Hip Pocket Builders' Forum

Events and Competitions (All Model Categories) => Postal & E-Postal Competitions => Topic started by: Alexandre Cruz on January 03, 2017, 09:25:52 AM



Title: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Alexandre Cruz on January 03, 2017, 09:25:52 AM
Dear gentlemen,

The 2017 tiny gliders postal contest is on and is hosted at:

http://tinygliders.blogspot.com.br/

Rules are very simple and so are the models: 6" and 8" CLG and no restrictions on the catapult.

I will do my best to keep the blog updated so times, pictures, plans and comments can be posted directly on the blog, here or sent me via e-mail at [email protected]

I hope you have fun building and flying these little thermal riders.

Alex


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: skycafe on January 03, 2017, 01:03:05 PM
Great stuff, but CLG only and no HLG?


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Mefot on January 03, 2017, 01:32:40 PM
Hope you will keep us all updated on here too  :)


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: JohnOSullivan on January 03, 2017, 02:42:32 PM
Thanks Alexandre for reviving the Tiny Gliders contest.
The original idea came from the prolific RC Sailplane designer Harley Michaelis who in the early 2000's designed a WhipperWhiz 6 inch for his grandson and held an international, then intergalactic postal contest. Harley is now past his mid 90's and still flying.
We developed this postal contest for 6" and 8" HLG and Catapult classes and had a lot of fun with them.
I ran it for a few years and I think it was Alexandre who took it over. It changed hands a few times and it's nice to see it revived.
The following links from the early days include photos and plans which may inspire you :


http://www.windandwavemodels.com/Postal2003.html
http://www.windandwavemodels.com/Postal2004.html
http://www.windandwavemodels.com/Postal2006.html
http://www.windandwavemodels.com/Postal2007.html

Now get out and fly.


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: skycafe on January 03, 2017, 04:24:36 PM
Thanks John!


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Alexandre Cruz on January 03, 2017, 08:05:06 PM
Thank you John!

I hope we can revive this fun event. I will keep updates flowing as well as posting model design as I recieve from participants.

Skycafe, HLG was not very popular as I believe average age of participants is incrementing. But if there are interested competitors I will be glad to include, please let me know.


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: John on January 04, 2017, 09:54:57 AM
Hi John,

Nice to see this postal contest being revised again it is great fun. Will have to get my gliders out of the box and check them over even build new ones they are so easy to make, just use wood out of the scrap box, which I have a lot of. John when weather gets better we should put some times in looks like we have until July, should be nice and warm with light winds before then, well I hope but who knows in Nova Scotia.

John


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Maxout on January 04, 2017, 10:32:01 AM
Oh wait, this is a thing again? Sweeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!

Hope and I will get ours primed for battle...


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Steven Wrigley on January 04, 2017, 11:07:47 AM
YES! Im in!


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Yak 52 on January 04, 2017, 11:26:55 AM
Oooo tempting!  :D


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Alexandre Cruz on January 04, 2017, 07:44:16 PM
Very good to see the contest still has happy and motivated participants!

I have done my  first sequence of flights with the MicroMat as pictured:

47s - First flight, stalling pattern. Did not looked for lift but got some good air for the last 20s

74s - Light lift and better gliding pattern. Low launch due to positioning, unfortunatelly not enough for a max but good, beautiful flight

42s - I was very upset for having broken my just trimmed Vartanian by hiting a fence. Looked for some lift, I was scarce and sun which was covered before was now veeery hot so I believe I wanted to end the flying session quickly.

22s - Missed lift by 10m and launched into sink. I was really mad, as wanted to discard the 42s flight....

150s+ - Runnned to retreive the model from the previous flight (not far after 22s...) and found some good air in the way back. Launched and it was a huge thermal. My Miromat is gone but made its job!

This model is excelent as all Tmat models. It is not the best I had in my box for calm (45s in dead air at 2.6g) but it was the  best for active weather.

Let's fly!


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Tmat on January 05, 2017, 10:22:36 AM
I've attached the plan of the MicroMat 6" CLG in case anyone is interested. I designed it back in 2010 but never finished it. Glad to hear that Alex has flown it and that it flies well.

The 2nd photo is a new design that I'm still working on. The wing is an Inverse Zimmerman planform which was shown to be quite efficient for low Re and low Aspect Ratios. Basically it is generated by using two 1/2 ellipses located at the 3/4 chord location. I may look at truncating the tip to add a bit more area towards the tip. We will see. The airfoils shown are what Stan B. Is using these days I hear. The Inverse Zimmerman planform has some interesting possibilities for shaping such a wing. I would start with a full straight trailing edge (all Sweepette) and shape the upper surface taper to give a uniform 0.5 mm (0.020") trailing edge thickness. Then cut away the trailing edge to give the correct shape. This will progressively thicken the trailing edge towards the tip. Then you would sand the lower surface to create washout from zero at the root to max at the tip returning the trailing edge back to 0.020" thickness. Then shape the rest. This will give both the washout towards the tip and a zero camber airfoil at the tip which Stan and Ralph found helpful at the extreme speeds that their indoor high ceiling CLG's could achieve.

Tmat
- next is a Canard!  ;D


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Beazld on January 06, 2017, 11:53:47 AM
Tmat, is the CF boom on you cat tapered?  Where would one source .062 CF tubing?


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: dosco on January 06, 2017, 12:05:19 PM
I've attached the plan of the MicroMat 6" CLG in case anyone is interested. I designed it back in 2010 but never finished it. Glad to hear that Alex has flown it and that it flies well.

The 2nd photo is a new design that I'm still working on. The wing is an Inverse Zimmerman planform which was shown to be quite efficient for low Re and low Aspect Ratios. Basically it is generated by using two 1/2 ellipses located at the 3/4 chord location. I may look at truncating the tip to add a bit more area towards the tip. We will see. The airfoils shown are what Stan B. Is using these days I hear. The Inverse Zimmerman planform has some interesting possibilities for shaping such a wing. I would start with a full straight trailing edge (all Sweepette) and shape the upper surface taper to give a uniform 0.5 mm (0.020") trailing edge thickness. Then cut away the trailing edge to give the correct shape. This will progressively thicken the trailing edge towards the tip. Then you would sand the lower surface to create washout from zero at the root to max at the tip returning the trailing edge back to 0.020" thickness. Then shape the rest. This will give both the washout towards the tip and a zero camber airfoil at the tip which Stan and Ralph found helpful at the extreme speeds that their indoor high ceiling CLG's could achieve.

Tmat
- next is a Canard!  ;D

Tmat:
Would you be interested in posting the Micro Mat plans to the Builder's Plan Gallery?

I'm having a hard time zooming in on the JPEG to read some of the details/fine print.

If not, I understand.

Cheers-
Dave


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: dosco on January 06, 2017, 12:07:35 PM
Tmat, is the CF boom on you cat tapered?  Where would one source .062 CF tubing?

Beazld:
It doesn't look tapered.

One can purchase 0.060" OD CF rod from Midwest Products.

I built a 6" CLG a couple of years ago ... the fuse was a strip of spruce, and wasn't really the right stuff for the job.

I salvaged the wing and tail, and after looking at Tmat's plan, I'm thinking of going to the LHS to pickup some CF rod.

-Dave


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Beazld on January 06, 2017, 02:06:30 PM
Dosco, thanks for the heads up.  I was thinking it was CF tapered tubing.
Dave


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Tmat on January 06, 2017, 02:38:24 PM
Beazld,
It is just a constant diameter tube. You can also use a solid rod of .050" to 0.062" diameter. The weight difference compared to tubing at these sizes is negligible.
To zoom in you click on the small square symbol with the tiny arrow located at the top right corner of the image. It opens a higher resolution image.

I can post the plan sure.
I've attached an updated version here.

Tmat


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: dosco on January 06, 2017, 05:53:02 PM
Beazld,
It is just a constant diameter tube. You can also use a solid rod of .050" to 0.062" diameter. The weight difference compared to tubing at these sizes is negligible.
To zoom in you click on the small square symbol with the tiny arrow located at the top right corner of the image. It opens a higher resolution image.

I can post the plan sure.
I've attached an updated version here.

Tmat

Tmat:
The instructions you provided worked brilliantly with your most recent image, but didn't work particularly well with the 2 images you previously posted.

Anyhow, this most recent image is much clearer - thank you.

Cheers-
Dave



Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Tmat on January 06, 2017, 09:56:50 PM
Dave,
The previous two images were not as large as the last image, so that's why the resolution didn't improve as much.
It's possible to use a balsa boom. If I was to make a balsa boom I'd use some medium 3/32" balsa and I'd add some 0.003" to 0.005" carbon strips top and bottom to stiffen the boom.

The simplest glider would be all balsa. Which would work just fine.

Tmat


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Mefot on January 11, 2017, 09:00:28 AM
I couldn't resist building something for this contest so made this six inches of fun from offcuts. After seeing Tmat's plans I made the boom from 2mm carbon tube sanded down to 1mm diameter. Weight of the tube is 0.5 grammes for it's 9 inch length. Model currently weighs 2.4 grammes with hi-vis paint still to be added. Model glides well onto the bed but with a gale blowing outside and heavy snow forecast I think I will wait a while to try it outside !!!  :D


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Alexandre Cruz on January 11, 2017, 01:07:25 PM
Do you guys mind if I take the pictures and plans from here and post on the blog?


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Tmat on January 11, 2017, 01:44:09 PM
I don't mind Alex.

Tony


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Tmat on January 11, 2017, 01:47:11 PM
I couldn't resist building something for this contest so made this six inches of fun from offcuts. After seeing Tmat's plans I made the boom from 2mm carbon tube sanded down to 1mm diameter. Weight of the tube is 0.5 grammes for it's 9 inch length. Model currently weighs 2.4 grammes with hi-vis paint still to be added. Model glides well onto the bed but with a gale blowing outside and heavy snow forecast I think I will wait a while to try it outside !!!  :D

Looks great! Yes, I'd stay away from gale force winds with these itty bitty birds!  ;D

Tmat


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Mefot on January 11, 2017, 01:55:09 PM
Please post them Alex. If it encourages other people to have a go it will be worth the effort.

Thanks for that Tmat. They do disappear quite easily !!!  ::)


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Tmat on January 11, 2017, 02:11:33 PM
Some more 6" and 8" CLG birds for your inspiration.
First is Bruce Hannah's excellent 8" CLG "Lawn Dartie". Note it is all wood!
2nd is an 8" glider of mine with a simple Silly Putty based DT timer and drag flap. Very effective to bring the suckers down!
And last is another 6" glider of mine from a few years ago.

About Silly Putty timers for these little birds, I created a build log here: https://picasaweb.google.com/105619038517716117641/MicroTubeDTTimer
Everything is there on how to make a simple DT timer.

Get building!

Tmat


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Alexandre Cruz on January 13, 2017, 07:43:38 PM
The blog was updated with MicroMat design.

http://tinygliders.blogspot.com.br/

Mefot, did you had the chance to fly? If so can you share some flying pictures? I know it is veeery hard to get them with a 6in wingspan glider.


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Mefot on January 14, 2017, 09:05:14 AM
No chance to fly it yet Alex. Weather conditions have been very poor recently. I will try and get some flying shots or video when things improve  :)


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Skymon on June 27, 2017, 05:07:47 AM
Any results in so far?


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: FLYACE1946 on July 23, 2017, 03:51:18 PM
I just found this and am so late for this year. Maybe we can do it later or just wait for next year. Did anyone register times before the deadline? Sure like seeing these little field types. Just keep doing what works for you. I know the event is a lot of fun. Maybe I can join in next time.

So Sorry for my tardiness.


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Maxout on November 28, 2017, 10:12:37 AM
Are we going to do another one of these soon? I've got planes, Hope has planes, even Caleb. So let's do some flying!


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Skymon on November 28, 2017, 10:30:22 AM
I'm up for it - 6" and 8" HLG and CLG??
Maybe plan for the Spring??

S


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: FLYACE1946 on November 28, 2017, 01:57:26 PM
Do we have another Tiny Gliders Postal Contest and if we do when do we start flying? Lets jump on this soon!


Title: Re: 2017 Tiny Gliders Postal Contest
Post by: Knightflyer on September 06, 2019, 12:41:09 PM
Hope you do another one of these!

Does the wing have to be solid balsa? Could it be a biplane? just how silly creative can you be with your design?