
Hi all,
   Joe,  thanks so much for the description of building the Brass Monkey fuselage.  I will certainly build it to your instructions.  Yes I also believe it to be very elegant and the photo of it in the old MAN certainly got my attention.  I really like the high aspect ratio wing and the polyhedral.  I like the false rib idea and the spar arrangement. Most of all I love the idea of the motor tube that takes the strain and can save the fuselage if it (motor) lets go.  Also like the two blade prop.  I have taped my blown up plan together and started a good redraw.  I shall take to the idea of straight cross members in the far rear fuselage  Thanks again so much.
   Bill, your BK  looks very good.  The idea of black tissue in spots is a great idea in being able to spot it in flight.  Good luck with tests.  Regards, Bingo


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: PeeTee on July 12, 2014, 02:51:16 AM
Bill

It's all to do with dynamic balancing. I do it because those who know better than I advised it and it certainly smooths the motor run. However if you want a detailed and erudite explanation, Martyn Pressnell wrote an article on it in SAM 35 Yearbook 11. It's a bit long for me to precis and contains maths ::) Suffice to say that I get to a reasonably smooth outcome by trial and error.

Peter


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: DaddyO on July 12, 2014, 03:20:44 AM
The idea I believe Bill is to get the weight balancing the prop whilst rotating (Centrifugal force and old those other pesky forces come into play)  ::)

Model looks great, and I'm glad it's not just me that finds that the final fettleing adds more can a couple of grammes. I'm tempted to try one of these old coupes to join in the fun (and have even chosen which one), but currently fiddling with 32nd sq. on a pistachio.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: lincoln on July 12, 2014, 03:47:51 AM
Here are a bunch of messy sketches of coupe d'hivers (is that the correct plural?) including lots of technical specs/
http://www.prop.at/prop_magazin1961-285-oemv-modellsport-04-1961-pdf.pdf

Notice that this includes Ailbass, qualifying it for this postal. However the airfoil shown here is rather at odds with more detailed plans of Ailbass that I've seen!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on July 12, 2014, 03:59:42 AM
Thanks both. I would be interested historically why single blades became popular? They must be heavier, more tricky to balance. Or was it about speed of construction - you read about people churning lightweights out in a few days to lose them at the weekend.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: julio on July 12, 2014, 10:52:21 AM
Bill

It's all to do with dynamic balancing. I do it because those who know better than I advised it and it certainly smooths the motor run. However if you want a detailed and erudite explanation, Martyn Pressnell wrote an article on it in SAM 35 Yearbook 11. It's a bit long for me to precis and contains maths ::) Suffice to say that I get to a reasonably smooth outcome by trial and error.

Peter

The article is available at the Builders' Plan Gallery as "Single Blade Propellers".

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/categories.php?cat_id=59

Nice models here. A joy to follow your builds.

Regards
Julio



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: lincoln on July 12, 2014, 02:36:55 PM
What does one do if, as with the NEWG Moth, the airfoil is given as similar to (insert unfindable airfoil name here)? In the case of the Newg Moth, as mentioned before, G103. In this case, as it happens, if one assumes a single digit typo, there are a number of suitable and plausible Goettingen airfoils. But they're not all that similar to each other. Ok to pick one?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on July 12, 2014, 06:07:08 PM
lincoln:

It's okay to pick an airfoil you can find data on.  

Lots of these little 3-views have missing details or there may be conflicting details on different drawings of the same model.   Just do what you would have done back in the '60s and improvise with the materials and technology of the day.   If there are two differing dimensions or details, pick one that works for you.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: lincoln on July 13, 2014, 03:02:38 AM
Just ran across this when I should have been doing something else. Lots of CdH designs. Note that if you download the images, most are pretty sharp.
https://sites.google.com/site/planotecafaa/goma/f1g---p-30

Not sure where some were published, tho.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 13, 2014, 03:25:43 AM
Lincoln
Could you please stop trying to distract us from the task at hand   :o ;D just pick one and Start! ;D
regards Dave


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: lincoln on July 13, 2014, 03:32:30 AM
I've got a lot of other stuff I ought to do first. And at least a tenth as much time as I need to do it, since I live in the Northern Hemisphere. I thought I was the one who was distracted!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 13, 2014, 03:39:11 AM
 ;D


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on July 13, 2014, 09:02:37 AM
Nice find lincoln!

The French model Loque Bis was definitely published in the 1960s and has appeared here as a small three-view.  So now we have a source for a real plan of it.  Looks quite simple too.  :)    


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on July 15, 2014, 08:05:30 PM
My thanks to Bingo for bringing this Cd'H to my attention.  The Moustique by Don Lindley from the November, 1964 Model Airplane News is about as wild as they come.  I can supply a much higher resolution plan via e-mail.  PM me if you're interested.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on July 16, 2014, 05:32:06 PM
This is Bill Vanderbeek's "My Coupe" from the 1960's.Was in his club news letter in Dec.1969.My friend and I will be building a couple of them.Shouldn't take to long,I love that it has a two bladed prop.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on July 16, 2014, 05:37:30 PM
Not sure about the rear fuse structure - rather long unsupported gaps! The rest looks very promising.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on July 16, 2014, 08:50:28 PM
On the plans they are at a 30 deg. angle.I drew the plans for Bill when I was in the 10th grade.I think you can still get them from NFFS.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Pit on July 17, 2014, 01:57:10 PM
Re. "My Coupe":  Could it be that the fuselage is sheeted all the way back to the end (top, maybe bottom)?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on July 17, 2014, 08:26:34 PM
Pit, no the fusealge is built up from a couple inches behind the pylon all the way to the rudder.I have the plans and as I said before I even drew them way back in 1969, I was 16 then.It was one of the NFFS's models of the year in 1970.The 3 view was for his club news letter so it didn't have much detail.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Bingo Fuel on July 17, 2014, 09:41:27 PM
Re "My Coupe"
  I would say it would be sheet full length top and bottom.  With the wide spacing of the diagonals I should think it might be a bit mushy. Not my cup of tea.  Bingo


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on July 17, 2014, 10:30:54 PM
Sorry Bingo but you are wrong.I have the plans 


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Pit on July 18, 2014, 08:24:43 AM
I've been looking over the hi-res photo of the Moustique (thanks Mark!), and am fairly convinced that this is the one I'll attempt.  It's different enough to satisfy my penchant for the unusual and doesn't appear to be that difficult.  The only big question is, are the side longerons behind the "pylon" trussed like the spine or the areas sheeted?  I suppose that the longerons are supported by formers.

"My Coupe" also looks quite straightforward and would probably be a better choice for me as a raw beginner with "coupes" (but I like challenges).


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on July 18, 2014, 09:22:04 AM
The only big question is, are the side longerons behind the "pylon" trussed like the spine or the areas sheeted?  I suppose that the longerons are supported by formers.

Pete,
I'm going to guess there are no trusses or formers(!) in the rear fuselage.
On page 43 of the article: "The paper is unsupported from aft of the wing platform to the stab mount."   He went to this extreme to keep the pitch/yaw moments of inertia low.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Pit on July 18, 2014, 11:05:22 AM
Thanks again, Mark.  I'll add simple 1/16th x 3/32nd "X" pieces along the length to keep the longerons from bowing in from tissue shrinkage.

Pete


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on July 19, 2014, 11:24:25 AM
I don't have a propeller yet...  but most of the Guy Cognet model is now built


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: sparkle on July 19, 2014, 05:06:31 PM
 ;D Nice colour scheme! Looks like it will fly well!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on July 19, 2014, 07:43:15 PM
Great looking model Tim!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: lincoln on July 20, 2014, 12:48:33 AM
That's an exceptionally attractive model. Is that computer printed tissue or are you just a wizard at cutting the stuff?

I'm guessing you worked that up from the little sketch in Aeromodeller Annual? What year?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Graiskye on July 20, 2014, 01:22:55 AM
That's an exceptionally attractive model. Is that computer printed tissue or are you just a wizard at cutting the stuff?

I'm guessing you worked that up from the little sketch in Aeromodeller Annual? What year?
Its cut tissue Lincoln, Im willing to bet. You see the sheet of blue sitting on the desk?
Thats how it is usually done on the competitive models as far as I understand, do not have the comp experience but I have cut tissue letters etc..
I am curious if the white is just bond paper or maybe some thin vinyl. I  think maybe its a combinatiopn of several techniques, but some of it is for sure cut tissue.
 It looks super awesome.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 20, 2014, 01:54:28 AM
It looks super awesome.
Sure does Tim, I like the Aussie/French flag theme.
I'm at about the same stage, just a few details to go and waiting for my Badge Lite timer to arrive for the D/T. I've put my scales away 'cause I don't want to know!.
Dave


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: sparkle on July 20, 2014, 03:25:48 AM
 ;D Very fancy looking prop and a large tailplane. should be very stable. interesting colours, should be easy to identify. 


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on July 21, 2014, 06:11:44 AM
Hi Graiskye, Lincoln et al
Very old school tissue cutting, I'm afraid. The white lettering is cut through a sandwich of several layers taped to the back of a printed font. Much easier to pick a font that you like than try to match a scale font I'd have to say. The white over black is about 4 or 5 layers thick. Most are just single layer, all Esaki, thin white glue adhesive round the edges - then layers doped on 50/50 dope/acetone. Wing is 22g and tailplane about 6g. The boom and fuse pod as is comes out at 24g - but there's no DT, tail mount, noseblock or prop hardware etc yet.
Dave, yours is looking good as usual - is the Alibass a contender also? As you said: we just need to pick a weekend to go to Lawrie's farm and reel off some straight maxes... HA HA HA ;D   I think that's the bit where it gets difficult...
Tho soldering a prop thingy together will also take some attention. (Wish mine turns out like SOCs props)
thanks for the comments
cheers
Tim


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on July 26, 2014, 11:15:20 PM
Dwarf Dip III is up to the covering stage.
The weather forecast for the next week is pretty crummy so it should be ready to go by the time some flyable weather arrives.

Marc, I'd like to use a tip up wing DT (actually a tip up pylon due to the wing seating).
A tip up tail is sometimes marginal on our field.
Would that be acceptable ?

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: lincoln on July 27, 2014, 12:50:37 AM
That's an interesting and attractive set of bones. Is there a guide someplace explaining how it's possible to make a structure with all those tricky diagonals without going completely insane?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 27, 2014, 01:33:44 AM
Nice job Sean, your flying surfaces look great!
Well I'm just waiting for the weather and opportunity now, Drobek is done, took awhile to get the accessories organised though. The Badge Lite timer for the D/T arrived and is connected and I finished off the prop.
 I did some testing with the different batches of rubber that I have (all only Tan Super Sport) and found it was well down on the specs others obtain. The best I could get was 22 inch/ounces @ 450 turns with 10 strands of 1/8th, so that will have to do. I built a torque meter and a blast tube to use. These little motors really go off with a bang, I still cant find a "T" hook that went flying in my shed after an explosion!
Now to hunt through my books to find a Scale 3 view of something that catches my eye for my next project!
Dave


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: sparkle on July 27, 2014, 04:25:02 AM
 ;D Hi Dave! Looks finished!
 Just waiting for some Queensland calm weather, which we have in shed loads at the moment!
 ( Sadly I'm otherwise engaged as you know! )
  Today you could have flown all day, even with a coupe and not walked far!
  If you are looking for help with Japanese 3 view let me know! ps. looking forward to the build!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 27, 2014, 04:46:11 AM
  Hi John,
Just got a few moments of "relative" calm before dark tonight and thought I would see what would happen. Test glide looked OK so I put on a hundred turns and it just floated around, the video shows the next 3 flights of 150,175 and 200 turns. There was a bit of turbulence as can be seen in the last flight and as it was starting to use up my small field I decided that was enough.  I've made no changes to anything, it's just as built though I can imagine having to do some mods when I crank in some more turns. The lower prop blade appears not to fold correctly so I thought I would put on a closing band. however the pivot had a tight spot in it and once freed up should be OK. http://youtu.be/6dnR2SXCRsk?list=UUGnbDn4ftkXW2v5C3_wvXrQ
 
P.S. I'm actually looking at a British 3-view  :o
regards Dave


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on July 27, 2014, 05:09:43 AM
Dave
At 42 seconds there is the unmistakable sound of model entering tree. You are definitely dicing there!
I hope that winding hook is welded in! Interested that you are using 10 x 1/8". I made up 12 strands because most of the British 60s designs seemed to go for 6 x 1/4. But it was rather a beast to wind
Bill


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 27, 2014, 05:23:03 AM
Bill
When I did my rubber testing It seemed I could get more turns with not much less torque with 10 strands rather than 12. It's probably my rubber but when I get the chance to fly it with a bit more space I will try a few different combo's.
Dave


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: sparkle on July 27, 2014, 06:21:35 AM
 ;D video looking lovely with close to zero turns. Anything  English in particular?, I may have something.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 27, 2014, 07:01:36 AM
Relax John, I'll let you know when I do.  ;D


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on July 27, 2014, 02:41:22 PM
Marc, I'd like to use a tip up wing DT (actually a tip up pylon due to the wing seating).
A tip up tail is sometimes marginal on our field.
Would that be acceptable ?

Sean
Sean,
I'd prefer you keep it as original as possible but if wing DTs were in use in the '60s and that's the way you would have built it back then, I will allow it.  And just because I'm curious, do you really have much trouble with thermals in the Winter there?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: 151-30 on July 27, 2014, 04:27:14 PM
now Almost Ready To Fly.....replica of Yves Sargentini,  French champion 1968

just needs trim of spring load for prop stop.

30 years old 6 strands 1/4 orange Pirreli is longer than 10 years old 12 strands 1/8 TAN II (out of the box with no breaking in....) so first: motors breaking in, 2 or 3 rear peg location and then test fly......or build an other nose with Guy Cognet 2 prop stop system (published in 1972 but in use before) for streched motors to use different sorts of motors (6 strands or equivalent). 
 
 


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: faif2d on July 27, 2014, 05:25:16 PM
I was lucky to have Charlie Sotich as a mentor back in the day.  He used construction like in the Dwarf Dip tail in a number of other designs.  I built 2 Draw Dips which were A2 gliders with Parabolic shaped wing leading edges and he used this structure.  It was actually easy to build as he used a simplex airfoil which has the property of staying the same as you trim the trailing edge of each stick.  It was very complicated looking but actually went together very easily.  The only one that was easier was the one by Fast Richard where he used straight sticks from the highpoint of the wing to the TE with a full depth spar at the high point and the back of the multi spar rib.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 28, 2014, 06:19:39 AM
Very neat job 151-30, looks very advanced for its time, good luck with the testing.

 Could the longer Pirelli motor be because it is 6mm and not 1/4", I would have thought Pirelli would come in metric sizes ?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: PeeTee on July 28, 2014, 07:38:26 AM
Quote
but if wing DTs were in use in the '60s

Laurie Barr's Scram, lightweight rubber design of 1949/50 used a pop up wing DT as described in the contemporary MA article. Also, for the record, I'm told by someone competing at the time that the Autoknips clockwork timer was available from the mid 50s, followed shortly thereafter by a US design.

Peter


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: lincoln on July 28, 2014, 06:15:15 PM
Haven't seen this one posted anyplace. Jossien's Basplum from Zaic's 1959-1961 Yearbook.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: lincoln on July 28, 2014, 11:47:12 PM
Xaxap 2
Anyone know about this one? I don't recall where I found it! Seems like it MIGHT be from the 1960's.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on July 30, 2014, 03:38:42 AM
Some replies to recent posts.

Dave

22 oz.in. and 450 turns looks OK for 10 stands, especially if it was cold in the shed.
I've been using some old (but OK)  batches of Tan I for years and have only recently graduated to Super Sport.
When I first tried SS (first thing on a chilly morning out on the field) I was underwhelmed, but those who know said it was a good batch I had. Later I found it heaps better when the temp was closer to 20C
I reckon, with practise, you will get more turns and a little more torque.


Lincoln

There are some pics in post #71 which indicate construction steps.
I shaped all the ribs in a stack and notched them for the spars, removed half, then carefully cut the remainder in two.
I used a piece of packing a couple of bays long to support the half ribs at the centre joint until the glue jelled
The ends are chamfered to suit as the work proceeds.
The spar notches are opened up a tad with little sanding sticks after all the ribs are assembled.


faif2d

Perhaps you can tell us something about Charlie Sotich's D..... Dip names ?
Is there some quirky joke behind them ?
Is there a collection of the entire family ?

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 30, 2014, 04:49:10 AM
Thanks for your input Sean, yes it was certainly cold that night. What do you suggest a heated blast tube  ;D
 I guess by practise you mean how much stretch and when to come in, what would be a safeish percentage from breaking turns. strange thing all my motors broke in the middle.
Dave


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: faif2d on July 30, 2014, 11:43:14 AM
Yes there was a reason for the DIP names and I know he told me what it was but that was in about 1969 and I know longer remember what that was.  The last time I saw him was in 1972 or 3 although we did exchange Christmas cards for a number of years. I do remember that he had a design in the Ziac year books of a coupe I think that was attributed to a Mr. J Daniels. ( the whiskey) I am not aware of any listing of the family of names but it would be interesting as he was quite prolific back in the 60's and 70's.  He never flew power models and I remember at a NATS in Willow Grove while sitting on the tail gate of his car a power model looped into the concrete about 30 ft away, he never even twitched when the Doppler effect told me that it was going to crash and not to far away at that.  His only comment was something like "note how fast the motor stops at impact" He was a very nice man and I miss him.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on July 31, 2014, 03:35:27 AM
faif2d and others

I just googled Charlie Sotich to see what I could find.
I rediscovered that he was better known for his minature kites
and sadly that he died on the 23rd of March this year, just as I'd begun Dwarf Dip III.
I'll have to get to know his kites. People collect them so there are plenty of images.

The 64/65 Zaic Year Book has a special section on C d'hiver.
The first article is Charlie Sotich's piece from Model Aviation describing his Dwarf Dip II design.
A few pages over we find The Spirit attributed to Jack Daniels.
This one has sheetbalsa wings and single blade prop, but a complex fuselage design.
I'll scan it later and post it here.

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Hepcat on July 31, 2014, 10:46:06 AM
relating to Replies #179 and #193.

Dave and Sean,
I have been away from active flying for several years and am hesitant to post in case old age has got my memory but it might prod some others into giving their figures.

My calculations say that 10g of 1/8th in 12 strands will take 450 max turns, give 30 in.oz max torque and a 52 seconds motor run.  These figures agree with what my memory says I achieved in practice.

The same calculations on a 10 strand motor give me 600 max turns, 22 in.oz max torque and a 78 seconds motor run. With the change of 12 to 10 strands these figures look sensible to me but I haven't had any recent Super Sport to try.  However I am surprised that it could give 22 in.oz at 450 turns.  By my figures that is only about three quarters of full turns and most rubber will increase torque four or five times as the last 25 percent of turns are put on.  Is it possible that something has shifted on the torque meter?  I have made quite a few and if I can help with the torque wire calculations I should be pleased to do so.

John


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on August 01, 2014, 01:42:32 AM
John
Thank you for your reply, this is the same problem I have encountered before.
I did the same test with 10 strands twice and they both broke at around 480 turns, I was not of course able to read the torque at breaking point but the previous readings had been 22 in/oz at 450 turns. The torque meter was calculated using the formula at this web site http://www.modelflight.com/torque.html

I also have a Gizmo Geeza torque meter which I checked against my home made one and at 20 in/oz it is within the thickness of the needle on the dial. I was very surprised that it compared so favourable. The counters on both winders were also checked. I have a batch of modern 1/4 that I've not tried yet and will have a go over the weekend however it is still forecast to be in the low teens (C) so I may try to move my testing indoors, though I still have to fly out doors!

One other thing is regarding break in, I used to wind my motor to about half turns a couple of times and call that it, with these motors I used a method of stretching to twice length for a few minutes then after resting  stretching again to 4 times the length for 4 minutes.
Any advice would be appreciated
regards Dave


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Hepcat on August 01, 2014, 10:32:51 AM
Dave,
I don't want to cause any offence by doubting your word but are you sure that the motor you broke at about 480 turns was 10 strands?  From what I read the latest Super Sport takes a few more turns to reach max torque than the SS I was using a few years back and I think that the 22 in.oz at 450 turns and the break at 480 turns is just what one would expect from a 12 strand motor.

As far as 'breaking in' was concerned; for several years I stretched about 8 times free length for several minutes but concluded eventually that it was not giving any benefit.  Breaking in gives the rubber a small permanent stretch which allows a very few extra turns but it does not increase the energy content.  I think most of us now wind with a torque meter and 'feel' - the feel for the hardness when the rubber is due to break.  On the first comp flight with the new motor I would get the reading right up on the torque meter but not venture into the 'hard feel' region.  Second flight the motor would be 'broken in' if you want to call it that and would take those few extra turns but with no more torque.  So two good runs, one with top torque and another with top turns and usually after a week's rest two more excellent competition winds to follow.
John


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: D/T on August 01, 2014, 11:12:30 AM
John
I think recent Tan SS may have different physical characteristics, (possibly thicker?), although I have not checked. In the last tests I did, last month, on 10g 12 strand motors, Oct 2012 broke at 428 and May 2014 broke at 420 turns. My torque meter uses arbitrary markings for relative comparisons, but torque was at least 10% higher than typical at max turns.

D/T


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on August 17, 2014, 04:06:26 AM
Well Tim and I got a chance to fly our Coupes this morning, rather than make the long trip to our friends property at Murray Bridge we opted out for Victoria Park where the Adelaide Formula One G.P.s were held and in use for the present day Clipsal Super Car races. It's used by the ARF R/C flyers so our homemade, uncontrollable rubber powered models created some interest.
   The weather wasn't too bad with a few gusts now and then, Tims  Guy Cognet flew easily straight off the board getting good height on not many turns so he called for a timed flight, not sure how many turns but touched down at 2 mins 18.
   I had fitted a 6 strand 1/4 motor in the Dobrek and decided not to use a torque meter and just wind to feel. It struggled on the initial climb but seemed to find some  good air and climbed away into obvious lift, the glide was good in nice circles but it didn't seem to be coming down. Tim lost sight of it at 5mins 11 secs and I followed underneath waiting for the 2min D/T to go off, as it started to leave the park it dropped out of the lift to land in the top of a large tree. I must had snagged the D/T line as I launched! Its a long way up und even if it blows loose it will only fall deeper into the tree. I went back about 3 hours later and it was still firmly wedged and Tim rang awhile back saying he had driven past and it had not moved so I guess that's my Winter Cup over Tim has some more flying to do as the wind sprang up preventing more flying and is now fitting a D/T , one that works I hope Tim!
  As I was in the shed checking the photos on my computer I felt something knock against my chair, I got quite a shock to see quite a large KOALA looking up at me, now we do very rarely see them around here but this was quite a shock. After climbing onto a shelf and destroying my Dornier 217 I was in the midst of repairing I managed to shoo him out. So I guess that's 2 models Im out today !


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on August 17, 2014, 04:14:33 AM
  Should have added some comments on the photos, namely Tim holding the prop in the time honoured way! and we hoped those Rainbow Lorikeets would  knock the model down  there were about 8 of them!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: PeeTee on August 17, 2014, 05:18:24 AM
Dave

Shame about the model(s) but don't give up hope on the Dobrek as sometimes the wind does strange things, and apparently irretrievable models find their way to the ground. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Peter


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on August 17, 2014, 10:19:30 AM
Dave,
Sorry to see the loss of your Drobek.  Hope the wind gets it down shortly.  I hope you still have the contest legal Ailbass so you're still able to compete if necessary. 
Thanks for the photos and the update.

 


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on August 17, 2014, 04:40:04 PM
Good effort Dave-I'm still to put any times in-I haven't had an opportunity to fly since the weekend of 31May/1 June due to the weather-and our FF site being so water logged we can't get vehicles in. The wettest winter I can recall since living in Wellington.

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: lincoln on August 17, 2014, 11:34:49 PM
That does look like a real airplane-eating tree. Has anyone ever tried blowing a model out of a tree with a leaf blower? (Ok, I don't know if they're common where you are.) Seems like it might be suitable here because it might get the model to go up and sideways.

Your model looks very nice and it would be sad if it stays in a tree. Have you considered hiring someone who takes down trees for a living? Not to cut it but to be able to climb. Our club has a list of guys who will retrieve planes from trees. Generally it works out very well. Not sure about liability issues! Or maybe you know someone young, athletic, and monkey like? If you have a time machine and a jet plane, you are welcome to ask my former self for help. ;-) See the attached picture, taken from the awards ceremony of a contest, of me retrieving a model from a tree. And yes, one of the trophies was awarded to me.

These days I usually settle for lobbing a dowel set up as an arrow with a bowfishing setup, and either using the string to tug a stronger line up, or just pull with the line. Usually works but is tedious. I have to make the shots count, because the bow has a heavy pull and I'll be sore if I take too many. I have seen a rig made from an old fire extinguisher acting as a pneumatic gun to accomplish something similar. Also, slingshots with spinning reels meant for fishing. Fortunately, it doesn't happen as much to me as it used to.

Don't get me started about the day, many years ago, when a friend of mine wanted his swim trunks to dry faster and hoisted them up a 40 foot mast without setting up a downhaul to retrieve them! Many hours on the retrieve, though the lash up job we used makes a good memory now.



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on August 18, 2014, 04:12:33 AM
  Thanks Fellas,
                    Mark,   Ailbass is still OK so I should be able to at least get in 5 short flights.
                 
 Chris that sounds very wet, do you have an alternate site.

Lincoln, Yes leaf blowers are used even down here but I think you would need a supercharged one, its pretty high. As far as getting help from a tree cutter or such the model is not worth much the only thing of value is a $22 timer! That's a great picture of you in the tree.

I did have a thought that a Quad copter with a grappling hook might work  ;D
 
Dropped by "the Tree" after work tonight and it was still in the same place although the wind had changed direction and it had flipped over so if it falls it will land in a lower branch that I might be able to reach with a pole.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on August 18, 2014, 04:40:12 AM
Send up the koala!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on August 18, 2014, 07:11:57 AM
Well, I had my motors all tied and pre-stretched... getting my model prepped and ready.  

Dave casually says: "I'll put in a couple of flights just to get some times to put down".
Next thing I'm squinting into the distance at 5 minutes plus trying to see the Drobek for the trees.
Classic.

This location by the way was the central venue for flyers like Burford and Felstead in Adelaide who would ride their bikes to the city parklands to fly their 'rubber jobs' back in the day (1940's).

In the photo it's hard to work out the distances - but there's a first line of trees where my 2 min flight landed - and then a big expanse beyond where the race track pits area and grandstands are put up once a year - across another oval to a boundary road where the line of trees is that caught Dave's Drobek at 5mins...

I went through about lunchtime - and yep - it's moved a bit - dropped it's tail - but not much lower than it was before.

Pics are from day 1 and show the curious birds in attendance.

cheers
Tim



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on August 18, 2014, 03:54:59 PM
  Thanks Fellas,
                    Mark,   Ailbass is still OK so I should be able to at least get in 5 short flights.
                 
 Chris that sounds very wet, do you have an alternate site.


In short-no! [well not within a reasonable driving distance of Wellington]

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: sparkle on August 18, 2014, 04:41:08 PM
 Hi Dave, what a mad story and a sorry end to a couple of models. If its still in the tree when I get there I will climb the tree and get it down. Done that before!
   Maybe we could start a movie called return of the Killer Koalas!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: lincoln on August 18, 2014, 10:06:53 PM
Once again, I've overdone it:

I suspect that a leaf blower is still quite powerful at 50 feet or so. Especially commercial ones. Damp leaves require an awful lot of wind to dislodge them from grass. I think your labor is worth far more than the timer.
  Thanks Fellas,
                    Mark,   Ailbass is still OK so I should be able to at least get in 5 short flights.
                 
 Chris that sounds very wet, do you have an alternate site.

Lincoln, Yes leaf blowers are used even down here but I think you would need a supercharged one, its pretty high. As far as getting help from a tree cutter or such the model is not worth much the only thing of value is a $22 timer! That's a great picture of you in the tree.

I did have a thought that a Quad copter with a grappling hook might work  ;D
 
Dropped by "the Tree" after work tonight and it was still in the same place although the wind had changed direction and it had flipped over so if it falls it will land in a lower branch that I might be able to reach with a pole.

I think one of the more powerful gasoline powered types might do the job just fine. We have an electric one that is not terribly powerful, but at 20 paces it's still very noticeable, and perhaps enough to dislodge a coupe. If I was using a gas one, I'd start with low throttle just to make sure that I didn't tear the model apart. And you could better your odds by putting it on a pole or something if necessary. Indoors, I once knocked a pennyplane out of a 35 or 40 foot ceiling using a homemade air cannon, and pretty much destroyed a stuck EZB of mine at closer range. I think if you made one a bit larger and more powerful, it would be good enough to toss your coupe around a bit and maybe even dislodge it. It also blows nifty smoke rings if you can get some smoke inside it. Might be good for aiming.

The one I made was similar to this one:
www.abrowndesign.com/Air%20Vortex%20Cannon.pdf

Imagine what a 55 gallon drum made into one of these would do. Especially if activated with a large firecracker or maybe even fuel-vapor like a potato cannon:
 ( http://www.aaroncake.net/spuds/index.asp )
Come to think of it, the small one would probably be pretty potent that way too. Or maybe even just the potato cannon itself, firing spudless. The ones I've heard are not terribly loud but they give amazing range for a vegetable. Hmmm.... maybe I'll have to make one.

 


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on August 19, 2014, 04:03:39 AM
 Thanks for your suggestions but it seems a bit adventurous for me, I'm not good at judging heights but I did the thing with my arm at 45 degrees and paced in to the bottom of the tree and it looks like about 65 - 70 feet.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on August 19, 2014, 07:16:23 AM
Day 3

 :(

I can't believe I'm saying this....   but we need some wind.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on August 19, 2014, 07:25:19 AM
Yeah I was thinking the same thing tonight, see its flipped over, and is still moving around, glad I fitted those bands to close the prop or it would be really stuck. You got that D/T fitted yet!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: lincoln on August 19, 2014, 01:58:09 PM
Thanks for your suggestions but it seems a bit adventurous for me, I'm not good at judging heights but I did the thing with my arm at 45 degrees and paced in to the bottom of the tree and it looks like about 65 - 70 feet.

I was mostly just brainstorming*, but if you can provide the transportation, I'll be glad to help you. ;-) 


*It's just necessary to sift the one or two good ideas out of all the bad ones.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on August 20, 2014, 03:46:03 AM
  I appreciate the suggestions and don't worry I've not given up, I'll make a concerted effort when I have time. I just need every bit of stick and tubing I can find and several rolls of tape  ;D  I do have a plan  ;D  I'm just hoping it will come down a bit first.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: sparkle on August 20, 2014, 04:27:46 AM
 ;D I couldn't help noticing that the wings are attached by rubber bands. Unless your sun is very different to ours, I'M GUESSING THAT IT WON'T TAKE LONG for the wings to separate from the fuselage. Hopefully some ferret kid doesn't come along and find the bits on the ground. 


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on August 20, 2014, 05:18:12 AM
  SUN.  What Sun  :o


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on August 20, 2014, 08:49:32 AM
Dave,
I have a very short (30") fishing rod and reel sold as a toy in pet shops for tossing a toy mouse in the house for the cats to chase.  It's their favorite toy in the house.  Anyway, I once took the mouse off the line and tied on a 1 or 2 oz fishing weight and used it to throw a line very high into a tree (in a woods as well) to retrieve a rubber model.  Worked very well though I did get the line caught and had to break it a couple of times.  I used the line thrown over a branch to pull up a heavier Nylon rope that was used to pull/shake the branch on which the model was caught.  Just another idea....you really need a short pole to cast the line vertically.
Best of luck.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on August 21, 2014, 12:33:45 AM
Good news (I think) Dave - looks like Drobek dropped a bit in the overnight breeze.
(the park is on my way to work so I've had a chance to keep an eye on it)

I was there this morning and had my indoor pole in the car.
 So when I saw that it was lower I took the pole out - which is 8m long extended - and the model was still a metre or two out of reach.

Here's some pics

Also I was trying to think up an excuse while I was there - in case I was asked - as to why I was wondering around the park at 8am with a 8metre stick 

-  a recreational pole vaulter maybe? 
- it's a jousting stick and I'm just looking for where my horse has gone?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Rich Moore on August 21, 2014, 04:48:40 AM
It's your walking stick and you are out for a 'long' walk?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on August 21, 2014, 06:44:49 AM
        GOT IT!  ;D  I've just got back from getting Drobek down and seen your post Tim.
 I went there straight from work  at about 4.30 pm and saw it had dropped so I went home to get my poles and indoor stick, traffic was a real pain at that time of night.
       It was a bit higher than the 10 meters though, My pole is only 7 metres and I had at least 8 mtrs of poles taped to it and just got above enough to fling it out into another lot of branches that I could then reach with my Indoor pole.
       Got a bit of damage but nothing serious, half a dozen tissue tears and a broken longeron plus the sub fin had fallen off and I didn't notice, easier to make another than fight the traffic again.
      The D/T line had slipped over the drum and was never going to go off so a bit more care next time.
       Thanks Tim for checking each day and to all the others for their suggestions especially Lincoln for his many ideas.
       I think the next 4 flights will be short ones..............................though that 5 minutes was a beauty!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: PeeTee on August 21, 2014, 06:54:30 AM
Well done Dave! All's well that ends well, and the damage only looks like a minor flesh wound (a la Monty Python)  ::)


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Maxout on August 21, 2014, 07:10:40 AM
So when I saw that it was lower I took the pole out - which is 8m long extended

For what it's worth, at this past weekend's indoor contest I had the priviledge of using Kang Lee's steering pole, which is somewhere around 11-12 m. It's not super light, but is quite reasonable and very stiff for a conventional telescoping pole. He paid about $150 US for it while in Japan. Pretty good price if you ask me, and for a very long pole.


And congrats to Dave on getting the plane back! Can you come retrieve my E36 next? ::)


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on August 21, 2014, 08:11:47 AM
Great result Dave - under the pressure of some group anticipation too...

I won't have to use the 'long walk' excuse now either - thanks Rich I'll save it up for another time.
Because there might be another time.

OK Dave, let's reset, re-boot, and try again.
Back to the 60's - my favourite holiday destination.

cheers
Tim


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Hepcat on August 21, 2014, 04:10:25 PM
Dave,
The star posting of the month. I am so pleased for you.
John


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: sparkle on August 21, 2014, 04:23:04 PM
 ;D Good work Dave!  Good to get it down before the weekend and have someone beat you to it. Makes for an interesting story. I guess the motto is don't give up!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on August 22, 2014, 03:28:34 AM
Thanks for your support fellas, all fixed and ready to go! Oh and that wind you ordered Tim, its here!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on August 24, 2014, 07:32:47 AM
Sunday morning about 7:30am Dave & I got back to the parklands to do some more flights.
The weather was good - no booming thermals - but calm air.
I had some good winds with some 7/99 rubber  - but this blew eventually and then I was using a 2012 batch.
Dave's Drobek was back - some repairs, of course, but seemed to be going good.
Best of luck to all you guys who have your flights ahead. And thanks to Mark too for organising a fun comp idea.
Now we can sit back and watch  8)
cheers
Tim


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: sparkle on August 25, 2014, 03:26:02 AM
 ;D It's good that you've been able to get some flyable weather in Winter. And having a decent park close to home is a bonus!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on August 26, 2014, 01:20:57 AM
Back to fabulous free flight after some real life distractions and even some flying.
Here in Melbourne we have been having bursts of the sort of weather we expect in May.
Days with little or no wind and inversions on many mornings bringing a few calm hours before a normal windy day.

DDIII was completed back on the 10th. 1.5 gm of ballast bought it safely over the limit.

The asymmetric fin required some experimentation with alignment before being finally glued in place.
Luckily an inversion facilitated test glides at the local park the next morning.
Very promising; nice floaty glide and a forgiving mushy stall rather than a sudden plunge.
Thanks to Charlie Sotich for getting the spar placement right. But the grass was very wet.
More local testing two days later had the fin sorted except for final tweaks.

A really good burst of weather came along in the next few days so out to our field to trim out the power pattern.
I built the wing with the right panel flat and 3mm washout in the left panel. The CG was close the the design point.
A small amount of down and side thrust were built in. A little extra down thrust got DDIII spiralling up nicely while recovering safely from excessively steep launches.
I went with a pop-up tailplane DT for the time being and it turned out that the design DTs stably with a 50 deg tip up so the rate of decent is high enough to be safe.
Then went out again the next day (the 15th) to try and get a score but only managed false starts.
It was really difficult to tell the difference between rising air and sink in the very light drift.
Another great day a week later (the 21st) made it possible to put together a modest but respectable 'fallback' score. 
This week we are spoiled for choice with four great days in a row forecast.
So with luck I will go out on two days and try to put together a better score.

So Mark you have stimulated a rather unusual amount of flying this August.
Of course I've been following Dave and Tim's exploits in Adelaide and wondering if their weather has been as obliging.
I also had an encounter with a difficult tree during the same period but DDIII was not the hostage so I will report on this elsewhere.

I assume that  "Models may be flown on more than one day during the allotted time spans."
means that a score can be assembled from flights made on a number of days.
Is this correct ?

Mark I will try to satisfy your curiosity about thermals down here, in a separate post.

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on August 26, 2014, 07:36:31 AM
Well that looks sensational Sean - is it a one coat dope finish - or what did you use?
Best of luck with your flights.
cheers
Tim


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on August 26, 2014, 08:18:48 AM
Two coats of standard dope were enough to seal the tissue Tim.
It's 70's tissue and a tad lighter than what you get now.
It slacks off a bit in the early morning but the geodetics make that a non-issue
The wood areas are just dyed and sealed with a wood sealer.
The camera is lying about the brilliance of the colours.
It looks pretty but its no lorikeet or tropical fish.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on August 26, 2014, 09:24:58 PM

I assume that  "Models may be flown on more than one day during the allotted time spans."
means that a score can be assembled from flights made on a number of days.
Is this correct ?

Sean

Soc,
Yes, you may assemble a score for the flights over more than one day.  Not sure what you mean by your "fallback score".  After you declare an official flight attempt to your timekeeper then it's an official flight (unless less than 20 secs).  You may not put together several series of official flights and pick which series you want to submit as official.  Please reference the rules at the first post in this thread.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on September 02, 2014, 09:59:00 AM
Hello everyone.  :)

Well, we're into September, the last month for those south of the equator to get their official flights in and recorded.  Best wishes to all those "down under" wherever you may be and a big thanks to all those building and flying.

Cheers,


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on September 02, 2014, 01:23:06 PM
Recently discovered that I'd scanned this plan but never posted Nikolina here.  I can mail a full size paper plan at $4 each if anyone wants one.  See reply #84  in the original thread for a pic of this smallish Cd'H.


I am curious to know how many are building the Nikolina . Also I would like to know if anyone has the names of any of Frank Parmenter's designs for the Coupe event. I know he must have flown a lot back in the day coverwd by this postal contest. Thanks for any information regarding this.

Frank was a true friend.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on September 03, 2014, 04:09:16 AM
Hello everyone.  :)

Well, we're into September, the last month for those south of the equator to get their official flights in and recorded.  Best wishes to all those "down under" wherever you may be and a big thanks to all those building and flying.

Cheers,
   Well that will teach me to read the rules, I thought this was a Winter Cup Postal.   :o   Some nice weather in early Spring ;D


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on September 25, 2014, 10:55:38 AM
It appears to be very difficult to attach a scan of your time sheet and send it through a PM via HPA messaging.   So, please send them direct to me at this address:
[email protected]



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Ratz on September 25, 2014, 11:12:21 AM
It appears to be very difficult to attach a scan of your time sheet and send it through a PM via HPA messaging.   So, please send them direct to me at this address:
[email protected]

"Very difficult" is understating it Mark, it CAN NOT be done via PM. This is true for our Internal Email System as well.
Some day perhaps but not now.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on September 28, 2014, 02:35:40 PM
I took my Baron Knight to Old Warden in perfect weather. I'd had to use a bootful of tail tilt and a hefty rudder tab to get a right turn, but it was trimmed for power in two flights. Just a shim on the noseblock to turn right under power and that was it. It is clear that it will go well if I chuck it into good air. Now I have to wait for horrible winter weather!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on September 28, 2014, 04:29:58 PM
Perfect weather here today too Bill.  So I took two HLG's out and first flight goes into a pond at the park where I fly.  So home to get a fishing rod and a sinker.  Drive back to the park and the wind had pushed it way off shore.....I had to sit around and wait for it to get within 40' of shore so I could cast a line over it and pull it in.  Now drying on the dining room table.  So that's how I spent a perfect day for flying.   I thought about swimming out to the model but didn't know how to swim back while holding a model.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on September 28, 2014, 04:33:29 PM
 I thought about swimming out to the model but didn't know how to swim back while holding a model.
Clamped between your teeth!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on October 01, 2014, 11:19:10 AM
With the arrival of October, the window for the flying in the Southern Hemisphere is closed.   Flying in the Northern Hemisphere opens December 1.


Good luck everyone.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on October 01, 2014, 02:56:55 PM
With regret I was unable to get any times-due solely to weather and site access....maybe next year if the contest continues. One of the worst winters and early springs in Wellington I can recall since I moved up here from down south. Had a great morning's flying yesterday-but that was one day too late (Oct 1...!). Even as it was-despite the absolutely perfect weather, driving into the interior of the farm was a hazardous operation-and even underfoot on our normal flying position the ground was waterlogged and audibly 'squelching' underfoot as you walked about.

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: tabby505 on October 01, 2014, 04:36:43 PM
  I thought about swimming out to the model but didn't know how to swim back while holding a model.
Clamped between your teeth!
While doing the back stroke of course.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on October 12, 2014, 03:04:57 PM
I entered the Baron Knight in the 8th Area Coupe event. I was impressed; three consecutive maxes in lift, 1.36 in still air and a 1:06 with a duff motor before disappearing for an hour into a hidden bomb crater. I learned that it is as good as anything if I chuck it into lift.
I think the 20sec motor run quoted is a misprint. Mine was running over 40 secs and it wasn't full turns


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on November 02, 2014, 02:16:14 PM
I see from SAM1066 Clarion that there is a Coupe meeting at N Luffenham on Dec 7th so that is where I shall make my winning flights!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: D/T on November 02, 2014, 02:28:53 PM
And win the Aeromodeller Trophy!
Don


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on November 02, 2014, 04:14:55 PM
A bonus.
Seriously; do you get thermals in December?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Pete Fardell on November 02, 2014, 04:22:59 PM
Yes, from M & S. Several sizes available.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: applehoney on November 02, 2014, 04:44:36 PM
Winter thermals?   Absolutely; may not be as strong as some summer ones but they are there and happy to take your model as a welcomed gift.     I've flown over snow at near freezing point, albeit sunny, and been glad of a working d/t


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: PeeTee on November 02, 2014, 04:48:47 PM
Bill

Jim (Applehoney) is spot on - so don't forget to light the DT fuse (although I hope it won't be snowing).


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: skyrocket on November 02, 2014, 07:21:42 PM
I'd be more concerned keeping my rubber warm and think I'd use the old ice-fisherman's remedy...also, we used to have contests here in the Cleveland, Ohio area in mid-winter and thermals were present but so were fire-barrels and rum...


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on November 22, 2014, 03:22:38 PM
Lots of French magazines on ebay now with vintage Coupe d'Hiver plans.  Check the date on the cover.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=coupe&_from=R40&_osacat=220&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xcoupe+hiver&_nkw=coupe+hiver&_sacat=220


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Hepcat on November 22, 2014, 05:01:06 PM
Re reply #255.

I was surprised to see my 'Gigi' plan for sale on the ebay site and still worth $7.84!  I should warn Coupe enthusiasts though that 'Gigi' is not a Coupe but a simple power model for beginners.

John


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on November 23, 2014, 02:16:57 AM
I wonder who holds the APS copyright these days-in the aftermath of Aeromodeller ceasing production in 2001, then restarting a few years later incoprporated into AMI-then restarting again as a fully independent publication. I doubt that vendor Dr Scribbles has any legal rights to the huge range of APS plans he sells on Ebay.............

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on November 23, 2014, 10:37:25 AM
Re reply #255.

 'Gigi' is not a Coupe but a simple power model for beginners.

John
And very good too. When I was a beginner, it got my DC Merlin into the air but eventually it landed in the sea at Southend. I got it back but didn't know that seawater was bad for engines.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on November 23, 2014, 04:16:59 PM
At the risk of taking this thread off topic-I second that comment by Bill-I've campaigned a Gigi in our National, regional and decentralised 'Aggregate' event (30 minute power scramble) for over 30 years-it proved to be an excellent design, being capable of very flat turns stably without spiralling in-which is a great asset in this event as you you the model to stay close to the launch point-even in wind. The rather tatty original is now over 30 years old being built around 1982 or 83 and is on it's third engine, having started with an Indian Mills, progressed through an Irvine Mills and for the past 15 years or so has had an MP Jet Classic up front-as has the new one, currently awaiting covering. The new one is built to Johns original Aeromodeller plan, whereas the original one had a few mods-such as deleting the 2 wheel undercarriage, and the subfin in favour of a simple wire skid. The new one has a few refinements such as the engine bay plywood lined-and ditto the cowling underside, plus a spruce leading edge to cope with midairs-which are not infrequent in Aggregate-especially with the LeMans start used. I put a bit more care into the building than usual on the basis that if the original has survived for 30+ years then this one should see out my FF days....I doubt I'll be flying aggregate when I'm 90!
   About the only criticism I have of the design is its a bit like-and worse than-the 'Simplex'-no matter how much care you take at the rear end you need a lot of lead in the nose to get the CG in the right place....possibly the ideal place for something like a Midge homebuilt diesel!
   The reason the original is currently noseless is that I was 'persuaded' by a friend to lend him the model to fly in the Aggregate event at the 2008 Nats (I was due to arrive late and miss that event in any case)-I reluctantly agreed, explained the trim settings were already set, and the engine setup and warned him not to adjust anything. I duly got the model back sans nose (and all the noseweight) and the twerp boasted when he gave it back that he ignored all my instructions, flew it 'his way' and lost the nose when it crashed over the far side of a hedgerow. Needless to say he's an ex friend-and can consider himself lucky I didn't deck him on the spot.........

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on November 30, 2014, 06:13:16 PM
With the start of December, we open the flying window (Dec through March) for the Northern Hemisphere flyers.  Please re-read the rules at the first post in this thread.

Good luck to all participants.

Mark


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on December 04, 2014, 08:57:24 AM
Looking forward to making my flights this Sunday at Luffenham at La Grande Coupe de Birmingham. Just to be up front, I shall be using my contest flight times also for the Postal. Is anyone else entering the Postal there? I have many new Tan SS motors ready so hopefully no more duds giving me one minute flights into a bomb crater.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: D/T on December 04, 2014, 09:02:59 AM
Bill
But what if the N Luff max is reduced, if its windy?
Don


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on December 04, 2014, 10:11:46 AM
Bill
But what if the N Luff max is reduced, if its windy?
Don
Then I shall consume a bacon sandwich and re-assess the situation.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: PeeTee on December 04, 2014, 10:19:06 AM
Bill


Bring an extra large frying pan so you can make bacon sandwiches for us all ;D

The weather is deteriorating nicely with the wind from the west. Ah well, when the going gets tough and all that!

Cheers

Peter


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on December 06, 2014, 02:11:35 PM

The weather is deteriorating nicely with the wind from the west. Ah well, when the going gets tough and all that!

Peter
Good. My only chance. Many years ago at a terrible Nats, I could have won Open Power. Tom Smith, Julian Hopper, Russell Peers, Trevor Payne et al were disappearing into the clag while my crappy Heatwave struggled up to the cloudbase. But overruns, the hangar and other mishaps did me in!
I just tested a motor to bursting at 440 turns, so I shall wind to 439 1/2
Incidentally, is Garter Knight available anywhere?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on December 06, 2014, 03:13:17 PM
Bill I have the original plan I can copy and mail if you get no response closer to home.

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on December 06, 2014, 03:20:30 PM
Bill I have the original plan I can copy and mail if you get no response closer to home.

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'
Thanks Chris. Is it essentially a Baron Knight with square tips and fuselage?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Ployd on December 06, 2014, 05:10:20 PM
The Garter Knight (designed by D. Morley) had sort of square tips, sheet box fuselage up to the motor peg and tip dihedral only. Free plan in Aeromodeller, December 1961. Have the plans for both.

Ployd in OZ


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: PeeTee on December 06, 2014, 05:29:05 PM
Bill

I note you studiously ignored my suggestion for a larger frying pan ;D

Pity you didn't enquire about the Garter Knight sooner. I have the plan somewhere  ::) and could have copied it onto A3 sheets at the local sweetie shop. However, it is on the Morley club's plan list and I feel sure that if you had a quiet word with Gordon W or Dennis D they would get it copied for you.

Peter
ps I note that the forecast windspeed has now dropped below 20 mph - almost flat calm ;)


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on December 06, 2014, 08:19:35 PM

[/quote]
Thanks Chris. Is it essentially a Baron Knight with square tips and fuselage?
[/quote]

Yes Bill more or less-I've just overlaid my Baron Knight on the Garter Knight plan to check-the fuselages are near identical (the BN being diamond rather than square as the GN is)the GN pylon is a bit simpler as a result. Wing and tail virtually the same apart from dihedral and tip shape, ditto prop assembly-though seeing as the GN came out in '61 and the BN in '65-the latter is the derivative design not the former.....

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on December 07, 2014, 01:00:29 PM
Thanks chaps, but I think my Baron Knight is probably a better development of the GK so I will work on that one.

Well I got my flights in today in dreadful conditions at N Luffenham, but a very enjoyable day nevertheless!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: PeeTee on December 07, 2014, 02:55:02 PM
Well Bill, you got home quickly; the last time I saw you, you were still giving the chocolate, carrot and walnut cakes a good seeing to ;D........wot no bacon sandwich during the day?

Congratulations on the times you achieved, you were only just out of the money from what I saw. However, instead of saying "conditions dreadful" perhaps "challenging" is more in line with a typical British understatement  ;)

Am I now excused copying the GK plan?

Peter


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on December 07, 2014, 03:19:59 PM
Well Bill, you got home quickly; the last time I saw you, you were still giving the chocolate, carrot and walnut cakes a good seeing to ;D........wot no bacon sandwich during the day?

Congratulations on the times you achieved, you were only just out of the money from what I saw. However, instead of saying "conditions dreadful" perhaps "challenging" is more in line with a typical British understatement  ;)

Am I now excused copying the GK plan?

Peter
Peter, yes thanks - I will pass on the GK and set my sights higher. Yes, bacon sandwiches between rounds 3 and 4.
I must say that when I was crouched in a muddy field, wrestling with bits of model as the wind howled and  hail ran down my neck, I felt somewhat 'challenged'! All good fun though. What larks, eh Pip.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: DaddyO on December 07, 2014, 03:37:23 PM
How many times do I have to tell you boys about playing in the mud at Nth Luffenham  ;D


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: PeeTee on December 07, 2014, 03:58:25 PM
Muddy fields, feet down rabbit holes, and traversing barbed wire fences without reverting to soprano! All in a day's model flying ::) (Lunatics R Us :D)


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on January 29, 2015, 08:34:00 AM
On my last flight I was trudging back with Phil Ball; frozen, wet, face hail-lacerated. Just as the wing snapped, Phil said "there is no better way to spend a Sunday, is there", and I had to agree.
Anyway, now my scores are in, I have turned to the prop, as intended. Expert Gavin Manion has generously given me a couple of blade blanks to play with, and here they are. They certainly look the business - more than my paddle which has reverted to flatness. The new prop is 6g lighter too. I look forward to trying it out next weekend. It does look a little incongruous on this old design!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: glidermaster on February 06, 2015, 12:21:14 PM
People just don't understand the allure of flying free flight in the Winter in the UK, do they  :D


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: PeeTee on February 06, 2015, 12:28:39 PM
Quote
People just don't understand the allure of flying free flight in the Winter in the UK, do they  Cheesy

and it's the 1st Area meeting on Sunday, coupe, E36, mini vint & combined power plus a couple of other classes. The wind forecast has now dropped to below 40 mph so it'll be a nice relaxing day ::)


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on February 06, 2015, 12:38:22 PM
I'm ready. I've assembled a selection of coats and will buy a woolly hat tomorrow. My coupe now has a prop with a twist in it, so watch out.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: DaddyO on February 06, 2015, 02:00:32 PM
I'm ready. I've assembled a selection of coats and will buy a woolly hat tomorrow. My coupe now has a prop with a twist in it, so watch out.

For the hat or the prop Bill  ;D


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: glidermaster on February 06, 2015, 03:35:51 PM
My late Dad had a woolly hat for every contest of the season - even the 'summer' ones.
If we'd ever run out of oil, he could have carried on flying power for a couple of season just wringing out the fuel from his hats.........
......or maybe he would have let me lube the motors for my Coupes with it (to stay on topic).  :D

I well remember as a teenager getting a Coupe to do more than a minute for the first time, and I even had one that needed a DT when I was about 15.
JB


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Hepcat on February 06, 2015, 08:45:53 PM
Response to #276

Bill,
I have never met Gavin Manion and he doesn’t know me but he sure knows propellers.  I have had an unbridled interest in them for as long as I can remember so please pass on to him my regards for something beautiful.

I also notice you have one of those big, vulgar SMAE transfers.  Is it a treasure from the past or are they selling them again?  Good Luck with the Coupes.  They really are the best FF class – a challenge for everyone and yet within everyone’s reach.
John


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: PeeTee on February 07, 2015, 07:03:38 AM
John

I'm surprised that you've not met Gavin over the years - lovely chap that he is  ;) The prop blades he uses are based on those by Edgardo Figueroa shown in the FFQ coupe book.

I have to say that Bill's Baron Knight with a twin blade folder reminds me of the coupes JOD used to fly in later years.

Peter


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on February 07, 2015, 07:43:00 AM
Response to #276

Bill,
I have never met Gavin Manion and he doesn’t know me but he sure knows propellers.  I have had an unbridled interest in them for as long as I can remember so please pass on to him my regards for something beautiful.

Hi John. Elsewhere on the forum there was some discussion about pre-tensioning/stop screw and whether the last few turns actually do anything. My 'new' prop is lighter so I will have to re-trim and I tried a very few turns on a football field last night. Even with just 20 turns I could see the prop was pulling the model along and maintaining height - opposite to my experience with an Urchin which did not stop/fold on time.
I know we are straying off topic but as far as I'm concerned, this Postal has encouraged me to have a go at Coupe and, while I don't want to go hi-tech, I am interested in fitting a modern prop to some of the older, balsa designs.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on February 21, 2015, 09:31:40 PM
Mark, as close as I can guess the end of winter here in Oregon is March 19th.My friend and I are just finishing our "My Coupe's" (mine is done and he is just about done covering his) and I thought I should check to see if the 19th is last day for your postal.So far the only days  that have been flyable are work days.Will send a picture of the two after he finishes his. :) 


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on February 24, 2015, 08:05:29 PM
Bruce,
Those in the Northern Hemisphere (includes Oregon) have through the end of March, 2015.

Thanks for the interest.  My apology for the delay in reply.
 


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on March 04, 2015, 10:06:03 AM
This cup will be awarded to the 1st place builder/flyer for this postal Coupe d'Hiver contest.  The cup itself is solid brass and is approximately 70 years old.  Plaques will be awarded to 2nd and 3rd place finishers.   The contest will end at the end of this month.  Good luck to all those who have yet to make their flights.



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Rewinged on March 08, 2015, 08:53:07 PM
Here are a couple of beautiful coupes.  These are the "My Coupe" renditions by my clubmates and friends, FF Bruce and Marty T, as mentioned above.  They put in their postal flights today, and I was there for the last couple of flights.  These planes fly as good as they look!

--Bill


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: DerekMc on March 09, 2015, 02:38:31 PM
I saw the bones of FF Bruce's plane when I was there in February. Gorgeous workmanship as usual. Can't wait to see one fly.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on March 10, 2015, 10:36:38 PM
I wasn't sure how much fun a postal meet could be,well I have to say it was a blast.For a week we watched the weather forecast, Sun. looked like it could be flyable and it turned out to be a great day for free flight.After a 125 mile drive we set up with no wind at all.  Our club president came out and timed all of our flights.It was sorta like a test fly session but with a need to always try and find good air.We used a streamer from a 12' pole and my favorite cat tail fluffies.My friend Marty Thompson  has lost some of the use of his right hand so I did the winding for the both of us.The models flew real well, the thermals where light but good enough for two min. We didn't max out but after 5 flights each we tied.The end to a perfect day,ten offical flights ,beautiful day and a new appreciation  for the simple pre 1970 coupe flyiers.Now that we have these coupes I hope we can do it again next year.My thanks to Mark for running the postal and after it's all over would love to see all the flight times a countries that flew in it. :D ;D  Bruce Hannah   


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on March 11, 2015, 10:16:48 AM
I didn't get my coupe finished this year. I hope we can arrange to do this again next year and I will get mine done and flown. Glad you had so much fun this year, if you were able to take part in this fun event. ;D ;D :-[


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on March 12, 2015, 02:47:48 AM
  Beautiful Coupes  Bruce and Marty, Glad you fellas had a good time flying them, so much more fun when you share it with a fellow flyer.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Free Flight EMT on March 14, 2015, 02:37:12 PM
Mark, I'd like to Thank You for all you've done to make the 1960's Coupe d'Hiver Postal Competition possible. FF Bruce and I flew our models and turned in our times last weekend in Oregon and it looks like we got them in just in time. The rest of Winter in Central Oregon and the Valley looks terrible! We built and flew Bill Vanderbeek's design "My Coupe". Our goal was to build these models exclusively for the Postal Competition. We can use them in our northwest competitions in the future but there isn't much interest in the "Old School Coupes". We do have the "Best" Coupe Flyer in the World, Tiffaney O'Dell at our competitions so maybe we will fly with her? I would really appreciate being able to see all the results from all the participants and countries who participated in your very fun competition. Thanks again for all your hard work and as for "Me" I had a Blast!! Marty Thompson


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Free Flight EMT on March 16, 2015, 07:18:58 AM
Quote from: Free Flight EMT link=topic=16375.msg161006#msg161006 date=14263
[/quote


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on March 17, 2015, 02:35:44 PM
Two weeks remaining in this 1960s Cd'H postal competition for those flying in the Northern Hemisphere.  Time is running out.   Good luck to those yet to fly and my thanks to those who have participated already.



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Free Flight EMT on March 19, 2015, 05:52:09 PM
Two weeks remaining in this 1960s Cd'H postal competition for those flying in the Northern Hemisphere.  Time is running out.   Good luck to those yet to fly and my thanks to those who have participated already





Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on March 23, 2015, 04:07:46 AM
Following pressure from my training team, I have re-trimmed the Baron Knight to fly right/left. I don't like all the sidethrust - there must be friction losses on my simple wire shaft - but it certainly looks good. There is a positive right turn right up to prop fold, whereupon it goes straight into the turn. No long straight bit to lengthen the walk there and back.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: craig h on March 23, 2015, 09:14:10 AM
I'm glad to see that this class of balsa and tissue of older era models has been brought back. It looks to be a tradition of fun flying as it is meant to be.
I would like to take part in this event but my skill of fabricating a front end and prop making maybe  beyond my reach...

Thank all of you for bringing back a lost tradition..


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on March 23, 2015, 08:33:13 PM
Craig,don't sell your self short.If you can build a model then the front end is just one more part.My first ones were not pretty,once even carved a prop backwards.Now I love to carve and make many of my friends props.There are many ways to make one,you can form them around a large can or if needed find a friend to give you a hand .If they have this event next year I hope you will try and join us.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on April 01, 2015, 03:20:10 AM
Winter´s over!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on April 01, 2015, 09:37:32 AM
The flying for the 1960s Coupe d'Hiver postal is over.  I will wait a couple of days for any potential late scores to be sent in and then post the results.  Stay tuned.  Thank you to all who participated.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on April 01, 2015, 10:59:54 AM
PLease let us know also if next year will be a go also. I really want to get one done for this .


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on April 04, 2015, 01:22:42 PM
Results of the 2014/2015 1960s Coupe d’Hiver Postal Contest

1st           Sean O'Connor          Aus   Dwarf Dip(III?)  120  120  105  120  120 = 585
2nd  (tie)  Bruce Hannah          USA    My Coupe         120  120  120   65   120 = 545
2nd  (tie)  Marty Thompson      USA     My Coupe         107  120  120  120   78 = 545
3rd          Bill Dennis                UK    Barron Knight II   68  108    93   64    94 = 427
4th          Dave Putterill            Aus   Drobek             120    54    63   63    85 = 385

Sorry, I could not figure out how to put a table in this post despite icons for doing so.

Obviously the amount of interest shown in the two threads did not translate into actual building and flying as we only had five modellers/modelers submit scores.  I have doubts about trying this again unless there is real support for it expressed on this thread or privately.    My sincere thanks to those who did put forth the effort for this postal and congratulations to Sean O'Connor (SOC) for his victory.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on April 04, 2015, 02:35:07 PM
Mark
Thanks for organising this Postal, which I enjoyed even more than your previous SE5 event. It´s a shame more of the talk did not translate into action, but there you go.
I have always dabbled in duration but this Postal led me into taking it more seriously, and as a result I have met a whole new group of people, who have proved helpful and friendly in the extreme.
As I have said before, I learned that the propellor is the crucial factor, at least until you get to flyoff rounds. I suspect not many will agree with me but, if doing it again, I would suggest removing the requirement of using the original prop design.
Congratulations to all who took part.
Bill


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on April 04, 2015, 04:34:21 PM
Mark,
    Please don't give up on us.It takes a little time for an event to get going.My friend Marty and I found the whole experience quite fun.Having a dead line also put a little pressure on us to finish and leave time for flyable weather.We have many times kidded about being the only two free flights left on the plant and out on the field that is how it felt. No other planes to piggy back off of,just us a sky.As I remember it this is the very first postal contest I've ever participated in and I do hope it's not the last.Thank you Mark and way to go Sean. :D   


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on April 04, 2015, 07:41:38 PM
Mark,
         Thank you also for running this event, way out of my comfort zone but I enjoyed it immensely.
If you can be persuaded  to run another worldwide event I would certainly try to participate, as far as rules go the idea of a vintage event is that the models should be of the period, there's no point improving the performance using latter technology or design.
                                                                                                                                 Well Done Mark!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on April 04, 2015, 09:24:03 PM
Mark I agree with Bill. Lets try again next year. Looks like a great event to try.
Thanks for organising this Postal, which I enjoyed even more than your previous SE5 event. It´s a shame more of the talk did not translate into action, but there you go.
I have always dabbled in duration but this Postal led me into taking it more seriously, and as a result I have met a whole new group of people, who have proved helpful and friendly in the extreme.
As I have said before, I learned that the propellor is the crucial factor, at least until you get to flyoff rounds. I suspect not many will agree with me but, if doing it again, I would suggest removing the requirement of using the original prop design.
Congratulations to all who took part.
Bill


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Hepcat on April 05, 2015, 07:10:09 AM
First, Congratulations to all the flyers.  Nowadays, flying sites and getting to them is often a problem and wherever in the world you are the weather can, literally, blow away your best intentions.

Second, Congratulations to all the builders.  Your comments, reports and discussions gave us, I think, the most enjoyable thread for a long time.

Finally, Congratulations and thanks to Mark for having the idea and carrying it through to fruition.  There may not have been many flyers at the end but I think it is often the case that the journey is more interesting than the destination.  Also, on Hip Pocket, I think there are many FF enthusiasts who, like me,  because of advancing years, can no longer get on to a FF field but take immense vicarious pleasure from following the activities of others.

John 


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: USch on April 05, 2015, 10:54:30 AM
Hi Mark and everybody writing about this topic,
 I did not partecipating in this competition because it was to late when I discovered the thread, but if you do it again next year I will try hard to be with you.

Reading the earlier post many memories from the beginning of the '60 came to mind, especially when I found the drawing of the only Cd'H I ever build in 1964, Lil Elias (?). Actually, I was scrolling the whole topic to find the exact name, but no way. Either my eyes are getting weeker, let's alone the brain  ;D
or it is somewhere else  ???

Anyway, thanks for a nice idee to bring back these days.

Urs


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on April 05, 2015, 05:58:18 PM
I have just learned that one of our two 2nd place finishers, Marty Thompson, is in the hospital.  Please join me in wishing him all the best for a speedy recovery and a belated Happy Easter.



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on April 05, 2015, 07:55:21 PM
Marty I hope you are back home out of the hospital very soon( read well and vastly improved ) Congratulations on doing so well in the coupe postal contest.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on April 05, 2015, 09:15:08 PM
Hi Mark - Sorry for not sending in my scores.
Had a great time building and flying the Guy Cognet coupe.
And flying with dputt...  and the whole getting models stuck in trees... koala attacks. That was all Dave by the way. So pretty impressive he still posted times.
Mine is a DNQ - did not qualify. It got one max - but I can't find the other times...  which were all under 120 anyway.
And on further research I could not verify the design publication date as being in the sixties. It's actually 70's...  I forgot to check.

Anyway, isn't there an old saying: If you can remember the sixties - you weren't really there...
:-)

Best wishes to Marty Thompson and well done SOC

cheers
Tim


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: craig h on April 06, 2015, 07:44:57 AM
Didn't Crashcaley have something to do with this event! I haven't seen any posts from her on this form for a while. I hope she is doing well and nothing has happened..


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on April 06, 2015, 08:33:37 AM
Didn't Crashcaley have something to do with this event! I haven't seen any posts from her on this form for a while. I hope she is doing well and nothing has happened..

No, Craig h, Miss Caley Hand had nothing to do with this postal contest.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on April 10, 2015, 12:17:00 AM
Mark and others,
please excuse my slow response to the posting of the long awaited results.
However I have the advantage that I can now see that the thread is still attracting quite a lot of interest.

I was surprised, and of course pleased, to see my name at the top of the list in the 60s Coupe results given my modest score.
I had assumed one or more fly-off rounds would be needed to get in the top three.
But then I saw that the number of entries was also very modest for an international postal.
Perhaps those who built models but didn't submit scores were, like me, expecting fierce competition.

I'm grateful that Mark provided the incentive to build a model that I would not have got around to otherwise.
It is Dwarf Dip III, the successor to Dwarf Dip II which has a 'simpler' parallel rib wing structure.
Charlie Sotich's designs always caught my eye when they appeared in the FF column in MAN.
I thought they were very practical, good looking and potentially 'hot'. DDIII lived up to my expectations.
I flew it in the State Champs here a few weeks ago coming second. See more below.

Its pleasing to see that others are keen, as I am, to take part in a second round of the Mark's concept.
I hope I can persuade at least one other local to have a go next time round.
 
So thanks to Mark for the idea and organisation,
to the other contestants and those who built and perhaps flew but failed for various reasons,to post results,
and to those who contributed to the discussion.
Congratulations to the runners up and best wishes to Marty.

Sean



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on April 10, 2015, 01:17:02 AM
60s Coupe competes in open field.

Bill Dennis is right about props being the key.
One reason I picked Dwarf Dip was its prop which I judged would work well 'as is'.
At the moment its my only operational coupe so I flew it in the combined mini event at the recent State Champs.

There was a modest breeze forecast and actual, and these days a heart condition limits my total range,
so I thought I might not complete 5 rounds. However I found good air, maxed twice and the competitive instinct kicked in.
In the next two rounds I paid careful attention to the streamers, picked the right moment to launch, and maxed again.
So to the last round by which time I'm getting tired.
I thought there had been a wind shift which was forecast, so I confused the steady direction of the streamers with the deviations which indicate nearby lift. I'm  standing there in classic two arms raised posture when I become aware that my belt is creeping earthward.
What to do ? If I grab the the nose and prop with one hand and attempt to hitch my pants up with the other I will likely be clumsy and damage the model. If I throw modesty to the wind I may have a better chance at a max, but possibly never recover my dignity.
So I chose the middle path, launched hastily a few seconds after the right moment and while securing my belt watched a good climb turn into a so-so cruise and an increasingly rapid descent. 102 seconds when I needed at least 115 !

That's Free Flight, but its still fun which is why we are all still enthralled.

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on April 10, 2015, 02:46:52 AM
Sean
Congratulations on your win. It was fun, wasn´t it.
I would like to do it again, but with a different model, solely because the prop on mine was woeful. It is unfortunate but inevitable that the effective choices are limited by the props, but no matter. It is essential to find a decently-propped model which can be entered in current events (I entered two others this winter with some success due mainly to keeping going) otherwise its use is limited.
Bill


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on April 10, 2015, 11:01:00 AM
Here are a couple of beautiful coupes.  These are the "My Coupe" renditions by my clubmates and friends, FF Bruce and Marty T, as mentioned above.  They put in their postal flights today, and I was there for the last couple of flights.  These planes fly as good as they look!

--Bill
Have the plans for this appeared on previous pages, to sabe me searching through, or where are they from?
Bill


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: D/T on April 10, 2015, 11:10:16 AM
Bill
Plans available from NFFS Plans (USA), listed as 'My Coup'.
Don


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on April 10, 2015, 01:06:17 PM
Thank you


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on April 11, 2015, 11:58:56 AM
Found the plan listing for My Coupe but there are no details. Can anyone tell me the span/chord/área and when it appeared? I like the geodetic rear end - unnecessary but much easier to cut and fit spacers!
Bill


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on April 11, 2015, 12:16:16 PM
Bill if you go to page 9 reply 159  you will see a 3 veiw of the My Coupe.The detail on the body is not right but it will give you some of the info. you want.  Bruce


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on April 11, 2015, 12:33:48 PM
I fogot to tell you it was designed in 1967 by Bill Vanderbeek ,won the USA nats in 67,68 and 69 I think the 67 & 68 nats he was in the senior class.The 3 veiw came out in 1969 in his club news letter (the 900 club) that is where the 3 veiw came from. Was also the small rubber model of the year some time in the 1970's.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on April 11, 2015, 01:01:24 PM
Thank you


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on April 15, 2015, 11:30:38 PM
Mark I just received the plaque.It is very nice and was well worth the effort.Will take it to Marty(we are sharing it) tomorrow after I feed his cat.He won't be going to his house for a few months.Count us in if you do it again.     Thanks, Bruce


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on April 26, 2015, 05:00:53 PM
ANNOUNCEMENT

The 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal Contest will be held again for 2015-2016.  Rules will remain as before; see first post in this thread.  PLEASE read them again before building a model or any flying.  Models already in hand may be used.

That means flying for modellers in the southern hemisphere will commence on June 1, 2015, a little more than a month from now.



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on April 26, 2015, 05:49:19 PM
Great news Mark.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on April 26, 2015, 08:41:04 PM
Good hopefully this year the weather will allow me to get some times in...

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on April 26, 2015, 09:18:36 PM
I hope someone here is able to talk me thru printing the rules for the event without printing all the notes . I just want the rules. I know what I will be building for the next go at this great event. I jhave a friend who is already building his coupe so maybe he can time for me and vice versa.

Thanks Mark for keeping this postal alive.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on April 26, 2015, 09:33:35 PM
My smart daughter figured out how to print the rules so I won't need you all to try. I have them printed just fine.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on April 27, 2015, 03:26:03 AM
Thanks Mark!  ;D  a month  :o  thought this was supposed to be a relaxing hobby!  Surely using existing models is cheating  ;D though it would save some time.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on April 27, 2015, 03:35:51 AM
Surely using existing models is cheating
No! You can't expect people to build a new model for one comp. However, I shall have to, since I have butchered my Baron Knight for a two blade prop. Now I have to start looking around. I fancy something French but not too weird.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on April 27, 2015, 07:54:37 AM
Bill you missed this  ;D out of my quote


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on April 27, 2015, 08:11:25 AM
Ah, sorry Dave! I don't really get the face thingys. In fact I've only just noticed the row of faces here. And now I see that each one has an explanation! The one with the big eyes I assumed meant 'must stop doping in a closed room'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on April 27, 2015, 10:57:51 AM
This is good news,must start making up motors so I can start flying in NOV.  :D Man that is a long time to wait.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on April 27, 2015, 12:09:00 PM
Man that is a long time to wait.

Just explain to the wife that you need to make a trip to Australia or NZ.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on April 27, 2015, 04:23:25 PM
I'll offer a bed if you make the trip.....but I wouldn't bother just yet-the weather here right now is appalling....

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: glidermaster on April 27, 2015, 07:29:07 PM
I'm giving this some serious thought, as Coupe was my favourite years ago.
Pity about the cut-off, though - Mike Fantham had a very pretty Coupe called Pawnee in the early 70's.
Still, no problem, plenty more to choose from  :)
John


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on May 05, 2015, 02:39:00 PM
As several people have asked for earlier and later models to be included in the scope of eligibility, I will give some explanation for keeping the rules as they are and limiting the selection of models to designs published in the 1960s.

First, the rules say the model's plan must have been published between Jan, 1960 and Dec 1969.  That's a cut and dried criteria....no stretching the time span either way with arguments; the onus is on the modeler/modeller to have proof of eligibility in hand if challenged.  Numerous eligible designs have been presented in this thread and in the earlier locked thread about this postal.  There's more than enough to choose from and you're certainly free to go find more eligible designs.

Second, I did not want to overlap the existing vintage coupe competitions commonly flown in France, the UK and elsewhere.  Those are for earlier models, maybe someone can let us know the exact cut-off dates.  I seem to have lost the date(s).

Third, I wanted the models to be simple in the hopes that those new to aeromodeling/aeromodelling and others who have not tried and are not likely to try modern FAI F1G Coupe would jump in and have a go.  Models from the 1960s were simple by today's standards and built of the common model building materials of balsa, tissue and wire.  Nothing fancy, just a straightforward rubber powered endurance model.  HPA is all about experiencing the enjoyment of flying a model you built with your own two hands. That's what Cd'H used to be.

Forth, while Coupe d'Hiver in France and possibly neighboring countries (Belgium, Netherlands, Switzerland) was flown back to the late 1930s, the event was local to those areas.   I think Cd'H was first noticed in the UK in 1961 and in the USA about 1964, Australia near the end of the decade.  So earlier models for countries other than France and nearby neighbors don't really exist.

I recently had the opportunity to make a full size copy of the plan for the Sky d'Hiver that appeared in the March, 1965 issue of the British magazine Model Aircraft.  I think this model is ideal for anyone wanting to have a first go with this postal.  It's extremely simple and the little article that comes with it, reproduced here, is full of exactly the kind of information one needs to built and fly including a bill of material.  Would it win?  I doubt it.  But I think this event is more about joining in the fun than about winning.  It's about learning something new, seeing how others tackle the problems, and making new friends.  Look at some of the posts in the more recent part of this thread and you will see the few modelers who did take part in 2014-2015 did have fun.   So, please consider joining us and promoting this postal locally as you can.  If you'd like a copy of the Sky d'Hiver plan, I can mail you one for costs.   The full rules for this postal contest may be found in the very first post of this thread; add one year to the dates specified therein.

Thank you.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on May 05, 2015, 02:59:57 PM
Mark,
Good.
Bill

PS just cutting ribs for a My Coupe, having modified my Baron Knight out of contention. In fact the layouts of both models, apart from losing the tips, is the same - even the sections and spar sizes/location


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on May 05, 2015, 08:29:44 PM
Bill,
Could you build another fuselage for the Baron to get it back to eligible?  Assumes you still have the original propeller.




Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on May 06, 2015, 01:49:31 AM
Hi Mark
No, I don't have the prop either so it is too much work just for five flights. The My Coupe will be competitive in F1G too, so it's a more attractive proposition and only a week's work at most.
Having seen the change in performance with a two blade prop (with a decent twist) I wouldn't go back to the BK prop.
Bill


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: korale on May 12, 2015, 12:14:30 AM
Mark,

   Having listened to Sean O'Connor (Soc on Hipppocket) at the last club meeting I have decided that I will join in the postal I have decided to build the CdH by Geo Batiuk, much thanks to Rich Wegener for creating the drawings in the plan gallery.

   I will start with the bit that I'm most unfamiliar with, the prop and prop stop mechanism.

   I have one question. the plan shows the diameter and pitch of the prop but provides no construction notes. what are the acceptable methods of making the blades , can I laminate a fan of balsa strips at the correct pitch ?

Korale


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on May 12, 2015, 03:18:35 PM
Korale,
For your propeller, you may fill in the missing bits with anything you like as long as it is not more modern than '60s practice.  You may make balsa blades by carving them, molding them, fan of strips, whatever you like.

Cheers,


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on May 14, 2015, 06:59:52 AM
I am going to write a short piece for Aeromodeller to publicise the event. If any of those of you who put photos of your models on here are able to send me high resolution pics, I'd be very grateful.
Bill


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on May 14, 2015, 11:10:37 PM
Hi Bill
I'll try to assist your good work, but could you clarify two points.
How high a resolution is desired ?
One cannot send attachments via the HPA mail system so an email is needed.

Sean




Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on May 15, 2015, 03:15:05 AM
Hi Sean
Many thanks. I'll pm you my email. The editor likes a resolution of approaching 1mb
cheers
Bill


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on June 01, 2015, 04:41:40 PM
Just a reminder that the 2015-2016 version of this postal has started and those living south of the equator can be flying NOW through the end September 2015.  Please post photos here of any building or flying activity associated with this event.  If you don't, I shall have to post photos of my own build  ;).

Thank you.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on June 01, 2015, 04:44:48 PM
Thanks for the reminder. This ought to get the flyers/builders hopping to get things done. Thanks again for running the event and sticking your own models into the fray. Lets get busy.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on June 02, 2015, 03:17:02 AM
   Looking forward to your photos Mark  ;D


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: glidermaster on June 02, 2015, 06:54:29 PM
Yup, me too!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on June 02, 2015, 09:37:37 PM
Mark some sad news ,my friend Marty Thompson that was second at your first postal passed away on May 27th.I talked him into building a "My Coupe" and send in his times.This ended up being his last time on the flying field.We had a blast it was like a contest of just us and we tied.Not sure how you feel about letting someone flying his model in this years contest he was looking forward to kicking my butt this time(his model only has 7 flights on it and 5 of those where officials).I hope I can,he was my flying buddy for 50 years.    Bruce   


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on June 03, 2015, 03:19:47 PM
Sure Bruce, you can fly Marty's MY COUPE.  Sorry to hear you lost your flying buddy.  Glad your last time flying with him was such a good time.  I lost one of my model flying buddies in 2014.  My flying buddy, Rudy, was handicapped through having only one leg following a railroad accident in the 1950s.  I flew proxy for him several times while he was still living, so sure....have at it. 

My condolences to Marty's family.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on June 11, 2015, 06:37:23 AM
   Sad news indeed Bruce, Marty might be able to help you pick some good air when you fly his coupe, Good luck.

   Well after a few nights rereading both coupe threads and going through all my Aero Modellers and Model Aircraft mags  I finally decided on Deuzio  published as a full size plan in Aero Modeller December 1969.
    Haven't done much, just a fuselage side, had to extend my building board a couple of inches and even using the panorama function on my camera couldn't get it all in.
There might be a lesson there that will become obvious later ;D
At least its a start.
Dave


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on June 13, 2015, 09:02:51 PM
Nice start Dave.
Ok...  I'm in.

Q.  Is the George Matherat 'OOSH!' an 80 or 100g model?
(SOC Reply #37 on: April 04, 2014, 02:34:48 AM)

The 3-view published in Feb 65 MRA.

Tim


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on June 16, 2015, 05:43:07 AM
I think I've moved on from 'OOSH!' but will decide shortly...  so I can get something built.
Tim


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on June 16, 2015, 07:15:54 AM
Hi Tim

I'm pretty sure that the 100 gm weight for the MRA comp came in some time early in the 70s so OOSH would be an 80 gm model. The 100gm designs of that era seem to be from Eastern Europe.

However for the purposes of this competition, models that were originally 100gm can be built to 80gm.
Thus the original weight makes no difference, except possibly to the amount of wood and ease of building down to the target weight. From this point of view many attractive designs do seem to use a lot of sheet balsa in the fuselage.

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on June 16, 2015, 08:06:04 AM
Thanks Sean - I'm currently looking at Alain Landeau's 'Pamela' 1963 (April 64 Aeromodeller).
cheers
Tim


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on June 16, 2015, 08:44:33 AM
     Pamela seems a good choice, it was on my list as well but I just got lazy as I had the Deuzio plan.  As to sheeted fuselages I considered Henry Strucks Boom Daze but when I drew out the fullsize pod it was huge and the square boom was a bit odd. It also used a rather thick airfoil that put me off, though I'm sure Mr Struck knew what he was about.
    Some progress on Deuzio


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: PeeTee on June 16, 2015, 11:07:12 AM
Quote
I'm pretty sure that the 100 gm weight for the MRA comp came in some time early in the 70s

Coupe was an FAI class by then. Jean Wantzenreither wrote that 100g was a spec change for 1971 and it came back to 80g inc rubber in 1980 - at the same time the fuselage cross section rule was abolished.

Peter


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on June 20, 2015, 08:03:00 PM
With little (or no) thought, I decided to make an attempt at building my first Coupe with the intention of making a probably feeble attempt at joining the competition. I've built a dozen or more rubber powered models, so I'm not completely ignorant, but these seem to me to be a slightly different animal than most of what I've done.

Before I began reading here, and the earlier thread, I had no idea what a Coupe was or where a plan for one could be found. The "Nikolina" was pretty much an arbitrary choice, based mostly on the fact that there was a plan offered for a small fee (Thanks Mark!).

After receiving the plan in the mail and looking it over, I decided to tackle what I perceived to be the most difficult part of the build - the front end. Three tries, and a week later, I managed to get part of it done.

I made the decision to build it as close to exactly the way the plan shows as possible. I'm sure there are easier, acceptable ways of doing some things, but this one, I'd like to do the way it was drawn.

Now for a couple of rookie questions. I took a pic of the plan showing the prop blank. In the side view of the blank, which side is the front? Next question, what stops the blade from folding itself too far forward when under power? Is it simply the square cut? If so, then the radius cut would be at the rear of the blank and allow the prop to fold? I feel stupid asking, but I've nearly looked the ink off the paper and still can't be sure.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on June 20, 2015, 09:00:25 PM
    Hi CD 
                 Good to see some more action on this thread, and yes you are correct it is the square cut that locates the blade position and the flat side of the blade, closest to the edge of the page, is the rear of the blade. As a beginner in duration models as well, my best advice to you would be make sure each component is built as light as possible, some plans have a breakdown of component weights as a guide, not sure about Nickolina but check on other plans.  Hope to see more.
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Dave


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on June 21, 2015, 01:20:25 AM
Hi CD
Something in the back of my mind tells me there was an error with the prop which Aeromodeller corrected in the following issue (Jan 1965?). I´m away so I can´t check.
Nikolina is small so must be built right down to weight.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: mike on June 21, 2015, 07:07:33 AM
Hello Bill,
You set me off into the archive.......  The Nikolina correction was in the February 1965 issue - pix below.  The December 1965 issue, of course, had the Baron Knight as you well know.  It was that model that got me into Free Flight Contest Flying for the 40 years after that.....


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: mike on June 21, 2015, 07:13:45 AM
Sorry about the quality but I think they're useable. I had to reduce to get them to post.

Second and final picture attached.



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: mike on June 21, 2015, 07:32:15 AM
For completeness, here's what the Jan 65 issue had in the text and an image of the original free plan - looks the same as CD's.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on June 21, 2015, 09:02:58 AM
Dave, Bill and Mike, thanks for the input! I was hesitant to post such a modest amount of work, and to ask such a question, but it paid off for me - and at the right time. Still not sure how anybody remembers anything from 1965, or can find an article from that time either, but glad you did!

After posting last night, I slipped 2, 12" tubes into the hub and checked the measurements at either end as the instructions stated, and found that I had apparently not taken enough care in building the hub. I may need to make a 4th try since the measurements differed by 3/32" in 12" of length. Instructions said that the tube bearings must be parallel - mine are definitely NOT. Oh well, it looked purdy anyway, and there's plenty of time. It won't take as long this time. I still have the jig I made for my last try. Just need to exercise a little more care in assembly and drilling.

David


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: mike on June 21, 2015, 09:52:14 AM
All I remember is where I might have put things.

A trick I learnt on the Baron Knight was in lining up the fold tube in the blade root.  You have a slightly oversize hole in the root dowel, put the tube in with epoxy and then set the blade up on the pitch gauge with a long piece of wire through the hinge tube.  Then you can set up the hinge axis exactly where you want it and hold it there while the epoxy cures.  Do a dry assembly first to make sure the tube is free to go to the correct position without forcing it.  Then get the glue all round the loose tube and let it cure.

You could get your parallel in a similar way.  Fit three of the ply hinge plates, put the parallel wires into place while you stick the fourth hinge (slightly oversize) plate in place.  Finish the hinge plate to size after the glue has set.
Finally do the oversize hole with epoxied in bush trick on the hub hole to get it perpendicular to the hinges.

Edited to add clarifying words.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on June 21, 2015, 06:46:03 PM
Fourth time's a charm...


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on June 23, 2015, 04:48:13 PM
Thanks CD for your start. I have the plan for Nikolina and will also try to match the plan. Thanks for the inspiration to really stick to this design detail.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Hepcat on June 23, 2015, 06:16:19 PM
Cdw
I think you are very brave taking on the ‘Nikolina’, I don’t think that I could even make a set of tailplane ribs, seeing where the spars are, without breaking most of them.  Still you’ve given us an example of your workmanship on the hub so I guess you won’t have any problems. I noticed you were worrying about an alignment problem of less than half a degree – that’s not an error in my book!

Bill did mention keeping the weight down as there is not much wing area.  Well there is certainly a lot of wood there and so there is something to go at.  3/16” sheet for the sides of the wing mount looks silly, the 1/8” sheet fin could be weight (and in the wrong place) if you are not careful. 16g wire just to pivot the take off ‘stick’.  The propeller shaft also calls for 16g which I think would be very difficult to bend to the shape shewn.  Indeed if you look at the photograph of the hub assembly I am almost certain that is 18g wire.  If it was 16g it should be at least the size of the hole in the 14g aluminium tubing. That hinges the blades.

Talking of weight the plan does mention Soft balsa for the propeller blocks.  This was usual on old plans presumably because a large block was assumed to be heavy.  I think nowadays most people who have made a few props would say get quite a heavy block.  The best propellers have very thin blades so they don’t weigh much and a firm balsa is needed to carve them thin.

Staying with the propeller assembly, the noseblock is about the daftest thing I have seen for a long time and the correction in the extra bit of text confuses things even more as it is not clear whether it is the number of disks or the position needs transposing.

Anyway it will work if an N-2 disk is glued to the back face of the noseblock and an N-1 disk is glued to the back of the N-2 disk.  If the noseblock spigot part is now inserted through the nose former and given a partial turn then one of the corner of N-1 will rotate behind the nose former and hold the noseblock in place.

However the noseblock cannot them accept thrust line adjustment shims.  [As I write this I realize that one could use two N-2 disks glued to the noseblock which would allow shims but the noseblock would be free to rattle 1/16” so why bother with the twist to lock?]  You are probably thinking the same as me, ‘why bother to hold a Coupe noseblock in place anyway, the motor does that’.

What concerns me more is that pretty hemispherical noseblock which a careful builder will paint and polish to a very high standard.  How easy will it be to twist that and pull it out when the you have some lube on your fingers?

I hope that some of that makes sense!
John   


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on June 23, 2015, 10:23:07 PM
Amazingly enough (me being me), I was able to follow your concerns. Some of them I've thought about quite a bit, some I've barely considered. Like I said before, Coupes are pretty foreign to me. I'm sitting here thinking that most everything on my plan is just standard construction techniques common to most Coupes - the nose block locking on in particular. And I definitely noticed the solid sheet fin and wondered why, and why there? Maybe it was needed to offset the weight of the prop, hub and block?

If I was able to understand the comp. rules correctly though, deviations from the plans are not allowed, right? If they were, a built up fin would have to happen. Same thing with the nose block - a simple plug in block. I wouldn't count on much paint nor polish on it if I were you, though. I can't paint for squat!

As small as this model is, it still must weight at least 80 grams. It still surprises me how fast they add up, so I'm making a special effort in the wood selection department.

Began carving prop blades last night. Mucho, Mucho thinning left to do. Since I didn't have any soft balsa block, I used what I had. It's some tough stuff, and has already caused bloodshed.

Thanks for your thoughts, John!
David


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on June 24, 2015, 01:56:03 AM

As small as this model is, it still must weight at least 80 grams. It still surprises me how fast they add up, so I'm making a special effort in the wood selection department.

CD the total weight must be 80g; that´s 70g model and 10g rubber


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on June 24, 2015, 08:25:48 AM
If I was able to understand the comp. rules correctly though, deviations from the plans are not allowed, right? If they were, a built up fin would have to happen. Same thing with the nose block - a simple plug in block.

The rules don't say you can't make changes.  In many cases, all we have are small three-views and you have to improvise a lot of the design.  In the cases where you have a detailed full plan such as with Nikolina, you can make changes that you think prudent.  Try to imagine yourself as a teenager in the '60s building the model.  Would you have adhered to the plan exactly?  Probably not.  Just as an example with Nikolina, if I were building it, I'd add a snuffer tube for the D/T at the rear of the fuselage as I don't think I'd want to drop a burning fuse on the countryside these days.  If you want to reduce the amount of timber in this or any other eligible Coupe, please do so.   Just don't put more modern technology on the model.  Keep them simple; the exception being the allowance of mechanical timers where traditional fuse timers are not allowed by law.

Remember, there aren't going to be any judges going over your model.  As with any postal comp, adherence to the rules is a matter of your personal honor and conscience.

Carry on.   


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on June 24, 2015, 08:47:15 AM
Some more progress on Duezio..........style and grace, totally absent  ;D


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on June 24, 2015, 10:08:11 AM
Some more progress on Duezio..........style and grace, totally absent  ;D

Looks lovely from here Dave.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on June 25, 2015, 04:54:54 PM
The rules again with dates updated for the 2015-2016 season:

1960s Winter Cup Postal Rules

•   Dates of the competition:  In keeping with the spirit of a winter free flight event, those living in the Southern Hemisphere will fly June-Sept, 2015.   Those living in the Northern Hemisphere will fly in Dec, 2015 through March, 2016.  Models may be flown on more than one day during the allotted time spans.

•   Models must be built from plans or 3-views published between January, 1960 and December, 1969 (inclusive).    Earlier models that were published in the 1960s may be flown.  Models designed in the 1960s that were not published until later may not be flown in this competition.

•   In the event that models are built to small 3-views lacking detail or clarity, the competitor is allowed to improvise for the missing details but the model should be completed with 1960s’ technology and materials.  Models must not be “modernized” with materials that were not in common use in that decade.  For example, covering should be tissue paper, Silkspan or Modelspan.

•   Each competitor is responsible for being able to prove, if challenged, that the model in question was published in the 1960s time frame.  It is suggested that such documentation be in hand before any given model is constructed for this competition.
 
•   Models must not include VIT, folding wings, or other functions and materials common in modern F1G practice. (No carbon fiber, Kevlar, Mylar)

•   The D/T function should, if possible, be provided with whatever was used on the original for the timing function.  A mechanical timer may only be used if there is shown to exist, documentation that such a timer is appropriate to the airframe in question during the 1960s or if a burning fuse type is illegal in your locale.  Viscous timers are also permitted.

•   Models originally designed for 90gram airframes with 10gram motors may be lightened for this competition.
 
•   Each competitor may fly up to (3) three models but may enter only once.

•   Models must weigh in excess of 70.0 grams less motor.

•   Maximum weight of the motor lubricated is 10.0 grams.

•   Each competitor is on their honor to fly a model to the weight requirements.  The timesheet shall include an initialed statement that the weight of the airframe and the motor(s) used in the official flights meet the weight requirements.

•   Models shall be hand launched.   Jumping is allowed.

•   Each competitor is entitled to (5) five official flights with a maximum of 120 seconds for each official flight.

•   Each competitor shall declare to his/her timekeeper that an official flight is being attempted.
 
•   The timekeeper shall record the duration of the first attempt of the official flight unless the flight is unsuccessful.

•   An unsuccessful attempt shall be any flight of less than 20 seconds.

•   A second unsuccessful attempt at the official flight shall be recorded as a zero time flight.

•   The timekeeper should be positioned near the point of launching and may not follow the model.

•   If (5) five maxes are recorded by a competitor, additional official flight(s) shall be flown with maximum flight durations increasing in 30 second increments, 150, 180, 210, 240 seconds, etc.

•   The competitor and timekeeper shall sign their timesheet and e-mail a scanned image of same to the Contest Director, Mark Braunlich or another delegated to fill the CD role in the event that would be necessary.  Do NOT post your official times in this thread or elsewhere on HPA.
 
•   The three top placing competitors will be awarded modest trophies or plaques provided by myself.  All entrants are encouraged to engage in friendly competition, make new friends and above all: have fun.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on June 25, 2015, 09:26:30 PM
Some more progress on Duezio..........style and grace, totally absent  ;D

I think it looks great! It has it's own individual "style and grace". Where are you with respect to weight?

Went back and re-read the rules last night. Guess I just remembered wrong. With everything but the nose block attachment method and adding a snuffer tube, I still will try to stay as close to plan as possible. May not be particularly smart, but I suppose I just want to see if I can. There are several things in this one that will be a serious challenge, not the least of which being a very thin and dual tapered wing and stabilizer. Haven't looked that closely yet, but I think the center ribs and tip ribs are all that's shown. I'll need to figure out how I'm going to tackle the ones in between.

Got the prop blades carved and drilled. It works pretty well. Wire bending time is looming!   


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on June 26, 2015, 03:47:32 AM
       David, the weights so far are  Fuse 18 grams Wing 18 grams Tailplane and Fin 6 grams. Total 42 grams not brilliant but better than last years effort. Your prop looks great, nice workmanship.

       There are no prop details on the Duezio plan other than the blade shape, so "thinking like a teenager in the 60's" I found details of a similar model, Dwarf Dip, and will copy that.  I've carved the prop block to start with.

       


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on June 27, 2015, 06:42:51 PM
Solved the double tapered wing and stab problem (though you can't tell from the miserable pictures). Still can't figure out how to save a screen shot.

Flyace, if you do build this one, I'm finding that some of the wood sizes called for are going to require mountains of sawdust be made. I'm stripping wood for the stab tonight. Hope to start it tomorrow.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on June 27, 2015, 08:46:30 PM
Thanks CD I like my wood stripper too. I got a new one and plenty of no 11 blades. Thanks for the tip.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Hepcat on June 27, 2015, 10:17:32 PM
Response to #380.

cdw,
I am not a computer expert but on the matter of saving a screen shot; have you gone through the stages of: START>programs>accessories> snipping tool?  Or have you been through those stages and the problem comes later?
John


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on June 27, 2015, 10:46:08 PM
Response to #380.

cdw,
I am not a computer expert but on the matter of saving a screen shot; have you gone through the stages of: START>programs>accessories> snipping tool?  Or have you been through those stages and the problem comes later?
John

No, I haven't, but I'll give it a shot. Had NO idea where to even start. Thanks for the suggestion!

Best I could manage. May not be any better than before.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on July 01, 2015, 05:50:24 PM
I decided to put the stab off for a few days because of a sudden craving to build a fuselage. I feel like I need to beef the nose up somehow. Even though the longerons and stringers are glued into notches, it just doesn't seem to me to be enough glue area to keep the plywood plate where it I put it - or is my tendency to over build everything getting the best of me again?

CD


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on July 03, 2015, 04:41:58 PM
And, as some of you more experienced builders may have noticed from post # 378, my prop blades folded back in a most untidy way. Stirring what grey matter I have left, I decided to flip the hub front to rear. This is what you get... It may all be to do over again! :-\

CD


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: USch on July 03, 2015, 05:05:49 PM
your right, cd, the hub drawing from Aeromodeller is the wrong way round. Never trust anybody  ;)

Urs


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on July 04, 2015, 03:16:17 AM
Finally-a great mid winter's day in NZ (at least in the Wellington/Wairarapa region!) and finally a score to post-the Garter Knight performed as well as one expects from that inefficient prop-I flew 8 competition flights (5 for the postal and 3 with another better performing model for our National Decentralised Coupe event plus two test flights......and didn't break a single motor!   Maxed out in the NDC event as well-a really good day all round! Temp ranged from 52-56F over the morning. The other two are Graeme Lovejoy and Paul Squires....Graeme has a 'Nikolina' underway.....don't know if he'll complete it in time-still he's got two more months!

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'

 


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on July 04, 2015, 06:16:26 PM
Some great posts and photos here lately.  Thanks cd and Chris.  Keep them coming.  

Shame about the Nikolina prop hub cd.  Must be maddening.  You have run into the problem of mixing TAP and FAP on the same drawing.  In the USA, drawings are made with "Third Angle Projection".  In the UK and in most countries with metric standards, drawings are made with "First Angle Projection".  The Nikolina plan was drawn with a mix of both, very poor practice.  To understand what I'm talking about, look at the fuselage views.  The top projection of the fuselage is drawn under the side elevation; that's FAP.  If the fuselage had been drawn with TAP, the top projection would be above the side elevation.

The view of the propeller hub to the left of the side view of hub is actually the FRONT elevation of the hub.  The hub views were drawn with TAP  >:(.   The propeller blade is drawn with FAP.

Because of the international nature of manufacturing these days, most drawings for industry now state in the title block whether the drawing is drawn with Third Angle Projection or First Angle Projection.   With many modern CAD systems now automatically producing the various views from a three dimensional model, this type of drafting error is minimized.   You tell the program whether you want FAP or TAP and the views are correctly produced and placed.   In the 1960s they didn't have such niceties and errors such as this were common.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on July 04, 2015, 09:33:15 PM
I realize this is my first try at building a 2 blade folding prop, but this one has really kicked my butt! All day today (try #5) to cut another hub and carve 2 new props, both with new ply parts. This one folds right. Good heavens, what a gaggle!! :P


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on July 07, 2015, 10:49:35 AM
Probably been covered here before, but is Polyspan an acceptable covering?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on July 07, 2015, 02:18:15 PM
Probably been covered here before, but is Polyspan an acceptable covering?

cd, I'm not familiar with Polyspan, (probably should be but I'm notoriously "old school").   So, I'm going to say that if it's a tissue that you can adhere and finish with traditional methods like clear dope, then yes, it's  okay.  If it requires Balsaloc or similar and an iron to adhere it, then no. 



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on July 07, 2015, 03:20:34 PM
Hi Mark; I'd say yes. I apply it with dope, it looks exactly like tissue (unless you put it on upside down in which case it looks like a badly-shaved pig). You shrink it with an iron but you need to dope it.
Bill


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on July 07, 2015, 07:22:55 PM
The weight of Polyspan is much more than tissue so if weight is an issue you should think twice about using it.Just adding some food for thought.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on July 07, 2015, 07:46:12 PM
Mark, I was of the personal opinion that Polyspan would not be a rules violation, but wanted your blessing if I chose to go that route.

The weight of Polyspan is much more than tissue so if weight is an issue you should think twice about using it.Just adding some food for thought.

Bruce, my thoughts were to possibly cover the fuselage only, for durability's sake. But I'm straddling the fence on whether or not to use it just because of the added weight. I think I've got a reasonably light build going here, but I've thought that before and been shocked in the end. My gut feeling is to not give up one gram that I don't have to. Probably best to stay strictly with tissue.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on July 07, 2015, 08:07:26 PM
Charles,
Consider covering your fuselage with tissue and double covering the bottom only if the weight allows it.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 08, 2015, 07:56:48 AM
  Great to hear you finally got in some flights Chris and sound like good ones too.

  Prop blades and wire hub just about done, the blades seem to point in the right direction and fold back reasonably flush.

  Cold and damp here at night so I'll have to wait for the weekend to start covering, though the forecast isn't that good either.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on July 08, 2015, 05:49:54 PM
Yes it was a long time coming-this winter has been as wet and miserable as last year's so far-and we're not even half way through. Snow on the hills round Wellington and Upper Hutt today and snow forecast down to 100m-so last saturday was an unexpected oasis-and much appreciated by the four of us who went out to the FF site. I was rather shocked when 'processing' the model afterwards to find it clanging on the scales at 82g....sans rubber!  So it would have been 92g in flying order...ouch!   Under the circumstances I'm quite happy with the scores I recorded. Certainly I could improve the performance by using a better prop-but since i have plenty of Coupes -4 decent ones plus a still unsorted Burdov one-there's no need. I flew the William Beales design for our NDC event on the same day maxed out without too much effort-this is a good design and in my hands performs well-I've built two over the past 15 years.
   August is usually lambing time on the farm and the farmer isn't too keen on us flying then-so we are a bit limited-not to mention actually get ON can be a drama in winter anyway if there has been much rain-the ground is often too soft to drive in-and its not practical to walk in over a kilometre to the flightline from the access road. July is generally problematic due to rain and soft ground-June and September would normally offer the best options for flying in winter here-with June usually being a bit more settled than September-but June this year was a write off as regards flying weather...

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on July 11, 2015, 09:43:20 AM
Most of the wood work is done now. Plan call for a couple of gussets on each wingtip, then to round the tips. DT setup still needs to be done, and then there's that infernal "landing gear", or is it a take off gear? Does anyone know if it is supposed to be extended all of the time or if it's actuated after launch in some way? Is it even necessary to have it at all?  ???

I'm pretty happy with my weights on the individual components so far. Fuse is at 10 grams, wing is also 10 grams. The tail surfaces weigh 4 grams ( I did build up the fin instead of using sheet), and the assembled nose block with a good bit of excess wire hanging out of it weighs 17 grams - 41 grams all tolled.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on July 11, 2015, 10:20:58 AM
In that case I would definitely double cover the motor part of the fuselage - polyester tissue with tissue on top.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dosco on July 11, 2015, 11:33:53 AM
Most of the wood work is done now. Plan call for a couple of gussets on each wingtip, then to round the tips. DT setup still needs to be done, and then there's that infernal "landing gear", or is it a take off gear? Does anyone know if it is supposed to be extended all of the time or if it's actuated after launch in some way? Is it even necessary to have it at all?  ???

I'm pretty happy with my weights on the individual components so far. Fuse is at 10 grams, wing is also 10 grams. The tail surfaces weigh 4 grams ( I did build up the fin instead of using sheet), and the assembled nose block with a good bit of excess wire hanging out of it weighs 17 grams - 41 grams all tolled.

Nice bones. Very tasty.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on July 13, 2015, 10:22:36 PM
No landing gear is required since you can launch by hand even jumping is allowed to launch.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on July 14, 2015, 09:08:52 AM
Last year it turned out that the only plan of Guy Cognet's Coupe I had was from 70/71. I didn't realise till after I built it. So it didn't qualify under the rules.
I started cutting wood for a version of Pamela so I had something to fly this year.
But I was running out of time - and pretty busy at the moment.

Then at the last minute I am saved! I received by email in the last days some scans of the same model published in the French Modele Magazine in 1968.

Phew...  it's kind of the easy way out, I know. But now all I have to do is repair some tissue holes and I'm ready to go!

cheers
Tim


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on July 14, 2015, 04:19:43 PM
Nice save Tim!   :D


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 18, 2015, 04:57:30 AM
...........nearly done.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Oldtime Flyer on July 18, 2015, 05:52:10 PM
Great Looking Coupe!!

OTFer....


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on July 18, 2015, 06:43:00 PM
yes very pretty and looks to be well built,love the colors.Please let us know how she flies. 


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on July 18, 2015, 09:57:34 PM
I think this looks fine, real fine too

Allen


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on July 18, 2015, 11:31:31 PM
Really well finished Dave. Let me know when you're ready for some flying
cheers
Tim


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on July 19, 2015, 02:55:20 PM
Nice work on the Deuzio! Thought I was nearly done too 'til I looked at yours. I see a couple more things I need tend to...


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on July 19, 2015, 03:26:11 PM
Round these parts, that colour scheme is called camouflage!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: PeeTee on July 19, 2015, 03:30:43 PM
It blends in nicely with oil seed rape in flower (plus leaves). We don't have many (any) fluoro orange plants over here so that's my colour of choice ;D


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on July 19, 2015, 07:05:08 PM
All that's left is to bend and cut off the prop shaft, and find the CG and permanently fix the wing mount. I still intend to cut out and affix "Nikolina" on the right wing. It will end up being under the 70 grams required without rubber. As it sits - 64 grams.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Oldtime Flyer on July 19, 2015, 07:47:20 PM
All that's left is to bend and cut off the prop shaft, and find the CG and permanently fix the wing mount. I still intend to cut out and affix "Nikolina" on the right wing. It will end up being under the 70 grams required without rubber. As it sits - 64 grams.

Another great looking Coupe!

OTFer....


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 20, 2015, 07:15:32 AM
   Thanks for the nice comments Fellas! Good to hear you are under weight CD, looks very neat, like the purple,
 
   Now Gents, we don't usually have grass on our flying fields down here, only on our cricket pitches,  opposite to you  ;D (Bill this is a smiley face to suggest it's a joke)
 
   No doubt the fluoro colour would stand out but I didn't think that was a '60's thing, or can't I just remember!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on July 20, 2015, 08:09:08 AM
 
   No doubt the fluoro colour would stand out but I didn't think that was a '60's thing, or can't I just remember!
I remember spraying the tips of my 60s Coupe fluorescent. For some reason I must have thought optimistically it might fly more than 50 yards away.
I think all the grass on our cricket pitches has been worn away by the feet of English batsmen walking back to the pavilion, or Australians jumping about in celebration.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Pete Fardell on July 20, 2015, 05:03:27 PM
True, the Aussies scraped home by the small matter of 400 runs or so, but it's only one game. All square and still everything to play for!
(Anyway, cycling's our national Summer sport these days isn't it?)


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on July 21, 2015, 08:17:09 PM
Nikolina is finished. She ended up at 66 grams. After loading up 10 grams of 3/16 rubber, I took her out in the back yard for some test glides. The required 4 grams of (lead) ballast to be contest legal was finally placed about an inch behind the published CG. Glide is VERY good! Of course, I can never resist just a few turns, and 100 of them was almost a mistake. If it had cleared the tree line, which it almost did (it was climbing for it), it could have been bad.

 Never having been a fan of idle hands, and there being plenty of time left before December, I'm up for another one. Nikolina presented challenges, and I do like a challenge. Thinking of "Pamela", or possibly another, but with twin fins. Must have one with twin fins. ;D


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Hepcat on July 22, 2015, 05:13:04 AM
cdw,
I had reservations about the model before you started.  I feel I should apologise to the designer because I have to admit that your brilliant building skills make it look like a world beater.  Are the propeller blades laminated?

John


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on July 22, 2015, 06:44:43 AM
Well CD,
 that turned out to be a very nicely done Coupe I must admit. I really like that color scheme a lot too. Watch out tho if you try any more low power windup's before December. When the time comes to fly for the postal I wonder how big an area will be required since I will be using my Nikolina here in Texas probably near San Antonio as far as I know right now. You really have a very neat example to show us the way ahead on our project. Thank You very much. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) :P


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on July 22, 2015, 06:46:00 AM
Yeah - nice work.  :)


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on July 22, 2015, 10:08:24 AM
Thanks, everyone. I'm pretty sure that "brilliant" is an overstatement, but extremely nice of you to say. The prop blades are carved balsa block. Because of my ineptitude at covering compound curves, I decided one day to cover a prop in roughly 3/8" wide strips of tan tissue. The overlap gives the slightly darker color which, when doped, darkens up considerably. Not sure if it actually gives any extra strength like a single sheet would, but it gives a nice visual effect and it's better than nothing.  ;D

Flyace, I did some work for some very nice folks on the east bank of the Red River a while back who run a grass farm. Acres and acres of field with 4" of grass. I figure with the prevailing southwesterly winds we have here, it's the perfect place to fly. Of course, I still need to ask permission, but as I said, they are nice folks.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on July 22, 2015, 12:29:43 PM
Well CD grass farms rate high on my list of places to try to find. They can really turn out to be very satisfactory for our purposes. Good to know you have one nearby.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dosco on July 22, 2015, 12:51:48 PM
Nikolina is finished. She ended up at 66 grams. After loading up 10 grams of 3/16 rubber, I took her out in the back yard for some test glides. The required 4 grams of (lead) ballast to be contest legal was finally placed about an inch behind the published CG. Glide is VERY good! Of course, I can never resist just a few turns, and 100 of them was almost a mistake. If it had cleared the tree line, which it almost did (it was climbing for it), it could have been bad.

 Never having been a fan of idle hands, and there being plenty of time left before December, I'm up for another one. Nikolina presented challenges, and I do like a challenge. Thinking of "Pamela", or possibly another, but with twin fins. Must have one with twin fins. ;D

cd webb:
A beauty. Well done.

Cheers-
Dave


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Oldtime Flyer on July 24, 2015, 04:21:02 PM
Here's a small drawing of the Coupe design I'm going to build. A French design from 1967. Currently drawing full size plans.

OTF'er....


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on July 25, 2015, 10:34:28 AM
I spent the last couple of nights drawing up a plan of Dvorak's Coupe. I know I said that I wanted to build one with twin fins, but I really like the looks of this one. Even though it's supposed to be a 100 gram model, and the scan posted shows it built to 89 grams, I think I can do better than that. One thing I noticed, the airfoil on this one does not resemble the ones seen on most of the other plans I've looked at. Should I be concerned about that?

The one thing seriously lacking on the 3 view was propeller information. Only the shape from the front was shown so I'm going to have to "wing" it (so to speak).  ;)  I'll start with that first.



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on July 25, 2015, 09:51:59 PM
Dvorak's C d'H looks to be a variant of Drobek so I guess you could use this drawing for reference.
It shows prop details and a well delineated airfoil.

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on July 26, 2015, 04:32:14 PM
Dvorak's C d'H looks to be a variant of Drobek so I guess you could use this drawing for reference.
It shows prop details and a well delineated airfoil.

Sean


Thanks for the suggestion, Sean!




Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on July 26, 2015, 04:55:02 PM
This has all been presented already in earlier posts...


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: glidermaster on July 27, 2015, 02:45:56 PM
Interesting, I hadn't notice before, but in the last post, both of the drawings of the model show zero centre-section dihedral, whereas in the picture of the uncovered frame there clearly IS centre-section dihedral.

John


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on July 28, 2015, 03:28:09 AM
    Yes it's hard to see on the plan but there is a bent wing joiner (2deg.s I think) shown just above the rib drawings


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dosco on July 28, 2015, 08:36:17 AM
Interesting, I hadn't notice before, but in the last post, both of the drawings of the model show zero centre-section dihedral, whereas in the picture of the uncovered frame there clearly IS centre-section dihedral.

John

The isometric "cartoon" in the plan also appears to have a teeny bit of dihedral in the center joint ... but definitely not on the front view. Weird.

-Dave



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: USch on August 10, 2015, 11:49:12 AM
Hello Mark, can I jump on the bandwagon?

It's since last year that I follow this topic and I am tempted to build a '60 Coupe because it brings back so many pleasant memory's from younger age.
I will build the Auntie Freez' from Dave Linstrum. To me it has the right, modern appearance, sports a good airfoil, has a tube fuselage and, last but not least, I knew Dave and have good memory of him.

Before I start to build two questions. Can I divide the fuselage in motor tube and tail cone without breaking the rules? I just hate to remove a broken motor 13" down the motor tube.

Secondly, can I install a Tomy timer (if weight permits)? I know Tomy's were not born in the '60, but in Switzerland we did use a very light timer in these years. It was something like an old Tatone but much lightened (pity no one survived my frequent changes of homes). The question is put because here the use of DT fuse, even with snuffer tube, is not forbidden, but strongly recommended to not use it. OK, in winter there's no problem with dry grass, but I would like to fly the model all year round, maybe also in normal F1H competition.

Urs


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on August 10, 2015, 12:12:29 PM
Urs,

Yes to both questions.

Please post photos as you build....helps keep the interest rolling along.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: USch on August 29, 2015, 01:52:35 PM
Hi all,
Auntie Freez' is coming along silently. Tpl done, fin almost, wing ribs and spars cut with a bit of trouble. At least here you cannot find so small spruce strips. Having still some bigger sizes from long ago I had to cut them on my small circular saw, one came to 3x2mm, the other 3x1mm so just the right thing to put on top and bottom. Motor tube is in the oven to dry. Should do it till December, I hope  ::)

Urs


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: DerekMc on August 29, 2015, 05:21:37 PM
Iceman1007's plan for Batiuk's Coupe being printed. It's available on the Hip Pocket plans page. Turns out there is a large format printer at a UPS store not far from my house.
(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/derekmc777/bf1c636b2a1aa6384f06037ce9c5c8a5_zpsy1juonm9.jpg)

Anybody build this Coupe?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on August 31, 2015, 09:38:34 PM
There is one month left for getting your official flights logged if you're flying in the Southern Hemisphere.   You have through the end of September.

Thank you.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on September 05, 2015, 09:22:01 AM
Well the Sun, the moon and the planets aligned today and Tim and I got our flights in.
The forecast was good so we headed off the 90klms to the field where ScaleMasters is held
Tim had flown and trimmed his Guy Cognet over the past year and put in a few test flights but found a few problems nothing major but just annoying.
Duezio had not even had a test glide but trimmed out easily, a bit more incidence on the tailplane and all the downthrust removed.
By the time we were ready for our timed flights the breeze had picked up but it was still quite good. The air was strange in that there was lift about and sometimes the models would climb like a rocket then go straight into sink, loosing more height than they had gained. We both managed a few flights of nearly 3 minutes though most were around the 90 sec. mark with the breeze taking the models into the next paddock and at one stage nearly to the road. By the time we had each put in our 5 flights we were
both glad we did not have to fly another round.

Great morning Good flights and Good company


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: DerekMc on September 05, 2015, 12:15:12 PM
Nice planes and pictures!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on September 08, 2015, 05:38:47 AM
Dave was very polite about my ‘nothing major’ issues. The Guy Cognet has been flying well since last year. And very consistent. But it had one of those days where the Gremlins were at work. The test flights showed a bit of a stall on the glide. Some weight on the nose helped. But then the nose bearing started to make a grinding noise. I did what I could to track this down – and now think it may have been some of the grainy sand from the paddock resulting from an early stally-nose-dive landing.

Dave’s tests looked very good and he had a much better power climb – shorter than the Guy Cognet, but getting better height. It’s one or the other I guess! Anyway, testing done, we got down to work and wrote down our times.

But on the way home in the car the Gremlins were at it again... Somehow the detachable rear parcel shelf came detached. I guess that’s what it's for. Up front we heard a nasty ‘crack’. Dave commented: 'That didn't sound good'.

I didn’t want to look, so we kept going. When I opened the hatch we found that the shelf had fallen into the boot and partly crushed two models.

I am so glad they were mine and not Dave’s – I would have felt terrible.

We’ve had a lot of Winter this year – so the sun and warmer day was much appreciated. A great day to be outside and flying planes.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on September 09, 2015, 08:00:15 AM
Tim and Dave,
Score cards received here.  Glad you had a good day out flying in the sunshine.  Sorry about the shelf mishap afterwards.  I hope it's all repairable.

Thank you for the update and the great photos.

Any more scores coming in from down under, I wonder?

Cheers,



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on September 09, 2015, 06:06:38 PM
Yes-still have to send mine in-actually flown Jul 4......I  regretfully now have to refer to the model in the past tense as I lost it in a mega thermal 2 weeks ago.....we stopped timing at 10 minutes-it may come home-but somehow I doubt it-I have a particularly bad record for getting lost models returned from Carterton-leading me to suspect the honesty of the locals-and this is a pattern consistent over the past 30+ years for this site.

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on September 10, 2015, 03:28:40 AM
Yes Mark, two more scores from Melbourne.
Mike Glaister and I made our flights over several days in August,
but there were some missing signatures on my card.
I managed to catch up with the time keeper today.
I'll send scorecard images soon.
Mike flew a Duezio and I had The Dwarf Dip III.
No new pictures to show unfortunately.

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on September 23, 2015, 07:14:11 PM
One week left for those in the Southern Hemisphere who might wish to still fly.

Good luck to all!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on October 01, 2015, 01:01:24 PM
With the arrival of October, the competition window is closed for modelers in the Southern Hemisphere.  The window for those in the Northern Hemisphere will open Dec.1 and will run through the end of March 2016.  I have received time cards from four modelers/modellers in Australia and New Zealand.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on November 30, 2015, 12:49:44 PM
Greetings,
This is a reminder to all interested parties in the Northern Hemisphere that the window for official postal flying opens tomorrow, December 1st and runs through the end of March 2016.  Good luck to all entrants.  Photos, videos and reports are encouraged.

Thank you.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on December 12, 2015, 07:43:39 AM
I finished my My Coupe and it came in at 82g/72g ready to go. I am going to put a thread turbulator on the wing. I shall have it trimmed soon but probably no official flights until our season starts late February


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: calgoddard on December 12, 2015, 10:36:54 AM
Gorgeous!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on December 12, 2015, 10:50:24 AM
Gorgeous!

It is that! I'm betting you'll appreciate the stand-out colors when it's tracking time. Forethought  I should have had...

Do you have any close-ups of the front end?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on December 12, 2015, 01:04:23 PM
Gorgeous!

Do you have any close-ups of the front end?
Well thank you, but a low-res photo helps a lot. In particular, I had a lot of blushing when doping, even when I did it indoors in a warm house. It's nearly all gone but some remains on the red. The fluorescent does not photograph well but I'm a big fan, and is the first thing I see when retrieving. I was told it was heavy so I weighed it - it added nearly 2g so I will omit the tailplane next time.
The front end is entirely standard bent-wire. I wrapped the nose with a few turns of Kevlar thread because the previous model burst apart. I also prefer the non-outrigger blades because the latter bend easily as you can see. Another thing I was told is that outrigger blades may be left to drift in the breeze but I had a couple of dive-ins so I modified the Baron Knight blades for a positive fold.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: USch on January 02, 2016, 12:57:15 PM
Here some photos to show I did not chicken out.

Model is 98% finished, that means I still have to do a 20% to have it flying  ;D

As on the drawing there is no mention of CG I did not yet glue the pylon in position and will try at least some hand launches to find a decent CG with a SSM of about 50% to have less problems in the climb. Hope that helps  ???

Urs


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: DerekMc on January 02, 2016, 01:40:52 PM
Nicely done! Worth a kudo for sure.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: USch on January 02, 2016, 01:45:08 PM
Thanks Derek !!!
Maybe you should have waited till it fly's, or not  ??? ;)

Urs


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on March 01, 2016, 04:26:33 PM
A reminder that 31 March 2016 is the last day for logging official flights in the Northern Hemisphere in this postal competition.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on March 01, 2016, 04:52:31 PM
A reminder that 31 March 2016 is the last day for logging official flights in the Northern Hemisphere in this postal competition.
Thanks Mark. Waiting patiently for some decent weather but it has been windy forever.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on March 01, 2016, 06:08:46 PM
Thanks for the reminder. Will try real hard to get my flights done before the deadline. We lost a big field so time will tell.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on March 03, 2016, 12:04:29 PM
We had one relatively good day today so I went out, because I shall be hors de combat the rest of this month.
My My Coupe was untrimmed apart from a glide test in the park but everything was straight so I just set it up (right/left) like the Baron Knight, which is essentially  the same model. One test flight looked reasonable so I just went for it - it was too cold to mess about - with predictable results! By the final flight, it was going well and maxed. I'll send the times off to Mark - they'll give him a laugh. But it looks a good model.
The picture doesn't really show how cold we were.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on March 09, 2016, 12:45:43 PM
It's a little late in the game for this year, but here's another Coupe plan (Tyra)  from Aeromodeller, July of 1967. Wingspan is quoted at 39". Algy2 posted this reduced plan and article in June, 2011. I have scaled a pdf to the called for 39" and restored some of the more faded lines.  File size is 3.4megs and I have no way to reduce it further. Maybe someone else can manage it? Anyway, the point is, it's another qualifying Coupe plan from the 60's that is available should anyone want one.

David



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on March 09, 2016, 02:49:32 PM
Things are just not working out for me to participate in this contest event this year. I will try to be ready for the next chance if we can get it together.

I like the category and postal competition.

Keep trying to do the event.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on March 09, 2016, 10:45:34 PM
We have three of us looking to fly if the weather lets us.Two My Coupe's and an Auntie Freeze that was built 52 years ago for a postal team contest.Lots of wind and rain this year.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on March 21, 2016, 02:36:06 PM
10 days left.....get your flights in please.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: G GRELL on March 24, 2016, 10:47:18 PM
This Auntie Freez was built some 50 years ago for a team postal contest. The team of Robert Stalick and Albert Grell placed 4th in April 1967. After 45 some years and very little repair it trimmed out in 2 or 3 flights and I have flown it in this year’s postal contest.
Glenn


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: G GRELL on March 24, 2016, 11:01:31 PM
The Auntie Freez was built by my father Albert Grell and I have flown it in his memory
Glenn


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Rewinged on March 25, 2016, 01:58:41 AM
Hi Glenn.

That's very cool that you were able to do that, and amazing that it was in such good trim.  (Or you trim amazingly quick!)

Nice looking plane.  Amazing how much it looks like a typical P-30 except for the prop.

Regards,
Bill


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: USch on March 28, 2016, 05:49:19 PM
Easter Monday, finally I convinced myself to go out flying! Not that we had a particular bad winter, it was windy and wet, but the biggest problem was that I did not have the drive to go out flying. Also because right now there is no FFlyer left in the aerea, only RC, and going out to the flying field without buddy is no fun.

Anyway, of course this morning it was raining, but having fixed with a friend with a large landing strip in front of his house I could no more jump out. On arrival at my friends home he opened a bottle of Chianti to comfort me about the rain  :) , then we had dinner and in the afternoon it finally stopped raining so we hurried out for some flying. Actually, more than flying it was a trimming session, being it the first time Auntie Freez got some air under his wings. Certainly the wind was exactly across the landing strip, so I had only about 150m useful space to fly in. I got up to 200 turns (on 10 strands of 1/8") and on the third trim flight I hit a electric pole at the end of the field. End of session  :(

Happily we got 3 timed flights and called it a day. The model has potential and seems quite easy to trim, time will tell. Anna got a few pictures of the young pilot and his timekeeper  ;D

Urs 


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: sweepettelee on March 29, 2016, 12:54:49 PM
Glad you got up the Chianti urge to get in some trimmers of that beaut Coupe. 
Have some more nips of those grape pressing to regenerate courage & relax you whilst repairing any damage done by the collision!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on March 29, 2016, 01:48:25 PM
Wine, dinner, no overcoats. That´s my kind of winter!
Who was building the Nikolina? I´d like to know how it flies. It was in my very first Aeromodeller December 1964, which set me on this path to perdition. I think the plan was paired with Hepcat´s Gigi, which I built and lost at sea.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: USch on March 29, 2016, 01:54:05 PM
Thanks Leeper for the kind words!
Of course each time we nipped on the glas we drunk to the health of the whole FF community worldwide  :D and the more we got down the louder was the cheering.

Urs

PS: not much damage done, just a small crack at a dihedral break, I am already at it to fix it.
It's real fun to get back nearly 50 years and fly once again the same category of models.

Bill, that's not a Nicolina, it's a Aunti Freez' from Dave Linstrum. It seems very easy to trim, but I will report again when I got more flights with it. From the short flights done I would say it has a remarkable glide.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: PeeTee on March 29, 2016, 01:58:00 PM
Urs

It all looks extremely civilised. Did you recuperate afterwards with a caffe corretto or two ;)

Peter


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on March 29, 2016, 02:02:03 PM


Bill, that's not a Nicolina, it's a Aunti Freez' from Dave Linstrum.
Hi Urs. I wasn´t clear - someone else was building a Nikolina and I couldn´t remember who


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on March 29, 2016, 04:20:54 PM
I plan to build a Nikolina for the next go at this postal contest.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: USch on March 29, 2016, 04:58:18 PM
Well guys, I see your more interested in the gastronomic side of the talk, should I start a new topic  ??? focusing on wine and food  ::)

Urs


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on March 29, 2016, 05:42:22 PM


Bill, that's not a Nicolina, it's a Aunti Freez' from Dave Linstrum.
Hi Urs. I wasn´t clear - someone else was building a Nikolina and I couldn´t remember who

I built the Nikolina, Bill. But, true to form, I haven't even set about trimming yet. I'm very much ashamed... :-[  It does have a killer glide, but past that I still can't say.

David


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on April 01, 2016, 08:43:00 PM
Hello everyone!
The 2015-2016 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal is complete with eight modelers / modellers taking part.  My thanks go out to the entrants (in no particular order):

Tim Hayward-Brown (AUS)
Bill Dennis (UK)
Urs Schaller (IT)
Chris Murphy (NZ)
Sean O'Connor (AUS)
Glenn Grell (USA)
Mike Glaister (AUS)
Dave Putterill (AUS)

I would also like to thank the timers who assisted.

I will have scores and standings in a day or two.  We're having some internet connection problems here so please be patient.

Mark Braunlich
 


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on April 02, 2016, 04:24:37 PM
Drum roll please....

Results of the 2015/2016 1960s Coupe d’Hiver Postal Contest

1st           Sean O'Connor          AUS   Dwarf Dip III       97  120  120  120  120 = 577
2nd          Mike Glaister            AUS   Deuzio              120   80  120  120  120 = 560
3rd           Glenn Grell              USA   Auntie Freeze     120  120   62  120  120 = 542
4th           Dave Putterill           AUS   Deuzio              103  120   96  120   53  = 492
5th           Chris Murphy             NZ   Baron Knight II    72   106   76   93   95  = 442
6th           Tim Harward-Brown  AUS   Guy Cognet        109   69    82  120  53  = 433
7th           Bill Dennis                UK    My Coupe           73   102   65   39  120 = 399
8th           Urs Schaller              IT     Auntie Freeze      32    39    46    -    -   = 117

Congratulations once again to Sean O'Connor with his Dwarf Dip III ! (insert hardy round of applause)

Plaques are being prepared for those placing 1st, 2nd and 3rd.  They will be mailed out in a couple of weeks.

As interest is (slowly) growing in this postal, I will undertake to direct it again for 2016-2017.   That means that those in the Southern Hemisphere can start official flights with old or new models on
1 June, 2016.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on April 02, 2016, 06:20:05 PM
Big round of applause for Mark....................................................Thank you

Well done once again, your efforts are appreciated and as usual I enjoyed "getting out of my comfort zone" to build and fly this type of model.

Surprised at the amount of interest but still low numbers of actual flyers, though double last years, would be nice to double it next time.

Once again thanks for your efforts Mark.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on April 03, 2016, 03:19:30 AM
Yes, thanks once again Mark, and congratulations to all who built and flew.
I´m glad you are running it again but I shall be using my same model which should be trimmed by next winter! I might have to holiday in the Florida winter this time.
Bill


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: G GRELL on April 03, 2016, 08:05:25 PM
Thank you to Mark for running the postal contest and congratulations to all who flew. It was a great thrill to me to be able to fly the same Auntie Freez  that my father built some 52 years ago for a postal contest.
Glenn


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on April 04, 2016, 12:37:46 AM
I'd like to second Dave's remarks (and those of Bill and Glen)
Thank you Mark for your organisation and decision to continue for another year.

I am surprised and of course pleased to see that I got the highest score once again.

I'd like to point out that Mike Glaister's Deuzio weighs in at 92 gm without rubber, so it's effectively a 100gm coupe.
Never the less it's a fine stable flyer easily able to max in neutral conditions.
Mike was unlucky to pick worse air on his duff flight, than I did on my mine.
So if you want to participate in the next round, and don't have a favourite, try Deuzio!

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: USch on April 04, 2016, 02:42:53 PM
Thank you Mark for your effort to run this postal competition !!! And compliments to the winner and all other participants.
Building the model and flying it (little) brought back many nice memory's and I am only sorry that I could not convince others to join in.

Now, personally speaking, it is not easy to become last, so I will try hard next year to equal my performance once more  ;D

Urs


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on April 04, 2016, 04:51:44 PM
Drum roll please....

Results of the 2015/2016 1960s Coupe d’Hiver Postal Contest

1st           Sean O'Connor          AUS   Dwarf Dip III       97  120  120  120  120 = 577
2nd          Mike Glaister            AUS   Deuzio              120   80  120  120  120 = 560
3rd           Glenn Grell              USA   Auntie Freeze     120  120   62  120  120 = 542
4th           Dave Putterill           AUS   Deuzio              103  120   96  120   53  = 492
5th           Chris Murphy             NZ   Baron Knight II    72   106   76   93   95  = 442
6th           Tim Harward-Brown  AUS   Guy Cognet        109   69    82  120  53  = 433
7th           Bill Dennis                UK    My Coupe           73   102   65   39  120 = 399
8th           Urs Schaller              IT     Auntie Freeze      32    39    46    -    -   = 117

Congratulations once again to Sean O'Connor with his Dwarf Dip III ! (insert hardy round of applause)

Plaques are being prepared for those placing 1st, 2nd and 3rd.  They will be mailed out in a couple of weeks.

As interest is (slowly) growing in this postal, I will undertake to direct it again for 2016-2017.   That means that those in the Southern Hemisphere can start official flights with old or new models on
1 June, 2016.

...I'll have to build a new one anyway=the Baron Knight was taken by Hung about a month after I recorded my flight times for the postal-and joins the long list of models I've lost at Carterton over the past 33 years.....pity really after only getting it back a year or so back (see early in this thread)

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on April 05, 2016, 01:26:28 AM
Chris, I´d be interested to hear about your experience with the single blade prop.The original article gave it a 20 second run but I did not find that to be so


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on April 05, 2016, 03:56:13 AM
Bill I think the prop was the weakest part of the whole design (performance wise not structurally!)-too little area, too little pitch. Very early on in the original model's life I went to a 2 bladed setup (but reverted to 'as plan' for the Postal-you will recall that it was a mongrel model with a 30+ year old set of flying surfaces, a new built fuselage and a new-old prop assembly. I generally use Champion Coupe blades on all my coupes these days.....and since these (the blades) are a barefaced swipe of Bob White's Coupe prop design....they can't be that bad!  I have a few ideas for 'genetic engineering' on them-ideas Mr Woodhouse would no doubt be familiar with and approve of....involving rohacell and carbon cloth...I imagine you can guess where this is going...time and inclination however.....

 Chris


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on April 05, 2016, 04:06:43 AM
Thanks Chris - yes, as I have said before, my BK was transformed with two proper blades.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on April 05, 2016, 03:56:28 PM
Congratulations are in order for all of you who put one together and got them flying. I will try desperately to join in on next years go for this event.

Thanks are in order to Mark for hosting the contest.

flyace in San Antonio,Tx


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: USch on April 06, 2016, 06:33:37 AM
Come on Flyace, get'em building. You have lot's of time ahead  ;D
The more, the better.

Urs


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on April 06, 2016, 01:30:11 PM
Thanks for the encouragement Urs. I will build the Nikolina and perhaps an Auntie Freeze. Don't have a big flying field but will travel to a contest in order to have a large area to have a go. I have built a coupe back a few years but it was too new for this contest. I built the Fludy Coupe designed by George Perryman and kitted by Campbells Custom Kits. I do have the Souper Coupe designed by Lee Campbell short kit. Boy it has a big plan for it. Guess I better close for now. Everybody have a nice day.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: cd_webb on April 06, 2016, 06:56:11 PM
I'd like to add my thanks to Mark as well, and compliments to all who flew. I wish I could come up with an acceptable excuse for my lack participation in the '15 - '16 contest, but if it kills me I'll be involved in next year's (in spite of the guarantee of embarrassing scores) .

Even though the "new" hasn't been worn off the Nikolina yet, at some point this fall, the plan is to build another small coupe. This one will be from a "Flying Models" article from September of 1967. Joe Bilgri's "Mini".  


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on April 13, 2016, 09:32:51 PM
If Sean O'Connor, Mike Glaister and Glenn Grell will PM me and give me your mailing address, I can send out the plaques.  They are ready to go.

Thank you,
Mark


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on May 02, 2016, 05:12:16 PM
Just a reminder that for those living south of the equator, the 2016-2017 1960s Coupe d'Hiver postal begins on 1 June and runs through the end of September.

Also, there's been some good discussion on C d'H trim here:  http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=20742.0



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on May 09, 2016, 03:06:48 PM
Please read:

1960s Winter Cup Postal Rules

     •   Dates of the Third competition:  In keeping with the spirit of a winter free flight event, those living in the Southern Hemisphere will fly June-Sept, 2016.   Those living in the Northern Hemisphere will fly in Dec, 2016 through March, 2017.  Models may be flown on more than one day during the allotted time spans.

     •   Models must be built from plans or 3-views published between January, 1960 and December, 1969 (inclusive).    Earlier models that were published in the 1960s may   be flown.  Models designed in the 1960s that were not published until later may not be flown in this competition.

     •   In the event that models are built to small 3-views lacking detail or clarity, the competitor is allowed to improvise for the missing details but the model should be completed with 1960s’ technology and materials.  Models must not be “modernized” with materials that were not in common use in that decade.  For example, covering should be tissue paper, Silkspan or Modelspan.

     •   Each competitor is responsible for being able to prove, if challenged, that the model in question was published in the 1960s time frame.  It is suggested that such documentation be in hand before any given model is constructed for this competition.
 
     •   Models must not include VIT, folding wings, or other functions and materials common in modern F1G practice. (No carbon fiber, Kevlar, Mylar)

     •   The D/T function should, if possible, be provided with whatever was used on the original for the timing function.  A mechanical timer may only be used if there is shown to exist, documentation that such a timer is appropriate to the airframe in question during the 1960s or if a burning fuse type is illegal in your locale.  Viscous timers are also permitted.

     •   Models originally designed for 90gram airframes with 10gram motors may be lightened for this competition.
 
     •   Each competitor may fly up to (3) three models but may enter only once.

     •   Models must weigh in excess of 70.0 grams less motor.

     •   Maximum weight of the motor lubricated is 10.0 grams.

     •   Each competitor is on their honor to fly a model to the weight requirements.  The timesheet shall include an initialed statement that the weight of the airframe and the    motor(s) used in the official flights meet the weight requirements.

     •   Models shall be hand launched.   Jumping is allowed.

     •   Each competitor is entitled to (5) five official flights with a maximum of 120 seconds for each official flight.

     •   Each competitor shall declare to his/her timekeeper that an official flight is being attempted.
 
     •   The timekeeper shall record the duration of the first attempt of the official flight unless the flight is unsuccessful.

     •   An unsuccessful attempt shall be any flight of less than 20 seconds.

     •   A second unsuccessful attempt at the official flight shall be recorded as a zero time flight.

     •   The timekeeper should be positioned near the point of launching and may not follow the model.

     •   If (5) five maxes are recorded by a competitor, additional official flight(s) shall be flown with maximum flight duration increasing in 30 second increments, 150, 180, 210, 240 seconds, etc.

     •   The competitor and timekeeper shall sign their time-sheet and e-mail a scanned image of same to the Contest Director, Mark Braunlich or another delegated to fill the CD role in the event that would be necessary.  Do NOT post your official times in this thread or elsewhere on HPA.
 
     •   The three top placing competitors will be awarded modest plaques provided by myself.  All entrants are encouraged to engage in friendly competition, make new    s friends and above all: have fun.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on May 31, 2016, 09:35:18 AM
The competition window for the Third (2016-2017) 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal opens at midnight (your local time) for all competitors south of the equator.  The Southern Hemisphere window runs from 1 June through 30 September, 2016.

Competitors north of the equator will fly 1 December 2016 through 31 March 2017.

Good luck to all fliers and assistants.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on June 09, 2016, 09:18:00 AM
I was pleased that my My Coupe placed second at the UK Nats. Pleased because it is old fashioned and made out of wood and tissue. I have developed my thermal detecting skills to a fine degree. I wind up the model, face the wind and when it feels a bit warmer than it was, I chuck it. Alternatively I wait until Ivan waves at me to go from the hot dog van upwind.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: D/T on June 09, 2016, 10:32:32 AM
Bill
I saw some of your flights, being near your launch area and you flew well in tricky conditions, and also wisely got them in before the wind increased even more. And I like wood and tissue!
Don


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on July 04, 2016, 06:02:46 PM
Well having lost the resurrected Baron Knight to Hung as detailed above I'm going to try and get something built in a hurry before Sept 30.....by a process of elimination (or Hobson's choice!) it will have to be the 'Deuzio' since I have the full size plan courtesy the December 1969 issue of Aeromodeller. I'll set myself a target of having it built by the end of July, trimmed by the end of August and times by the end of September!......there's a LOT of wood in it-so I'm going to have to be very fussy with the wood selection....the AM plan gives zero info about the prop other than the blade shape-fortunately in an earlier 1969 issue there's report of the French Coupe international that it won, and mentions the prop as 400 x 480.....a bit low in P/D by modern standards-but at least I can now replicate it....

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'

 PS Pics will follow when there has been sufficient progress to justify them....!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on July 05, 2016, 02:23:14 AM
Chris, was it a 80g or 100g model?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on July 05, 2016, 05:54:59 AM
Chris, was it a 80g or 100g model?

 Bill-it's not entirely clear. The event was the 1969 Coupe d'Hiver International held at Chavenay, France Feb 23rd 1969. The contest report-by John O'Donnell- was published in the May issue of AM (p235-7)-whether John was responsible for the subsequent publication of the full size plan of the Deuzio in the Dec 69 issue I couldn't say-it does use 'anglicised' material sizes whereas if it was of french origin I would expect metric sizes. .....but JOD may well have measured the winning model and noted all the details-he was renowned for this sort of thing after all.
     I'm inclined to think it was an 80g class as the contest report makes no mention of multiple classes being flown....

     Chris


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: D/T on July 05, 2016, 11:10:58 AM
It is clear, the Deuzio plan states "80g min total weight".
Cheers
Don


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on July 05, 2016, 11:21:53 AM
Ah. Well good luck with that!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on July 05, 2016, 03:48:07 PM
Just spoke to John, and it was a 80g contest and model


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on July 05, 2016, 05:11:30 PM
It is clear, the Deuzio plan states "80g min total weight".
Cheers
Don

 Quite right you are too Don-I don't know how I missed that-its quite clearly there in black and white!..........probably because I was fixated on the lack of adequate prop and noseblock information on the plan....and looking for more info elsewhere.

 chrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on September 01, 2016, 10:43:24 AM
One month left for those living in the Southern Hemisphere to get your official flights recorded.  

Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more, say no more!  ;)  (He said, knowingly)


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on September 01, 2016, 04:49:43 PM
I'll do my best-it all depends on whether I can cover the beast below, trim and record some scores before the end of the month. this is the 'Deuzio' as intimated in post #494 above---except that rather than being finished by the end of July as I'd planned it was only completed yesterday-so I'm running a month behind schedule...

 ChrisM
'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: calgoddard on September 01, 2016, 07:13:39 PM
Gorgeous coupe. Wish I could build as well as you.

What are the pitch and diameter of the prop?

Can't wait to see pictures of this model covered. 


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on September 01, 2016, 10:39:25 PM
about 400mm x 450mm (it IS a French design after all.....)....give me a week or so and you'll see it covered. I'd prefer a bit more pitch myself-(around 1.25 P/D rather than the 1.125 it has)-but we are supposed to build as per the original. The only aspect I'm unsure of is the hub-there is no info on the plan and the published photos provide no clue due to the lack of definition. I'd liked to have done a skew hinge for closer folding against the fuselage-but lacking the info whether the original used one, I opted for a simple Z-bar hub assembly.
   I shall cogitate tonight over a suitable colour scheme before attacking it over what is shaping up to be a wet miserable weekend.

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'

 PS As you see it naked above it clocks in at 73.0g.....I'm hoping I can keep it 80g or less covered....


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on September 02, 2016, 04:19:25 AM
Hi Chris, I built the Duezio last year and as there were no clear details of the prop setup, in accordance with Marks rules, I used the detailed info on the Dwarf Dip plan. So I guess you could find a prop set up you like that was published in the period and use that.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: calgoddard on September 02, 2016, 02:51:53 PM
Is that the knob of a TOMY timer I see?

I am referring to the last two pictures in Reply #502.

I guess with the vintage rules (I have not read them) perhaps it is the end of a snuffer tube?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on September 02, 2016, 04:40:20 PM
Nope-its a knob on the end of the rubber peg. If you've ever tried to remove a small diameter tight fitting rear peg with rubber lubricant on your fingers-then you'll appreciate having a solid knob to grip and turn. All my rubber models (with the exception of Peanuts) are so fitted-obviously the size and obtrusiveness of the knob will vary depending on the class. The OD of the knob is knurled-usually diamond pattern-to improve the grip. The Deuzio will have a conventional tail mounted fuse DT setup-in keeping with the contest rules. The snuffer tube will be attached after covering is completed.

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: calgoddard on September 02, 2016, 05:19:29 PM
Neat idea - putting a knurled knob on the end of the rubber peg.

I forgot that the hook-to-peg distance on a coupe is typically about nine inches so clearly I forgot that the motor peg on your model is about where it should be.  Sorry, in the U.S. we are still stuck with inches and ounces, although we use metric and imperial measurements together quite frequently.

I wind my couples outside the fuselage using a half-tube system.  So the motor peg is only put in place once.  I am not sure this is allowed under your postal rules.

I have always wondered how a tail mounted fuse does not alter the CG as it burns, especially when your model has a very long tail moment.  

Where I fly fuse DTs are not legal due to alleged fire danger. So we use viscous timer buttons (very inaccurate), TOMY timers (more accurate but heavy), TEXAS scroll timers (accurate and heavy), and electronic timers (very accurate, not too heavy, but a little pricey at $40-50 U.S.).


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on September 02, 2016, 08:06:06 PM
calgoddard:
(1)
I've been using the knurled knob idea for about a decade or more-having a lathe it is no problem turning one up-they are all Delrin. Part of it is also driven by the fact that I use C/F tubing extensively (though not exclusively) for rear pegs-and if you have a sticking rear peg that is C/F then gripping it with pliers to extract is a REALLY bad idea-sufficient grip to turn it usually splits/crushes it-hence the alternative approach of a knurled knob....most of mine are interference fits on the tubing, using the lathe tailstock as a ram to press home the tubing (supported in the tailstock chuck) into the fractionally undersized hole in the knob.

(2).....actually there are two motor peg positions in the Deuzio-visible in the photo-and exactly as detailed on the plan. Presumably the designer played around with motor strandage a bit. The two positions work out at 8" and 10" from the nose former respectively-and incidentally a 1/8" SS motor made up to the specified 14 strands comes out at 10".....so I assume the shorter peg location may have been used for 1/4" motors-which a lot of early Coupes used. 14 strands my my standards is a fairly brutal motor for a coupe-and may well reflect the quality of rubber they had back then-which would have been Pirelli only in 1969 [I'm fairly sure Dunlop rubber was off the market by then]-modern rubber on the same strandage may prove too powerful-and possibly too short in the run for the optimum performance. I'm quite prepared to strand down to 12, 11 or even 10 strands-I usually run 12 strands of 1/8" in my other Coupes

(3) ....I've seen the half tube system in use-Paul Squires who I fly with frequently uses it-but I'm well equipped with blast tubes-and in fact use them in the 'cartridge' system pioneered by the Croydon club.....and you need another stooge if you're using the half tube system-more claggage to cart round.

(4) technically you're right-a tail mounted fuse does alter the CG.....but we've been putting them there for ...now lets see....about the last 70+ years or so.....so you'd think if there was a CG issue it might have showed up by now.....and 2 mins worth of DT fuse positively thuds on to my accurate scales at a resounding 0.15g [I just cut and weighed a piece to check!] 

(5) I'm glad you said 'alleged' fire danger-I accept there are certain countries/states (Australia, California) where the wild fire risk is such that fuse is banned-absolutely permanently in Australia (can't speak for CA) but my opinion is the risk is vastly overstated. I have tried setting grass on fire with fuse in controlled experiments-and in a NZ summer the grass gets pretty damn dry, believe me-without success. No one has ever been able to point to a verified example (in NZ) of a fire started by DT fuse-despite all the 'urban modelling myth'-when you grill them its always "well I heard that...'  or 'so and so said that.....'  -you can never track down any actual witnesses. Personally my standard of proof for this allegation requires a fuse carrying  model to been seen to glide in or DT and a fire break out at the exact same spot with in 15 minutes...

(6) I've never had much joy of viscous timers, mixed blessing with Tomys, and am now in the process of adopting electronic ones...there is quite a learning curve with these-and no two types seem the same when it comes to programming!

   ChrisM
   'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: calgoddard on September 03, 2016, 10:08:44 AM
Chris -

Great info. Thanks for taking the time to write it up.

Yeah, you hit it exactly in regard to fuses.  Folks still fly with them here and I have never seen any fires started by a free flight airplane with a fuse. We have plenty of dry grass.

Here is what the sheriff reads to the poor guy that gets caught using a fuse on his F1G, P-30, OTR, or other free flight model airplane in California:

"SEC. 96.1.305.5. ROCKETS, MODEL AIRCRAFT AND SIMILAR DEVICES.
 
Section 305.5 is added to the California Fire Code to read:
 
Sec. 305.5 Rockets, model aircraft and similar devices. Rockets, model airplanes,
gliders and balloons powered with an engine, propellant or other feature liable to start or
cause a fire shall not be projected into or across hazardous fire areas without prior
approval of the fire code official."  


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: D/T on September 04, 2016, 05:55:17 AM
Re Reply #509:
Quote
[/(3) ....I've seen the half tube system in use-Paul Squires who I fly with frequently uses it-but I'm well equipped with blast tubes-and in fact use them in the 'cartridge' system pioneered by the Croydon club.....and you need another stooge if you're using the half tube system-more claggage to cart round.
quote]

As a current Croydon member, it is nice that Croydon still receives a credit from ffkiwi for the cartridge system developed 40+ years ago. Incidentally, the cartridge system is easily used for out-of-model winding, just make 2 holes at the front of the cartridge tube for a hold pin for the wound motor. Only 1 stooge is needed, as the wound cartridge has to be installed in the model when out of the stooge, to install the rear peg. The model is then placed in the stooge to remove the blast tube and install the prop. Personally, I usually prefer the less fuss of the basic cartridge system, if the fuselage is robust.

Good luck with the Deuzio.

Don


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on September 22, 2016, 10:05:46 AM
A little more than a week left to get official flight scores recorded for those in the Southern Hemisphere.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on September 30, 2016, 09:27:52 AM
The window for recording official flights in the Southern Hemisphere closes at midnight for your local time zone.   No scores have have so far been received in the last four months.

Mark


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on October 01, 2016, 12:15:10 AM
Mark, I got my arm out of the sling on Wednesday and was hoping to get in some short flights at my small field on Friday just to keep up the numbers. However South Australia was hit by the worst storms in fifty years during the week, including a state wide blackout, besides keeping an eye on the almost flooded creek along side our house the weather was totally unflyable.

I'm pretty sure a couple of our Victorian Mates have recorded some good times though.

I'm at lest ready for next year.

Good luck to all those that enter.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: RayE on October 01, 2016, 03:46:21 PM
Here's a pic of my Joe Bilgri "Mini" which I started building a couple of weeks ago. Still to make prop hub and wing mount. Another couple of weeks should see it finished, in plenty of time for the Northern Hemisphere season.

D/T is also having a go. He's building a George Batiuk design.

Ray


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on October 03, 2016, 10:43:42 AM
Dave.
Glad to hear you're on the rebound from the shoulder surgery.  Best wishes and thanks for checking in.

Ray,
Nice bones!  Good luck with the covering and other remaining bits.

BTW, does anyone know if Ed Dolby's ORANGE PEEL coupe was published anywhere in the Sixties?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: D/T on October 03, 2016, 01:44:41 PM
I finally felt I had to have a go at the Postal, after following this thread throughout. As RayE indicated in #515, I have a Geo. Batiuk coupe on the board, from the VTO sketch in this thread. I liked the multispar wing and aerofoil, not common on coupes, (perhaps will find out why), and, critically, the fact that its rectangular section fuselage fits my fixed width winding jig. It is not as far on as RayE's, but I will post a pic when it is more complete.

Don


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on October 03, 2016, 08:05:03 PM
I plan to start my Nikolina construction probably this Thursday. Sure want to have it done and maybe flown during the winter here in Texas. Time will tell.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on October 10, 2016, 11:11:57 PM
Southern Hemishpere Entries

As Dave P hinted above, we here in Victoria have made some flights for the 60s C d'H postal comp.
I've just submitted the scores to Mark with a summary of our activities.

Non modelling activities have absorbed most of my energy this winter so I've been silent here on HPA.
But due to the incentive provided by Mark's competition, I have done quite a lot of flying.

Our flying site has its limitations, but its only an hour from the city,
so we can easily go out when the weather forecast indicates it might be worthwhile.
I think we made 6 trips with 60's C d'H activity as the objective and we missed two other good days due to real life obligations.

I made my flights on a couple of nice days in August using the DDIII again,
but Mike kept fiddling with a new Deuzio until the end of September.
Luckily Friday the 23rd was very free flight friendly so he bit the bullet and flew.
The old Deuzio ended in the top of a tree on the second flight,
however the new model was in good enough trim for the remaining flights.
Weather over the weekend was terrible, but Monday was nice again so we went back to finish off.
We found the treed model on the ground so elaborate preparations to get it down, were not tested.

Thanks to Mark for instigating all the fun.

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on October 13, 2016, 11:26:05 AM
Thanks for the update Sean.  Any pics?

I'd like to see pics from anyone participating.  Models on the bench or in the field; helps keep the level of enthusiasm up, necessary to keep this event alive.




Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on October 13, 2016, 03:36:02 PM
I'll send some pics of the Deuzio in its finished form-weather permitting it will have its maiden flights this coming sunday...

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: RayE on October 16, 2016, 12:53:24 PM
Further to my reply #515 above, herewith is a pic of my completed Bilgri Mini. Weight including S hook, rear peg and tracker is 65.5 g so it needs 4.5 g of ballast.

All I need now is a nice calm day to do some trimming.

Ray


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on October 23, 2016, 02:27:49 PM
Message from Gavin Manion, organiser of the Birmingham Coupe meeting (UK):

"At La Grande Coupe de Birmingham on December 4th competitors can use the opportunity to "double-up" with Mark Braunlich's 1960's Coupe postal. If they declare an eligible model to the CD on entry then the top placed such model will receive a prize in addition to any they may gain in the F1g contest."


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on October 24, 2016, 10:16:24 AM
Good to hear the news Bill.  Is the venue mentioned?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on October 24, 2016, 10:43:40 AM
Yes Mark, it's a delightful place called North Luffenham


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on November 30, 2016, 11:40:26 AM
December 1 begins the period for official flights in the Northern Hemisphere.  This period will close March 31, 2017.
 :)


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: USch on November 30, 2016, 12:44:08 PM
OK Mark, tomorrow I will start to prepare and lube the rubber motors   ;D

Urs


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on November 30, 2016, 01:11:52 PM
OK Mark, tomorrow I will start to prepare and lube the rubber motors   ;D
Ha! I've got 18 all lubed and run in, ready for Sunday!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: USch on November 30, 2016, 01:52:43 PM
18 ??? you gon'a prepare for a lot of fly-off flights, I suppose  ;D

Urs


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: D/T on November 30, 2016, 01:58:22 PM
My Batiuk coupe is nearly ready. Here is a view.
Don


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on December 04, 2016, 02:52:29 PM
Four people entered 60s Coupes in the Birmingham Coupe event at Nth Luffenham, and my My Coupe placed second  overall in F1G in the company of a lot of modern machinery. In fact another basic balsa/wire/tissue model placed third. The winner was an enormous model with a huge prop and 16 strand of 1/8" motor


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: USch on December 04, 2016, 04:44:31 PM
Congratulations Bill, you must feel like a king tonight  :D So it was worthwhile to prepare 18 motors.
Do you have some pictures from you and the other entry's?

Urs


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on December 04, 2016, 05:29:52 PM
Thanks Urs, and I used about 8 of them! No pictures I'm afraid. With vintage coupe as well, it was 8 flights in 4 hours and some long walks


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: RayE on December 04, 2016, 05:49:47 PM
I was one of the 4 that Bill mentioned. I would also like to congratulate him on his excellent flying. I flew my Joe Bilgri Mini shown in reply #522 above. I did not fly particularly well but would just say that it was the model's first contest and still needs further trimming. Conditions were quite difficult - nobody maxed out.

Ray


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on March 12, 2017, 10:21:14 PM
Mark, my friend (Glenn Grell) and I (Bruce Hannah) got to put up our postal flights today. It was well worth the 240 mile trip. Just a perfect day,we had a great time with our 60's coupe's. Glenn will be e mailing you the results and maybe a couple photo's. This was the first flyable day since Nov. longest\coldest winter ever. Thanks for getting us out there.      Bruce


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on March 13, 2017, 10:53:08 AM
As mentioned in the previous post, Glenn Grell sent these photos of Bruce Hannah and Glenn of the Willamette Modelers Club, flying their '60s vintage Coupes yesterday (3-12-17) in Oregon.   Bruce was flying a My Coupe and Glenn was flying his Auntie Freez.  Looks wet!  Good job guys!  Thanks for getting out there and doin' it.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: D/T on March 15, 2017, 04:20:45 PM
I finally managed to make my coupe flights with my Batiuk. This was its first outing, so I was trimming as I flew. Conditions were good, the model needs a few little snags sorting out, but flies nicely. Lets hope Mark will run it again.
Don


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on March 15, 2017, 05:02:28 PM
I plan to start my Nikolina construction probably this Thursday. Sure want to have it done and maybe flown during the winter here in Texas. Time will tell.
Sorry but no progress made. Don't have a big field so not able to enter yet. My friend who does fly coupe lives far away and travels many miles in order to participate. 60's coupe sounds interesting to him, tho.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: USch on March 21, 2017, 11:01:02 AM
Done  ;D ;D ;D

I managed to do the 5 flights, no flying shots as the only other guy flying Wake's was to busy with his models and timing my one's. What a shame to be in only two person to fly FF in such a large field.

Urs


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on March 22, 2017, 09:55:59 AM
Looks great Urs!  Nice field too.

9 days left for Northern Hemisphere fliers.  Get your flights and scores in.



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on April 01, 2017, 12:29:15 PM
The 2016-2017 window for official flying in the Northern Hemisphere for the 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal is closed.  If there are modelers who have flown but have not yet sent your time card to me, please do so now.  Official results will be posted here in the next few days.

As always, my thanks to those who have participated.



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on April 03, 2017, 04:20:12 AM
Here is Gavin Manion's French Coupe whose name I've forgotten. He missed the deadline. Goes well. More tail ribs than a herring.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Ratz on April 03, 2017, 06:18:52 PM
Here's the Official Results...

Download: File Replaced

Go to this post download the Results:
http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=16375.msg205076


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on April 04, 2017, 10:52:32 AM
I've told Mark that my scores are wrong. If I'd done 5 maxes I'd have carried on!
Thanks for this again Mark. It's been a great idea and has shown some of us that a simple model can compete with more sophisticated (and very expensive) machinery. Much more important is to build it straight, trim it, turn up, wind it right up,  keep going to the end and chuck it into a thermal.
Entries seem to be picking up slowly but here in the UK, I think a limiting factor is the winter flying. We only have two meetings over the period and finding a site otherwise is not easy.
Well done the winners - great performances!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: USch on April 04, 2017, 01:23:40 PM
Thank you Mark for a fun event which gets you out of the warm home and do some flying!

Well done WINNERS, I have to try harder next year  ;)

Urs


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: RayE on April 04, 2017, 02:24:44 PM
Thanks Mark for organising the event and congratulations to the winners.
Memo to self: I really must do better next year.

Ray


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on April 04, 2017, 03:46:02 PM
Yes, as Bill mentions above, I had an error in the spreadsheet.  I'm retired and away from Excel too long.   Anyway I've sent revised table to Ratz and we should have the corrected standings and scores shortly.

My apology.
Mark


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Ratz on April 04, 2017, 06:13:23 PM
Here's the "Corrected" Official Results...

Download:  Coupe d'Hiver Postal 2016-2017.pdf  (http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/downloads/Coupe_d_Hiver_Postal_2016-2017.pdf)


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on April 04, 2017, 07:23:36 PM
Thanks Dave.  Thanks also to the 8 competitors who took part and their timers.  I will try to get the plaques finished in a few weeks and get them mailed out.



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on April 21, 2017, 12:14:39 PM
I have shipped the plaques for 1st through 3rd place.  I would appreciated the recipients sending me a PM when they receive them.

Thank you,


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: tgwhitley on June 21, 2017, 01:46:27 AM
Mark

Will you have this postal contest again this season?

Thank you
Tim


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on June 21, 2017, 10:29:02 AM
Yeah I'll go ahead with it for another season.  This time though we will go with Northern Hemisphere first.....we will begin on Dec 1, 2017 and run through the end of March, 2018 for the North.   For the Southern Hemisphere, we will begin June 1, 2018 and run through the end of Sept., 2018.    

Sorry for the delayed decision but I think the enthusiasm has waned a bit and I had mixed feelings about continuing.  But YES we're GO for 2017-2018.




 


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: D/T on June 21, 2017, 01:26:10 PM
Mark
Great! I will certainly join in next winter.
Don


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on June 21, 2017, 07:01:25 PM
I'll try and give it a go,have you thought of giving out medals they are kinda cool too.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on June 21, 2017, 09:02:14 PM
So in practical terms there is no 2017 60s Coupe postal contest?

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: RayE on June 22, 2017, 04:38:17 PM
Having built the Bilgri "Mini" I'll certainly be having a go, and hoping to improve on my performance.

Ray


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on November 06, 2017, 10:06:10 AM
Okay, getting back to this postal.  My apologies but various matters arose to push the 2017-2018 competition back.   We will begin this one with the Northern Hemisphere folks having the first go on 1 December.  

Please read:

     1960s  Winter Cup Postal Rules:

•   Dates of the Third competition:  In keeping with the spirit of a winter free flight event, those living in the Northern Hemisphere will fly in Dec, 2017 through March, 2018.  Those living in the Southern Hemisphere will fly June-Sept, 2018.    Models may be flown on more than one day during the allotted time spans.

     •   Models must be built from plans or 3-views published between January, 1960 and December, 1969 (inclusive).    Earlier models that were published in the 1960s may   be flown.  Models designed in the 1960s that were not published until later may not be flown in this competition.

     •   In the event that models are built to small 3-views lacking detail or clarity, the competitor is allowed to improvise for the missing details but the model should be completed with 1960s’ technology and materials.  Models must not be “modernized” with materials that were not in common use in that decade.  For example, covering should be tissue paper, Silkspan or Modelspan.

     •   Each competitor is responsible for being able to prove, if challenged, that the model in question was published in the 1960s time frame.  It is suggested that such documentation be in hand before any given model is constructed for this competition.
 
     •   Models must not include VIT, folding wings, or other functions and materials common in modern F1G practice. (No carbon fiber, Kevlar, Mylar)

     •   The D/T function should, if possible, be provided with whatever was used on the original for the timing function.  A mechanical timer may only be used if there is shown to exist, documentation that such a timer is appropriate to the airframe in question during the 1960s or if a burning fuse type is illegal in your locale.  Viscous timers are also permitted.

     •   Models originally designed for 90gram airframes with 10gram motors may be lightened for this competition.
 
     •   Each competitor may fly up to (3) three models but may enter only once.

     •   Models must weigh in excess of 70.0 grams less motor.

     •   Maximum weight of the motor lubricated is 10.0 grams.

     •   Each competitor is on their honor to fly a model to the weight requirements.  The timesheet shall include an initialed statement that the weight of the airframe and the    motor(s) used in the official flights meet the weight requirements.

     •   Models shall be hand launched.   Jumping is allowed.

     •   Each competitor is entitled to (5) five official flights with a maximum of 120 seconds for each official flight.

     •   Each competitor shall declare to his/her timekeeper that an official flight is being attempted.
 
     •   The timekeeper shall record the duration of the first attempt of the official flight unless the flight is unsuccessful.

     •   An unsuccessful attempt shall be any flight of less than 20 seconds.

     •   A second unsuccessful attempt at the official flight shall be recorded as a zero time flight.

     •   The timekeeper should be positioned near the point of launching and may not follow the model.

     •   If (5) five maxes are recorded by a competitor, additional official flight(s) shall be flown with maximum flight duration increasing in 30 second increments, 150, 180, 210, 240 seconds, etc.

     •   The competitor and timekeeper shall sign their time-sheet and e-mail a scanned image of same to the Contest Director, Mark Braunlich or another delegated to fill the CD role in the event that would be necessary.  Do NOT post your official times in this thread or elsewhere on HPA.
 
     •   The three top placing competitors will be awarded modest plaques provided by myself.  All entrants are encouraged to engage in friendly competition, make new  friends and above all: have fun.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on November 06, 2017, 09:33:05 PM
Recently discovered that I'd scanned this plan but never posted Nikolina here.  I can mail a full size paper plan at $4 each if anyone wants one.  See reply #84  in the original thread for a pic of this smallish Cd'H.


Where can I see the original thread on Nikolina


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on November 07, 2017, 10:21:50 AM
FLYACE1946.

The original thread on 1960s Coupe d'Hiver postal is in the section Postal & E-Postal Competitions.   
See attachment, is this what you're looking for?  This small article was in Feb '65 Aeromodeller


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on November 07, 2017, 02:06:51 PM
This is just fine. Thank You PM sent


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on December 01, 2017, 10:04:21 AM
Today is opening day for those modellers competing in the Northern Hemisphere.  You have four months, through the end of March 2018 to get your official flights in.

Thank you and good luck!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on December 01, 2017, 11:06:22 PM
Today I learned of a contest happening in late March 2018. That is when I plan to get my flights in.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on December 09, 2017, 01:49:15 PM
Contest I hoped for is not scheduled. Since the distance involved to travel there is several hundred miles I just will not be able to participate. Have fun with out me. Sorry I had hoped to do this but the travel distance is just too much.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on December 09, 2017, 02:13:29 PM
Do you need a contest? I thought you could fly anywhere, any time.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on December 09, 2017, 04:09:54 PM
My main concern is the amount of space to fly in. My 10 acres is just way tooooo small. I was hoping to get to a contest just so I would have a lot of room. Coups need over 150 acres. No contest required, but just desirable.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on February 28, 2018, 07:19:08 PM
One month left for official flights for competitors in the Northern Hemisphere.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on February 28, 2018, 08:26:33 PM
Mark ,There are three of us on weather watch here in Oregon. March has been a good month in the past.   Bruce


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on March 13, 2018, 08:18:58 PM
A message received from Glenn Grell in Oregon:

In the sprit of the inter Coupe event, Bruce Hannah and I decided that Sunday March 11th would be a nice day to fly the event, we started flying in the fog, it turns out that if you fly an almost white airplane in the fog it will almost disappear. We had a great time flying after months of rain, but that is why the Willamette Valley is so green.

 
I have also attached the score sheets.

Thank you very much for doing this.

Glenn Grell
District XI Free Flight Contest Board


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on March 19, 2018, 09:26:51 PM
Mark we had fun but I wish more would give it a try. It seems to start out with more interest, where did they all go!!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Rewinged on March 19, 2018, 10:51:05 PM
Bruce, glad you and Glenn had fun.  Next year I might be able to join in.  You might have to carve me a prop, though.  One or 2 more and we'll have a real winter couple contest to feed the postal!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: D/T on March 26, 2018, 06:16:56 AM
Yesterday, 25 March, 2 of us headed to our regular flying field on the South Coast to make the Postal flights. Conditions were cloudy and cool with a steady breeze from the north. We completed the task with no real problems, except the field, which was very wet in places. A few photos show the field, Ray with his Bilgri Mini and my '69 Batiuk.

Many thanks to Mark for the motivation, good luck to the S Hemisphere and we hope it will be repeated.

Don


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on March 30, 2018, 04:19:41 PM
Thanks for the pics guys!

Tomorrow, Easter Sunday, concludes the window for the competition in the Northern Hemisphere for the 2017-2018 postal. 

The window for the Southern Hemisphere will open on June 1.



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: sspresdavid on March 30, 2018, 10:12:18 PM
I would love to see a vintage coupe contest that included designs from the 50s. There are many good looking, good flying plans available, plus I already have 2 airplanes, a Michel Etienvre, which holds it's own against modern coupes and a new one called Kim. I got the plans for KIM from SAM 1066 in the UK.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on April 02, 2018, 03:39:19 PM
sspresdavid,
Either model would be allowed in this competition if you could show evidence that the plans for either were published during the '60s.  That's the criteria, not the design date.

Mark


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: PeeTee on April 03, 2018, 06:49:49 AM
 Unfortunately both the MichEt and the Kim were designed in the 50s (prior to Jan 57), sorry and all that!!

Peter


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on June 01, 2018, 02:24:16 PM
June 1, marks the start of the 4 month window for logging official flights for this postal for those flying in the Southern Hemisphere.  The window will close September 30, 2018.



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: gman on June 01, 2018, 04:28:34 PM
I'm struggling to find "Kim" in the SAM 1066 plan list. Am I missing something or is it somewhere else? I'm always on the lookout for pretty Vintage Coupe designs. Peetee, is as ever, right, this and the Etienvre are most definitely not classic.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: PeeTee on June 02, 2018, 06:15:11 AM
Gavin, I am pretty sure that Roger Newman has a copy. I have one somewhere given to me by David Beales, back in the days when Coupe Ancienne was in it's infancy!

Peter


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on September 01, 2018, 09:54:46 AM
REMINDER

One month remains for those flying in the Southern Hemisphere.  Get your flights in.

Good luck to all concerned.

Mark


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on September 23, 2018, 01:04:16 AM
60's C d'H down under

There has not been any news on HPA of 60's C d'H activity here in Melbourne for some time.
That does not mean we have lost interest. Mike Glaister and I both started new models for 2017.
Mike built a Ferion (definitely one of my favourites in the 60s) and refurbished his Deuzios. Pics 1 & 2 below
I started an Ailbass inspired by the May '86 Aeromodeller cover, but put it aside when to 2017 season was postponed.
We have all been bitten by the E36 bug, and I wanted to design and build something a bit out of the rut.

I made some minor structural changes to Ailbass, mostly to the fuselage. Some stress points have been eliminated and the nose area, where all rubber models get a lot of handling, has been reinforced.
Wing mounting is by traditional tongue and box rather than Jossien's scheme or dowels in tubes.
I always liked the knock off characteristics of tongue and box. Pics 4 & 5 below.
I also extended the cabin by a bay to allow room for a pilot and observer as in Pic 6. but not yet installed.
 
The weather this winter season has not been very Free Flight friendly.
There were some reasonable days in June but Mike was still sorting the Ferion and my Ailbass was far from finished.
July and most of August passed by with no good days that we could go out on.
Then in the later part of August there was some good weather and Mike got in 4 flights.
I finished Ailbass early in September and waited for a reasonable day to fly.
Test glides and a few hand turns in the local park were very encouraging.
It seemed to need some turn trim, so I keyed in a few mm of right rudder off-set, but otherwise it flew off the board.
Finally last Friday looked feasible so we went out quite early.
Test flights showed that the Ailbass needed some packing under the tailplane LE and a tad less rudder.
Mike put in his last flight, then I made two flights with the Ailbass.
Quite inspiring and well worth all the extra effort compared to a more conventional design.
At this point the top of the wing tongue box came loose - I hadn't allowed for significant down loads on the wing tips.
The breeze was rising but still flyable so I put in a third flight with the dependable Dwarf Dip.

The forecast (which is amazingly accurate these days) indicates Tuesday or Wednesday will be good while next weekend has possibilities,
so I should get some scores for the last two flights before the end of the month.

Fixing the failed box will be fiddly but it may be possible without major surgery.
It would be very pleasing to make the remaining flights with Ailbass.

Sean



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on September 23, 2018, 12:33:22 PM
Thanks for the report and photos Sean.  Great stuff.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on September 29, 2018, 02:02:49 AM
60's C d'H down under - continued

Well I managed to extract the box through one side of the Ailbass fuselage without major surgery.
I glued it back together and reinforced it with thread binding, especially in the centre, then replaced it.
Tuesday turned windy but Wednesday's forecast remained friendly so we went out.

I've included an aerial view of our field. Its 1 mile square unimproved volcanic plain used for grazing but not crops,
which is why we have year around access. The grey speckles are basalt boulders of varying size, mostly buried.
As you can see there are numerous trees and bushes which we usually manage to avoid.

We set up at the red spot on the map.
What we thought would be an easy exercise in nice conditions turned into one of those free flight adventures.
It became clear that Ailbass was longitudinally unstable. Launched at low angle, it flew into the ground.
The earlier flights were fantastic flukes !
The CG needed to be moved forward ~10 mm at least.
There is a 12 gm slab of lead but I have to pull the sheeting of the bottom of the fuselage to get to it, a job for another day.

So I readied the Dwarf Dip and launched in spite of the fact that the breeze had changed direction from west to east.
We should really have moved to a safer spot.
There were some scattered trees down wind and the model managed to fetch up in one of these well behind the one it was first obscured by.
It took some time to find using the confusing signals from the tracker as a guide,
but eventually I spotted it at what seemed like a reachable height.
It was in the tree just above the green spot.

Had Mike packed our de-treeing pole ?
I started back to the launch point and saw that Mike was on his way out carrying something - the pole !
It turned out that the pole was just long enough ( ~ 9 meters ) to reach and I managed to slide the model off its perch only to have it fall into a thorn bush at the base of the tree.
This resulted in quite a few punctures but no major tears so a change of motors would be sufficient for another flight.

Some other free flight regulars had arrived by now, so we packed our gear and moved to the spot they favour at the blue spot
The final flight was uneventful and easily retrieved.

So there you have it.

Sean



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on October 02, 2018, 10:42:43 AM
With the arrival of October, the 2017-2018 postal is concluded.  Participation was reduced this year, not sure why.  I will wait a few days to see if there are any forthcoming flight times coming in and will notify all here of the results at the weekend.

Thank you to all who made the effort.

Mark


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: ffkiwi on October 02, 2018, 03:58:39 PM
Never got the chance weather-wise-its been a rotten winter in NZ-and early spring has been no improvement. The Deuzio had one trimming outing in what was virtually a bog (saturated dairy farm on the outskirts of Fielding) but a few issues discovered on field required off field sorting....!   Next year......         [FWIW the Deuzio displayed a quite impressive climb on its initial trimming flights....less said about the glide the better...(at this stage)..]

 ChrisM
 'ffkiwi'


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on October 04, 2018, 12:32:44 PM
Awards are ready!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on October 04, 2018, 06:21:03 PM
Top stuff as usual Mark, Sorry I couldn't participate this year but well done for another well run Postal. Would like a chance next year if possible?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on October 05, 2018, 04:02:22 PM
I also hope for another chance. Lets try for 2019 ok?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on October 05, 2018, 04:20:06 PM
Those look very nice Mark


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on October 07, 2018, 03:33:10 PM
Everyone,
I am still waiting for one score card to come in.
Thank you in advance for your patience.

Mark Braunlich


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on October 08, 2018, 09:36:29 AM
Results for the 2017-2018 postal are in.
See attachment.

Congratulations, once again, to Sean O'Conner on his win.  The scores were closely grouped this year.
Competitors placing 1st through 3rd, please let me have your mailing address so I can mail your awards. 

My thanks to all the competitors and timers who participated.  With six competitors (all flying in pairs), I would of course love to see more participation!   Let's see if we can improve on the participation level for 2018-2019.  Maybe each of the pairs flying in the competition just ended can find another modeler to join in the fun.   It really is stimulating to get out of the house and do some flying on a fine winter day!

The rules will be the same for 2018-2019 but I will re-post them here all the same.   Northern Hemisphere modelers will once again fly 1 December through 31 March.
 
Onward and upward, as they say.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on October 08, 2018, 11:02:43 AM
Hello Mark
I sent my scores 25 March. Not to worry - they wouldn't have changed the winners!
Bill


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on October 08, 2018, 07:42:49 PM
My apologies to Bill Dennis for not including him in the results table above.  The amended results are attached here.  It appears e-mailed scores of two UK modellers went into my junk mail box this past Spring.   Will try to get that corrected for the future.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Duncan McBride on October 08, 2018, 08:58:39 PM
Well done.  I'm in for next year.  I've had plans for Alain Landeau's Pamyscaph for years, and always admired the elegant lines.  Time to get started.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on October 09, 2018, 03:15:11 AM
My apologies to Bill Dennis for not including him in the results table above.  The amended results are attached here.  It appears e-mailed scores of two UK modellers went into my junk mail box this past Spring.   Will try to get that corrected for the future.
Thanks Mark. I'll join in again next year as long as I still have my My Coupe!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: USch on October 09, 2018, 03:23:32 AM
I too hope to be with you all next year, maybe even with a different model ???

Urs


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: THB on October 09, 2018, 05:37:22 AM
Nice work Sean!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: D/T on October 09, 2018, 06:11:33 AM
I definitely intend to have another go at the next edition of the Postal. Good fun, everyone should try it.

Don


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: gman on October 09, 2018, 08:05:58 AM
To Don, Bill, Ray and any other intending "1960s Coupe postees" a reminder that La Grande Coupe de Birmingham on Dec 2nd at North Luffenham has it's usual sub class for these delightful planes. Bubbly and a very appropriate repro GPB cartoon to the winner.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on October 09, 2018, 12:02:52 PM
To Don, Bill, Ray and any other intending "1960s Coupe postees" a reminder that La Grande Coupe de Birmingham on Dec 2nd at North Luffenham has it's usual sub class for these delightful planes. Bubbly and a very appropriate repro GPB cartoon to the winner.
Hi Gavin. Yes, well aware. I won it two years ago and you tried to award it to me last year but I had to point out I had changed the prop in my My Coupe for one of yours! Therein lies the problem. The postal has been so successful for me that I have 'moved on' and now fly 'modern' designs with, crucially, better props and less drag. The postal flights I now make are out of contest and it isn't really worth me making a model just for that. Thus the postal has eaten itself! It's a shame because my latest coupe looks like all the other identikit modern designs. Bring back the cross section rule!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: tctele on October 09, 2018, 06:40:06 PM
This looks a bit bonkers not sure of the date found in the 69/70 nAeromodeller annual. How the prop was done I have no idea. I am very tempted to do this one, something different


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: RayE on October 09, 2018, 06:51:47 PM
I'll be there Gavin and hope to improve my position in the postal as well, assuming Mark runs it again.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on October 10, 2018, 12:01:46 AM
Yes Ray, it’s on for 2018-2019.  Northern Hemisphere window for official flights is 1 Dec through 31 March.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on October 11, 2018, 06:18:41 PM
Thank you for another year Mark.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on October 11, 2018, 08:34:30 PM
Yes thank you for your hard work, now lets go beat the bushes and flush out a few more coupe fliers.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on October 26, 2018, 01:54:31 AM
Now that forum is up again I can respond to the announced results.

Thank you Mark for your organization and your decision to continue for yet another year.
Thanks to the other participants for being in it.

I was quite surprised and of course pleased, and even a bit alarmed to see that I got the highest score once again, especially given the last minute scramble required to get together any score at all.

To those of you who are thinking about participating, especially in the UK, who have plenty of regular Coupe comps to fly in,
I'd like to say that while these 60s designs may may not keep up with the current state of the art in still air fly-offs, many of them are very competitive in ordinary rounds.
Thus, thanks to the flexibility of Mark's rules you can get a score together by flying a 60s C d'H in the nice early rounds of a scheduled comp and perhaps switching to a hotter model when the conditions require it. A couple of bouts like that and maybe one dedicated flight and you have 5 eligible flight times.

Thanks again Mark.

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: D/T on October 26, 2018, 10:46:26 AM
"especially in the UK, who have plenty of regular Coupe comps to fly in"

Sean
But not in the middle of winter, when the Postal is on, which is its attraction and benefit, to get us active out of season.
Regards
Don


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on November 02, 2018, 11:56:07 AM
Please read:

    1960s  Winter Cup Postal Rules:


     •   Dates of the Fifth competition:  In keeping with the spirit of a winter free flight event, those living in the Northern Hemisphere will fly in Dec, 2018 through March,2019.  
          Those living in the Southern Hemisphere will fly June-Sept, 2019.    Models may be flown on more than one day during the allotted time spans.

     •   Models must be built from plans or 3-views published between January, 1960 and December, 1969 (inclusive).    Earlier models that were published in the 1960s may be
          flown.  Models designed in the 1960s that were not published until later may not be flown in this competition.

     •   In the event that models are built to small 3-views lacking detail or clarity, the competitor is allowed to improvise for the missing details but the model should be completed
          with 1960s’ technology and materials.  Models must not be “modernized” with materials that were not in common use in that decade.  For example, covering should be
          tissue paper, Silkspan or Modelspan.

     •   Each competitor is responsible for being able to prove, if challenged, that the model in question was published in the 1960s time frame.  It is suggested that such
         documentation be in hand before any given model is constructed for this competition.
 
     •   Models must not include VIT, folding wings, or other functions and materials common in modern F1G practice. (No carbon fiber, Kevlar, Mylar)

     •   The D/T function should, if possible, be provided with whatever was used on the original for the timing function.  A mechanical timer may only be used if there is shown to
          exist, documentation that such a timer is appropriate to the airframe in question during the 1960s or if a burning fuse type is illegal in your locale.  Viscous timers are also
          permitted.

     •   Models originally designed for 90gram airframes with 10gram motors may be lightened for this competition.
  
     •   Each competitor may fly up to (3) three models but may enter only once.

     •   Models must weigh in excess of 70.0 grams less motor.

     •   Maximum weight of the motor lubricated is 10.0 grams.

     •   Each competitor is on their honor to fly a model to the weight requirements.  The timesheet shall include an initialed statement that the weight of the airframe and the    
          motor(s) used in the official flights meet the weight requirements.

     •   Models shall be hand launched.   Jumping is allowed.

     •   Each competitor is entitled to (5) five official flights with a maximum of 120 seconds for each official flight.

     •   Each competitor shall declare to his/her timekeeper that an official flight is being attempted.
 
     •   The timekeeper shall record the duration of the first attempt of the official flight unless the flight is unsuccessful.

     •   An unsuccessful attempt shall be any flight of less than 20 seconds.

     •   A second unsuccessful attempt at the official flight shall be recorded as a zero time flight.

     •   The timekeeper should be positioned near the point of launching and may not follow the model.

     •   If (5) five maxes are recorded by a competitor, additional official flight(s) shall be flown with maximum flight duration increasing in 30 second increments, 150, 180, 210,
         240 seconds, etc.

     •   The competitor and timekeeper shall sign their time-sheet and e-mail a scanned image of same to the Contest Director, Mark Braunlich or another delegated to fill the CD
          role in the event that would be necessary.  Do NOT post your official times in this thread or elsewhere on HPA.
  
     •   The three top placing competitors will be awarded modest plaques provided by myself.  All entrants are encouraged to engage in friendly competition, make new  friends
          and above all: have fun.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on November 02, 2018, 01:40:52 PM
Sure am happy for another opportunity . Thanks


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: angel1 on November 12, 2018, 04:48:34 AM
Hi Mark,
This is the first time I have posted to this topic, however I have participated in three of the four contests so far with varying degrees of success. As you may know, Soc (Sean) and I fly together most times and act as as one another’s timekeeper most times but especially during the ‘60’s Coupe contest(s). I would first like to reiterate Sean’s thanks to you for running the contest, it gets us out of bed on chilly winter mornings!

My main purpose in posting this is to enquire if the Builder of the Model rule applies for the ‘60’s Postal, it is not specifically mentioned in the Rules . I do this because we have another flyer in our club who would like to compete and I have a Deuzio to spare that I can donate to him to advance the cause!

On the subject of appropriate models, I would recommend the Ferion, a great design by Guy Guidici. Soc thinks it is a  great design and I have to agree, it is a beautiful looking model, which is why I chose to build it in the first place. It was a little more difficult to trim than the Deuzio(s) but the climb is spectacular, almost as good as Sean’s Dwarf Dip and better than either of my Deuzio. ( Why I dropped three flights flying this model is another matter!)

Anyway enough for now, looking forward to your ruling on the BoM question

Mike (Angel1)


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on November 12, 2018, 10:07:40 AM
angel1,

Thanks for asking.  There is no Builder of the Model rule for this competition.  I think in the past we have had some competitors flying ancient, handed-down models and I think that's fine.  The more PEOPLE we can get competing, the better.  Hopefully your prospect will become infected with the fun and consider building his own.

I've been thinking maybe we should have a separate award for first-timers in this postal....any thoughts?  Maybe if we have at least three first-timers I will award the high time a separate plaque or other memento.

Cheeers,


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: angel1 on November 12, 2018, 05:17:53 PM
Thanks for the ruling Mark, my oldest (and heaviest) Deuzio has now found a new home!

Soc and I are now competing with one another building new models for the 2019 Winter. He is well ahead of me (at the moment) as he has already built fuselages for Matherat's "Ooosh! and Lennart Flodstrom's "Baron Hunter". I am also following the Matherat theme with a design which appeared in the 69-71 Aeromodeller Annual (p49) - don't know the name as yet. Similar in many ways to most of Matherat's designs of the period, it seems to be the precursor to a theme he continued to persue, culminating in the much later "Les Trumeaux".
One of the designs in this series was "A et B", featured in an article in  "Modele Reduit d'Avion" dated September 1971, but which was actually built in 1967 (Matherat mentions this in the text of the article). I would like to include A et B in the summer building programme, but am hesitant to do so as it is currently ineligible.

To resolve this issue, does anyone have a three-view of this model prior to the cut-off date?

Angel1



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: flydean1 on November 12, 2018, 06:13:21 PM
Does anyone know if George Perryman's Fludy Coop Speckled Bird was within this period?  It was built to the min cross section rule.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on November 15, 2018, 02:02:52 PM
I was saddened because it came along too late. So sorry.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Starduster on November 15, 2018, 03:11:38 PM
I'm tempted to finally build a George Batiuk CdH from the 1969 VTO. I did the CAD drawing a while ago, but never built the airplane. The plan is in the Gallery:

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=6234

However, the 3-view I used did not have any information about the prop or prop mechanism.

???



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on November 15, 2018, 03:43:46 PM
One of the guys here  goes by the name D\T has built one and flies it, maybe he'll see this and give you the info 


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Starduster on November 15, 2018, 03:52:58 PM
One of the guys here  goes by the name D\T has built one and flies it, maybe he'll see this and give you the info 

thanks, I'm wondering about what the rules are if something like the prop and mechanism are not specified?


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: PeeTee on November 15, 2018, 04:02:51 PM
It's Don, who I had a nice pint with at lunchtime!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: D/T on November 15, 2018, 04:47:49 PM
I'm tempted to finally build a George Batiuk CdH from the 1969 VTO. I did the CAD drawing a while ago, but never built the airplane. The plan is in the Gallery:

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=6234

However, the 3-view I used did not have any information about the prop or prop mechanism.

???


Starduster
Yes it was me. I built mine from the VTO 3 view from here. The only info on the 3 view for the prop is that it is 14 inch dia x 22 inch pitch. In the spirit of the Coupe postal one can infill using details appropriate to the era, so my prop is helical pitch, with a standard tension stop. Blades were carved from 3/8" sheet. The model flies well generally, possibly shows some dutch roll. It is a simple and practical design, although I do wonder why George thought the tailplane needed 5 spars!

regards
Don


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Starduster on November 15, 2018, 07:17:38 PM
I do wonder why George thought the tailplane needed 5 spars!

regards
Don

Well, because 5 is one better than 4, obviously!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on November 25, 2018, 06:14:45 PM
The 2018-2019 competition for competitors in the Northern Hemisphere begins Saturday 1 December, 2018 and runs through the end of March, 2019.

Competitors in the Southern Hemisphere will compete June through September, 2019.

If you're building for the coming competition, please post some photos here. 

Thank you!!





Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on December 31, 2018, 05:46:51 PM
Been a while since we've seen a plan/drawing here.  This is from the June-July, 1965 issue of FLYING MODELS magazine.  A lot of detail is missing but you can improvise for the missing bits and stay withing the rules.

Happy New Year!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on February 16, 2019, 02:34:22 PM
Sure been quite here for a while. I think I have around 5 guys ready to fly as soon as the rain stops. We have our fingers crossed that March will be kind to us.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on February 18, 2019, 07:21:46 PM
I just learned the coupe event I was hoping to jump into has been scheduled for a contest in April that is after the date I can fly for this postal. Well Here goes anyway. Still want to do it anyway. I just might surprise somebody.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on February 19, 2019, 04:36:03 AM
  I know how you feel, My best chance is a fortnight Before our time slot downunder  ;D


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: kkphantom on February 19, 2019, 04:49:06 AM
I'm leaving Aussie for England in May so I'll miss both!


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on February 19, 2019, 07:15:45 AM
  There's always someone who is worse off than you.  ;D ;D


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on March 10, 2019, 01:58:39 PM
Three weeks left for official flights in the Northern Hemisphere.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on March 10, 2019, 03:51:39 PM
I still have about 18" of snow, but am hopeful we might find a window to fly in.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: G GRELL on March 17, 2019, 11:16:54 PM
Hi Mark
Yesterday March 16 five flyer's from the Willamette Modelers Club came together to fly in the 60's coupe postal. This turned out to be about as good as day as we have had in the valley for many months. This has been a cold snowy and foggy winter for the valley. The five are Bruce Hannah Bill Swift Mark Sexton Tom Kopriva and Glenn Grell listed in greatest distance traveled to shortest which is 120 miles to 5 miles. We also had three support people my two brothers Paul and Bruce Grell doing all of the timing and my wife Linda was the photographer. Four of us put in official flights I will be sending the times to you and be posting some pitchers. Thank you for running this postal it gets us out and flying after a long wet winter.
Thanks Glenn 


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: G GRELL on March 18, 2019, 12:20:12 AM
Here are some picture from the WMC Oregon Couple Contest. The group picture is Mark Sexton, Bruce Hannah, Glenn Grell, Tom Kopriva, and Bill Swift.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: dputt7 on March 18, 2019, 04:13:51 AM
  That looks great Glenn, thanks for the photos, it's always encouraging to see groups of fellas flying Free Flight.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: LASTWOODSMAN on March 18, 2019, 05:56:35 AM
     Thanks for the great pics Glenn.   :D   I agree with dputt7.    It is always encouraging to see groups of fellas flying Free Flight.   Looks like you all had a good time.   That is some flying field you guys have there.  How big is it?

LASTWOODSMAN
Richard


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on March 18, 2019, 07:17:39 PM
Great to see a good turnout and a brace of Dwarf Dips.

Mike will be jealous.
He is hoping we might get one or just maybe two new entrants from Melbourne.

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: D/T on March 18, 2019, 07:28:31 PM
Today was the first flyable day for a time here in UK, so 2 of us went to our usual field in the New Forest to make our Postal flights. Conditions were cool and cloudy with passing showers, little lift, but we did all our flights. I flew my Batiuk (third year) and had a few mechanical problems with the prop. It was good to make the first flights of the year and appreciate the encouragement this event provides. Too busy to take any pics, sorry.

Don


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: G GRELL on March 18, 2019, 11:35:38 PM
The field we were flying on is about 100 acers. This part of the Willamette valley is noted for grass seed production we have many miles of very flat fields. We have been flying on many of the fields in the Tangent area for about 40 years. We are mostly limited to flying in August September and October. This field was out of production this winter so we were able to use it this weekend but it will be planted this week. The two Dwarf Dips that Mark and Bill were flying were new this year. Bills had 3 or 4 test flights and Marks had none before this weekend. I was flying a new Batiuk coupe this year it had 5 test flights before the weekend. This is first plane that I have built that came close to weight When it was all said and done it came in at 73 grams. I was using a 10 strand motor wound to 25 inch/oz and about 500 turns. It was a great day of flying.
Glenn
 


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Starduster on March 19, 2019, 09:43:00 AM
I was flying a new Batiuk coupe this year it had 5 test flights before the weekend. This is first plane that I have built that came close to weight When it was all said and done it came in at 73 grams. I was using a 10 strand motor wound to 25 inch/oz and about 500 turns. It was a great day of flying.
Glenn
 

Did you build the Batiuk from the plans I uploaded in the plans gallery?

( I thought I recognized the airplane in the pisctures)


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: G GRELL on March 19, 2019, 11:11:35 PM
Yes I did use the plans from the gallery. The most problem I had in building the Batiuk was the fact that the ribs are 1/32 so I built a lot of extras.
Glenn


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on March 31, 2019, 03:18:45 PM
Hello everyone.

With the close of March, we end the window for official flights for the 2018-2019 Coupe d'Hiver Postal in the Northern Hemisphere.

Score sheets have been received from eight modelers so far.  They are:

Flying at North Luffenham, Rutland, UK
  Stu Darmon
  Gavin Manion

Flying at New Forest, UK
  Don Thomson
  Ray Elliott

Flying in Oregon, USA
  Glenn Grell
  Mark Sexton
  Bruce Hannah
  Bill Swift

Now you know the names, you can see your bet takers. ;D

If I've missed anyone, my apologies.  Please let me know and we'll make it right. 
My thanks to everyone competing and the timers, spotters, chasers and other supporters who make this happen.  I appreciate the efforts made this year to get more people involved.   So now, the Southern Hemisphere folks will have a go in June through September.  Should be interesting, as they say.

Cheers,
Mark



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: G GRELL on March 31, 2019, 09:11:48 PM
Mark,

We had one more coupe flyer yesterday the 30th, Ben Strauss from Portland drove down and put in 5 very nice flights with a brand new Nikolina. Here are some pictures and the scores are on the way. Glenn


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on March 31, 2019, 10:01:42 PM
Thanks Glenn.  Another new name for the postal.  That's great!

Glenn, I do not have a score card for Tom Kopriva.   Do you know if Tom was able to complete his flights?

Mark


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: G GRELL on March 31, 2019, 10:09:02 PM
Mark Tom was not able to put in any of his flights.
Glenn


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: D/T on April 01, 2019, 04:49:43 AM
Its good to see the wide diversity of designs being flown, with no one type dominant. All the UK entries were different designs.

Don


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on May 29, 2019, 09:00:41 PM
Reminder:

The window for official flights for those flying in the Southern Hemisphere is 1 June through 30 September, 2019.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on May 29, 2019, 09:11:10 PM
Sure hope this event goes into the next year. Keep trying to find a big area to fly a coupe. Good Luck everyone.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: TRuss on August 06, 2019, 12:22:13 AM
I too hope this continues as I fully intend to have something built so that I can fly with my WMC buddies.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on September 11, 2019, 01:18:14 PM
Reminder that the window for official 2018-2019 Postal flights for the Southern Hemisphere fliers closes the end of September.

My thanks for all those who have participated and sent in scores, north and south of the equator.



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on September 29, 2019, 11:03:34 AM
One day left for official flights in Southern Hemisphere but I want to take this opportunity to thank everyone for a record year for participation in these Cd'H postals.  Twelve flyers!

I have received score cards from the following people.  Please let me know if your name is missing as we've had instances of e-mails from outside the USA going adrift.

Bill Swift
Mark Sexton
Bruce Hannah
Glen Grell
Don Thompson
Ray Elliott
Gavin Manion
Stu Darmon
Ben Strauss
Michael Glaister
Sean O'Conner
Chris Murphy

Cheers,


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Soc on September 30, 2019, 02:48:52 AM
60's C d'H down under - 2019

While there has been no report of 60's C d'H activity here in Melbourne for some time, that does not mean we have lost interest.
Mike Glaister has been tinkering with his Ferion and refurbished his Deuzios (yet again).
He also built the Matherat design (plan below), but is having trouble with the boom.
I have been attempting to tame the Ailbass...
For the future, I noticed that the Baron Hunter uses the same size prop as Ailbass.
It also has a B7406f based wing section, which i've been interested in trying out.
So I started to build one of these last summer (Dec-Jan).
 
The weather this winter season has not been at all Free Flight friendly.
There were some reasonable days in June but we were not prepared.
Finally there was an OK day at the end of July when Mike got a start with the Ferion before the breeze made flying risky.

Most of August passed by with no good days that we were free to go out on.

Then late in August there was a really nice day when Mike finished his flights using the Ferion and I got mine done with the Ailbass.

Meanwhile a new contender, Vin Morgan had been building A Deuzio.
Would he complete it and manage to trim it before the end of September we wondered?
The forecast for Thursday 26 looked really good so Vin and Mike went out to the field.
Vin was able to trim the model with some minor adjustments and get a score with the brand new Deuzio.

its great to see the record number of entries in the post above.
Mark will be able to add Vin Morgan to the list of starters in a day or two.
Many thanks to Mark for sponsoring the competition.

Sean


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on September 30, 2019, 05:10:38 PM
Waiting on at least one score card.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Mark Braunlich on October 02, 2019, 09:53:15 AM
Gentlemen,

Here is the spreadsheet of results for the 2018-2019 '60s Coupe d'Hiver Postal.  I'm hoping I have everyone's scores.  Congratulations to Bruce Hannah on his win flying his My Coupe.  Again my thanks for the success of another postal and yes, I am intending to continue this for the 2019-2020 season.

To those contestants finishing 1st, 2nd and 3rd, please let me have your mailing addresses so that awards can be mailed.

Cheers,



Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: gman on October 02, 2019, 11:40:52 AM
Mike Glaister has been tinkering with his Ferion and refurbished his Deuzios (yet again).
He also built the Matherat design (plan below), but is having trouble with the boom.

I never have got to learn how to "insert quote" but it's the Matherat coupe bit I'm commenting on. I'm sure that, despite AM's assurances, that is not Matherat's model. I reckon it's Sargentini's winner (cos that's what it said on the lovely French (ex Peetee) plan I built mine from. I flew it in the postal this year but found it surprisingly difficult to get to go well. Mind, if Matherat didn't build it he was certainly breathing closely down Sargentini's neck. They were clubmates, and it shows!
Gavin


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: PeeTee on October 02, 2019, 01:27:49 PM
Unfortunately Gavin is right. The model shown in the Aeromodeller book is the Sargentini version but was drawn by Georges Matherat. I'm surprised it hasn't flown better, give it a 'proper' Gavin bung! ;D

Peter


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FF Bruce on October 02, 2019, 04:49:57 PM
Mark I would like to thank you for running this event. I know I can speak for the guys here in Oregon we had a blast. Many have shown interest in building a 60's couple for next year. I say the more the merrier and will do my best at keeping the pressure on.      Bruce


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: gman on October 03, 2019, 05:55:10 AM
Yes Mark, in the excitement around who actually authored that particular French Classic, I forgot to thank you for running this event this year and for committing to doing it all again for next. I flew it for the first time this year with my long time flying mate Stu Darmon. We had a great time with balsa, spruce, tissue and DT fuse on a day which was much better than our performance. We both agreed that it felt much more like flying in a contest than either of us had expected. We are looking forward to doing it again this coming spring, I might build a Duzio..?
UK flyers please note that you will be eligible for liquid and other goodies if you top "classic coupe" at this December's Birmingham Coupe Event.
Gavin


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: billdennis747 on October 03, 2019, 06:11:29 AM
Hi Gavin. I haven't competed in this Postal for a couple of years because it has pushed me to build better coupes for our F1G comps and I can't be energised to build a classic just for this. If there was a separate class, maybe. They hold much more interest for me than vintage coupes, but I wouldn't want to fly one in your event, for example because I know I could do better with a newer one.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: D/T on October 03, 2019, 06:14:24 AM
Quote
Mark I would like to thank you for running this event.

Hear, hear! The Coupe Postal fills a void in the dead season for contests, with some interesting designs. Lets keep it going.

Don


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: Red Buzzard on October 03, 2019, 12:21:59 PM
I can second Bruce Hannah. It was a great day to be outdoors doing what we have fun doing with good friends. Guaranteed it was a long wait to contest time, made shorter by your event. Thanks Mark for hosting and supporting the event.

Bill Swift


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: FLYACE1946 on October 03, 2019, 12:29:41 PM
Glad to see this postal event will continue. Thank you Mark . Should hopefully  enter this go round.


Title: Re: 1960s Coupe d'Hiver Postal
Post by: G GRELL on October 03, 2019, 10:09:53 PM
Thank you Mark for running the coupe postal it has been a great time. Hope to see every one back next year and a lot of new flyers.
Glenn