Hip Pocket Builders' Forum

Outdoor Free Flight Forum => P-30 Class Sport and Competition => Topic started by: Tweedy on April 28, 2009, 01:39:02 AM



Title: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Tweedy on April 28, 2009, 01:39:02 AM
I am building my first P-30, a C.B. Model Designs Boomer. I have been a modeler since I was 8 or 9 years old younger than that if you count all the sleek streak type models. I built rubber and 1/4A and 1/2A Free flight models, then got into single channel R/C and then multi channel, during my time in the Army in the early 70s.

I never left modeling, but over the years work and two many other hobbies have limited the time spent modeling. Mostly I built for my nephews and the children of friends. A few years ago I was injured, and suddenly had a lot more time on my hands for modeling. I had drawn up CAD plans for a small Frank Zaic model called the Falcon finally built it and was searching for a place to fly it in Orange County.

I found the Yahoo Groups site for the Dog Park Free Flight Society at Fairview Park in Costa Mesa CA. Clint Brooks (the (C.B.) in C.B. model Designs) was the first contact that I made with the group and has been very helpful not just to me but he seems to be the one everyone goes to for help and advise building and trimming their models. The Dog Park was the first time I ever saw a freeflight model fly that I did not build.

The choice of the Boomer as my first P-30 was a no-brainer I have built his YardStick sport model and it was a delightful build so I thought I would use this site to post a mini review of the Boomer MKII kit.

First it is packaged in a sturdy box the parts are packaged in heat sealed bags (no way any parts are going to fall out and get lost) the fuselage is packed in bubble wrap and is a Hand made work of art, ready to cover and add the DT components all the DT parts are included except the timer itself 3 types are shown on the plans and he includes laser cut plywood mounts for a couple different styles. The wing, stab, rudder, and nose block components are all laser cut self jigging and of quality balsa of the appropriate weight, the only parts of the kit not laser cut are the wing 1/16” turbulator spars the kit also includes Japanese tissue (tell him what colors you want) also included is one of the yellow p-30 props (I think Czechoslovakian ). The CAD drawn plans for this model are much nicer than are typical in models kitted these days really a work of art.

Thus far I have got everything ready to cover, and have not made any changes other than a piece of Kevlar thread on the trailing edge wrapped in a piece of silkspan. For me to build a model like this from plans would I think would take three of four times as long, and when done chasing down all the components, might not save much $ I’ll take some pictures and weigh the parts before covering and post them here in the next day or two.

Clint’s website is http://www.cbmodeldesigns.com/boomer-mk-ii.htm (http://www.cbmodeldesigns.com/boomer-mk-ii.htm)

Richard Browning


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: JetPlaneFlyer on April 28, 2009, 02:29:44 AM
I've got a Boomer still in it's box. I second all the good things you say about the quality of the kit and the level of pre-fabrication. This thread could be the push i need to get it built.

Steve


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: PeeTee on April 28, 2009, 02:55:11 AM
Steve

You've plenty of time to build it & fly at the Nationals - a whole month. Get gluing ;D

Peter


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on April 29, 2009, 07:36:12 PM
Richard, Thanks for starting this thread. I am also interested in Clint's "Boomer". Just that I haven't had the funds to get one yet, but maybe in May. I also wish to obtain his "Yardstick". It just looks so nostalgic. I look forward to seeing your build progress.

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Tweedy on April 30, 2009, 11:58:17 PM
I'm having a heck of a time shrinking down the photos small enough to post, will submit as soon as I can figure out what I'm doing wrong. Caley sorry you got blown out Wed. I was thinking of taking my YardStick out to Perris Wed. but kept hitting the snooze button.

Richard


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Tweedy on May 01, 2009, 12:06:48 AM
pictures


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on May 01, 2009, 12:07:11 AM
Richard, Guess you should be glad you didn't go out to Perris. Of course, for the patient people, flying commenced a few hours later than normal. I would imagine that everyone there to compete got their three flights in. I might get down to Perris in a couple of weeks. Look forward to seeing your Yardstick and the Boomer.

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Tweedy on May 01, 2009, 12:09:28 AM
pictures


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on May 01, 2009, 12:39:44 AM
Richard, Those bones look great! Looks like the weight is really good also. Did the G-G prop assembly come with the kit, or are you substituting with that? Nice thing about the G-G prop assembly is that you can make adjustments to the thrust angles.

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Tweedy on May 03, 2009, 12:53:47 AM
Caley
The G-G unit is not included' will save the yellow p-30 prop that he includes in the kit for another project> Clint has posted photos of his newest Boomer on his web site with the G-G unit.

Richard


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on May 03, 2009, 02:29:03 AM
Richard, Kewl. I just ordered my Boomer from Clint's website. Couldn't afford his Yardstick and the Boomer in one order, so will have to wait til later. I think I've got a spare 9 inch G-G prop assembly lying around. Might use it for the Boomer, though I keep reading that the Czech props are better than the P-P stock prop. Kind of want to see how a Czech prop works also.

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: applehoney on May 03, 2009, 07:18:53 PM
Caley, the G-G prop is not stock - carefully re-pitched.


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Tweedy on May 04, 2009, 10:59:56 PM
here is a link to the explanation

http://www.gizmogeezer.com/p30.htm (http://www.gizmogeezer.com/p30.htm)


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: DaddyO on May 05, 2009, 04:07:17 AM
Not entirely sure I want to draw attention to this can of worms, but an open forum is probably the place to do it :-\

I understand the rules call for an 'unmodified' commercial prop - The GG prop is commercially available so technically should be legal; however if some enterprising individual were to re-pitch (ie increase) the pitch of a available props they would give an increased performance and become the 'must use' items...

A difficult one... sanding blades to balance (legal?), scraping prop blades (not legal?), trimming blades for balance (not legal?).

I think that GG have it right when they talk about the spirit of the rules - like timekeeping our conscience keeps us legal ::)



Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Mooney on May 05, 2009, 08:13:19 AM
I don't fly P30, but I thought this GG set up was permitted after some debate. Might've changed.

moon


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: danberry on May 05, 2009, 09:58:48 AM
The Gizmo-Geezer prop is legal.


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Pit on May 05, 2009, 10:25:46 AM
There WAS a big ballyhoo over the GG, but thankfully blew away.

Pete


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: DaddyO on May 05, 2009, 02:03:02 PM
Sorry guys, I didn't express myself very clearly :-[

(AND clearly missed the debate/discussion/ballyhoo about the GG prop - which I have got NO PROBLEM with) :)

My concern is that because this unit IS allowed it may be that another supplier starts to supply props that are improved by repitching or increasing the pitch to give a longer run...

Being aware of the potential distortion of the rules BEFORE it happens is the best way of making sure that we keep the event the one we know and love. (Take a look at what's is now happening with radio DT's and the flap that the rule makers are in over that, because although the potential was there the door wasn't closed earlier)

I fly a fair bit of P30 and love the ease of the event (Indeed I still fly my first ever free flight model which was a P30)

I'd just like to make sure that the playing field stays level and accessable to beginners ;)


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on May 05, 2009, 02:18:19 PM
DaddyO, I agree with you, in that I would really like to see the P-30 event as simple as possible. It was supposed to be an entry level event, and I would like to see it that way. Unfortunately, people like to keep poking at things, trying to get the rules changed. I think the GG prop system will be fine.

I do think that sanding down one blade to get it balanced should be allowed. It certainly is easier than trying to add weight to one blade, or at least I think so. And a beginner can do do the sanding easily.

But.... I think we've strayed off the Boomer P-30 topic. I think Richard has done a great job on his model, and look forward to seeing his flight (fright ;D ) reports.

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: DaddyO on May 05, 2009, 02:22:54 PM
We have indeed - apologies Richard :-X

(thanks Caley) ;)


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Tweedy on May 06, 2009, 11:48:29 PM
The wing is done weight is 9.9 grams. I had some checkerboard tissue I thought I would try, it’s not that easy to work with, for one thing I usually attach tissue to a pre doped framework, by flooding thinner through the tissue, and rubbing it with my finger to adhere, with this stuff the red squares block the thinner, the red also tends to bleed a bit when you rub it. My AMA# and the Boomer logo are printed directly to the tissue got a little bit of red bleed around the #9 in the AMA # I gave the tissue a coat of about 30% dope before shrinking with alcohol I guess I should have given two coats over the printing to stop the bleeding.

Richard


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on May 07, 2009, 12:07:16 AM
Veeeery nice Richard. Guess I need to start printing my AMA number on my tissue also. I usually just use bond paper and glue it onto the fuse. TACKY!!!  ;D

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Tweedy on May 07, 2009, 07:50:45 PM
All done! 39.9g or 40.1g it's kind of hard to keep balanced on the scale. now I need to make a stuffing stick and blast tube, also need to build a new winding stooge, the one I have is a hand me down that is pretty rough on any poor model placed in it's jaws.
Next projects a "Miss World's Fair", a new Frank Zaic Falcon, to replace the one that went O.O.S. at Perris a few weeks ago, and a WWII scale maybe a Zero.

Richard


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: DaddyO on May 08, 2009, 03:14:25 AM
Very nice Richard ;D (Good weight too - currently part way through a new P30 myself)

Keep us posted on the other builds - never seen a 'Miss Worlds Fair' in the flesh and a Zero is a nice choice for a scale model...


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: JetPlaneFlyer on May 08, 2009, 03:56:12 AM
Nice build! Where did you get the checkerboard tissue?

Steve


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Tweedy on May 08, 2009, 11:01:19 AM
Thanks

I got the tissue at.

http://www.peck-polymers.com/store/Category.asp?Cguid={217D932A-C0C7-4068-BCC9-B8B04CC63CAD}&Category=BuildingMaterials%3ACoveringhere (http://www.peck-polymers.com/store/Category.asp?Cguid={217D932A-C0C7-4068-BCC9-B8B04CC63CAD}&Category=BuildingMaterials%3ACoveringhere)

this is the first time i have used it, a bit more challanging to use.

Richard


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Tweedy on May 13, 2009, 05:05:47 PM
Sent Clint Brooks this flight report for the Boomer.


Hi Clint

Test flew the Boomer out at Perris today, third flight, first with near full winds in the
cool, tissue sagging damp, pre sun morning, using 9.5g 4 strand 1/8" motor DTed at 4
1/2 min for a +5 min flight. Fun! Will post copy of this E-Mail on the Hip Pocket site.

Richard


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on May 13, 2009, 05:18:36 PM
Hi Richard, I was very happy to meet you this morning. Sorry I didn't spend more time yakking. Guess I was really involved with getting my Souper30 to fly.

Your flight sure sounds impressive. I will be happy to get two minutes with mine when built.

Clint, you seem to have a real winner in the Boomer. I also saw the Yardstick, and it is a, "I have to get one", thing. But I will have to wait until the second half of the year when I have some more mooooooney.  ;D


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: hoogie007 on May 14, 2009, 02:28:04 PM
Thanks for hosting the build of your kit Richard. Hopefully you did not have to hike very much to get your model back! You sure did a great job on the build and the covering looks hot too-can't wait to see it in person.

I'm looking forward to seeing the California locals at Lost HIlls this weekend for the Orbiteers joint meet. I'll be flying the MkII Boomer in P-30 this time. If nothing else, you get a good ice cream Sunday at some point in the contest-makes it kinda unique to see everyone stop flying and chow down like a bunch of kids at the local drug store!

Anyone building a Boomer that desires construction photos, just email me-I have many to share. And thank you Cayley for your kind comments. I hope your Boomer build goes smoothly too.

Clint :)


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Tweedy on May 17, 2009, 12:16:51 PM
I went to lost hills for the first time Sat. flew the Boomer in my first P-30 event I had easy 120s max on first to flights but launched into pretty bad sink on third flight for 108s and just missed the next round. Clint won the contest with maxes of 120s 120s 120s 150s 180s 210s his last flight was OOS and his Boomer was lost. Did not stay for the 5PM mass launch but Clint brought a back up Boomer I look forward to hearing how he did.

Richard


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on May 17, 2009, 12:24:14 PM
Hi Richard, Glad to hear you got a chance to fly elsewhere and have some fun. Sorry to hear you missed the second round, but then, you're probably in the contest learning curve like I am. I never knew about properly winding the motor or about thermals. I still haven't learned. Guess you have to have a desire to compete to really pursue those areas of our sport.

Look forward to seeing you out in Perris again.

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Tweedy on May 18, 2009, 03:32:19 PM
Clint sent me the following E-mail, looks like Boomers came in 1st and 3rd. I think 3rd place by a pilot that does not know what he is doing is a testament to the boomers design. Caley I wont be at Perris this Wed. maybe the next.

Richard

Hey Richard-
 
You ended up 3rd place in P-30. I have the little award plate that goes onto your plaque you got when you entered the contest. Congratulations-you did a fine job! Next time we need to make sure we lock up the top two slots!
 
Sunday seemed hotter than Saturday. The contest ended early at 2:00. I flew HLG and Large Rubber Cabin, taking first in both of those. I lost my tip launch glider on the fourth attempt, and had to finish with a javelin launch glider backup. Lee Hines lost a few maxes, otherwise I think he would have done us all in as usual. We had fun though-especially the two boys who flew with us in the junior category. They made more maxes than the old boys!
 Went through all my rubber stock. I have just enough for a few flights at Fairview this Sunday-see you there?
 
Clint


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on May 18, 2009, 03:38:23 PM
Richard, Big congrats on your placement. Looks like the Boomer loves the air. Will be looking forward to building mine starting in August or so. I'm not going to Perris this wednesday either. Just can't afford it. Hopefully I will be able to squeeze out the resources for the following week,or maybe the week after that.

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: hoogie007 on May 26, 2009, 02:20:15 PM
An update-

The lost Boomer was recovered over the weekend by a flyer involved with a subsequent contest at Lost Hills. In the interim, I have been busy engineering a wing pop-off setup to prevent a DT flyaway again. I have designed my solution to retrofit existing airplanes, and will eventually find it's way into the kit at the next update. I tested the mechanism on my second Boomer over the weekend and so far it appears to work well. I'm planning to create a process write-up for the retrofit along with the design information. This will be posted to the website (www.cbmodeldesigns.com (http://www.cbmodeldesigns.com)) at some point, and sent out to those who have purchased kits already for their consideration. I'll include some images on this thread later (I'm away from the home computer right now).

Be Free!
Clint  ;D


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on May 26, 2009, 02:26:14 PM
Thanks Clint, for going to all the trouble on the D/T redesign. You defintely put a lot of thought and effort into your designs. Guess the pop-off D/T should be out by the time I build mine. Of course, I am happy to hear you got your airplane back. Always nice to have that happen. Thank goodness for those who require chase bikes to track down their airplanes, and sometimes our errant ones.  :)

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: hoogie007 on September 29, 2009, 02:30:06 PM
News flash-the Boomer took first at the USFFC this past weekend at Lost Hills. The pop-up wing DT worked well and allowed recovery from some high flights. The airplane I used was mylar covered, Gizmo-Geezer front end and weighed 41 grams empty. I ran 6 X 3/32 Supersport at 6+ in. oz. torque each attempt. Motor runs were 90 sec plus in all cases-more than enough to gain plenty of altitude for max time. My streak ended on the sixth attempt when I launched into the backside of a weak thermal and came slightly short of max. That's pilot error though-you can't get it good every single time!

I'd love to hear from others who are flying their Boomer models in competition.

Clint Brooks
www.cbmodeldesigns.com


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on September 29, 2009, 05:26:10 PM
Clint, Great to hear how well the "Boomer" did. Big congrats,

Sorry to say, I've not yet started on mine. Just so many other things going on. Though I did manage to break two minutes with my P-30, called a Souper 30. This was the first over two minutes for me, and unfortunately, it almost was the last flight for the model. I was lucky and got it back because of Lee Hines and Larry Bagalini finding it. It was OOS at 8:38, and yes, no D/T. Of course, that will be my last flight without a D/T. ;D

Will try to build after I finish my Jimmie Allen Special.

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Tmat on September 29, 2009, 06:10:53 PM
Clint,
First off, well done!
A question, did you use the Czech prop with the Gizmo Geezer front end, or the stock re-pitched Gizmo prop?

Tony


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Tweedy on September 29, 2009, 10:23:20 PM
Hi Clint
Congrats: I was really eager to bring my Boomer and Miss World’s Fair to Lost Hills, but Flight tests on the MWF did not go well on Wed. at Perris. In getting ready to make up a bunch of P-30 motors, I discovered that when emptying the box I transported the Boomer back from Colorado in of the foam peanut packing material; I had thrown out my Gizmo front end along with the peanuts. My other 9.5” GG prop was attached to my YardStik that was lost in CO. Maybe next P-30 contest we can have a Boomer 1-2-3 finish.
Richard


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Pit on September 30, 2009, 07:35:13 AM
Hi Clint
Congrats: I was really eager to bring my Boomer and Miss World’s Fair to Lost Hills, but Flight tests on the MWF did not go well on Wed. at Perris. In getting ready to make up a bunch of P-30 motors, I discovered that when emptying the box I transported the Boomer back from Colorado in of the foam peanut packing material; I had thrown out my Gizmo front end along with the peanuts. My other 9.5” GG prop was attached to my YardStik that was lost in CO. Maybe next P-30 contest we can have a Boomer 1-2-3 finish.
Richard

OUCH!!


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: hoogie007 on September 30, 2009, 02:14:09 PM
Thanks for the feedback everyone. Tony-the front end was stock Gizmo with the repitched Peck prop. Richard-well buddy you just hang in there!

 ;D

Clint

Cayley-when you start building feel free to contact me on any questions. I'll also meet with you for help trimming first flights if you wish.


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on November 06, 2009, 08:56:42 PM
Clint,

I finally broke out the parts of my "Boomer", and right now I am just looking at the plan and the parts, trying to familiarise myself with everything. Sure are a lot of parts to this model. Will take me a couple of days to carefully remove the laser cut parts from the sheets.

I will spend the next day or so just comparing parts to plan and reading the instructions. I do notice that there are two rear motor peg positions. What I am wondering is if these positions need to be reinforced with 1/64 ply circles. It actually looks like some kind of circles were glued in, but not quite sure.

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on November 07, 2009, 01:10:40 PM
I was surprised that it didn't take as long to cut the parts out as I'd thought. Still quite painstaking to ensure you don't cut up the wrong things.

I managed to lay out the wing parts. It will be a new way of building for me. I'm not used to washout tabs on the ribs, and it will take some careful planning to ensure I get things done correctly. Since I build with magnets, it might be a bit easier, but will have to see.

I will continue to remove the parts for the nose block, stab and fin, and then bag them. Shown is the picture of the wing parts, ready for assembly.

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: hoogie007 on November 11, 2009, 02:34:52 PM
Cayley - the fuselage already includes the reinforcement patches you see on the fuselage drawing as reference lines. I showed them as they do appear on the surfaces of the model as received - they probably don't need to be shown.

I'm looking forward to your impressions as you build the model!

Clint


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on November 11, 2009, 05:34:00 PM
Clint, I am still puzzling things out. The built in shims on the spars and ribs are giving me fits, trying to understand how they work. I guess I need to trial fit a panel and see how they go together. I get the feeling that they will need some angles sanded in, in order to fit properly.

Those extra long LE's and TE's I just cut off and sanded after setting the gussets per instructions.

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on November 11, 2009, 11:34:27 PM
Clint, I test fitted the right wing tip panel, and finally see how things are going to go together. Test fitting at least one of the panels is probably something everyone should do when building something with built in shims on the pieces. It provides a good visual allowing understanding of how it is supposed to go together.

I think I can now start gluing things together. :)

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on November 13, 2009, 10:12:36 PM
The test fitting didn't help me a bit when I tried gluing the parts together. I broke over half of them on the right wing panel. I will remove the washout tabs on the left wingtip panel and fit together flat. I will then induce the washout with shims when shrinking and doping the tissue. I probably will have to throw away the right wing panel and build from scratch as it is very crooked and every place there is a slot on the TE is broken due to the soft wood.

Clint, I'm sure that most people can build this airplane without any trouble, but I am not one of them. It is definitely a quality kit. I would imagine that most of the wood must be 4-6#, but this is too soft for me with my ham hands.

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Tweedy on November 14, 2009, 12:21:10 AM
Caley

Sorry you are having trouble with your Boomer build is yours the MK II? The structure is really quite strong once built. what kind of glue are you building with?

Richard


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on November 14, 2009, 09:07:30 AM
Yes, It is the MkII. I'm using Titebond glue, which is pretty much what the instructions recommend. The problem is that I've tried this prop up type of building to induce washout, and was never successful at it. The parts never got aligned properly, no matter how careful I was. I use jigs and everything in creation to keep things just right, only to unpin and find them out of whack, and needing sanding in order to not have lumps. My problem is I really don't see all that well again. I've another cataract forming in my left eye and everything is getting blurry in that eye. Not bad enough yet for surgery though.

The right wing panel came out lumpy, which needed sanding, but I think it will do. I will just build the best I know and hope it comes out fairly well.

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Olbill on November 14, 2009, 11:31:58 AM
I have to use a headband magnifier for any sort of precision alignment of parts on my indoor models. I take it to flying sessions as well so that I don't come home with horrible looking field repairs.


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Tweedy on November 14, 2009, 11:35:14 AM
Caley

It has been my experience that for light weight models PVA type glues (Titebond Etc.) may not be the best Choice. Have you tried Ambroid, Sigment, Duco, or Testors? They make sanding much easier are lighter and the process of pre-gluing the joints tends to strengthens the balsa making it easier to handle without damage without leaving a hard spot that will make sanding difficult.

Have you tried using a jewelers Eye Loop For close up work I can’t do without some sort of magnification stronger than my reading Glasses.

Richard


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on November 14, 2009, 11:52:50 AM
Guys, My problem is just understanding something with this many tiny parts. I'm too used to the older designed models, boxy types. I just gave up trying to understand the instructions and am winging it, based on what I read on the plans. This will probably be my last type of model like this. I had visions of going to tube fuses and what non, but will stick with the older designs. Much easier to build.

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: hoogie007 on November 16, 2009, 02:50:37 PM
Caley - I'm just getting back to this thread, sorry to hear of your difficulties.

One thing to be aware of when you decided to forgo the standoff tabs on the outboard ribs. When I developed the wing design for the built in washout this involved a bit of rotation of the rib about the plane of the main spar. This was to allow the trailing edge of the rib to be in the washout location and not have a preload built into the wing structure. If you remove these tabs and build flat on your board, you are going to force a small amount of twist in the spar using the ribs as the tool to apply the pressure. This may appear to be a fit-up issue of some sort, implying a need to force fit and possibly breaking the rib at the spar slot. Is this where the parts appear to break?

As for the tabs on the spar lower edges, these are simply developed in place as shims for the spar to match the undercamber of the ribs as you build on the plan. You have this as a built in tool, or you have to apply shims under the spar to elevate it up to where it mates with all the ribs. The tabs are simply the most accurate solution utilizing a CAD application and laser technology accuracy.

I do not want you to be a disappointed customer.

Clint


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: danberry on November 16, 2009, 07:17:44 PM
Clint, are you telling us that the spar notches are cut at the appropriate increasing angle to allow the washout?
If you answer yes, i'll say that we should all bow to you, as we are not worthy.


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on November 16, 2009, 07:47:58 PM
Clint, I kept the tabs that were under the rib camber because I knew they helped from me crushing the rib when I put in the 1/16 sq strips atop the wing.

What I did was remove the other tabs and build flat. I had to use, on all slots regardless of which way I built, a 1/16 file to open up all slots so the wood fit without breaking a part. Unfortunately, some broke anyway. I'm assuming you used contest grade 4-6# wood. I think your design is wonderful and the wood selection is probably quite good also, but I am not good with contest weight wood. It is my fault I cannot put anything together that delicate without breaking things.

I like to build robust, and is one reason most of my models I build from scratch the size of a P-30 are usually 3 to 10 grams overweight. Remember what I've said. I don't like flying contests. I just fly for fun. If I get a nice 2 minute plus flight from one of my models I am delighted. I am also delighted if I just break one minute. That said, I do try to do better, but my building will always weigh down my chances of getting better times.

So, don't feel it is anything you may have done. Your design is probably one of the best, if not the best out there for a P-30. I am just ham handed when it comes to delicate airplanes. One reason I don't usually build anything smaller than a P-30 anymore. I've got a Majestyk on the shelf I can also build, and a Potent 30, so I've plenty to do when I find the time.

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on November 17, 2009, 11:33:09 AM
Well, I just tried joining the wing panels and found not a one is straight. Talk about frustration. I will hand cut more ribs and hope I can get things to fit this time. What I built was totally unusable and could not be fixed, and is now in the bin. Somehow I am going to figure out how to build this type of wing.

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: hoogie007 on November 17, 2009, 02:32:29 PM
danberry - yes, the spar slots are developed at an increasing angle at each outboard rib station to accommodate the washout without twisting the spar.

One thing that is hard to control as a kit producer at my level is the tolerance of the wood thickness obtained. Using CAD and laser you can develop very exacting dimensions and accuracy in cutting. If 1/16 slots can't accommodate every variation in tolerance that appears in materials used then filing additional relief is appropriate. In other words, I can hold the slot dimensions to a tight tolerance, but the wood thickness used for the mating part may vary throughout each batch of parts made and simply can't be overcome economically. I do take time to test build laser work and adjust for any significant fit up issues before releasing a kit, and I've been fairly well impressed with the process so far.

I do recommend careful dry fitting of all parts and assemblies. I encourage you to pay attention to the tolerance issues that manifest and handle them in such a way you do not induce pre-loading in the structure or cause damage, especially when using very light weight balsa. This is where model building becomes a careful art form! You will be rewarded with a quality result that flies as well as you hoped.

Let me know if you need rib patterns to make new parts from scratch Caley. I can send you the laser layouts full size.

Clint


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: faif2d on November 17, 2009, 02:42:29 PM
007, why not laser cut the sticks as well as the slots. That way if you tell the folks to put the burned edges into the slot they should match to within a few thousands. DPC does this in their kits I believe.


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Graiskye on November 17, 2009, 04:15:33 PM
Hey Caley, sorry too hear of your eye troubles. Did you happen to see Ol Bill's post regarding the headband magnifier, LOTS of modelers use these for small delicate work, or just too get a real close view of the parts, fitting, and such. Might be something to consider.

That being said, I can understand your wariness for raised trailing edges, if you cannot see well enough to really line up the rib to trailing edge fit, then yes it will be problematic all the way, thus your technique of using the building board so you have that flat reference, that you have learned to trust, makes sense to me. There's nothing wrong with building your own way, you gave the technique a shot, probably knowing full the outcome to be expected, and so it was, full points for the attempt, using light contest wood is hard enough for most, trust me, no worries there.

Hope you'll continue on, I think once you get the wing sorted you'll be home free, and I know you can do it. Go with what you know.

I've seen many of your models, they are always top drawer stuff.

And think about the magnifier, they look like they would be awesome to use, I think you can even get lighted ones and such, probably custom airbrushed finished, ala your Flying Aces Moth, now that would be cool. I loved your moth by the way, awesome plane, and don't worry bout having it a bit nose heavy, mine is, stuck some plasticine to the tail wire in shape of a tail wheel, and it still flys FAR too well for me to fly it much.

Peace,
-Grais.


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on November 17, 2009, 05:05:59 PM
Hi Grais, Thanks so much for your kind words of encouragement. I am sending what I have of the Boomer back to Clint, as I finally decided that it was causing me too much grief. Better for my sanity. Somewhere in the mess I have in my storage shed, I may have one of those magnifier headsets. I used to do stone cutting on a diamond wheel until my eyes gave out for such precise work. Getting older is in some ways great, and in other ways, a real drag when it comes to health like vision and the pesky Sir Arthuritis ;D that constantly keeps me company. Sir Charlie Horse also decides once in a while to visit me. Gee! What an honour. ;D

As for my next project, I was building the Boomer because I needed to replace my squashed Souper 30. So I've broken out a Majestyk, and am not in the process of studying it and weighing wood. I will start another thread on the Majestyk. I've heard from many that this model is very well designed and flys great. Designer is Thom Greenhalge.

Caley On to less frustrating endeavours, I hope.


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Oldtime Flyer on November 17, 2009, 05:36:48 PM
Hi Grais, Thanks so much for your kind words of encouragement. I am sending what I have of the Boomer back to Clint, as I finally decided that it was causing me too much grief. Better for my sanity. Somewhere in the mess I have in my storage shed, I may have one of those magnifier headsets. I used to do stone cutting on a diamond wheel until my eyes gave out for such precise work. Getting older is in some ways great, and in other ways, a real drag when it comes to health like vision and the pesky Sir Arthuritis ;D that constantly keeps me company. Sir Charlie Horse also decides once in a while to visit me. Gee! What an honour. ;D

As for my next project, I was building the Boomer because I needed to replace my squashed Souper 30. So I've broken out a Majestyk, and am now in the process of studying it and weighing wood. I will start another thread on the Majestyk. I've heard from many that this model is very well designed and flys great. Designer is Thom Greenhalge.

Caley On to less frustrating endeavours, I hope.

That be me.... I'll check in regular. The Majestyk wing is also built with the inside edge of the TE lifted. If you don't want to build it that way, build it FLAT! It will still fly very well. If you have questions Caley, don't hesitate to ask. I'll be around.

Enjoy, Thom


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: danberry on November 17, 2009, 06:18:30 PM
Clint, i understand what you mean about thickness of wood. It gets sanded to thickness and light wood just makes the problem worse. And, a rainy day can have an effect on wood. And I am awestruck at the increasing angle technique.

Caley, here's a trick for fitting ribs into notches. You've gotta check that the notch is wide enough. Check with a scrap off-cut from the sheet that ribs were on. Don't fool with the rib until the notch is good. Emery boards are very handy for making notches bigger.


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on November 17, 2009, 06:27:09 PM
Dan, I've a file that is exactly 1'16 thick with rasp on all four sides. It's perfect for my making of notches. I did use it to widen the notches on the Boomer as mentioned. But I am finished with the Boomer and moving on to save my sanity. I am two dimensional in my visualisation. That makes it difficult to build things like the Boomer which are set up in three dimensions for building.

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Olbill on November 18, 2009, 01:53:08 AM
here is a link to the explanation

http://www.gizmogeezer.com/p30.htm (http://www.gizmogeezer.com/p30.htm)

Out of curiosity I just went to this site and looked at the description of the GG front end. I had it in my mind that this unit would cost $50 or more with all the technology that is involved. The $9.95 price seems amazing. I'd like to build a Boomer but there are a bunch of other projects ahead of it in line.


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: danberry on November 18, 2009, 09:03:29 AM
The GG front end is a brilliant piece of engineering.


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: faif2d on November 18, 2009, 09:44:59 AM
I had one of the flip up magnifiers that I inherited from my dad. I did not like using it so, on a whim, I purchased a pair of 1.50 magnification reading glasses from Wal Mart. I simply put those on over my regular glasses. It works a treat! Kind of like having trifocals that you can take off. Caley give that a try if you want, I think I paid $7 for my last pair.


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: DerekMc on November 18, 2009, 12:03:13 PM
The GG front end is a brilliant piece of engineering.

So true!


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on November 18, 2009, 12:12:51 PM
Steve, I've seen those magnifying glasses you describe. I will give it a try next month when I have some cash for it, that is, if they have something that will work for me.

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Graiskye on November 18, 2009, 04:59:17 PM
Quote
Out of curiosity I just went to this site and looked at the description of the GG front end. I had it in my mind that this unit would cost $50 or more with all the technology that is involved. The $9.95 price seems amazing. I'd like to build a Boomer but there are a bunch of other projects ahead of it in line.

Yes they are a great deal, when you consider that you will pay 3.00 for a 9.5" prop, they are even a better deal.

I think Orv Olm(the creator, Mr Gizmo hisself) wanted a low price that the average guy can deal with and they work every bit as awesome as you would think it SHOULD.

Caley, don't sweat it, you tried, move on to brighter pastures. You do seem to have a knack for attracting the kit designers, as in Oltime Flyer there, hint hint...(Majestyk).

That said should the Majestyk not really beckon you at this moment, there are a number of shall we say beefier P-30's, there's that one that I thin was designed by Bob Schlosberg(or maybe he just modeled it), its got a great big ol classic type fuse, and is said to be a great flyer, I know I saw it on a thread here or at SFA (Ill try to find it).

Then there is always the roll your own approach, something I know you could take on Caley, there's not too much too a P-30, fuse, 30" wing, and a tail section, you might even be able to make use of old parts, I'm just throwing ideas out there. But the Majestyk is a awesome kit, if your stoked to build it, go for it.

And have fun,
-Grais.


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: Graiskye on November 18, 2009, 11:01:09 PM
For the sake of completeness(?)...

The Model I was trying to think of was the Dippity Doo, by Dick Williamson.

Heres a link to the Windy Sock bit on it.... http://www.windysock.net/09Sep%20article%20DH71%20Tiger%20Moth_Dippity-Doo.htm

Looks like a fun model, probably bang out a nice light one without too much fight. I saw a pic of the one by B.S. and it was nice, I seem to think it had LG on it but, you see so many pics of models nowadays!

-G


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: crashcaley on November 18, 2009, 11:26:20 PM
Thanks Grais for the link to the Dippidy-Do plan. I kind of like the fatso looking airplanes of the past. They have character. I read the article, and it seems that if you don't build really light, flights aren't that long with a P-30 10 gram motor. But it does give consistent flights and is apparently a blast to fly.

Caley


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: jswain on April 06, 2013, 05:12:20 PM
Sent Clint Brooks this flight report for the Boomer.
Hi Clint,Test flew the Boomer out at Perris today, third flight, first with near full winds in the
cool, tissue sagging damp, pre sun morning, using 9.5g 4 strand 1/8" motor DTed at 4
1/2 min for a +5 min flight. Fun! Will post copy of this E-Mail on the Hip Pocket site.
Richard

Hello Richard and Clint.
Richard, fast forward a few years and i had a similar experience today out at Perris. With my newly finish Boomer i did a few test flights with sanding the front of the fuse motor tube and by the 4th flight the model was DT'ing off @750 turns of the motor. The fifth flight was a success, dt'ing from about 100yards high and time to pack it in with a big smile on my face ;D.

I dont' have anything to add to these Boomer build logs but i will say i learned and relearned a lot building this Boomer "by the book" and Clints instructions. This is my first open frame rubber power FF model built in 20years and i feel very lucky to have picked this model.

I did substitute the kit prop for the Peck prop(lighter by 1 gram and belief to be more compatable with my low power/long run= less drag/more altitude philosophy) and 3 full loops of 1/8" rubber. The DT is a hobbyspecialties.com spring and medium viscous timer combination - when stretched to about 3.1" you can get a slow and dependable 2 minute dt time using the Boomer mousetrap DT - this was something Clint talks about and was new to me as i was a 'burning fuse' user.

Thanks again for the Boomer build and tips posting and model kit, john s.


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: hoogie007 on April 08, 2013, 02:27:46 PM
Very cool John.  I'm glad you are on the road to having a great experience with your Boomer.

An FYI-the design is being upgraded to a MkIII configuration right now, and will be re-introduced later this year.  I'm after enhancements to make it easier to produce and also reduce weight, incorporate the wing D/T concept and other minor mods to simplify and improve performance.

In the meantime, keep 'em flying!

Thermals
Clint


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: MikeM on October 12, 2013, 06:36:40 PM
Guys/Gals, Clint now has a MK III version out for this design.
as a dedicated AMA gas flyer i have never had time to fly rubber, but this design sets a standard in my book, and has hooked me into rubber.
the kit is unbelievable.
i have always built from plans, but if FF kits were all done like this one, i'd build from kits anyday.
the wood selection and hardware is top quality and you can tell that Clint goes to great lengths to see to it that it is a trouble free build. even the ribs for the rudder have the angle cut in so that one just has to dry fit, then glue it up......Duco cement here too guys/gals.
i have 2 of the kits and wasn't going to start until a couple weeks from now, but like i said, the craftsmanship that went into the kit just begs to be built, and so they are on the board.
i will be glad to do a followup on the finishing of these 2 models.

i was also lucky to meet with Clint at the last USFFC's this year and watched his and a friends Boomer fly..........all i can say is, be ready for a marathon of flights..........this thing hooks thremals like shootin fish in a barrel.

i'll be asking Clint later for permission to scale one up for the Big E event..........should make a killer model in that size.


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: hoogie007 on October 23, 2013, 12:15:06 AM
Mike is very kind with his endorsment of the Boomer-thank you very much.  I would like to announce the Boomer Mk3 is now available to order through my website at www.cbmodeldesigns.com.  Many thanks as well to Joe Mekina for his hard work in upgrading the site for the new version and general revamping.

I have upgraded this design by incorporating the wing pop-up D/T system as a standard design feature.  I've also incorporated the Gizmogeezer freewheeler prop as standard equipment as I have nothing but praise for the advanatages this device offers for performance and consistency.

The general changes have resulted in a design that is just about guaranteed to build underweight coming out of the box if built and equipped as shown.  Some build features are simplified such as the horizontal stab and a different stab platform that also serves to anchor the fin, much as done for the Monarch design.  The wing and empennage are the same with the exception the wing has been updated a bit for the D/T features at the center section.

As for flying qualities-these remain top notch.  The first contest outing was the recent USFFC at Lost Hills and the Mk3 did not disappoint.  Please visit the website for a wealth of images and data for the new Mk3 Boomer.

Many thanks to all of you who have purchased kits-your support and responses have been very encouraging toward keeping this little operation going.

Thermals

Clint Brooks


Title: Re: C.B. Model Design's Boomer p-30
Post by: hoogie007 on October 23, 2013, 12:32:55 AM
Here are some images of the Boomer Mk3.  I had to water down the file size to load here.  There are many more on the CB Model Designs website, along with construction step photos to look over as well.

Cheers!

Clint