Hip Pocket Builders' Forum

Indoor Free Flight Forum => Bostonian => Topic started by: FreeFlightModeller on March 10, 2008, 05:14:17 PM



Title: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: FreeFlightModeller on March 10, 2008, 05:14:17 PM
Mike Stuart is well known to many for his fine free flight scale models and his website ffscale.co.uk, so a Bostonian is a slight departure from the usual.
I was lucky (and perhaps slightly cheeky!) to be the first to build his 'Sorta Senator' Bostonian design.
As will be obvious to many, the model is based on the classic KK Senator. To keep the characteristic single wheel UC and satisfy the Bostonian rules at the same time, Mike has incorporated the wheels at the rear in the sub-fins.


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: FreeFlightModeller on March 10, 2008, 05:16:45 PM
Here is a close-up of the wheels in the sub-fins.


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: FreeFlightModeller on March 10, 2008, 05:19:37 PM
Here is the finished framework without the 'hardware'


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: FreeFlightModeller on March 10, 2008, 05:23:54 PM
The balsa I used for some parts was very light and unfortunately lacking in stiffness.
This, combined with a bit of clumsy over shrinking of the tissue, caused warping in the stab that is just apparent in the shots of the finished model. My faults have since been corrected!


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: FreeFlightModeller on March 10, 2008, 05:28:56 PM
The prop used is a 'Clem' type sent over by Al Backstrom - this has proved to be very effective.
A friend copied the prop and saw a 15 second improvement in the performance of his already effective Bostonian. Even on it's first outing I managed 1m 15s with the Sorta Senator - a distinct improvement against my own 14g Bostonian designs ( though I haven't tried the prop with these yet)


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: FreeFlightModeller on March 10, 2008, 05:38:11 PM
I flew the Sorta Senator in a fun competition at Impington in the UK at the weekend and with my warp problems sorted out the model was a much more predictable and steady flyer.
Impington is only a small hall and is always very busy with every inch of the perimeter filled with flying tables. I never quite got the motor size 'tuned in' to the ceiling height so I didn't realise the full potential of the model, but by the afternoon the model was returning 1 minute plus flights every time.
My 3 flight total was 3m 12s which I think was 3 seconds short of the winner.


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: FreeFlightModeller on March 10, 2008, 05:40:40 PM
Thanks to Peter Blackmore for the flying photo :)

Plans can be downloaded from Mike's site at:

http://www.ffscale.co.uk/plans17.htm (http://www.ffscale.co.uk/plans17.htm)

I have really enjoyed building and flying this model and I am sure that many others will do the same.


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: outofbalance on May 16, 2008, 06:21:18 PM
Hi FFM,

I like your Sorta Senator a lot; the model is so clean and fresh. The reverse tricycle gear is a good touch. Great photo in action too.

I downloaded the plan some weeks ago. Stuart has a good model here. no?

Kudos,

Outofbalance


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: crashcaley on July 03, 2008, 11:55:16 AM
FFModeller, That's a really kewl looking airplane. Mike created another winner.

Caley


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: PeeTee on July 03, 2008, 12:49:28 PM
Caley

I think it would be fair to say that Albert Hatful (the original designer for KK) came up with a lovely design, and that Mike has done justice to it with his Bostonian adaptation. We hope to see your full size version soon - hint, hint! ;)

Peter


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: crashcaley on July 03, 2008, 01:17:39 PM
Peter, I've been in the beginning of the month throes of building and rennovation on my house. Modeling was put aside until today. Is it allowed to build the full sized Senator and the Bostonian one at the same time? :) I may just do that. But as I said before, I am a slow builder and am still trying to finish one Jumbo project that is taking up all the room. It's my Comet Aeronca Chief for R/C. Oops! Sorry!  :-[ I didn't mean to say a bad word.  ;D

Caley


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: FreeFlightModeller on July 03, 2008, 03:26:09 PM
Thanks Caley ... I look forward to any sized Senator that you decide to build!

Russ


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: crashcaley on July 16, 2008, 09:53:44 PM
Russ, I've started both the Senator and the SortaSenator. Got the tips for the SS done. I used two 1/32x1/16
strips for each and once bent, glued them together. I don't know the building rules for this class of model. I does look like everything is 1/16 square. Is that normal for Bostonians? Is it safe to fly these outdoors in calm air. I don't have an indoor site to fly, just the dry lake bed.

Caley


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: Wout Moerman on July 17, 2008, 03:05:31 AM
Caley, 1/16 sq is normal for bostonians. You can fly them outdoor and there are seperate weight rules for outdoor bostonians. I believe usually 14 grams is used for outdoor but I also remember having seen 10 grams. If you fly outdoors just use stronger 1/16 sq and you'll be OK.


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: albackstrom on July 17, 2008, 11:48:44 AM
Some of the groups I have flown with have a 14 gm incoor comp. 14 gms make avery easy model to build. I built several, I tried but never got a 7gm model, about 10 gms was my lightest. You can check both indoor and outdoor rules in the in the ""Bostonians are a Blast" thread on the SFA site.


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: crashcaley on July 17, 2008, 01:16:01 PM
Probably won't even get 14 grams, but it really doesn't matter, as long as I can get it to fly. I am using 6lb balsa for everything except load bearing places, where I am using 8.5lb. That just happened to be the weight of a sheet I had. Hope that is strong enough for the load bearing areas. At the moment, I am busy on my Senator wing, but will swap back and forth between the two as I go.

Caley


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: FreeFlightModeller on July 17, 2008, 05:25:59 PM
Caley,

Only just spotted your posts - Just lately I am deliberately not as involved with my modelling. I am still as keen but I have just got to concentrate on work at the moment :-\

Thankfully your questions have been answered. The SortaSenator was the first 14g Bostonian that I got exactly to that weight. I have flown it outdoors but the trim would have to be altered in this particular case as I have it flying quite close to the stall indoors and it is easily disturbed outside. Out of my other Bostonians my 'Oo La La' is my favourite for flying outside - and this flies with the same trim both in and outside.

Russ


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: crashcaley on July 17, 2008, 06:25:23 PM
Russ, No apologies necessary. Everyone needs to make a living and have a life other than aeromodeling. I even have things other than our hobby. I am in the process of putting the wing together on the SS. My first attempt at joining a laminated wingtip was a failure. So I am doing another wingtip lamination which will take me a couple of days. It's good that I tried the one I did, as I found a defect in it at the tip and it would have failed when the tip hit the ground on a finished model. Think I will make several of the wingtips just in case I botch another. As I don't compete, or at least not very much, I am not going to worry about getting the weight perfect. I need to learn how to build these delicate airplanes. Other than Dimescale airplanes this is the first with all 1/16 wood. I will post a pic once I manage to get the flying surfaces framed.

Caley


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: crashcaley on July 26, 2008, 01:02:01 PM
Just to let you know, I am building both the Senator and SortaSenator on one thread at
http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=805.0
Figured why not build both on the same thread. I probably will have a pic of the fuses today. Am near completion of the SS fuse.

Caley


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: crashcaley on July 27, 2008, 03:21:47 PM
Russ, I've got the framework of the SortaSenator done. It will have a removable wing. I do have a question about the prop. How did you make it? Seems that if it is working for you, it must be a good one. I would love to try making one myself, but am worse than a beginner when it comes to making props. Do you have some pictures, procedures, and a list of materials and tools that you used? This model will be flown out of doors. My weight without nose block for the framework came out to 7.2 grams. I still have to make the front U/C and bend the wires for the rear wheels.

Caley


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: FreeFlightModeller on August 17, 2008, 05:27:45 PM
Sorry Caley - I've done it again! I remember reading your post now ... and making a mental note to reply ASAP!
I made the Clem prop using info provided by Al Backstrom.
I can post all the pictures that I posted across the 'Bostonians are a blast' thread at SFA.

Here is the info that Al sent (he also kindly sent an example prop)





Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: FreeFlightModeller on August 17, 2008, 05:32:14 PM
One of the main reasons that I mainly post on SFA is the ease at which I lose track of what I have done and where! (apology part 2!)

Here is an animated GIF file of the prop that Al sent - you will notice from this and the above drawing that the prop is aggresively pitched. It certainly seems to work, especially with lighter Bostonians.


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: FreeFlightModeller on August 17, 2008, 05:35:41 PM
For mine I used Yoghurt pots from Asda in the UK .. which is owned by Wal Mart, so I suppose things are similar in the US?


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: crashcaley on August 17, 2008, 05:46:41 PM
Hi Russ, Again you're apologising for no reason at all. I am now here at Hip Pocket because of SFA having so many difficulties, and now difficult to post pictures. Presently I am on hold for both my Senator and SortaSenator until I receive my new eyeglasses. My eyes got so bad that I couldn't see, and still can't see, well enough to join two pieces of balsa, let alone do any other detail work. I combined both builds at this location on Hip Pocket http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=805.0 Thought I might as well since they are related. :) Thanks for the diagram of the prop. I will try to learn how to make one of those.

Caley


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: Ray on January 16, 2013, 11:18:28 AM
Hi all,

I am in the process of making one of these and was pondering where the CG is on this model. There isnt one shown on the plan I have and was wondering if anyone could share their experience. Also, what size and how much rubber do you guy's recommend to begin with.
Thanks for any help and advice!


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: FreeFlightModeller on January 17, 2013, 02:57:35 PM
Hi Ray,

I'm afraid I can't remember exactly where the CG ended up ... only that I seem to remember that it was a little behind the half chord mark. Each model will be different slightly so I would recommend substituting the prop with some weight and doing some test glides. Mark where the CG was for the best glide then take the weight off and put the prop back. Then add weight as appropriate to get the CG back where you marked it. Hope this makes sense?

I usually start trimming a Bostonian with a 900mm long strand of 1/8" rubber made up into a 450mm loop. Working up to around 600 turns will start to show if you need a thinner motor ... as I remember, my Sorta Senator was best indoors on something like a 110 thou motor.


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: Ray on January 17, 2013, 03:41:02 PM
Thanks for the reply Russ!
This is my first indoor. A local club host's an indoor contest this time of year and I wanted to get in on the action so thanks for the information.
I'm thinking I can cover the fuselage and wing with Esaki and thinly dope, but I'm not sure the best method for the stabaliser as is seems very delicate (more so than the rest of the model). Any technique you could recommend?
Also, can you give any details on the prop hub? I want to go ahead with your 'yogurt cup' prop but I'm not sure of the prop shaft/hub assy .

Thanks again!
Ray


Title: Re: Sorta Senator Bostonian - a Mike Stuart design.
Post by: FreeFlightModeller on January 17, 2013, 04:11:57 PM
Ray,

For delicate areas I pre-shrink the tissue with water on an old picture frame ... then used thinned dope (30 to 50% dope) (... EDIT doped after the tissue has been applied and water shrunk again.)
I did have trouble with the stab ... it did 'pringle', but I think I skipped the pre-shrinking. I added an extra spar to the stab in the end.